Brexit negotiations
- Thread starter Scott-Copywriter
- Start date
Visitors to the UK are mostly productive workers and SHOULD be able to stay longer. Not many opt to holiday in the UK for long stretches. Majority of those going to Europe are people who have stripped money from the UK fiscal system to buy second homes in the sun, Who cares about them- I don't.
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Deleted member 59730
That is OK if its just a parcel. If its a major project for a one man creative dealing with messages over many different time zones is a real pain. Also having to deal with Carnets for all your equipment when you are also dealing with all the other travel stuff is a pain I wouldn't wish on anyone.
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Deleted member 59730
I find that a very odd attitude. Do you believe that the money you earn is part of a fiscal system that stops you using it as you see fit? You'll be holding up Mugabe as an example to follow next.
I have earnt thousands of pounds abroad which I have brought into this country and paid taxes on. I don't see that it is the governments place to put restrictions on how I spend it.
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Certainly not - it is your money and do with it as you please, Just don't whinge when you cannot stay there half the year. However your money is nevertheless part of the fiscal system, sits in a bank, shares, buying flowers. I am the most anti government intervention guy around
Mugabe was the master at siphoning off money out of the country's system - much of it aid supplied by the gullible west agencies.
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The Byre
The UK used to earn large sums from acts touring the EU. Now every item in a major tour has to be listed on a carnet. Everything! Imagine an average larger rock act with 10-to-20 40-ton trucks filled with video gear, Jumbotron gear, PA rigs, hydraulics, inflatables, lighting control rigs, lighting trusses, wires, generators, everything. Dozens of computers, hundreds of lights, bolts, clamps, cameras, every daft wire now must be listed.
Of course, there will be little point, as UK artists and their crews trying to work in the EU are now committing a criminal offense. They have even lost the ability to tour the US and most other countries as those arrangements became part of EU agreements.
The creative industries are now slightly more important than manufacturing - and have been hung out to dry. There is no provision for touring artists and their crews, there is no provision for cross-border film work, all that economic activity that brought billions into the UK economy was sacrificed on the pyre of Brexit-at-all-costs and no matter what happens!
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Deleted member 59730
I will continue to whinge. It seems madness that I can go to Mexico for six months but not to France where I own a house.
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For some of us, the restrictions are a significant change in lifestyle. I am not going to whinge, but it is a big change, when your whole life is built on being mobile.
However....even the 90days limit is going to be flexible, at a cost. You can get an extended VISA, you can apply for residency, and you can (not if you own a property) go somewhere else.
The vanlife community here in Spain at worked together pretty well on this. Because they can now 'only' do two 3 month stints in Spain they are pretty much going on mass to Morroco for the bit in between.
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I remember doing such a carnet back in the early 80s. Only 2 trailers but it was a pain. Weighing stuff as it was hard to get the weight info any other way.
No computers back then so all typed by hand. One mistake in the item numbering and the CoC would reject it.
But in 2021 with IT, surely it must be a lot easier?
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Deleted member 59730
But it helps if the Government Ministers are on the same side.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ot-reading-brexit-bill-as-she-was-at-nativity
Anyone notice that our Fisheries Minister represents a constituency about as far from the sea as its possible to get? Same when the original fishing deal was negotiated 40 years ago.
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The Byre
By about '85 we were computerised and the tape-driven thing was linked to a daisy-wheel printer that banged away for a few minutes for each copy. Every gig involved a print-out of the contract (to be counter-signed by the person on-site responsible for overseeing the gig) and a 'How to get there!' for the driver and if outside Germany, a bloody carnet with copies.
The peeing across the border story -
Back then, driving from one country to another involved parking behind the customs buildings and taking your paperwork inside to be cleared. To not have to prat about with carnets, we went to especially busy crossings with large customs buildings with multiple clearing offices and I used to carry a piece of A4 paper into the buildings and only use the lavatory for a much-needed pee. Then I carried my piece of paper out, got into the truck and we drove off. That trick worked EVERY TIME!
Then came Maastricht and all that monkey-shines stopped!
The humour of border guards story - "Ik hab' nix drauf!"
I have always been a good mimic and so when I was working as a truck driver in the Eifel region, I adopted their accent. I crossed the border into Luxembourg and leaned out of my cab to tell the border guard that my truck was empty. Normally that would be something like "Ich habe keine Ladung." (I don't have a load.) or perhaps "Ich bin leer." (I am empty.)
