Bye bye Boris?

[Employment Law Clinic]

Starmer is under investigation, full stop.

Are there degrees of investigations?

You’re an armchair judge and move the goal posts to suit your argument.

Johnson was put under investigation after telling parliament there were no parties in No 10. I believe that the alleged deceit (something Johnson has been responsible for previously in his career), misleading parliament, is the reason why it was suggested Johnson should resign. Later perhaps, it was after being issued with a FPN, but I don't think there was a call for a resignation solely on the basis of a police investigation.


I may be wrong, but I believe the allegation to justify the resignation call was due to misleading parliament about there being no parties in Downing Street, not simply being under police investigation. (Others, even from the Conservative party, did feel a police investigation was enough to warrant a resignation, but I don't think Starmer put it in those terms.)


Karl Limpert

 

[MOIC]

Johnson was put under investigation after telling parliament there were no parties in No 10. I believe that the alleged deceit (something Johnson has been responsible for previously in his career), misleading parliament, is the reason why it was suggested Johnson should resign. Later perhaps, it was after being issued with a FPN, but I don't think there was a call for a resignation solely on the basis of a police investigation.


I may be wrong, but I believe the allegation to justify the resignation call was due to misleading parliament about there being no parties in Downing Street, not simply being under police investigation. (Others, even from the Conservative party, did feel a police investigation was enough to warrant a resignation, but I don't think Starmer put it in those terms.)


Karl Limpert

Karmer’s statement was directly related to Boris being investigated. He stated this in January, before a FPN was given.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Starmer said that Boris should resign when he was under investigation (he was not found guilty or fined at that time). Starmer is now under investigation.

Same same, but different?

Very different, as Starmer didn't say he should resign because he was under investigation. He said he should resign as he broke the ministerial code, misled parliament.


Karl Limpert

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Karmer’s statement was directly related to Boris being investigated. He stated this in January, before a FPN was given.

Yes, because he broke the ministerial code: he stated to parliament there were no parties.

The ministerial code says that misleading parliament is a resignation matter.


Karl Limpert

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Karmer’s statement was directly related to Boris being investigated. He stated this in January, before a FPN was given.

The ministerial code says that:

“Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation”.

Does the Prime Minister believe that applies to him?

I think the Prime Minister said yes, he agrees that the code does apply to him. Therefore, if he misled Parliament, he must resign.

The suggestion to resign was not because Johnson was under investigation, but because he was accused of having misled the House.


Karl Limpert

 

[MOIC]

Very different, as Starmer didn't say he should resign because he was under investigation. He said he should resign as he broke the ministerial code, misled parliament.


Karl Limpert

No, it was directly related to Boris being under investigation.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

No, it was directly related to Boris being under investigation.

Where or when did Starmer say that? I've quoted Starmer from Hansard, the official record of parliament. He accused Johnson of breaking the ministerial code, as he had misled the house, and observed that is a resigning matter.



Karl Limpert

 

[MOIC]

Where or when did Starmer say that? I've quoted Starmer from Hansard, the official record of parliament. He accused Johnson of breaking the ministerial code, as he had misled the house, and observed that is a resigning matter.



Karl Limpert

Sir Keir Starmer under pressure to resign after police confirm ‘beergate’ investigation

Labour leader drank beer and shared a curry with colleagues at indoor gathering during local election campaign last April

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

No, it was directly related to Boris being under investigation.

Quoting the Telegraph to acknowledge Starmer is under investigation doesn't really explain where or when Starmer directly called for Johnson's resignation due to being under investigation. The call for a resignation was made in parliament, on 26th January, on the basis Johnson had misled the house, and that call for a resignation has been repeated many times since. It was not directly related to Johnson being under investigation, or can you qualify your statement at all?


