Are you a Christian?

[garyk]

Hm its a flippant post deliberately posted to further the OP particular religion,Gods spam methinks.

The OP would have to have had serious brain surgery to not be able to answer his query himself.

Earl

I'm with the wise man, thats you that is Earl!

 

[Kett]

Hm its a flippant post deliberately posted to further the OP particular religion,Gods spam methinks.

The OP would have to have had serious brain surgery to not be able to answer his query himself.

Earl

The OP was rather hoping someone could point to a relevant angel site. Not sure how that involves brain surgery.

To ask about where to find sympathetic investors is a biz issue.

But thanks again to Vvaannmmaann, who did give some good leads. They go mainly to US angels though I have sent out some enquiries.

If I had been asking about where to find angels with another specific minority interest would I have had my request so challenged? I wonder?

5 years since launching though I am more convinced than ever that I would not go it alone without God. It has ceratinly helped in my case. But I will not explain as that was not the reason for the post.

"Well no, it has very serious disadvantages. For one, god is not on your side " I said 'I was on his side'... a world of difference! Including obligations which it would not be fair to impose on an angel with other beliefs.

 

"Well no, it has very serious disadvantages. For one, god is not on your side "

I suspect 6 million jews felt that way a while back.

Bit of a picky bugger ain't he.?

Earl

 

[cjd]

Bit of a picky bugger ain't he.?
Earl

Yeh, and not entirely honest for a Christian (but they never are . What he actually said was:

Actually rather than being sub-optimal, I rather think that being on God's side is a huge advantage! ; ) But with it comes resposibilities.

But hey-ho, close enough, eh?

 

[DancingWithPoodles]

Every religion is just an assumption! If god was really so mystical why you feel you have the knowledge to understand what he/she wants you to do with your life?

 

Quote

Actually rather than being sub-optimal, I rather think that being on God's side is a huge advantage! ; ) But with it comes resposibilities.

Nah your much better off joining the Masons I promise.

Earl

 

[Kett]

With all due respect I'll settle on God's promises!!
He's been around a bit longer.

 

[Dawg]

Go with christian. 'king great brand. Look at what The Christian Brothers do: get away with all the sodomy, lash and rum(?) malarky in Ireland, own great tracts of the Napa Valley where the best Californian wines are made, and more.
I know someone who has been on the Christain Brothers' Lear Jet and drunk Petrus with them at the Ritz.
Yay for branding, large ones all round. Christian: way to go.

 

Go with christian. 'king great brand. Look at what The Christian Brothers do: get away with all the sodomy, lash and rum(?) malarky in Ireland, own great tracts of the Napa Valley where the best Californian wines are made, and more.
I know someone who has been on the Christain Brothers' Lear Jet and drunk Petrus with them at the Ritz.
Yay for branding, large ones all round. Christian: way to go.

Oh you lucky basket you met the good ones.

should have been around for the inquisition.

Earl

 

[Cornish Steve]

But to those who are Christians, I just wondered whether any one here feels their faith is a vital part of how they run their business?

There are plenty of really excellent, well-run, and generous companies that are not Christian, and there are plenty of corrupt, poorly-run, and selfish companies that tout themselves as Christian. How many times have you been cut off by a car with a fish logo on the back, or ripped off by a company with a fish logo in the yellow pages? Shame on these individuals and companies for using their faith as a marketing logo.

Frankly, what we say or label ourselves is irrelevant; what matters is personal integrity. Let others judge us based on our actions rather than on our words.

 

[Kett]

There are plenty of really excellent, well-run, and generous companies that are not Christian, and there are plenty of corrupt, poorly-run, and selfish companies that tout themselves as Christian. How many times have you been cut off by a car with a fish logo on the back, or ripped off by a company with a fish logo in the yellow pages? Shame on these individuals and companies for using their faith as a marketing logo.

Frankly, what we say or label ourselves is irrelevant; what matters is personal integrity. Let others judge us based on our actions rather than on our words.

This was not a thread about using faith as a marketing tool, nor about how the conquistadors, spanish inquisition or crusaders behaved. I make no excuse for them.

It was a genuine question from one Christian to ask other Christian business people how they integrate their faith with their business particularly with reference to looking for a business angel.

I have little doubt there are badly behaved people who declare themselves Christian, ( I have met some !!).. There are many others who in the name of Christianity do fantastic, generous and honest jobs, both as individuals and companies and alleviate a huge amount of human suffering irrespective of the beliefs of the recipients.

