Brexit negotiations

[Awinner2]

And last night ITV local news reporting on massive congestion in Immingham docks caused by the slow processing of imports due to the increased paperwork and lack of enough Customs & Excise staff to do the checks. Dock storage is overflowing, ships being at anchor in the North Sea waiting to come in and ships being delaying on the return journeys to Rotterdam etc.

 

[japancool]

And the cost of exporting live shellfish to those markets?

No more than we already pay to export there. Scottish fish exports to Vietnam more than tripled in 2019, for example.

We import more seafood than we export.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Yet exactly the same fish can be landed without hassle in Denmark, but if it land in the UK, it has to go through additional procedures. The fish is no more or less dangerous if it lands here.

But Bojo the Clown wants to be able to import sub standard food from other countries like the USA. The EU system is to ensure that it doesn't reach them.

 

[Newchodge]

No more than we already pay to export there. Scottish fish exports to Vietnam more than tripled in 2019, for example.

We import more seafood than we export.

LIVE SHELLFISH

 

[Newchodge]

We import more seafood than we export.

Really? Is that imported to process then exported, or is that imported for consumption?

 

[japancool]

But Bojo the Clown wants to be able to import sub standard food from other countries like the USA. The EU system is to ensure that it doesn't reach them.

That hasn't happened yet. And there's no particular guarantee it will happen, that trade deal with the USA doesn't look like it's happening.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

No more than we already pay to export there. Scottish fish exports to Vietnam more than tripled in 2019, for example.

We import more seafood than we export.

Crabs and lobsters are exported live to Spain in trucks of water. While on the ferry sea water is taken in and circulated around the cargo. Just how do you intend to do that to Vietnam?

 

[japancool]

Crabs and lobsters are exported live to Spain in trucks of water. While on the ferry sea water is taken in and circulated around the cargo. Just how do you intend to do that to Vietnam?

I dunno. How do other countries that export shellfish do it? The US exports shellfish to places like Brazil and, surprise, surprise, the EU - so they're obviously not THAT worried about substandard fish.

 

[DontAsk]

But Bojo the Clown wants to be able to import sub standard food from other countries like the USA.

Millions of Americans seem to do OK on chlorinated chicken.

 

[japancool]

Really? Is that imported to process then exported, or is that imported for consumption?

My mistake. I misread the statistics. We import around 200,000 tons and export 275,000 tons (pa).

Still, that's a significant level of import that could be replaced with domestic production. Whether that's for consumption or processing.

This is excluding shellfish. We import around 70,000 tons of shellfish a year.

 

[Mr D]

And the knock on effect to our fishing industry in Bridlington is spelt out here. Closure of a 60 year old business. https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/bus...rt-forced-close-due-brexit-restraints-3127061

Lots of businesses fail. Even ones with better markets than the fishing industry.

 

[Mr D]

Far be it from our fishing industry to seek markets out beyond the EU. We have a trade deal with Japan and Vietnam, the 3rd and 4th largest consumers of seafood in the world.

Just a tad far for a 60 foot fishing boat to go deliver its fish.
Have to send by other means. Hey, very similar process as sending to EU?

 

[japancool]

Just a tad far for a 60 foot fishing boat to go deliver its fish.
Have to send by other means. Hey, very similar process as sending to EU?

Not sure. Do other countries need 71 pages of documentation for each truckload?

 

[Mr D]

But Bojo the Clown wants to be able to import sub standard food from other countries like the USA. The EU system is to ensure that it doesn't reach them.

Sub standard? Or just not meeting EU standards?
Is the food the US exports somehow different than the food eaten in the US? What in particular is sub standard?

 

[Mr D]

Not sure. Do other countries need 71 pages of documentation for each truckload?

Maybe some will require more. Maybe some less. Pretty much all will require some paperwork.

 

[Newchodge]

I dunno. How do other countries that export shellfish do it? The US exports shellfish to places like Brazil and, surprise, surprise, the EU - so they're obviously not THAT worried about substandard fish.

But only (to the EU) under strict control
https://www.fda.gov/food/food-export-lists/shellfish-exports-european-union

 

[DontAsk]

But only (to the EU) under strict control
https://www.fda.gov/food/food-export-lists/shellfish-exports-european-union

So there should be no problem for the UK if producers clean up (literally, the waters) their act.

 

[japancool]

But only (to the EU) under strict control
https://www.fda.gov/food/food-export-lists/shellfish-exports-european-union

Sure. But provision does exist in EU law for British shellfish to be exported to the EU. As they were happy to consume them last year, there's no particular reason they couldn't include them today.

I don't know the specific details, but the Environment Secretary suggested today that the ban is due to the EU changing their position on imports after Brexit, and that he wants them just to follow their own regulations.

I don't know what regulations he's referring to.

 

[Newchodge]

I don't know what regulations he's referring to.

I don't expect he does either.

 

[Newchodge]

But provision does exist in EU law for British shellfish to be exported to the EU. As they were happy to consume them last year, there's no particular reason they couldn't include them today.

PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND BEFORE ONE OF US DIES.

There is NO provision in EU law for British shellfish to be exported to the EU. NONE. There is provision in EU law for EU membersa and members of the EFTA to move shellfish arounf the EU.

