Chinese virus
- Thread starter Chris Ashdown
- Start date
D
Deleted member 59730
The virus reached Italy from Germany. The virus reached UK from Italy.
Quite why so many schoolkids went skiing in Italy on school trips. What is educational or cultural about skiing?
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Currently the most proactive in Europe.
Locking down towns and all of Lombardy. Have been screening airport passengers leaving and arriving, closing schools, offices . . . . . . .
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There will not have been just one point of entry. Many Italians are in China on business. Many in the motor industry (Wuhan is a major manufacturer of auto parts). Additionally 9 Italians have returned to China in the past 2 days and have been confirmed to have the virus. They have been quarantined.
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Presumably they are being the most pro active because they have the biggest outbreak.
If they had done this on day 1, I imagine the numbers would be much lower, but I appreciate doing it on day one could have been seen as a little drastic.
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Decisions have to be made at some point. They made the decision based on not only what happened in Italy, but also the track record of other countries infected with the virus.
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Hence the decision to try to contain it and stop it spreading at a higher rate.
Stop being Mr D!
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T
The Byre
Report today from Italy - a taste of what is to come in the UK.
Sunday, the Italian government announced new measures to combat the spread of the coronavirus.
Public facilities such as museums and swimming pools remain closed. Schools will not open again until early April.
The Vatican decided to hold the Pope's Sunday Angelus prayer via live stream and St. Peter's Square remains closed.
Italy has sealed off its north, the heart of its economy. All of Lombardy, as well as fourteen provinces of Veneto, Emilia Romagna, Piedmont and the Marches, are now part of a security zone that can only be entered and exited by anyone who has "undelayable" motives. It says in a new government decree that the Italians are trying to curb the spread of the coronavirus. 16 million people are affected.
After a long crisis session by his cabinet, Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte told the media on Sunday night that it was not a "total blockade". Trains and flights will continue to run. "These are very rigorous measures."
This also includes the closure of all museums, theaters, cinemas, fitness centers, cultural institutes, swimming pools and ski resorts. The schools, which were originally supposed to remain closed until mid-March, will reopen in the security zone at the earliest in early April. In addition to Lombardy, the following provinces are specifically named: Venice, Treviso, Padua, Modena, Parma, Piacenza, Reggio Emilia, Rimini, Pesaro, Urbino, Asti, Novara, Alessandria, Verbano Cusio Ossola and Vercelli.
Weddings, funerals and religious processions are prohibited. Shopping centers in these areas may only be open from Monday to Friday in the coming weeks. Bars and restaurants can continue, provided that their premises are so large that customers can keep at least one meter apart. The police can immediately close a restaurant that does not comply with the regulations. And they are allowed to stop people who are in the car and ask why they are on the road - even if they are within the security zone. All of Italy is also prohibited from opening pubs, discotheques and casinos, until April 3 for the time being.
He was aware of the scope of the decree, said Conte, the measures were unprecedented: "I take full political responsibility for this."
The presidents of the regions of Lombardy and Emilia Romagna, Attilio Fontana from the right Lega and Stefano Bonaccini from the Social Democrats, were initially irritated by the package. It creates confusion, they said. "Nobody knows what they are supposed to do now."
Part of the confusion stems from the fact that leaked drafts of the decree went through the internet in the hours before Conte's announcement. As a result, dozens of southern Italians living in Milan headed to Stazione Centrale, the main train station, to quickly get to their home town before everything was blocked. Many didn't even have a ticket. Conte now assured that family reunifications in emergencies would still be possible.
The government considers it necessary to tighten its measures because the number of infections has increased far faster than expected in recent days - the peak does not yet appear to have been reached. The health system in the north is increasingly reaching its limits, especially in those hospitals that treat infected people in the intensive care unit. Conte announced that it had hired 20,000 doctors and nurses from other regions of the country and from private clinics to alleviate the stressful situation. Humanitarian organizations such as MSF offered their help.
5883 cases of infection are currently known in Italy, most of them in Lombardy. Since the outbreak of the epidemic, 233 people have died from or with the virus. Angelo Borrelli, the head of national civil protection and special commissioner in the crisis, said at the weekend that the average age of the deceased was 81. Men between 80 and 100 are the most vulnerable population group. Only two percent of the victims had been healthy before the infection, said Borrelli. Everyone else was already seriously ill when they became infected, and the majority suffered from heart and lung problems.
