Breaking the law
- Thread starter Newchodge
- Start date
Yes, we have been pushing for a no deal.
The EU were never going to capitulate on those issues, it was never going to happen. This was already well known and hence the plan all along has been to either get a no deal or get the best deal ever - we would never get the best deal ever, so now they're rolling out the excuse that the EU is being a very naughty boy and we're going to take our ball home unless they agree to let us do whatever we want.
Also, the fishing thing is a lot of cod. It's a tiny and receding industry, we import and export fish and the UK sold quotas to the highest bidder - the issue around fishing right is much closer to home than Brussels: https://unearthed.greenpeace.org/2019/03/07/fishing-brexit-uk-fleetwood/
"....the decline of the British fishing industry began some years before the EU’s common fisheries policy (CFP) took effect. And the quota hoppers are better understood as a symptom of a larger problem: decades of mismanagement by UK governments, which have seen fishing rights first commodified and then consolidated in the hands of a small and wealthy elite...."
Upvote
0
Correct, the EU and their member countries have already threatened all of those scenarios over the past year or two. If we failed to concede to their demands. Much better to simply go to WTO, let the proverbial hit the fan for a few weeks, and when the various countries notice their massive unemployment and lower balance of trade figures, then they might all decide to try for a deal.
Plenty of politicians in the EU member states accept many of the demands made by Barnier are completely unrealistic with no hope of being achieved. The UK does want a deal, most Europeans do, but the EUrocrats have a vested interest to punish and destroy the UK, since a successful UK will be the end of the EU.
Upvote
0
FTAs tend to have constraints on state aid that go beyond WTO. I have not read the Japan deal myself, but here is a press report (from a relatively reliable outlet)
https://www.ft.com/content/edb7d155-56b4-4065-9f83-31b2247fa178
Upvote
0
It makes you wonder what would happen if Scotland did win the vote and applied to join the EU with the trouble this existing border has made, would the EU welcome another fight for a border between Scotland and England plus Scotland and NI
Its no wonder that the EU does not understand a sovereign state and all the countries within the EU gave their sovereignty away and the EU is not itself a sovereign state and feels put out as it's not recognised as one
Will Germany under a new Chancellor feel the same way as Merkel to be the paymaster of Europe
Its no wonder that the EU does not understand a sovereign state and all the countries within the EU gave their sovereignty away and the EU is not itself a sovereign state and feels put out as it's not recognised as one
Will Germany under a new Chancellor feel the same way as Merkel to be the paymaster of Europe
Upvote
0
@Chris Ashdown we have no commitments about a Scottish border. The problem here was that we have a treaty with Ireland over the border that assumed both countries would remain in the EU. An independent Scotland is going to have a hard time negotiating compatible deals with two much larger economies both of which could just walk away.
It is perfectly normal to break international law. Eu law says EU law takes precedence Ruling 2/13 of the ECJ says precisely that. German courts ruled earlier this year that German law required Germany to break international law if it conflicted with German law. British courts have made similar rulings in the past.
Lots of countries are break international law all the time.
Is it not? A fine matter of definition given current treaties. it has all the trappings of a sovereign state and the legal differences are minimal.
It is perfectly normal to break international law. Eu law says EU law takes precedence Ruling 2/13 of the ECJ says precisely that. German courts ruled earlier this year that German law required Germany to break international law if it conflicted with German law. British courts have made similar rulings in the past.
Lots of countries are break international law all the time.
Is it not? A fine matter of definition given current treaties. it has all the trappings of a sovereign state and the legal differences are minimal.
Upvote
0
T
The Byre
There's a great deal of silly invective in this thread and not much understanding. So, just for the hard-of-thinking, here are some uncomfortable facts for BOTH sides of this silly argument -
A free trade agreement is the only way out for both sides and (IMO) the EU has far more important issues to deal with than what happens or fails to happen on the Irish border or in the Irish Sea. Add to all that, UK-PLC is rapidly running out of economic options and borrowing capacity and a World-wide recession is heading down the line.
How do you on both sides like them apples?
- The German supreme court decided recently that no international treaty can force a country to act against its own constitution (that was in that currency case a few months ago).