But I adopted the Eifel accent and said "Ik hab' nix drauf!"
Unfortunately, I was unaware at the time that in that part of Germany, the idiomatic expression "Ik hab' mix drauf!" translates roughly into "I am a useless idiot!"
The border guard seemed to find my statement both amusing and interesting and told me to tell his colleague. "Hey Klaus, the gentleman wants to tell you something!" he shouted across the truck parking area.
So once again I bellowed across the area "Ik hab' nix drauf!"
Klaus seemed to find this statement inordinately funny and told me that I would have to tell them in the reception office. So I stopped the engine, climbed out of the cab and went inside. I was greeted by clouds of cigarette smoke and the smell of stale coffee. Truck drivers were sat at tables, waiting, I assumed, for salvation, Godot, or just their paperwork to be approved.
I toddled up to the glass that separates mere mortals from border officials and shouted "Ik soll bescheid sagen, dass ik nix drauf hab'."
Somewhere behind me, I heard the sound of coffee going up somebody's nose and the sound of grown men giggling like schoolgirls.
When the border official had dried his eyes, he told me that I was free to drive on.
After I got home that night, I told my wife that something rather strange happened at the Luxembourg border. As I told her the story, she fell apart with laughter.
So be careful what you say to German border guards - they have a finely developed sense of humour!
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It is easy, in that it does not involve anything complicated. But it does involve a great deal of time and work. One of Johnson's promises (sic) was that there would be no need for any form filling between N Ireland and the rest of the UK.
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We used to cross the Pyrenees into Spain at a tiny border crossing. Every year you could guarantee that we arrived 5 minutes after the guy who needed to stamp the carnet had started his 3 hour siesta.
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Deleted member 59730
Probably my funniest before Greece joined the EU was when they decided to copy my carnet list onto their own paperwork. Problem was that I had left one small piece of equipment costing about £10 in the cabin in the ship I'd arrived on. They took it away an locked it up at the central customs post.
My client and I were due to fly on to Jeddah the next day and were staying overnight in Athens. As the item was very small and cheap I thought I would just buy another at the duty free shop at Athens Airport. It couldn't cost more than a tenner. The ship's agent turned up again to drive us to the airport. He insisted on driving me back to the Customs office to retrieve the flashgun. I produced my receipt form and they fetched my equipment from the safe. I was told I still had to wait. Eventually a police officer arrived dressed like a Ruritanian general from a Marx brothers movie. He had a large peaked hat with plaited silver braid round the rim. Silver embroidered epaulettes, a leather bandolier, massive shiny embossed jacket buttons, silver ribbon down his matching pale blue trousers and a very heavy and serious looking automatic pistol in a holster on his hip completed the picture of a very overdressed cop. He picked up my item in one hand and with the other grabbed me by my upper arm and marched me down the stairs, ushered me into the waiting car and then got in beside me. We drove off to the airport. Then came the embarrassing bit. He again held my upper arm and marched me into the airport building. He only let go when I was safely ensconced in the departure lounge when at last I was handed my item. I was under the clear impression that Greece was glad to see the back of me. I felt as if I had been deported and I am sure everyone else in the departure lounge who witnessed the scene thought the same.
My client and I were due to fly on to Jeddah the next day and were staying overnight in Athens. As the item was very small and cheap I thought I would just buy another at the duty free shop at Athens Airport. It couldn't cost more than a tenner. The ship's agent turned up again to drive us to the airport. He insisted on driving me back to the Customs office to retrieve the flashgun. I produced my receipt form and they fetched my equipment from the safe. I was told I still had to wait. Eventually a police officer arrived dressed like a Ruritanian general from a Marx brothers movie. He had a large peaked hat with plaited silver braid round the rim. Silver embroidered epaulettes, a leather bandolier, massive shiny embossed jacket buttons, silver ribbon down his matching pale blue trousers and a very heavy and serious looking automatic pistol in a holster on his hip completed the picture of a very overdressed cop. He picked up my item in one hand and with the other grabbed me by my upper arm and marched me down the stairs, ushered me into the waiting car and then got in beside me. We drove off to the airport. Then came the embarrassing bit. He again held my upper arm and marched me into the airport building. He only let go when I was safely ensconced in the departure lounge when at last I was handed my item. I was under the clear impression that Greece was glad to see the back of me. I felt as if I had been deported and I am sure everyone else in the departure lounge who witnessed the scene thought the same.