Borrelli insisted that Italians adhere to a "pact of responsibility". It was time that the superficial handling of the risk, finally stopped. For example, that an elderly couple from Codogno, the likely source of the virus in Italy, disregarded the decision to block the "Zona rossa" there and went skiing in Trentino. Both are infected with the pathogen and are now being treated in Trento.
Only football should go on - at least for now and without spectators. The Milan newspaper "Corriere della Sera" writes that this is the right thing to do because footballers want to give Italians a little bit of joy in these unpleasant times.
The player union president, former professional Damiano Tommasi, called for an immediate end to the Series A championships, Italy's top league. Others think that a month's break is enough. Minister of Sport Vincenzo Spadafora believes that the schedule should be maintained, the games should simply take place in closed stadiums. He demanded that the pay-TV stations make the games free to everyone, which does not sound likely! The head of the association, in turn, believes that the championship games can continue until a player is tested positive for the coronavirus.
Nicola Zingaretti, the chairman of the co-governing Partito Democratico and governor of the Lazio region, was also infected. He reported on Facebook from his home that he was fine and was fighting the disease. Since Zingaretti has been in contact with many people in the recently, other politicians and ministers are now also in self-quarantine.
The Vatican decided that the Pope's Sunday Angelus prayer would initially be streamed out of the library at the Apostolic Palace. Francis will therefore no longer show up at the window for a while, St. Peter's Square will be closed.
_______________________________________________________________
P.S. My 30 cents worth - the economic effects may prove more deadly than the virus itself, but then poorer people dying younger in the months and years to come is not a statistic that gets collected!
Sunday, the Italian government announced new measures to combat the spread of the coronavirus.
Public facilities such as museums and swimming pools remain closed. Schools will not open again until early April.
The Vatican decided to hold the Pope's Sunday Angelus prayer via live stream and St. Peter's Square remains closed.
Italy has sealed off its north, the heart of its economy. All of Lombardy, as well as fourteen provinces of Veneto, Emilia Romagna, Piedmont and the Marches, are now part of a security zone that can only be entered and exited by anyone who has "undelayable" motives. It says in a new government decree that the Italians are trying to curb the spread of the coronavirus. 16 million people are affected.
After a long crisis session by his cabinet, Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte told the media on Sunday night that it was not a "total blockade". Trains and flights will continue to run. "These are very rigorous measures."
This also includes the closure of all museums, theaters, cinemas, fitness centers, cultural institutes, swimming pools and ski resorts. The schools, which were originally supposed to remain closed until mid-March, will reopen in the security zone at the earliest in early April. In addition to Lombardy, the following provinces are specifically named: Venice, Treviso, Padua, Modena, Parma, Piacenza, Reggio Emilia, Rimini, Pesaro, Urbino, Asti, Novara, Alessandria, Verbano Cusio Ossola and Vercelli.
Weddings, funerals and religious processions are prohibited. Shopping centers in these areas may only be open from Monday to Friday in the coming weeks. Bars and restaurants can continue, provided that their premises are so large that customers can keep at least one meter apart. The police can immediately close a restaurant that does not comply with the regulations. And they are allowed to stop people who are in the car and ask why they are on the road - even if they are within the security zone. All of Italy is also prohibited from opening pubs, discotheques and casinos, until April 3 for the time being.
He was aware of the scope of the decree, said Conte, the measures were unprecedented: "I take full political responsibility for this."
The presidents of the regions of Lombardy and Emilia Romagna, Attilio Fontana from the right Lega and Stefano Bonaccini from the Social Democrats, were initially irritated by the package. It creates confusion, they said. "Nobody knows what they are supposed to do now."
Part of the confusion stems from the fact that leaked drafts of the decree went through the internet in the hours before Conte's announcement. As a result, dozens of southern Italians living in Milan headed to Stazione Centrale, the main train station, to quickly get to their home town before everything was blocked. Many didn't even have a ticket. Conte now assured that family reunifications in emergencies would still be possible.
The government considers it necessary to tighten its measures because the number of infections has increased far faster than expected in recent days - the peak does not yet appear to have been reached. The health system in the north is increasingly reaching its limits, especially in those hospitals that treat infected people in the intensive care unit. Conte announced that it had hired 20,000 doctors and nurses from other regions of the country and from private clinics to alleviate the stressful situation. Humanitarian organizations such as MSF offered their help.