- Border controls of any sort between NI and the rest-UK would be against the UK constitution, as well as English common law and case law.
- 'Taking back control' of UK fishing in the near future (i.e. within a couple of years) is pointless as the UK has neither the boats nor the factories to deal with a significant increase.
- The Royal Navy does not have the ships required to police UK waters.
- Unless you want to build a Berlin Wall (one km exclusion zone plus 10km control zone and constant massive military presence) border controls between NI and RoI are impossible.
- Nominal controls would get blown-up or shot at.
- The UK car and appliance market has fallen from fourth to the sixth largest for German exporters and continues to fall in importance.
A free trade agreement is the only way out for both sides and (IMO) the EU has far more important issues to deal with than what happens or fails to happen on the Irish border or in the Irish Sea. Add to all that, UK-PLC is rapidly running out of economic options and borrowing capacity and a World-wide recession is heading down the line.
How do you on both sides like them apples?
Upvote
0
Yes he split Scottish areas in two with his wall.
Made it much harder to travel from northern Scotland to the southern parts of the country.
Split tribal territory simply because of wanting a cheap wall....
He'd have been better doing it in northern Lancashire across to Yorkshire. Though of course more expensive.
That reminds me, can we have Cumbria back now?
Upvote
0
Can buy boats relatively easily. I'm sure there are plans for building them - and not exactly a shortage of shipyards capable of small jobs like that.
Crewing them - hey, lots of unemployed people.
Royal Navy has the ships for patrolling UK waters - we've 40 last I looked, even with some down for repair or crew leave that means 20 plus capable of patrolling. Add in aircraft, radio etc and don't need a RN ship tailing each individual fishing boat in order to protect it.
Upvote
0
@Newchodge we are shooting ourselves in the foot if we hold ourselves to higher standards than anyone else.
No one really cares. If we were still a super power with an empire we might have an obligation to set an example. We do not and its time we woke up to that and just acted like another country.
@The Byre I agree with most of what you said, but we also need to recognise the world has changed and Europe is not as important as it used to be. We need ftrade with the rising powers more than the has beens.
No one really cares. If we were still a super power with an empire we might have an obligation to set an example. We do not and its time we woke up to that and just acted like another country.
@The Byre I agree with most of what you said, but we also need to recognise the world has changed and Europe is not as important as it used to be. We need ftrade with the rising powers more than the has beens.
Upvote
0
We can, and probably should, grant access to EU fishing boats. But we do it wholly on our terms. That's what 'taking back control' means in that context. And we can and should encourage investment in our fishing industry, to enable coastal towns to thrive.
Additional fishery protection vessels were ordered some time ago now.
Upvote
0
“Silly pipe-dreams of regaining greatness or becoming a second Singapore are just that - silly pipe dreams.” The Byre
Little point in any nation, company or individual thinking they can improve their lot using such logic. Whilst it might seem far fetched, nothing to stop the UK trading its way back up again, either way it’s the course the country is on.
People laughed at Japan after the war, they went on to be on the second largest economy, then they laughed at China, Korea, Singapore, India etc. Economies like Empires rise and fall, nothing to stop us improving our performance.
Little point in any nation, company or individual thinking they can improve their lot using such logic. Whilst it might seem far fetched, nothing to stop the UK trading its way back up again, either way it’s the course the country is on.
People laughed at Japan after the war, they went on to be on the second largest economy, then they laughed at China, Korea, Singapore, India etc. Economies like Empires rise and fall, nothing to stop us improving our performance.
Upvote
0
- Original Poster
- #58
I think that the current issue proves, yet again, that leaving the EU comes at enormous cost. Ignoring the cost to the EU, which is not, really, our concern, I cannot see how it is possible to leave without re-igniting the N Ireland problems. The fact that there have been 4 years of discussions, squirmings, posturings, lying, genuine attempts and hypocrisy, without anything approaching a viable position is, I think, evidence of this. Perhaps we should just leave and face the consequences. All of them.
Upvote
0
Yeah, errrr, about that. The UK has left the EU, we are just in a transition period.