I respect people from all or no faiths when they display generosity and integrity. I have not criticised any other faith nor company. I kinow I am far from perfect. But I also know I am much better, happier, and easier to live with than I used to be.

However my faith and relationship with God is of prime importance and joy in my life and I do not apologise for that either.

For all I am lampooned for 'God spam'
It seems to me that it is everyone else who keeps taking this thread off topic.

 

[Rhyl Lightworks]

Most people would not classify me as a Christian (although I do believe that Christ was one of the greatest people that ever lived), but I thought the Christian faith, as with most others, described a way of being. I do not see therefore how it is possible, if one is a Christian, to separate one's business persona from from one's non-business persona.

In other words, I do not understand the question.

Barrie

 

[papverpoppies]

I am not anything - other than me!

That applies to my private life, and my work life.

I do not understand people who say they are a different person in their work life, than in their private life - or vice versa.

I am me, and apply my values in whatever I say and do, during the course of any day...

I do not personally, go for all the religous beliefs (but each to his or her own).

But, I do get upset if someone thinks they are a better person than me, just because they do believe, and I choose not to.

It is not the religion that makes you a good and caring person - but you, the person.

Poppy

 

[cjd]

Born again would be capitalists make me smile; somehow they weedle their way around the eye of needle stuff and live with the conundrum of what their book says Christ said and how they actually live:

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." Matthew 19.21

 

[Hedgie]

As a Christian the only 'conflict' my faith would have on my business is on a moral issue. For example I will not deliver flyers for a 'massage parlour' or 'casino'.

 

[DaveSUK]

If your interested in getting an investor why don't you personnally donate to the charaties rather than the company then it would be nothing to do with an investor.

 

[Cornish Steve]

Born again would be capitalists make me smile; somehow they weedle their way around the eye of needle stuff and live with the conundrum of what their book says Christ said and how they actually live:

"Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me." Matthew 19.21

First of all, I'm impressed with your bible knowledge. Been taking lessons?

Second of all, if you looked at the context, you'd see that the words were addressed to a "rich young man" for whom money assumed too great a level of importance.

In general, though, I agree that too many people ignore the clear Christian teaching that "there should be equality". In other words, should my business prove to be very successful, the profits should be used for the betterment of the less fortunate and not my own comfort.

 

[DaveSUK]

In general, though, I agree that too many people ignore the clear Christian teaching that "there should be equality". In other words, should my business prove to be very successful, the profits should be used for the betterment of the less fortunate and not my own comfort.

So if one was to go off this principle they would be working for the benefit of the community rather than ones self.

Which would mean those who have slogged their guts out, and gone without things to establish a business to provide for themself and their families should share the fruits of their labour with those who prefer to site at home only venturing out to sign on at the job centre.

A slightly outdated idealistic approach not much use in todays world.

(before people slate me for having a go at doleys I am not talking about people who genuinely need social security benefits I am talking about the millions who abuse the system)

 

[Cornish Steve]

So if one was to go off this principle they would be working for the benefit of the community rather than ones self.

Which would mean those who have slogged their guts out, and gone without things to establish a business to provide for themself and their families should share the fruits of their labour with those who prefer to site at home only venturing out to sign on at the job centre.

A slightly outdated idealistic approach not much use in todays world.

(before people slate me for having a go at doleys I am not talking about people who genuinely need social security benefits I am talking about the millions who abuse the system)

There's a big difference between what I meant and how you interpreted it. No one should be told how to spend their profit. It's their money, hard-earned, and neither governments nor anyone else has the right to decide how it's spent. On the other hand, I have the right to choose not to keep profits but instead to use them to help those in need. We're talking personal choice, not government interference.

 

[cjd]

First of all, I'm impressed with your bible knowledge. Been taking lessons?

I think you've forgotten that we atheists tend to know more about the religions of believers than they do themselves because we've thought about it a bit more. In my experience most religious people know very little about what they believe - just the bits that are preached.

Second of all, if you looked at the context, you'd see that the words were addressed to a "rich young man" for whom money assumed too great a level of importance.

I hope you're not denying the general principle here Steve? Your man Christ was pretty specific and a regular commentator in the areas on money and wealth - he didn't think it was a good thing at all did he?

 

So if one was to go off this principle they would be working for the benefit of the community rather than ones self.

Which would mean those who have slogged their guts out, and gone without things to establish a business to provide for themself and their families should share the fruits of their labour with those who prefer to site at home only venturing out to sign on at the job centre.