 

[Mr D]

Sure. But provision does exist in EU law for British shellfish to be exported to the EU. As they were happy to consume them last year, there's no particular reason they couldn't include them today.

I don't know the specific details, but the Environment Secretary suggested today that the ban is due to the EU changing their position on imports after Brexit, and that he wants them just to follow their own regulations.

I don't know what regulations he's referring to.

Last year we were still in transition period and treated as though member of EU. Not now....

 

[japancool]

PLEASE TRY TO UNDERSTAND BEFORE ONE OF US DIES.

There is NO provision in EU law for British shellfish to be exported to the EU. NONE. There is provision in EU law for EU membersa and members of the EFTA to move shellfish arounf the EU.

Really. Then you can argue it with the Environment Secretary.

And as it happens, there IS provision for it to be imported. It has to be purified first.

SO YOU'RE WRONG.

Typing your argument in all caps doesn't make it any more right.

 

[Newchodge]

Really. Then you can argue it with the Environment Secretary.

And as it happens, there IS provision for it to be imported. It has to be purified first.

SO YOU'RE WRONG.

Typing your argument in all caps doesn't make it any more right.

That is not a provision for the UK. That is a provision for all non-member and non-EFTA countries.

 

[japancool]

That is not a provision for the UK. That is a provision for all non-member and non-EFTA countries.

It's a problem for the UK now because the shellfish industry didn't prepare for this. As you said - they knew about it in 2016, and did nothing.

 

[Ally Maxwell]

It's a problem for the UK now because the shellfish industry didn't prepare for this. As you said - they knew about it in 2016, and did nothing.

They were told by Gove et al that their market access wouldn't change.

 

[Newchodge]

They were told by Gove et al that their market access wouldn't change.

That wasn't the problem. The problem was that they believed them!

EDIT: But that didn't matter because they knew exactly what they were voting for.

 

[Mr D]

They were told by Gove et al that their market access wouldn't change.

Leaving the market but market access not changing????

Did anyone believe that? If so they should take it up with the Leave campaign for compensation.

 

[thetiger2015]

Leaving the market but market access not changing????

Did anyone believe that? If so they should take it up with the Leave campaign for compensation.

That was literally one of the cornerstones of the whole thing.

Nothing would change that much, because the EU needed the UK and would agree to almost everything we wanted. That was one of the main benefits of Brexit - we would win, the EU would lose. We could trade with the world - because, we didn't already, apparently.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...hern-Ireland-fish-Boris-Johnson-latest-update <<<< from 2019: Trawlermen blame the EU’s Common Fisheries Policy for a significant downturn in their trade but now believe Boris Johnson’s new Brexit deal could spark life back into the industry.

 

[Mr D]

That was literally one of the cornerstones of the whole thing.

Nothing would change that much, because the EU needed the UK and would agree to almost everything we wanted. That was one of the main benefits of Brexit - we would win, the EU would lose. We could trade with the world - because, we didn't already, apparently.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1...hern-Ireland-fish-Boris-Johnson-latest-update <<<< from 2019: Trawlermen blame the EU’s Common Fisheries Policy for a significant downturn in their trade but now believe Boris Johnson’s new Brexit deal could spark life back into the industry.

So unrealistic expectations added to unable to plan ahead ...... ?

 

[Ally Maxwell]

So unrealistic expectations added to unable to plan ahead ...... ?

Correct. Being blatantly lied to by the government of the day does not even enter into it.

 

[GraemeL]

Dooes the machine break when 10,000 posts are made about history?

 

[DontAsk]

I think the mods should lock this thread for 12 months. Then we can come back and point and laugh at the other side.

Which side will be laughing is still to be resolved

 

[Clinton]

Which side will be laughing is still to be resolved

I don't think we need to wait that long.

Brexit Britain will beat the eurozone to recovery this year

And we do also have evidence that disaster after disaster predicted by the financially clueless FT and the economically illiterate Economist didn't actually materialise.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I think the mods should lock this thread for 12 months. Then we can come back and point and laugh at the other side.

Which side will be laughing is still to be resolved

my prediction is that there will be roughly the same people arguing slightly different points but still all being right

Add to that those currently distracted by Covid will be back to moaning about Brexit

it’s like Groundhog Day on mogodon.

 

[Paul Norman]

my prediction is that there will be roughly the same people arguing slightly different points but still all being right

Add to that those currently distracted by Covid will be back to moaning about Brexit

it’s like Groundhog Day on mogodon.

This. There will never be agreement on it. And over time there will be other variables, too.

But Brexit was never, surely, an economy driven choice? I thought it was entirely a matter of principle?

 

[Newchodge]

But Brexit was never, surely, an economy driven choice?

£350m on the side of a bus?

 

[japancool]

Well, personally, I supported Brexit to stop discrimination, not because of a slogan on the side of a bus.

 

[DontAsk]

£350m on the side of a bus?

Do you really think (intelligent) people were taken in by that? Were you?

 

[Chris Ashdown]

£350m on the side of a bus?

We send the EU £350 million a week
Lets fund our NHS instead

Where did it say they would spend £350 million on the NHS, not the best copy i agree but your interpretation is crap

Still insulting half the population as simplistic

 

[japancool]

Covid is clearly God's way of punishing old people for voting for Brexit.