Karl Limpert

 

[MOIC]

Quoting the Telegraph to acknowledge Starmer is under investigation doesn't really explain where or when Starmer directly called for Johnson's resignation due to being under investigation. The call for a resignation was made in parliament, on 26th January, on the basis Johnson had misled the house, and that call for a resignation has been repeated many times since. It was not directly related to Johnson being under investigation, or can you qualify your statement at all?


Karl Limpert

The Independent . . . . .

– January 31

Sir Keir tweeted: “Honesty and decency matter.

“After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws.

“He needs to do the decent thing and resign”.

The former director of public prosecutions also said “there can be no doubt the Prime Minister himself is now subject to criminal investigation” but “he gleefully treats what should be a mark of shame as a welcome shield”.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

The Independent . . . . .

– January 31

Sir Keir tweeted: “Honesty and decency matter.

“After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws.

“He needs to do the decent thing and resign”.

The former director of public prosecutions also said “there can be no doubt the Prime Minister himself is now subject to criminal investigation” but “he gleefully treats what should be a mark of shame as a welcome shield”.

Yes, after he's already justified the reason for calling for a resignation: “Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation”, and "Therefore, if he misled Parliament, he must resign.".

He's attributed the calls for a resignation to misleading the house, and repeated that call afterwards. Yet somehow you say that a repeat of that call for a resignation 5 days later had nothing to do with misleading the house, but was actually due to Johnson being under investigation?

Come on, MOIC, you're scraping the barrel now. The chronology shows exactly when the call for a resignation was made, and the basis for making it. It was not because Johnson was under investigation.


Karl Limpert

 

[MOIC]

Yes, after he's already justified the reason for calling for a resignation: “Ministers who knowingly mislead Parliament will be expected to offer their resignation”, and "Therefore, if he misled Parliament, he must resign.".

He's attributed the calls for a resignation to misleading the house, and repeated that call afterwards. Yet somehow you say that a repeat of that call for a resignation 5 days later had nothing to do with misleading the house, but was actually due to Johnson being under investigation?

Come on, MOIC, you're scraping the barrel now. The chronology shows exactly when the call for a resignation was made, and the basis for making it. It was not because Johnson was under investigation.


Karl Limpert

I like your tenacity!

We can all use a quote to justify a narrative, one way or the other.

25 January – After the Metropolitan Police announced an investigation into the Downing Street parties, Starmer claimed that it was grounds for the Prime Minister's removal for office. He suggested that the mere announcement of the Met probe alone – even though it had not yet found any wrongdoing – was enough for members of the Cabinet to demand Johnson's departure:

The same day, Angela Rayner tweets 'Boris Johnson's Downing Street is under police investigation, how on earth can he think he can stay on as Prime Minister?'

31 January – Sir Keir Starmer argues that being under investigation alone is grounds for Boris Johnson's resignation. He tweets: 'Honesty and decency matter. After months of denials the Prime Minister is now under criminal investigations for breaking his own lockdown laws. He needs to do the decent thing and resign.'

Generally, I think most people can understand what Starmer was saying. . . . . . .

Investigation = Resignation

 

[simon field]

All the pedantic nit-picking aside, isn’t it more than a tad worrying that none of these people appeared to know what they were doing at the specified times?

 

[MBE2017]

All the pedantic nit-picking aside, isn’t it more than a tad worrying that none of these people appeared to know what they were doing at the specified times?

Agreed, more importantly the shocking level of moral bankruptcy shown by all politicians from all parties, to those that dreamt up the rules as well. Animal Farm is a complete reality, best advice I can give, if these people’s lips move, then they are lying.

This is the main reason I do not vote anymore, once you accept they are all liars, what is the point? Only a true revolution will change things, but then it will start all over again.

 

[japancool]

All the pedantic nit-picking aside, isn’t it more than a tad worrying that none of these people appeared to know what they were doing at the specified times?

Well, you can't expect people to remember all the times they had a beer and a curry.

 

[simon field]

Well, you can't expect people to remember all the times they had a beer and a curry.

No, especially when there’s a global pandemic on and draconian measures in place aimed at preventing exactly that, eh?