A slightly outdated idealistic approach not much use in todays world.

(before people slate me for having a go at doleys I am not talking about people who genuinely need social security benefits I am talking about the millions who abuse the system)

Please bare in mind that you were one of gods chosen one's being born into one of the wealthiest societies on earth,and as such the likelyhood of having to slog your guts out is pretty remote and probably under your control.

Unlike the 50% of the population of the planet who have less than a dollar a day to feed themselves on.

most western whinging is driven by peoples own greed not need.

Earl

 

[papverpoppies]

There's a big difference between what I meant and how you interpreted it. No one should be told how to spend their profit. It's their money, hard-earned, and neither governments nor anyone else has the right to decide how it's spent. On the other hand, I have the right to choose not to keep profits but instead to use them to help those in need. We're talking personal choice, not government interference.

No one is stopping you from giving some of your money or time to the less fortunate people.

What has donating money got to do with being Christian? Perhaps if the Churches, gave some of their Wealth (large land owners etc etc) us other less mortals, might feel more inclined to follow their example.

Like I said before, you do not have to be religous, know the bible or work for yourself to be a kind, caring giving person.

Poppy

 

[Cornish Steve]

Perhaps if the Churches, gave some of their Wealth (large land owners etc etc) us other less mortals, might feel more inclined to follow their example.

I agree with you completely.

 

[quikshop]

But to those who are Christians, I just wondered whether any one here feels their faith is a vital part of how they run their business?

Fascinating question, and apologies for not reading through the entire thread, but...

I am anti-monolithic-religion as some of you will know from earlier debates, but regardless of Christian belief or any other faith or set of moral values, surely to be true to yourself you should be faithful to what you believe to be right and just in whatever you do?

 

[Deleted member 3454]

I'm coming into this thread rather late but I am a Christian and used to run a VA business as a sole trader. For the record I closed the business because I lacked marketing skills to get clients and was unable to make a living from it.

My faith is an important part of who I am and was therefore part of my business. I did not publicise my faith, although in the early days my publicity did include the fish symbol but I quickly realised it was not neccesary and there was nothing to be gained from using it.

I strongly believe that if you live by a faith there should be no compromise in anything you do and your business should therefore be run according to your beliefs. That does not mean that your clients are limited to people/businesses who share your faith but it is important that the people you deal with do not make you compromise on your beliefs.

Now that I'm back in the workplace as an employee my faith is just as important and I make no secret of it, but neither do I thrust it down my colleagues' throats. I didn't choose my job based on my faith, although I have worked for Christian employers, and some of my colleagues have no faith and others follow a different faith - that's the beauty of working for an organisation that attracts a wide range of people.

 

[Cornish Steve]

As an example of faith conflicting with employer in the workplace...

I've only ever worked for two companies. The first, which I won't name, was a very prestigious British company. Having helped win the largest contract we ever won in the US, I largely maintained the customer interface and opened a company office in Atlanta. At one point, the president of the US operation realised the importance of the project and assigned several of his cronies - who promptly messed up the whole thing. At one point, this crew demanded that I lie to the customer, which I would not do. I was gone within a couple of weeks.

At the time, I was in a tricky spot because of my visa situation, but it all worked out in the end. The president of the company flew me to his office and offered me a very substantial pay increase to stay - but, of course, that would have required me to tow his line. I turned it down and accepted a lower salary with the new company. The president threw a fit and tried to sue me, but it was all bluster.

I'm hesitant to write this because I don't want to give the wrong impression. In the end, though, we all face situations like this in our business life, and it may hurt us temporarily - so I thought it worth mentioning. A solid reputation takes a lifetime to earn and can be lost in an instant. The time always comes when consistent reputation holds you in good stead, and it's not worth selling your soul for a temporary gain.

 

[cjd]

As an example of faith conflicting with employer in the workplace....

Not one of your examples had anything to do with faith. They where straightforward personal, ethical issues that anyone with a sense of decency would deal with in the same way.

 

[movietub]

Not one of your examples had anything to do with faith. They where straightforward personal, ethical issues that anyone with a sense of decency would deal with in the same way.

I was just thinking that! Absolutely nothing to do with faith, the OP or anything other than plain honesty so far as I can see...

I always suspected the mods reacted to threads before reading them through

 

I strongly believe that if you live by a faith there should be no compromise in anything you do and your business should therefore be run according to your beliefs. .

Biggest mistake a business can make.

