Brexit negotiations

[Paul Norman]

The fishing industry were staunch advocates of Brexit.

I would hope that they had plans in place as to what would happen if it negatively impacted their business. As so many people have said, there are gains and losses.

Hearing the fishing industry complaining that they have turned out, predictably, to be one of the losses is getting a bit dull. Like the rest of us, they need to, and I quote 'suck it up and get over it', and adjust their business model to the new world.

 

[japancool]

I'm confused. If a fishing boat can land its catch in Denmark, why can't the same fish caught by the same boat in the same waters be landed in the UK and exported?

 

[Ally Maxwell]

I'm confused. If a fishing boat can land its catch in Denmark, why can't the same fish caught by the same boat in the same waters be landed in the UK and exported?

It can, but the export rules must then be followed. Denmark is part of EFTA. The UK is not.

 

[Mr D]

I'm confused. If a fishing boat can land its catch in Denmark, why can't the same fish caught by the same boat in the same waters be landed in the UK and exported?

They can.
Just adds more paperwork and time and cost - and two day old fish arriving with customers is not that bad.... Unless they want fresher fish.
Mistake in paperwork and the truck is not entering the EU until cleared up. More delays.

 

[japancool]

It can, but the export rules must then be followed. Denmark is part of EFTA. The UK is not.

I know. It just doesn't make any logical sense though. It's not as if the fish undergoes some kind of horrible mutation reaches British soil.

 

[Ally Maxwell]

I know. It just doesn't make any logical sense though. It's not as if the fish undergoes some kind of horrible mutation reaches British soil.

Of course it doesn't make sense But the UK made the deal it made. EFTA membership would probably have been open to the UK, but there are several parts to EFTA membership that the UK didn't want to be bound by.

 

[Clinton]

I KNOW WHAT WE SHOULD OF DONE

WE SHOULD OF AD A REFRENDAM ABOUT BREXIT

 

[Mr D]

I know. It just doesn't make any logical sense though. It's not as if the fish undergoes some kind of horrible mutation reaches British soil.

Its not that, its complying with EU rules regarding imports.

 

[MBE2017]

Even French MEP have stated this is just so stupid, cutting noses off for political gain, nothing else. I’m cool about it, Gov should offer support until the situation is resolved, ban all EU boats from our dirty fishing grounds in the meantime.

Up to a couple of months ago the EU were going to allow this, and they have changed their position. Yet again our Gov have been taken for fools, being to trusting on NI, fishing, border controls. Let them have their games, meantime our economy will pick up faster, with some large new trade deals, ie India trade quadrupling possibly etc. Each new deal is another nail in the EU coffin.

 

[Mr D]

Even French MEP have stated this is just so stupid, cutting noses off for political gain, nothing else. I’m cool about it, Gov should offer support until the situation is resolved, ban all EU boats from our dirty fishing grounds in the meantime.

Up to a couple of months ago the EU were going to allow this, and they have changed their position. Yet again our Gov have been taken for fools, being to trusting on NI, fishing, border controls. Let them have their games, meantime our economy will pick up faster, with some large new trade deals, ie India trade quadrupling possibly etc. Each new deal is another nail in the EU coffin.

A trade war with the EU???
Not a good idea.

We only just accepted a deal and you want to break it 6 weeks later?


What exactly has changed in the EU regarding this in the past 3 months? What new rules have been brought in that did not exist in the EU before?

 

[Deleted member 59730]

I would hope that they had plans in place as to what would happen if it negatively impacted their business. As so many people have said, there are gains and losses.

One of the golden rules of business is "Don't piss off your customers".

Quite why Bojo the Clown and the fishermen do this is beyond me.

 

[Newchodge]

I'm confused. If a fishing boat can land its catch in Denmark, why can't the same fish caught by the same boat in the same waters be landed in the UK and exported?

There is no reason on this earth that they cannot be landed in the UK and exported. Just as long as the exporters follow the rules that allow their product to be imported to their chosen market. Who would have thought that the EU would apply to us, GREAT BRITAIN, a sovereign and separate country, untied to the EU in any way. the rules that they apply to every other non-EU country. How could anyone, possibly, have expected that they would do that?

 

[Paul Norman]

One of the golden rules of business is "Don't piss off your customers".

Quite why Bojo the Clown and the fishermen do this is beyond me.