5883 cases of infection are currently known in Italy, most of them in Lombardy. Since the outbreak of the epidemic, 233 people have died from or with the virus. Angelo Borrelli, the head of national civil protection and special commissioner in the crisis, said at the weekend that the average age of the deceased was 81. Men between 80 and 100 are the most vulnerable population group. Only two percent of the victims had been healthy before the infection, said Borrelli. Everyone else was already seriously ill when they became infected, and the majority suffered from heart and lung problems.
Borrelli insisted that Italians adhere to a "pact of responsibility". It was time that the superficial handling of the risk, finally stopped. For example, that an elderly couple from Codogno, the likely source of the virus in Italy, disregarded the decision to block the "Zona rossa" there and went skiing in Trentino. Both are infected with the pathogen and are now being treated in Trento.
Only football should go on - at least for now and without spectators. The Milan newspaper "Corriere della Sera" writes that this is the right thing to do because footballers want to give Italians a little bit of joy in these unpleasant times.
The player union president, former professional Damiano Tommasi, called for an immediate end to the Series A championships, Italy's top league. Others think that a month's break is enough. Minister of Sport Vincenzo Spadafora believes that the schedule should be maintained, the games should simply take place in closed stadiums. He demanded that the pay-TV stations make the games free to everyone, which does not sound likely! The head of the association, in turn, believes that the championship games can continue until a player is tested positive for the coronavirus.
Nicola Zingaretti, the chairman of the co-governing Partito Democratico and governor of the Lazio region, was also infected. He reported on Facebook from his home that he was fine and was fighting the disease. Since Zingaretti has been in contact with many people in the recently, other politicians and ministers are now also in self-quarantine.
The Vatican decided that the Pope's Sunday Angelus prayer would initially be streamed out of the library at the Apostolic Palace. Francis will therefore no longer show up at the window for a while, St. Peter's Square will be closed.
_______________________________________________________________
P.S. My 30 cents worth - the economic effects may prove more deadly than the virus itself, but then poorer people dying younger in the months and years to come is not a statistic that gets collected!
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Milan also included in the quarantine area. Free roaming within the quarantine area will be allowed.
The timing has yet to be determined, could happen at some point today and this will depend on the military arriving to help enforce it.
Currently trains are still leaving Milan station for other cities within Italy as well as outside of Italy, but unsure of the response of authorities when they arrive at their destination (outside of Italy).
Italians will be the barometer of how the west will react to a 'limited' lockdown of a whole city.
We all wait . . . . . . .
The timing has yet to be determined, could happen at some point today and this will depend on the military arriving to help enforce it.
Currently trains are still leaving Milan station for other cities within Italy as well as outside of Italy, but unsure of the response of authorities when they arrive at their destination (outside of Italy).
Italians will be the barometer of how the west will react to a 'limited' lockdown of a whole city.
We all wait . . . . . . .
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Hence the decision to try to contain it and stop it spreading at a higher rate.
Stop being Mr D!
Oh they will do that all right, slowing the spread across artificial borders. While containing it within those borders.
Just saying it would have helped if they had done it sooner.
An example already in China's actions. But not seen as a threat???
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Darn, all those people who collect statistics about poorer people who die will suddenly be out of work.
Whatever will they do?
Funnily enough just applied for a job a few minutes ago, 100% working from home. Could cope with my village being restricted for 3 weeks.
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Ive just been shopping - not panic buying (I only spent about £25) - and it was busy, but only slightly busier than normal. To be honest, I was in and out in about 20 minutes, so it is not like there were massive queues.
Plenty of paracetamol, pasta, toilet rolls(!) etc. The only thing that has sold out is the hand steriliser stuff. There really does not appear to be a shortage of food at the minute. But were northerners, were not like those southern lot who worry at the thought of no avocados for a week
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Ive just been shopping - not panic buying (I only spent about £25) - and it was busy, but only slightly busier than normal. To be honest, I was in and out in about 20 minutes, so it is not like there were massive queues.
Plenty of paracetamol, pasta, toilet rolls(!) etc. The only thing that has sold out is the hand steriliser stuff. There really does not appear to be a shortage of food at the minute. But were northerners, were not like those southern lot who worry at the thought of no avocados for a week
I hear some of the southerners use hand sanitiser without alcohol. Some sort of useless stuff?
