Brexit negotiations

Chris Ashdown

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  • Dec 7, 2003
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    Why should musicians have more EU privileges than your local Plummer, or electrician or any other freelance person who might like to work there for a few months, I understand its a big change for some interested parties, but we have our own rules, that will no doubt be difficult for EU members as well who would like to do some work in the UK

    This forum must have a lot of freelance people who have encountered many cases of Jack the lad from the EU who pay no tax undercutting the earnings of the UK freelancer who pays tax, NI and vat. hopefully that will now decrease over time
     
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    Why should musicians have more EU privileges than your local Plummer, or electrician or any other freelance person who might like to work there for a few months,
    1. I absolutely agree - everybody should be able to travel where they like and work and live there.

    2. Because the creative industries are the UK's biggest export, whether it's 'Millionaire', 'Grand Theft Auto', Adel, Phantom of the Opera, advertising work or James Bond movies - these are giant exports for the UK.

    3. Because bands and other musical acts can only earn a living by touring abroad. The UK market on its' own is not large enough.

    4. Because building trades (and plumber and electrician in particular) are protected activities and key works can only be signed-off by registered tradesmen who have passed all exams and tests for that country.
     
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    MBE2017

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  • Feb 16, 2017
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    All irrelevant now, the die is cast, either adapt or die.

    Too many looking at the past, behind them, the world is still turning heading forwards, so it’s best to look in the right direction before you crash into something.

    True entrepreneurs will do well, in or out of the EU. The UK is out, in twenty years we can decide if it was the right thing for the UK, I think everyone would concede 15 days after the transition period ended is a bit early to judge.
     
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    Chris Ashdown

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    So you have given up on all the future, and moving back to Germany

    I just received my full supermarket delivery this morning and no substitutes or out of stock items just like the last 8 months

    Government seems to keeping the pay packets going, so employment is surviving based on present situation, but yes unemployment may be the future for a short time but i hope only a short time, I stand by my give it three months and see how we are doing

    Goods are still being exported buy JCB, British aerospace wings for airbus, and no doubt many thousands of other companies

    Open your yes and look to the future and see what opportunities it offers rather than staying a luddite
     
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    Newchodge

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    I mean....I just....I...give up.

    As another poster mentioned. We had MEPs who were our ELECTED representatives in the EU and were paid to protect British interests.

    Farage was an MEP. You didn't know that?
    To be fair, not many people realised Farage was an MEP as he never turned up.
     
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    thetiger2015

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    Aug 29, 2015
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    So, you elected David Frost and Dominic Cummings then ?

    Yeah, this is what I don't understand about the Brexiteers. They contradict themselves when they don't need to.

    Unelected EU bureaucrats - they were actually elected.
    Protecting British businesses - by damaging one of our fastest routes to export.
    Protecting British jobs - by increasing imports from China and seeking a deal with the US that directly undermines that.
     
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    thetiger2015

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    To be fair, not many people realised Farage was an MEP as he never turned up.

    It's the contradictions that confuse the life out of me. Brexiteers are supportive of the very person they despise and it makes no sense. Farage rode the MEP train for years and was involved in discussions around fishing etc. He had an opportunity to stand up for the UK but chose to just shout at people for YouTube likes.
     
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    KM-Tiger

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    Aug 10, 2003
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    By the MEPs that YOU voted in !!
    Nope.

    Commissioners are proposed and appointed by the Council. MEPs role is merely to approve the recommendation of the Council.

    More interesting is the President of the Commission. MEPs do vote on that but it's a banana republic election as there is only one name on the ballot paper.

    UvdL was voted in by MEPs would you believe by 52:48. I'm surprised another vote was not demanded.
     
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    Mr D

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    Nope.

    Commissioners are proposed and appointed by the Council. MEPs role is merely to approve the recommendation of the Council.

    More interesting is the President of the Commission. MEPs do vote on that but it's a banana republic election as there is only one name on the ballot paper.

    UvdL was voted in by MEPs would you believe by 52:48. I'm surprised another vote was not demanded.

    And how is the council selected???

    Heads of state / heads of government.
    So - these council members as you say propose and appoint the commissioners. Any vote on it or simply selected like picking teams in infant school?
     
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    Okay, I'll sit back now and keep watching.
    Same here!

    I am particularly enjoying the squirming and stringing out of excuses and hollow explanations made by incompetent government ministers about anything and everything from Northern Ireland borders in the sea and Scottish fish out of the sea and anything else that is going wrong.

    On the other side, there are the spokes-people for incompetent supermarkets that watched this whole thing roll over them and did nothing about the absurd way they rely on 1001 different suppliers to deliver to their shops directly rather than having distribution centres and in-house bulk movements of goods.

    But for the first time, we are hearing about the break-up of the UK and the fact that most young people in NI and Scotland support breaking away from England. We can expect those charming people from the DUP to be spouting their venom and banging on about "The Red Hand o'r Ulster!" - always a pleasing sound! At the same time, a motley collection of bloated Colonel Blimps from the Scottish Conservatives will be harrumphing about the betrayal of the Union.