The fishing industry, to me, is being rather disingenuous. It wanted Brexit. It won that. Inevitably, that meant some negotiating of who would fish where, and equally inevitably, it meant that their markets in the EU would be less accessible. None of that was a surprise.

Now, the industry should be working at selling more product in the UK, and seeking out new opportunities. Remember, this is an industry that specifically wanted the UK to leave the EU, and now it has got it's own way it is being disproportionately vocal about it being tough.

As an industry it really does need to pull up its socks and work with what it has. Much like all of us do.

And expecting the EU to work nicely to make it easier for Monsieur Lafayette to buy Scottish fish is naive.

 

[Mr D]

One of the golden rules of business is "Don't piss off your customers".

Quite why Bojo the Clown and the fishermen do this is beyond me.

Probably because neither have done this.

 

[simon field]

Unfortunately, most people in the uk don’t want to eat sprats, herrings, or flounders!

 

[DontAsk]

Who would have thought that the EU would apply to us, GREAT BRITAIN, a sovereign and separate country, untied to the EU in any way. the rules that they apply to every other non-EU country. How could anyone, possibly, have expected that they would do that?

Anyone with any sense. Something most fishermen (and others) seem to be lacking, given the time they've had to prepare for this.

 

[Mr D]

The fishing industry, to me, is being rather disingenuous. It wanted Brexit. It won that. Inevitably, that meant some negotiating of who would fish where, and equally inevitably, it meant that their markets in the EU would be less accessible. None of that was a surprise.

Now, the industry should be working at selling more product in the UK, and seeking out new opportunities. Remember, this is an industry that specifically wanted the UK to leave the EU, and now it has got it's own way it is being disproportionately vocal about it being tough.

As an industry it really does need to pull up its socks and work with what it has. Much like all of us do.

And expecting the EU to work nicely to make it easier for Monsieur Lafayette to buy Scottish fish is naive.

We voted to leave. It was obvious for some time that a WTO deal was possible and was a worst case scenario. And was the one scenario we had the data to plan out in advance.
So the fishing industry planned for UK control of entire fishing waters plus being a non EU supplier to the EU? Well, half of that apparently. Not so much the other half.

 

[Mr D]

Unfortunately, most people in the uk don’t want to eat sprats, herrings, or flounders!

Then that is a marketing problem to solve. Easily done too.

 

[DontAsk]

Unfortunately, most people in the uk don’t want to eat sprats, herrings, or flounders!

It only takes a bit of imagination and a tie in with a "celebrity chef" to change that.

 

[Mr D]

It only takes a bit of imagination and a tie in with a "celebrity chef" to change that.

Indeed - a marketing blitz, a bunch of recipes printed in magazines, a few celebrity chef endorsements, bunch of taste tests done at supermarkets / community centers.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Anyone with any sense. Something most fishermen (and others) seem to be lacking, given the time they've had to prepare for this.

The Cornish Fishermen's trade body recommended their members to vote remain. Some fishermen I know got confused by the difference between fish quotas and fishing waters.

 

[Irontoe]

Quite amazing how quickly ‘we know what we voted for’ has turned into ‘we don’t like what we voted for’.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

It only takes a bit of imagination and a tie in with a "celebrity chef" to change that.

Do you think that hasn't been tried many times over the years? Just compare your local Tesco fish counter with a fish counter in a French supermarché. The ones I know in France are about ten times the area and have ten times the variety. The fact is that apart from cod we as a nation do not eat fish.

 

[DontAsk]

The fact is that apart from cod we as a nation do not eat fish.

Utter rubbish.

 

[japancool]

There is no reason on this earth that they cannot be landed in the UK and exported. Just as long as the exporters follow the rules that allow their product to be imported to their chosen market. Who would have thought that the EU would apply to us, GREAT BRITAIN, a sovereign and separate country, untied to the EU in any way. the rules that they apply to every other non-EU country. How could anyone, possibly, have expected that they would do that?

Except, apparently, if the fish lands in the UK, it has to undergo considerably different procedures, both administratively and physically, than if the same fish, caught by the same boat in the same waters lands in Denmark.

They must think we piss on them when they get here or something.

 

[japancool]

Unfortunately, most people in the uk don’t want to eat sprats, herrings, or flounders!

Wait, we eat loads of herring don't we? Smoke me a kipper anyone? Or have they fallen out of favour?

