Buying a pub that has a1/a3 use class?

[nik82]

6 months ago we looking for pub businesses for sale

We found a small run down pub that we want to take over and transform

After agreeing a price we started the sales process.

Yesterday my solicitor informed me that according the the current sellers lease the building I am about to Sign a 20year lease on does not have usage as a drinking establishment

It has a1 and a3 use

A3 as I understand means can be used for serving food and drink (restaurant)

However for the past 20years it’s been used as a proper pub

And the landlord has never had any issues with local council or police.

Having spoken to the seller. As far as he is concerned he’s been there for 20 years and has an alcohol license so it’s fine.


Does anyone have any advice on what to do here?

I don’t want to walk away from this as I can see massive potential. However I can’t risk having issues with the council after signing a 20 year lease?

Are other pubs ever used under a3?

Will changing the use to a4 be easy as that’s how it’s been used for 20 years.

Also the current pub has a kitchen but sell zero food. Only alcohol.

 

[ethical PR]

You need to speak to the planning department at your local council. Your solicitor is right you shouldn't buy this place without the right planning permission being in place.

The police aren't going to care about planning issues

And the council's licensing team aren't going to care about planning.

I am not sure what planning you need to serve food and drink - have you looked on the council's website?

I know you mentioned in another post being conned in business. Please don't let this happen to you again.

It's incredibly difficult to make money from pubs nowadays unless you have a strong food offer. Even then you need to have a good location for your target audience, the right furnishings for your market and for the venue to be well marketed.

How much experience do you have of managing a pub and food operation?

 

[nik82]

Currently the pub is not serving food
Although it has an a3 licence which is what restaurants and cafes require

I will be serving food however I will still need an a4 license for it being a drinking establishment

What I don’t get is how the pub has operated without issue for 20 years.

Does anyone know of other pubs being operated with an a3 license only?

 

[Noah]

It's incredibly difficult to make money from pubs nowadays

Not true, and particularly not true for freehouses; admittedly a standard pubco lease with tied drinks is more difficult, on account of pubco's generally being robbing incompetent bastards, but still not "incredibly difficult".

 

[nik82]

Haha

I agree with both statements

1. It’s incredibly hard to make real money with pubs (but no harder then it is to make real money with any other business)

Plus if you look at the people running the failing pubs then you can normally see problem

2. It’s a lot easier to make a profit when you free house.

Any help or info with this licence issue would be appreciated?

 

[billmccallum1957]

The existing licence should be A4. Speak to the council.

 

[ethical PR]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ragic-demise-of-the-British-pub-industry.html

 

[GTL]

Speak to a lawyer in commercial planning law before speaking to the council.

 

[Mr D]

The successful pubs - they provide what people want when they want it?

 

[Mark T Jones]

The successful pubs - they provide what people want when they want it?

Successful pubs have a clear formula - often quite a simplistic one.

By anD large, unsuccessful pubs offer what they like and hope the customers will come. Somewhat over simplistic, but a clear starting point for consideration

There’s currently a lot of vC money going independent pub chains, which tells you something

 

[Noah]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...ragic-demise-of-the-British-pub-industry.html

That opinion seems to have missed that at least one of its statistics actually confirms the negative impact of pubco's : "between December 2005 and March 2013, net closures represented 16.5pc of the PubCo sector and 14.6pc of the independent sector."

So the pubco's should be saying to their prospective vict.... leaseholders : "Come play with us - you're statistically more likely to fail with our help than going it alone!"