WOW. No-one saw that coming. The EU has rejected Chequers proposal, as it does not meet their 4 freedoms requirements (I paraphrase). who would have thought it eh?
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Brexit negotiations
- Thread starter Scott-Copywriter
- Start date
As I said immediately after the result of the vote "we didn't give the right answer, wonder if we will the next time" .
My thought at the time was how soon will the rerun be?
As with all things EU I suspect that we will keep on voting until we give the answer the overlords find acceptable.
My thought at the time was how soon will the rerun be?
As with all things EU I suspect that we will keep on voting until we give the answer the overlords find acceptable.
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D
Deleted member 59730
If May and her Tory hardliners give you the hard brexit you want so that their chums can continue to gamble against the UK with their offshore investments that is OK if we can vote them out at the next GE? What if they lose massively because brexit is a disaster? Does the next government go cap in hand to the EU to rejoin? Wouldn't it be a lot better to settle the matter with a final people's vote on the real issues without the lies?
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T
The Byre
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-45601394
Knock yourselves out over that one!
Knock yourselves out over that one!
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D
Deleted member 59730
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...may-eu-deal-trade-irish-customs-a8548761.html
Every time the woman opens her mouth the pound falls. What will it be after the tory party conference?
Every time the woman opens her mouth the pound falls. What will it be after the tory party conference?
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DAMN I thought she was going to resign.
How pathetic is her response. We put forward a proposal (which wasn't acceptable even in this country) and now the EU has to put forward an alternative. We are the ones who are leaving. The EU doesn't give a s**t about it. Why should they try to find a way to get us out of the mess we have got ourselves into?
How pathetic is her response. We put forward a proposal (which wasn't acceptable even in this country) and now the EU has to put forward an alternative. We are the ones who are leaving. The EU doesn't give a s**t about it. Why should they try to find a way to get us out of the mess we have got ourselves into?
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I can't see any real difference, frankly. all the Conservatives are self serving rats.
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Now you have spoilt my Friday afternoon!
I wonder what Venezuela without the sunshine would be really like?
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You really have no idea, have you. Please go and annoy people with your complete lack of understanding, somewhere else, and preferably not in the thread about stolen cars.
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And when the law is subject to interpretation. If you say I owe you money and I use the same law to say I don't, what then?
Had a legal decision once to say I couldn't use a mapping program to calculate distance between two points. So got out my road map and a ruler and hey got the same result. Following the law and the decision not to use accurate mapping data.
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You'll no doubt be pleased to learn that the EU has no power to call referendums in the UK and also that the People's Vote isn't a "re-run" any more than the 2016 one was; it will be a different question with different options.
I've been following Jo Maugham as this has progressed and if it comes to pass it's going to be an absolute pickle for May because it'll mean that the most damaging outcome possible - No Deal/WTO - will have to be a choice by her and her government. A government willingly taking action to harm the nation and its citizens.
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Making the Jeremy Corbyn/Socialism/Venezuela link is extremely lazy and ill-informed, and the power of its message (whether its users realise it or not) relies on other people either being ill-informed or too lazy to look up even the simplest topical information about central American politics.
It's the equivalent of people connecting you with Nazism because of your support for UKIP when in reality your anti-immigration stance, like many UKIP supporters, has foundations other than racism. That would be lazy and ill-informed.
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Sorry, my mistake; without any irony it just looked like your chosen party's usual insult. I'll try and be more alert in future.
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So it'll be interesting to see how Corbyn acts in response to the new YouGov poll:
"About 90% of Labour members say they would vote to remain in the EU if there were a referendum now, while 86% back a public vote on the outcome of the negotiations, with just 8% against. Support for another referendum stands at 93% in London among Labour members, 82% in the rest of the south, and 86% in the north. The poll also revealed that should a general election be called, 74% of members want a commitment for a new referendum included in Labour’s manifesto."
NINE OUT OF TEN Labour members would now vote Remain and the support is almost as strong in the north as the south. Is Labour really 'for its members' or is it just for Corbyn's ideology. Wait and see!
"About 90% of Labour members say they would vote to remain in the EU if there were a referendum now, while 86% back a public vote on the outcome of the negotiations, with just 8% against. Support for another referendum stands at 93% in London among Labour members, 82% in the rest of the south, and 86% in the north. The poll also revealed that should a general election be called, 74% of members want a commitment for a new referendum included in Labour’s manifesto."
NINE OUT OF TEN Labour members would now vote Remain and the support is almost as strong in the north as the south. Is Labour really 'for its members' or is it just for Corbyn's ideology. Wait and see!