 

[Paul Norman]

We voted to leave. It was obvious for some time that a WTO deal was possible and was a worst case scenario. And was the one scenario we had the data to plan out in advance.
So the fishing industry planned for UK control of entire fishing waters plus being a non EU supplier to the EU? Well, half of that apparently. Not so much the other half.

Yes. I agree. And now, they are having a bit of a sulk.

They have had many years to get their ducks in a row. Well, herring, more than ducks.

 

[japancool]

Do you think that hasn't been tried many times over the years? Just compare your local Tesco fish counter with a fish counter in a French supermarché. The ones I know in France are about ten times the area and have ten times the variety. The fact is that apart from cod we as a nation do not eat fish.

Well, sushi's become a lot more popular over the years.

 

[Newchodge]

Except, apparently, if the fish lands in the UK, it has to undergo considerably different procedures, both administratively and physically, than if the same fish, caught by the same boat in the same waters lands in Denmark.

They must think we piss on them when they get here or something.

Denmark is in the EFTA, something we did not want to be in.

 

[japancool]

Denmark is in the EFTA, something we did not want to be in.

Regardless, it's the same fish, caught in the same place. It's no more or less dangerous if it lands in the UK or Denmark, and that's what the rule is supposedly there to prevent.

 

[Ally Maxwell]

Denmark is in the EFTA, something we did not want to be in.

You can lead a horse to water........he's already been told that, but apparently, international trade agreements shouldn't be a factor here

 

[japancool]

You can lead a horse to water........he's already been told that, but apparently, international trade agreements shouldn't be a factor here

Oh, and here was me thinking those rules were in place to protect consumers. Silly me.

 

[Ally Maxwell]

Oh, and here was me thinking those rules were in place to protect consumers. Silly me.

If you could see beyond anything more complex than a Daily mail headline, then you might be able to see it. Consumer protection is part of every international trade deal, but it is just that. One part. The UK could easily have had 'the same deal as Denmark' but there are several parts to it that the UK didn't want to be bound by. Standards divergence being one of them.

 

[Awinner2]

And the knock on effect to our fishing industry in Bridlington is spelt out here. Closure of a 60 year old business. https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/bus...rt-forced-close-due-brexit-restraints-3127061

 

[japancool]

If you could see beyond anything more complex than a Daily mail headline, then you might be able to see it. Consumer protection is part of every international trade deal, but it is just that. One part. The UK could easily have had 'the same deal as Denmark' but there are several parts to it that the UK didn't want to be bound by. Standards divergence being one of them.

See what exactly? These particular rules are supposed to be in place to ensure that fish entering the EU market meet a certain quality.

Yet exactly the same fish can be landed without hassle in Denmark, but if it land in the UK, it has to go through additional procedures. The fish is no more or less dangerous if it lands here.

So let's just be honest and admit that it's a protectionist measure, and has nothing to do with "standards".

If your best argument is a Daily Mail insult, it's not worth bothering with you.

 

[Newchodge]

Oh, and here was me thinking those rules were in place to protect consumers. Silly me.

The rules that are in place to protect consumers require that we conform to EU health and safety regulations. As a member we accept those regulations. As a 3rd party country we don't. Everyone knew that in 2016. Why is it, apparently, such a shock?

 

[japancool]

Far be it from our fishing industry to seek markets out beyond the EU. We have a trade deal with Japan and Vietnam, the 3rd and 4th largest consumers of seafood in the world.

 

[japancool]

The rules that are in place to protect consumers require that we conform to EU health and safety regulations. As a member we accept those regulations. As a 3rd party country we don't. Everyone knew that in 2016. Why is it, apparently, such a shock?

Dunno. Ask the the fishing industry.

 

[Newchodge]

Far be it from our fishing industry to seek markets out beyond the EU. We have a trade deal with Japan and Vietnam, the 3rd and 4th largest consumers of seafood in the world.

And the cost of exporting live shellfish to those markets?

 

[Paul Norman]

And the knock on effect to our fishing industry in Bridlington is spelt out here. Closure of a 60 year old business. https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/bus...rt-forced-close-due-brexit-restraints-3127061

Indeed. But again, we knew about this. This is not a surprise. This is part of the inevitable pay off involved in leaving the EU.

We really do have to take the knocks on the chin and make it work, because this was the UK's choice.