 

[japancool]

No, especially when there’s a global pandemic on and draconian measures in place aimed at preventing exactly that, eh?

I believe neither beer nor curry were illegal during the pandemic.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Yes well, she left school at 16, unqualified and pregnant.

Not the calibur of person I want running the country.

Best if you don't have a look at the elections in Northern Ireland then.


Karl Limpert

 

[simon field]

I believe neither beer nor curry were illegal during the pandemic.

Solid belief there.

No idea why the rozzers are involved then, maybe there’s more to it?

 

[japancool]

Solid belief there.

No idea why the rozzers are involved then, maybe there’s more to it?

They say they have received "significant new information".

 

[Mr D]

I don't know if anyone else is watching the debate on referrring Johnson to the Huse Committee?

The tory party appears to have abandoned him. There are very few Conservative party memebers present. If a vote is taken the opposition will win.

No one has yet spoken in his defence.

Looks like he is on his way.

Indeed.
So who should replace him?

Gove? Anderson? Patel?

 

[MBE2017]

Rumours are rife that Starmer has been issued with a fine. Labour are neither confirming or denying the story, their normal way of playing for time.

So we might be seeing Labour pushed into a leadership election, since according to the BBC website “Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has said he will quit if given a fine by Durham police for breaking lockdown rules.”

Interesting times.

 

[The Byre]

"Pincher by name, pincher by nature!" laughed Boris, making it perfectly clear that he was fully aware of the stories circulating about the Right Honourable Member for Tamworth. That was just BEFORE he appointed Pincher to the Whip's office and is a remark reported by several witnesses.

Now his absurd claim about 40 new hospitals is being investigated by The National Audit Office. NHS trusts reported to the BBC that five were building a whole new hospital. Twelve said they were building new wings and nine said they were renovating existing buildings. The Infrastructure and Projects Authority (IPA) gave the overall project an amber/red ranking, meaning its delivery "is in doubt with major risks or issues apparent in a number of key areas".

Let's face it - what with Pincher, Partygate and Brexit, the wheels are coming off the Boris-Bus. He is looking haplessly and hopelessly on as the levers of power flap wildly out of control. He spends his days at the back of the bus, facing the wrong way and wondering where the steering wheel went.

His hapless band of pilgrims on the front bench are happily stoking the fires of inflation with their continued policy of borrow-and-spend - to the point where UK PLC cannot arithmetically even hope to repay all those government bonds. The interest rates alone are becoming an almost unbearable burden on public finances.

Economics Professor Steve Hanke (Johns Hopkins University, Baltimore) said last week in an interview "Creating currency combined with record borrowing has made US public finances bad, really bad and if we look at the Eurozone, they are far worse. But if we look at the United Kindom, they are worse still!"

One of last week's 'Matt' cartoons had a crash test dummy turning up at the Treasury, saying "I'm here to test your latest model of the UK economy."

 

[japancool]

Somehow, I am reminded of this (sorry, couldn't find it on Youtube):

Dailymotion

www.dailymotion.com

 

[Excel-Expert]

Rumours are rife that Starmer has been issued with a fine. Labour are neither confirming or denying the story, their normal way of playing for time.

So we might be seeing Labour pushed into a leadership election, since according to the BBC website “Labour leader Sir Keir Starmer has said he will quit if given a fine by Durham police for breaking lockdown rules.”

Interesting times.

This would probably be the best thing for the country as a whole. Starmer has zero fight, zero policies and is trying to get by, by just being the "The non-Tory" party and not rocking the boat. Hopefully, Labour will get a better leader that can hold Boris's feet to the fire and give the Tories something to worry about.

At the moment the Tory party can get away with anything they like as there is no one to call them up on things.

 

[Karimbo]

nobody wants to be PM during this time i think he will stay put as long as keir starmer is the opposition. the post was filled with a character like andy burnham or mike lynch, the tories would have been a bit more desperate to ditch boris and out someone else with credibility and respect.

they really milked partygate until photos leaked of him having a pie and drink at a pub and now they're not mentioning a thing about partygate. what a joke.