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He has already said that he will accept the mandate of the Labour party membership
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D
Deleted member 59730
But apparently for a vote on whether to have tea or coffee
What is the point of a People's vote if the people cannot change their mind and stay in the EU?
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But apparently for a vote on whether to have tea or coffee
What is the point of a People's vote if the people cannot change their mind and stay in the EU?
Then perhaps a good idea for you to vote someone other than Labour at next general election.
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But apparently for a vote on whether to have tea or coffee
What is the point of a People's vote if the people cannot change their mind and stay in the EU?
Jeremy is a Brexiteer, and I think he is a dangerous idiotic politician.
It appears he understands ignoring how a large portion of Labour voters voted in the referendum has made him understand he risks splitting the party in half, before he gets the chance to ditch half of them anyway. Let’s face it though, truth be told, Labour will say anything to get into power, after all the promises made at their conference only an idiot would vote for them.
Another huge recession on its way if they ever get in.
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Don't you think there is already another huge recession on the way if they don't get in?
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Another recession is on the way. You will have come across that before with you being so old.
Difference between recession and huge recession? Government interference.
Expect a government spending more on vanity projects to have bigger recession.
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Obviously there will be a recession, the question is who would manage and reduce it best for people. In my sixty years in the UK it tends to be Labour who cause or do not manage recessions well, the Conservatives tend to do better IMO.
I think the next recession will be very tough even for the Conservatives if they are still in power, if Labour start to spend money like there is no tommorow with all the planned denationalisation then it could be an awful one for most people, but just my opinion.
2-4 years before the big one hits IMO.
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"Labour has backtracked over Remain appearing on the ballot paper for another Brexit referendum."
https://news.sky.com/story/labour-new-brexit-referendum-should-only-be-on-nature-of-a-deal-11507247
Also, you've got McDonnell saying: “The greater the mess we inherit, the more radical we have to be; the greater the need for change, the greater the opportunity we have to create that change, and we will.”
Corbyn is as much a disaster socialist as Mogg et al are disaster capitalists. They want to build their ideologies on the ruins of people's lives. The difference is you expect it from the Conservatives because by its very nature capitalism is about dehumanizing people. By pushing for Brexit, he's allowing the greatest economic harm this nation has seen in living memory, just to be in power.
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You seem extremely blinkered to the evidence that an extremely large portion of that vote has changed its mind. It's a fundamental misreading of the situation to assume he'll "split the party" by supporting the majority of his membership, and at this point the only people really pushing your view are hard-line Brexiters anyway.
I agree, at this point their aim is to get into power and it would seem they are willing to sacrifice the poor and vulnerable on the altar of Brexit to achieve it. That said, a decade of Conservative ineptitude and corruption, there are millions who have been neglected and suffered and died due to such policy; it's pretty bleedin' rational to not want to vote for more of the same.
If you were genuinely concerned about recession, you wouldn't be so fervently in favour of a No Deal / WTO Brexit because right now, that's the biggest threat to our economy.
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That has now been 'clarified'. All options will be on the table, which must include a question on a possible referendum about staying in or not.
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That's good news, but with McDonnell and Corbyn seemingly ideologically positioned against it, it'll be interesting to see where this now goes.
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The answer you get depends on how a question is asked, many polls have come back where there is little change in attitudes regarding most people’s original decision, until this latest one.
I’m fervent in a democratic vote being honoured, we risk so much more by ignoring it than would ever be gained by overturning it. The UK public voted for Brexit willingly despite being told they would be worse off, or have you yet again forgotten the project fear propaganda?
Say a second referendum is run, then a third, fifth? Just how many will it take to satisfy the remainers when the vote went against them? Already remoaners are trying to split a leave vote by including a remain choice, to try and stack the odds in their favour. So much for democracy.
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You really aren't thinking about this, are you?
Including a remain choice in another referendum is not being done 'to try and stack the odds in their favour'!!! If such a choice is not on the ballot paper there is 0 chance of such a choice being made!
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The country has already chosen to leave, any second referendum should be accept a deal or leave on WTO.
Once we have left by all means campaign for another referendum, but the original one should be honoured to save democracy in this country.
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You're right, question phrasing has a huge impact.
Like "Should the UK remain a member of the European Union or Leave the European Union?" having dozens of different possible interpretations.
But I digress. Polling has been slowly swinging toward Remain as time has gone on and the truth of the potential outcomes has become more widely known. I'd be inclined to correlate those two facts as self-evident causality. "This latest one" also shows 90% of Labour members declaring a choice for Remain were it available; that's not a little change.