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So, Jacob Rees Mogg has succeeded where you have all failed.
At last, he has provided what I have been asking for - a tangible benefit of Brexit.
He was pleased to tell the House yesterday that:
“... they are now British fish, and they are better and happier fish for it.”
What a load of Pollocks, uttered by a complete (s)prat.
At last, he has provided what I have been asking for - a tangible benefit of Brexit.
He was pleased to tell the House yesterday that:
“... they are now British fish, and they are better and happier fish for it.”
What a load of Pollocks, uttered by a complete (s)prat.
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I do wonder what sort of business people you lot are, you seem to expect things to run smoothly from day one. of the most complicated agreement this country has ever had, and still winging on day 15 that all is not sorted and running smooth
The coastal countries of the EU are flexing their muscle power to show there annoyance of the UK leaving their beloved EU, and if you thought it would be different the you must question your thinking
Byre is concerned about bands playing in the EU, well if that's the biggest problem send them to the USA or Australia, or wait a few months and see what the end result is
We are now protecting UK jobs and the EU is doing the same along with USA, CANADA,MEXICO, NEW ZEALAND, AUSTRALIA, JAPAN, SINGAPORE and a few more countries
I am sure that fighting Corvid is a far larger problem for most companies than endless chatter about history or why the world is not perfect, did God really need 10 days rather than 7 days
The coastal countries of the EU are flexing their muscle power to show there annoyance of the UK leaving their beloved EU, and if you thought it would be different the you must question your thinking
Byre is concerned about bands playing in the EU, well if that's the biggest problem send them to the USA or Australia, or wait a few months and see what the end result is
We are now protecting UK jobs and the EU is doing the same along with USA, CANADA,MEXICO, NEW ZEALAND, AUSTRALIA, JAPAN, SINGAPORE and a few more countries
I am sure that fighting Corvid is a far larger problem for most companies than endless chatter about history or why the world is not perfect, did God really need 10 days rather than 7 days
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Small, up and coming bands can no longer chuck their gear into the back of a transit, get on a ferry and tour Europe. They may be able to do that for the US and Australia but I would have thought they would need visas, but the bigger obstacle is the fares.
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What?
No, that's what Remainers said would happen. Brexiteers said there would be no issues at all, no border, no problems because the EU need us more than we need them, so they'll do whatever we want.
Don't start turning this round now. Brexit was sold as having absolutely no downsides at all. Any concerns were labelled as 'Project Fear'.
Remainers are pointing out that all the things we said would happen, are happening. Restrictions at border controls, computer systems not being ready in time, extra paperwork to complete for each individual component on each individual container.
How are you turning this round to being Remainers fault? You voted for it? I didn't.
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No.
If you travel through Europe/Ireland etc you will hit difficulties. You also hit problems travelling to other countries depending on the agreements they have in place with the EU.
It's not a 'little' difficulty. It's a fact that the UK is no longer a part of the EU and therefore is treated differently by other countries around the world.
Also, geographically, it is much more difficult and costly for a band to go to Australia than it is to go to France but the paperwork and restrictions are very problematic.
Now, while they may improve over time, this is most certainly not what Brexit was sold as. At no point did any MP or Prime Minister or anyone from No10 say that if you vote Leave, there will be restrictions in place for an indefinite period of time, until something gets sorted out.
Add COVID in to all this and you get no decisions being made on anything for months.
As for Mogg...he's mocking you. He's actually laughing in your face. He thinks the whole thing is hilarious and can hardly contain himself. British fish with little union flags on their faces.
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Deleted member 59730
I'm sure that Sir Simon Rattle and his 72 piece band will be glad to do more US and Austalian gigs. Before your stupid Brexit deal they could easily travel to another big continent with lots of concert halls just by catching a train. No paperwork. The LSO employs five full time staff to deal with their paperwork.
Now think of a tiny four piece band in the UK doing pub gigs. I knew several a few years ago who got £100-120 if they were lucky from pub gigs. They really enjoyed a quick tour of France and Belgium where they got £1000 a night with meals and accommodation on top. Even middle range UK bands liked playing EU gigs in bars because they could get good money every night of the year.
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Deleted member 59730
Conductor says musicians will have to ‘fight’ for visa-free tours
Star conductor Simon Rattle said on Friday he had applied for German citizenship after Brexit – and lamented the new barriers in the way of young musicians. “My passport is on the way,” said Liverpool-born musician, 65. “Like for many, this was an absolute necessity.”