    Brexit will bring about the creation of the dUK - the dis-United Kingdom.

    Without Scotland and NI, there will be a sizeable majority in Englandshire (GDP per capita £33k) supporting Brexit and England can sink into splendid isolation, whilst NI (GDP per capita £26k) joins the RoI (GDP per capita £67k) and Scotland (GDP per capita £35k) joins the EU (GDP per capita £32k). (All figures in ppp.)

    The future is England on its own with Ireland and Scotland in the EU and using the €uro. The rising price of commodities including oil will probably persuade Scottish voters of the economic advantages of independence.

    With a more competent government, England could indeed find a better future as a nation independent of the EU. BUT quite where and how such a government is to be found remains a clouded mystery. The Conservative Old Guard are, well, old. The Young Turks are showing themselves to be well below par and very far from being up to the job.

    As for the absurd and hopelessly motley collection of what passes for an opposition and that peculiar piece of damp blotting paper leading it (I have seen mice with greater leadership qualities) they are the very epitome of everything that is wrong with the Westminster political system.

    For a UK or a dUK to enjoy those sunny uplands of which we heard so much, the Westminster system needs radical reforms that encourage men and women of genuine ability. There is no doubt that England could succeed outside the EU, but to do that will require leadership that is the opposite of the qualities of such people as Johnson, Handcock, Williamson and Patel.

    We are entering a new era in world politics - an era of governments everywhere without any effective opposition. This is true for democracies and dictatorships alike. This is dangerous and not being called to account weakens government.

    Around Europe, oppositions look increasingly like one of the more extreme episodes of Monty Python and in Germany 'Die Partei' (their answer to Python's 'Silly Party') has even got two MEPs! Lord Bucket-Head, eat your heart out!

    The latest recruit to oppositionless government will be the USA as Republicans retreat into various squabbling fractions of The Tea Party, Trumpian lunacy and the GOP-proper. Given the perilous state of the US economy (nearly $30tn public debt) that is hardly a good thing!
     
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    Mr D

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    Same here!

    I am particularly enjoying the squirming and stringing out of excuses and hollow explanations made by incompetent government ministers about anything and everything from Northern Ireland borders in the sea and Scottish fish out of the sea and anything else that is going wrong.

    On the other side, there are the spokes-people for incompetent supermarkets that watched this whole thing roll over them and did nothing about the absurd way they rely on 1001 different suppliers to deliver to their shops directly rather than having distribution centres and in-house bulk movements of goods.

    But for the first time, we are hearing about the break-up of the UK and the fact that most young people in NI and Scotland support breaking away from England. We can expect those charming people from the DUP to be spouting their venom and banging on about "The Red Hand o'r Ulster!" - always a pleasing sound! At the same time, a motley collection of bloated Colonel Blimps from the Scottish Conservatives will be harrumphing about the betrayal of the Union.

    Brexit will bring about the creation of the dUK - the dis-United Kingdom.

    Without Scotland and NI, there will be a sizeable majority in Englandshire (GDP per capita £33k) supporting Brexit and England can sink into splendid isolation, whilst NI (GDP per capita £26k) joins the RoI (GDP per capita £67k) and Scotland (GDP per capita £35k) joins the EU (GDP per capita £32k). (All figures in ppp.)

    The future is England on its own with Ireland and Scotland in the EU and using the €uro. The rising price of commodities including oil will probably persuade Scottish voters of the economic advantages of independence.

    With a more competent government, England could indeed find a better future as a nation independent of the EU. BUT quite where and how such a government is to be found remains a clouded mystery. The Conservative Old Guard are, well, old. The Young Turks are showing themselves to be well below par and very far from being up to the job.

    As for the absurd and hopelessly motley collection of what passes for an opposition and that peculiar piece of damp blotting paper leading it (I have seen mice with greater leadership qualities) they are the very epitome of everything that is wrong with the Westminster political system.

    For a UK or a dUK to enjoy those sunny uplands of which we heard so much, the Westminster system needs radical reforms that encourage men and women of genuine ability. There is no doubt that England could succeed outside the EU, but to do that will require leadership that is the opposite of the qualities of such people as Johnson, Handcock, Williamson and Patel.

    We are entering a new era in world politics - an era of governments everywhere without any effective opposition. This is true for democracies and dictatorships alike. This is dangerous and not being called to account weakens government.

    Around Europe, oppositions look increasingly like one of the more extreme episodes of Monty Python and in Germany 'Die Partei' (their answer to Python's 'Silly Party') has even got two MEPs! Lord Bucket-Head, eat your heart out!

    The latest recruit to oppositionless government will be the USA as Republicans retreat into various squabbling fractions of The Tea Party, Trumpian lunacy and the GOP-proper. Given the perilous state of the US economy (nearly $30tn public debt) that is hardly a good thing!