Upvote
0
LOL
People who don't see the UK's position as credible are not on the UK's side. They enjoy all the benefits of citizenship (or residence) but bat for the other side. They actually support and cheer on the other side and constantly criticise and ridicule their own side.
The level of disloyalty we've seen over the last few years is absolutely shocking. Only in Britain! It's rare to see Americans act that way. You won't get it in India or China either. Just the UK.
We had (and have) a viable position. The EU is just being difficult - not even agreeing a Canada style deal - hence the drift to a WTO. WTO is good news.
People who don't see the UK's position as credible are not on the UK's side. They enjoy all the benefits of citizenship (or residence) but bat for the other side. They actually support and cheer on the other side and constantly criticise and ridicule their own side.
The level of disloyalty we've seen over the last few years is absolutely shocking. Only in Britain! It's rare to see Americans act that way. You won't get it in India or China either. Just the UK.
Upvote
0
Totally. and not just on matters related to EU.
A national trait of self-depracation might be endearing in many ways, but it's commercially dreadful. Every time things related to manufacturing are discussed, or more recently Covid actions, we show our tendency to compare the worst of ours with the best of theirs.
Upvote
0
The EU is showing itself for the self-interested, corrput, protectionist monolith that is has become.
All of which has turned me from a moderate remainer to a rabid leaver. Do you really want to be part of a club that tries to scare you into remaining?
Upvote
0
Me, too.
I'm sorry, I won't give them the excuse of self-deprecating!
They are doing it out of disloyalty, out of having greater loyalty for a foreign power.
They are not doing it out of jovial selfdeprecation.
I'm not talking about those who are Remainers, I voted Remain myself. It's perfectly acceptable to want peace on the continent, cooperation, being part of a club etc etc. It's fine to recognise the good parts of the EU - the standing up to large corporates, their approach on GM / the environment / employment standards / whatever. I recognise them too.
I'm talking about the people who, now that the UK's position is clear and we have left, are supporting the other side and rooting for the other side and constantly criticising our side, their side.
There's a word for people like that.
Upvote
0
T
The Byre
Yes there is - the economy is failing and internal structures are weakening.
With the partial exception of India, where a great number still live in poverty, those countries got their priorities right. The first step to any country gaining or regaining a position of authority on the world stage and prosperity for its people is education.
Last year, I asked two primary school teachers what a quarter times a third is and neither could answer. That is 1/4 x 1/3 = ? I wrote it on a whiteboard and both came to different and wrong answers!
Our nearest university lists the entry requirements for a technical subject as "One A-Level, grade D or higher or the equivalent life experience."
We had umpteen applications for a position as sound engineer for recording music. None of the applicants, all with degrees in music technology, could read a circuit diagram or a music score.
In audio technology, a decibel is usually a measure of sound or voltage. We had a visiting lecturer and his class for audio technology look at our equipment and I asked the class how many decibels I would have to push up a fader in order to double the perceived volume. Nobody knew. The lecturer suggested 3dB and then corrected himself and said six. The correct answer is ten.
We had an electrician working on some wiring and he could not work out a kilowatt load value from voltage and amperage.
We had a visiting IT student who did not know her times-tables or the value of Pi.
If I talk to wannabe camera people who are studying cinematography and I start on colour science, I might as well be talking to the wall. If I ask them about sample rates and bit depths, I get the most wonderful array of garbled non-knowledge imaginable.
You have to sort out education BEFORE you run around trying to conquer the world! The reasons the trains are Japanese, the roads and hydroelectric schemes were built by Germans and the computers, telephones and cameras were built by the Chinese is because you cannot get anything done with a nation of innumerate halfwits who cannot calculate 1/4 x 1/3.