Well, there's a few bits to unpick here. Firstly our democracy is based upon our law and our law was deliberately broken by one side to achieve a favourable result. The result is at best tainted and at worst simply illegitimate.
It's worth noting that there is no risk of "overturning it" if a People's Vote returns a Remain option, because, well, it would be the Will Of The People. It would no more be overturning it than the 2016 vote overturning the last vote in the 70's.
And yes, what you and other far-right voters still insist on labelling "Project Fear" was a set of financial and social predictions that have largely come to pass, and even now your fellows continue to label any potential negative outcome as "Project Fear", ignoring the news as these events keep coming to pass (such as today's government notice about Flights).
It helps if you can get away from the mistake that a People's Vote is The Same Referendum being re-run; it isn't. It's a different question being asked of a different electorate armed with different information and experiences, and crucially, by a different government and sitting parliament.
Should there be other votes on the same topic in the future? Who knows? Perhaps, if there is a public appetite for it; I'd imagine another 48/52 result muddying the water somewhat, but I find that outcome unlikely. A stronger result would probably put the topic to rest long enough for demographic to permanently shift the preference.
If you're genuinely in favour of democracy you have to accept it for what it is, not try and stop it once you get what you want. That's not what's happening at the moment, no matter how much the far-right would like to label it as such. Ironically though, it is your complaint about what you think Remain voters are doing as you do literally the same thing.
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Not at all. I am totally in favour of democracy, if you were as well the vote would be honoured.
The only people trying to stop Brexit are the vocal remoaners, all confident in their superior intellect. I am not trying to stop Brexit, and the country has certainly not got what it wants and voted for, thanks to the remoaners doing everything they can to stop it going through. On this ALL the political parties are to blame.
Labour today signed its own death note today for the next election IMO. It needs midland and northern constituencies to vote for them, where most voted 55-60% in favour of leave. To now state they plan to dismiss whatever deal the PM comes back with, if any, and then allow a remain in the EU question on a future ballot paper, shows they have chosen to ignore all those millions of Labour voters.
One of Labours six test to any deal is to not have a worse deal for the UK, so they will have to campaign for remain. The ordinary voters will not forgive this treachery to their original votes.
Of course, tommorow JC might have changed his position yet again, he states he is a man of principles, yet he cannot state what they are on the EU. He is trying to appeal to everyone to wreck this Gov ahead of the national interest, knowing the time is fast approaching when he will have to admit he cannot deliver on his promises either. Ask the Liberals how voters react to broken promises.
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Interesting political map is emerging.
Look at the 3 main UK parties. Two are effectively lining up on one side of the voters and one lining up on the other.
How will those who tend to vote a particular party at a general election going to vote if the party they usually vote for is going against what they want?
Two parties splitting the vote one side, one party not splitting the vote.
That's on Brexit as the deciding factor for voters of course. Other factors as usual will also sway particular voters.
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Anyone catch Diane Abbott’s latest car crash interview last night on the BBC?
She is the gift that keeps on giving, a journalists dream, everything she talks about comes crashing down around her. Seeing her trying to deflect questions on the Labour non position on Brexit and how it is likely to hand out many P45’s to her northern MP’s was hilarious, trying to accuse the well known left wing BBC bias for harraning her with a Conservative opinion, only to be told the same question had been asked by a northern MP at their conference.
Seeing her eyes glaze over for a second or two before trying to deflect yet again was priceless. Do any of these MP’s truly believe their voters cannot see through their lies?
She is the gift that keeps on giving, a journalists dream, everything she talks about comes crashing down around her. Seeing her trying to deflect questions on the Labour non position on Brexit and how it is likely to hand out many P45’s to her northern MP’s was hilarious, trying to accuse the well known left wing BBC bias for harraning her with a Conservative opinion, only to be told the same question had been asked by a northern MP at their conference.
Seeing her eyes glaze over for a second or two before trying to deflect yet again was priceless. Do any of these MP’s truly believe their voters cannot see through their lies?
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The irony of course is that the remainer position is intellectually deficient. To them its more about posturing around the dinner table on a Thursday evening in their metropolitan echo chamber.
Like a lot of Brexit voters I am pro-federal Europe, but one that offers representative democracy with the accountability that brings. The current politburo have made it clear they will not change, and sometimes you have to break a thing to enforce change.
It occurs to me that many remainers on this forum have nothing to offer but faux scare stories, and their liar in chief Osbourne has since admitted his attempted deception of the British people.
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