    Scotland is decades away from joining the EU.
    It will be a long way from meeting requirements if it breaks from UK. And just think of the hard LAND border with the EU we can have....
    Hey, can we have Cumbria back? Asking for a friend. :)

    Men and women of genuine ability? Leadership?
    The people that are best for the roles will never apply to do them. What we get is - at best - those standing for leadership roles being the people who got elected.
    The best people will never stand for election.
    Those who do stand - impacted by what the parties do.
    And those elected are not necessarily popular, merely more popular with those voting than any other candidate standing.

    Agree we need effective opposition. Don't care who we have in power, we need effective opposition to hold them to account on an ongoing basis.

    I'm not sure what Labour currently are. Effective opposition - perhaps they'll grow into. Been some years since we had that though.
     
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    Chris Ashdown

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  • Dec 7, 2003
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    I wonder what say, a population of 5 million would have in the EU or the EURO zilch or nearly zilch does this really sound like Nicola Sturgeon real wish

    To my way of thinking , her moves are just a good way of getting supporters for her party who are more nationalistic that most countries , but to stupid to realise its just a power game that will never happen
     
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    Newchodge

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    Mr D

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    Now that's a good idea. If you want to do business with the EU, do it from within the EU. Official advice from government advisors, apparently. I wonder why they didn't think of this and give this advice prior to 2016?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...481U4ZkJ6iZ5pykln_9w7ei-YSVWdSNFKdYMvTZcgTKMo

    As I recall, that advice was running around back then too.

    I know a number of businesses on another forum where the members looked into setting up in the EU as well as UK if the vote went the wrong way.
     
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    Scott-Copywriter

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    Now that's a good idea. If you want to do business with the EU, do it from within the EU. Official advice from government advisors, apparently. I wonder why they didn't think of this and give this advice prior to 2016?

    https://www.theguardian.com/politic...481U4ZkJ6iZ5pykln_9w7ei-YSVWdSNFKdYMvTZcgTKMo

    I was just about to post a similar article:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55786974

    A cheese company needs a £180 certificate for every £30 gift box they ship to the EU, and as a result, they've scrapped a £1m investment in a UK warehouse and are looking to set one up in France instead.

    For us supposedly being in such a strong negotiating position, it's unusual that we've accepted so many restrictions and obstacles in the deal that directly harm British businesses.

    Not to worry though; apparently there's a land of milk and honey just over the horizon. Yes we've rolled over a lot of trade deals on identical terms, and yes it looks like tax might actually go up instead of down due to Covid, thereby making us even less competitive, but there's a tsunami of benefits still to come, right?
     
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    Newchodge

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    I was just about to post a similar article:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55786974

    A cheese company needs a £180 certificate for every £30 gift box they ship to the EU, and as a result, they've scrapped a £1m investment in a UK warehouse and are looking to set one up in France instead.

    For us supposedly being in such a strong negotiating position, it's unusual that we've accepted so many restrictions and obstacles in the deal that directly harm British businesses.

    Not to worry though; apparently there's a land of milk and honey just over the horizon. Yes we've rolled over a lot of trade deals on identical terms, and yes it looks like tax might actually go up instead of down due to Covid, thereby making us even less competitive, but there's a tsunami of benefits still to come, right?
    The benefits have already arrived. WE HAVE BLUE PASSPORTS!
    Actually, like so many other alleged Brexit benefits, we could have had blue passports anytime we wanted them. passport colour, like sovereignty, was one of the things that was always under our control.
     
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    Mr D

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    The benefits have already arrived. WE HAVE BLUE PASSPORTS!
    Actually, like so many other alleged Brexit benefits, we could have had blue passports anytime we wanted them. passport colour, like sovereignty, was one of the things that was always under our control.

    Tell it to the voters of early 2016.
    Brexit has happened now.
     
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    Paul Norman

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    As I recall, that advice was running around back then too.

    I know a number of businesses on another forum where the members looked into setting up in the EU as well as UK if the vote went the wrong way.

    It is sound advice. If you want to do business in the EU, you really are well served by being there. If you want to do business in any economic zone outside your own, you need to learn the tax, duties and customs rules that will apply. Cross border trading is possible, but seldom without some cost.

    And some of us did close our UK operations and move. But that, of course, is a very subjective choice for people to make.
     
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    The Vaccine - one good reason we left the EU. We would be still waiting for them to OK the Oxford vaccine and be last in the queue to be supplied from Pfizer. Could not make up their minds and we would have been forced to go with them.

    EU deal was struck so late AstraZeneca could only offer to make its 'best efforts' to meet supply targets, rather than a firm guarantee.

    'The reason why we said that is because Europe wanted to be supplied more or less at the same time as the UK, even though the contract was signed three months later. So we said 'OK, we're going to do our best, we're going to try, but we cannot commit contractually because we are three months behind the UK'.
     
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