Upvote
0
Its rather rare to find patriotism online but i have to agree with most of the above posts
Byre type posts are what the EU and Michel Barnier live for they aim to use every sign of weakness as a tool against us and prove to themselves they are along the right course of action
The MP's Lords and US senators will keep sprouting International law is above all other things in life and play into the EU's hands, whilst the EU brings in ever increasing measures against us
Either we are a sovereign state or a puppet of the EU
Byre type posts are what the EU and Michel Barnier live for they aim to use every sign of weakness as a tool against us and prove to themselves they are along the right course of action
The MP's Lords and US senators will keep sprouting International law is above all other things in life and play into the EU's hands, whilst the EU brings in ever increasing measures against us
Either we are a sovereign state or a puppet of the EU
Upvote
0
We are so bad which is why thousands of oversea's students decide to come to the UK universities and not Germany
We know our place in the world and do quite well at it, we are not trying to rebuild a empire just take our place in a modern world, Our inventions are as good as anyone else and have got down from imperialism to reality which unfortunately cannot be said of yourself
Upvote
0
I can do that calculation, but that's because I was taught properly in Junior School. Funny how things stick in the mind, even now I can picture the classroom and my teacher explaining how to multiply fractions.
You are dead right, something has gone badly wrong with education. We turn out far too many that are neither literate or numerate.
Upvote
0
Well the EU seem to now think they can allow food imports to NI from the UK, they just need a couple of days to add us to the list, they also are happy for financial transactions to continue through London deal or no deal, to prevent meltdown in Europe.
For all the bluster, reality is beginning to kick in, and all those collaborators arguing against the UK interests need to understand how true real world negotiations happen. Anything is possible, but I said it day one, the EU is not the UK’s friend, they are our competitors. A strong thriving UK is the EU’s worst nightmare, and will lead to the collapse of the EU. The sooner the better.
Now I have nothing against the German people, but the EU is run for the benefit primarily of Germany. Sooner or later the rest of the European nations will wake up and realise there is another way, and they will take it.
For all the bluster, reality is beginning to kick in, and all those collaborators arguing against the UK interests need to understand how true real world negotiations happen. Anything is possible, but I said it day one, the EU is not the UK’s friend, they are our competitors. A strong thriving UK is the EU’s worst nightmare, and will lead to the collapse of the EU. The sooner the better.
Now I have nothing against the German people, but the EU is run for the benefit primarily of Germany. Sooner or later the rest of the European nations will wake up and realise there is another way, and they will take it.
Upvote
0
T
The Byre
Well, they won't like this one -
Let me lead into the light the humble DSLR - a camera. Well, any damn camera that also records video. Most of you have one of these things and they nowadays all record 4K or at least UHD. Stunning images - but they all have one drawback. 29m59s record time, after which they shut down and you have to press the red button for the next 29m59s.
There is a good reason for this - it is to protect the companies Bosch, Thomson, Phillips and BTS. The dawn of cheap and good HD cameras (so before 4K came along) saw those manufacturers struggling to keep up with the likes of Panasonic, Canon, Sony, etc. To stop that Far Eastern invasion, those four manufacturers lobbied hard for heavy tariffs on pro-quality imports.
External recording was OK, but those pesky camcorders and DSLRs that hopelessly out-gunned the German, French and Dutch homegrown products needed to be made either more expensive or at least not allowed to be configured for professional use - so tariffs if they record HD over half-an-hour internally or can read time-code.
Those tariffs were introduced about 20 years ago.
They are still there, so the two Panasonic DSLRs I bought last week can only record 29m59s, after which, they stop recording.
Bosch, Thomson, Phillips and BTS stopped making studio cameras ages ago. The tariffs are there to protect an industry that no longer exists!
And the pro-EU lobby wonder why the EU gets a bad press!
Upvote
0
Similar threads
Latest Articles
-
90,000 jobs are heading your way. Your rates bill might get there firstIf you run a business in Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds or Bristol, you were probably told some...- Ozzy
- Updated:
- 8 min read
-
How to Price a New Product or Service: We Asked UKBFOn 5 August, @Data Swami posted in the General Business Forum with a question that ought to have...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
- 7 min read
-
70 years of director bans in six months: Companies House has stopped asking nicelyCompanies House published a release on August 6th 2026 that every company director should read...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
- 7 min read
-
MTD for Income Tax: your first quarterly update is due 7 August.If you are a sole trader or landlord and your gross income from self-employment and property was...- maka
- Updated:
- 4 min read
-
Andy Burnham's Manifesto for Small Business, and How It Stacks Up Against Count BinfaceIf all goes to plan (or rather, to Labour's timetable), Andy Burnham will be sworn in as Prime...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
- 5 min read