 

[Newchodge]

nobody wants to be PM during this time i think he will stay put as long as keir starmer is the opposition. the post was filled with a character like andy burnham or mike lynch, the tories would have been a bit more desperate to ditch boris and out someone else with credibility and respect.

they really milked partygate until photos leaked of him having a pie and drink at a pub and now they're not mentioning a thing about partygate. what a joke.

The pubs were all closed. He had a curry and a bottle during a working event in Labour party offices.

 

[simon field]

Please don’t make excuses for Sir Beer Korma! You know they’re all as bad as each other right?

 

[japancool]

The pubs were all closed. He had a curry and a bottle during a working event in Labour party offices.

And Boris had a bit of cake at work. One rule for one and one rule for the other, eh, Cyndy?

 

[Newchodge]

And Boris had a bit of cake at work. One rule for one and one rule for the other, eh, Cyndy?

I am merely corrcting the facutal inaccuracy.

photos leaked of him having a pie and drink at a pub

is factually incorrect. I have made no comment here on the illegality of it, or whether it is better or worse than what ws happening in Downing Street.

 

[japancool]

I am merely corrcting the facutal inaccuracy.

IF the police have indeed issued him with a fine, then it may be that they disagree with your interpretation.

is factually incorrect. I have made no comment here on the illegality of it, or whether it is better or worse than what ws happening in Downing Street.

Please don't. I would like to think that neither you or I are idiots, and we both know what you intended to imply.

 

[Newchodge]

IF the police have indeed issued him with a fine, then it may be that they disagree with your interpretation.

Even the police know he was not drinking in a pub.

 

[Newchodge]

Please don’t make excuses for Sir Beer Korma! You know they’re all as bad as each other right?

What excuses have I made?

 

[japancool]

Even the police know he was not drinking in a pub.

They may not consider that he was at a "working event".

 

[Newchodge]

Please don't. I would like to think that neither you or I are idiots, and we both know what you intended to imply.

You have proved yourself the idiot by objecting to a view I have not expressed (and do not hold) and then complaining aboiut it.

 

[simon field]

Look, we all know that the world and his brother bent or broke the ridiculous ‘rules’ introduced by a panicked Boris Johnson, but the big difference is, we don’t hold ourselves up & pretend to be able to lead a whole country, do we.

 

[japancool]

You have proved yourself the idiot by objecting to a view I have not expressed (and do not hold) and then complaining aboiut it.

Oh please. Feigned indignation doesn't become you.

 

[The Byre]

So now we know that Johnson lied about Pincher rumours and that he was formally briefed about Pincher's behavior. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62047757

I do hope that this absurd circus continues - I am rather enjoying it! But it does support Cameron's description of Johnson as a greased pig.

What a choice democracy has thrown up - on one side a greased pig, on the other side, a vacuum. And behind them both, the braying of so many fools.

“Foolery, sir, does walk about the orb like the sun, it shines everywhere” (Feste in Twelfth Night)

 

[simon field]

So now we know that Johnson lied about Pincher rumours and that he was formally briefed about Pincher's behavior. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-62047757

I do hope that this absurd circus continues - I am rather enjoying it! But it does support Cameron's description of Johnson as a greased pig.

What a choice democracy has thrown up - on one side a greased pig, on the other side, a vacuum. And behind them both, the braying of so many fools.

“Foolery, sir, does walk about the orb like the sun, it shines everywhere” (Feste in Twelfth Night)

Listening to that slimy weasel of a deputy PM trying his best to defend the blancmangey one on R4 this morning was cringeworthy!

 

[Newchodge]

So now we know that Johnson lied about Pincher rumours and that he was formally briefed about Pincher's behavior

Some of us knew he was lying as soon as he spoke. His lips were moving.