“The fact that musicians and artists in general suddenly have to get visas for Europe is absolutely not the Brexit bonus we were talking about,” he said, in a reference to promises made by Brexit campaigners. “We will have to fight it.”
The Independent revealed at the weekend that the government “rejected” an offer from the EU to waive touring visas for British bands and musicians. Radiohead frontman Thom Yorke called the government “spineless f***s”.
Star conductor Simon Rattle said on Friday he had applied for German citizenship after Brexit – and lamented the new barriers in the way of young musicians. “My passport is on the way,” said Liverpool-born musician, 65. “Like for many, this was an absolute necessity.”
“The fact that musicians and artists in general suddenly have to get visas for Europe is absolutely not the Brexit bonus we were talking about,” he said, in a reference to promises made by Brexit campaigners. “We will have to fight it.”
The Independent revealed at the weekend that the government “rejected” an offer from the EU to waive touring visas for British bands and musicians. Radiohead frontman Thom Yorke called the government “spineless f***s”.
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Deleted member 59730
Because there were different rules then. As far as I know they didn't pop over for a two week tour.
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The Byre
We used to have an exchange system whereby musos from the UK could play in most other countries inc. Europe and the US, Australia, etc. This was replaced by an EU deal with those countries - now they can play in the UK are Ireland only. The same applies to film work, shows, etc.
I wrote to the government and got the following reply -
During our negotiations, we proposed measures to allow creative professionals to travel and perform in both the UK and EU, without needing work-permits. Unfortunately, the EU rejected these proposals.
The UK Government supports ambitious arrangements for performers and artists to be able to work and tour across Europe. In the negotiations with the EU, we were determined to get a good deal for British music because we recognise the value of this industry.
As negotiations began, we consulted extensively with the sector to find out what they needed from the negotiations. We listened to the experts in British music, including bodies like the Musicians Union, and reflected their views in our proposal to the EU.
During our negotiations with the EU, we sought a mutually beneficial agreement that would have allowed performers to continue performing across the continent without the need for work permits. Specifically, we proposed to capture the work done by musicians, artists and entertainers, and their accompanying staff through the list of permitted activities for short-term business visitors. This was a straightforward solution for our creative industries which would have benefited all sides.
The EU turned down our proposals on the basis that musicians were providing a service which they viewed as necessitating a work permit and/or visa.
This outcome is regrettable, however there is scope to return to this issue in the future should the EU change its mind.
In other words, we are back to "We had to get any kind of a deal and lump it!"
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Deleted member 59730
And reports suggest that the EU proposed a better deal and the UK turned it down.
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Imagine there is a Single, frictionless Market worth $19 trillion.....that can be reached very easily within half an hour by articulated lorry.
Imagine leaving that market and instead having an internal harmonised market of only $2.5 trillion.
And imagine in exchange you get something non tangible (that you had all the time) called sovereignty.
Imagine leaving that market and instead having an internal harmonised market of only $2.5 trillion.
And imagine in exchange you get something non tangible (that you had all the time) called sovereignty.
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Oh sorry, guess you missed it.
There was some negotation for quite some time regarding trade across the external borders. A 1200 odd page document was produced, you may want to read it sometime. Its quite useful for business owners who trade across those external borders.
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They got deported twice while they were there.
https://www.standard.co.uk/culture/music/the-beatles-hamburg-germany-1960-a4525196.html
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The Byre
There was. The EU is rapidly closing deals with third-world countries everywhere and does more third-world trade than any other first-world economy.
That was partially the case over 20 years ago - another myth!
The EU is already Africa’s largest partner for both exports (36%) and imports (33%), dwarfing Africa’s other trade partners, including China (9% exports, 13% imports), India (9% exports, 5% imports) and the United States (7% exports, 5% imports). The EU is also the biggest investor in Africa. In 2019 EU investment stocks totaled €261 billion, representing 40% of foreign direct investment in Africa.
While the world is getting hot and bothered about the role of China in world trade, the real expansionist trading bloc is the EU. The kewl thing is, it has giant markets with huge growth potential like Russia and the Middle East on its doorstep. Russians want Bosch and Miele white goods, Range Rovers and Audis (though heaven knows why!) and we increasingly want to see Russian films (made using German cameras) and buy Russian timber, gas, oil and steel.
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