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Italy’s primary problem is the very elderly age group in the North. This has caused a large number of deaths, many Italian families live and socialise together, which has probably helped the spread of the virus.
Whatever any Gov does now is purely to slow down infections to try and help the health professionals out. It is in Europe, and out of control.
Never washed my hands so much, in the UK many schools and NHS facilities are yet to receive any real guidance on the virus, apart from is already in the public domain.
Whatever any Gov does now is purely to slow down infections to try and help the health professionals out. It is in Europe, and out of control.
Never washed my hands so much, in the UK many schools and NHS facilities are yet to receive any real guidance on the virus, apart from is already in the public domain.
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It makes them feel safe. Most people have a false sense of security using anti bacterial stuff, not realising it is useless for this.
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Quarantine hasn't taken affect yet, which is why trains and planes are still running to other areas of Italy as well as abroad. Italians still skiing in Piedmont.
When quarantine takes affect, travel into or out of Lombardy will not be allowed.. People within Lombardy are free to travel within Lombardy. No other people in or out.
I think the government is expecting anarchy and are waiting for the military to arrive first in order to 'supervise' the quarantine.
That's how I understand the situation.
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We’ve just had the third case of CV-19 announced in our county.
The latest one is a Cheltenham resident. There is a lot of chatter as to whether the event should be going ahead. In theory around 250,000 people will descend on the town over the 4 days and many will be staying in accommodation in other local towns (our towns restaurants, pubs and hoteliers always do well as we are a short drive away).
What are other people’s thoughts on this?
It would have a big (negative) impact on Cheltenham businesses if it’s cancelled, but this is the first major event in the UK since the disease took hold and has the potential to spread it quite quickly.
The latest one is a Cheltenham resident. There is a lot of chatter as to whether the event should be going ahead. In theory around 250,000 people will descend on the town over the 4 days and many will be staying in accommodation in other local towns (our towns restaurants, pubs and hoteliers always do well as we are a short drive away).
What are other people’s thoughts on this?
It would have a big (negative) impact on Cheltenham businesses if it’s cancelled, but this is the first major event in the UK since the disease took hold and has the potential to spread it quite quickly.
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D
Deleted member 59730
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I would say the festival probably should be cancelled, but of course it won’t be. Too much money to be earned for too many people
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Not as far as I’m concerned no. But there are many who will look at the gambling company’s revenue, the local businesses that rely on the festival trade, and forget about the risk to life.
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Tricky one though isnt it, you will have businesses teetering on the edge and/or employees on 0 hour contracts.
As much as I am for isolating everyone and closing the borders to everything but lorry drivers with food, that is purely for selfish reasons. There are people who would potentially never recover from the ramifications of that.
Tricky one.
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Very tricky. I was thinking about it today how we could contain it before it goes wild.
Could we have an enforced 2 week shutdown where everyone has to stay home, all businesses shut down, landlords are told to defer rent, business rate holiday...? Seems like if we don’t do something before it goes mad, we will end up having a longer shut down that we can’t plan for.
Could we have an enforced 2 week shutdown where everyone has to stay home, all businesses shut down, landlords are told to defer rent, business rate holiday...? Seems like if we don’t do something before it goes mad, we will end up having a longer shut down that we can’t plan for.
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But then how do landlords pay the mortgage if there is one or if they are reliant on the income, how do they pay their bills?
I think Italy have done it the right way in not enforcing isolation but locking down areas, so people can still go out and spend, work etc. Let it runs its course in each area, once it has started to clear up, you can then start to open up different areas. If there is still an outbreak in certain areas you can keep them closed down a little longer.
I dont really know, I am sure there are far smarter people than me who all have their own ways, but just carrying with the view of lets delay the inevitable just seems like not a very good idea.
I think Italy have done it the right way in not enforcing isolation but locking down areas, so people can still go out and spend, work etc. Let it runs its course in each area, once it has started to clear up, you can then start to open up different areas. If there is still an outbreak in certain areas you can keep them closed down a little longer.
I dont really know, I am sure there are far smarter people than me who all have their own ways, but just carrying with the view of lets delay the inevitable just seems like not a very good idea.
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