Run your business using facts.

Earl

 

[Kett]

Not one of your examples had anything to do with faith. They where straightforward personal, ethical issues that anyone with a sense of decency would deal with in the same way.

From my experience many decent, good people crumble or compromise under the pressure of life's dilemas. After all it would have meant Steve was less able to give to charity and less able to support others such as his family, maybe go into debt with his mortgage? There is also the argument that his loyalty should have been to the company and not his own self image. I have no doubt that under that sort of pressure I would definitely be needing to draw on God's strength.

If Steve says that it was faith which motivated him to behave like that who is anyone else to know better? :|It is to do with the motivation for doing right. That someone else might have done right for different motives is irrelevant. This is Steve's story.

It is only when I know I am forgiven and safe that I have the strength to do the right thing.

Without doubt there are others naturally better than me. But I find that since I have been released from guilt and since I have known the love of God I am a more honest person. Not because I have to be but because I enjoy growing into a 'chip of the old block' and discovering life in friendship with him. I am better this year than last, and better last year than I was the year before and so on. It feels great to know I am being re-created by him. Only he could do it.

Not PC but true.!

 

[cjd]

From my experience many decent, good people crumble or compromise under the pressure of life's dilemas.a

Nothing to do with faith

After all it would have meant Steve was less able to give to charity and less able to support others such as his family, maybe go into debt with his mortgage? There is also the argument that his loyalty should have been to the company and not his own self image.

Nothing to do with faith

I have no doubt that under that sort of pressure I would definitely be needing to draw on God's strength.

Finally. What you are saying is that you lack the strength of character to do what you believe to be the right thing without a crutch. Note that you knew what the right thing was, your problem is that you lacked the spine to deal with it without the excuse of your faith

It is only when I know I am forgiven and safe that I have the strength to do the right thing.

Quite.

Without doubt there are others naturally better than me. But I find that since I have been released from guilt and since I have known the love of God I am a more honest person. Not because I have to be but because I enjoy growing into a 'chip of the old block' and discovering life in friendship with him. I am better this year than last, and better last year than I was the year before and so on. It feels great to know I am being re-created by him. Only he could do it.

Not PC but true.!

I think your God would think better of you if you did the right thing simply because it was the right thing and for no other reason. However, I suppose we should be thankful that you've found a way to behave decently whatever nonsense it took.

 

[Jenni384]

I think it's unfair to criticise someone's good traits because they attribute them to faith.

Every person can have good morals - and most people let their personal beliefs carry through to most if not all areas of their life.

Morals and ethics are very much to do with faith if someone has a faith. They can also very much not be to do with faith, depending on the person. Faith (which I distinguish as personal belief - very separate from Religion which is a human construct around a standardised belief) is a very very personal thing and I think it's offensive to tell someone what they do and don't believe isn't to do with their faith. I'm not phrasing this very well but I know what I mean!

 

[Kett]

Finally. What you are saying is that you lack the strength of character to do what you believe to be the right thing without a crutch. Note that you knew what the right thing was, your problem is that you lacked the spine to deal with it without the excuse of your faith .

Both actually, clarity and spine. Yup!!

I think your God would think better of you if you did the right thing simply because it was the right thing and for no other reason.

He knows what I am and loves me anyway.

However, I suppose we should be thankful that you've found a way to behave decently whatever nonsense it took.

and yes you should!!
(Actually right by him is No 1 love the Lord your God, so I couldn't do that without knowing him anyway?!)

 

[movietub]

From my experience many decent, good people crumble or compromise under the pressure of life's dilemas. After all it would have meant Steve was less able to give to charity and less able to support others such as his family, maybe go into debt with his mortgage? There is also the argument that his loyalty should have been to the company and not his own self image. I have no doubt that under that sort of pressure I would definitely be needing to draw on God's strength.

If Steve says that it was faith which motivated him to behave like that who is anyone else to know better? :|It is to do with the motivation for doing right. That someone else might have done right for different motives is irrelevant. This is Steve's story.

It is only when I know I am forgiven and safe that I have the strength to do the right thing.

Without doubt there are others naturally better than me. But I find that since I have been released from guilt and since I have known the love of God I am a more honest person. Not because I have to be but because I enjoy growing into a 'chip of the old block' and discovering life in friendship with him. I am better this year than last, and better last year than I was the year before and so on. It feels great to know I am being re-created by him. Only he could do it.

Not PC but true.!

Regardless of all the above Steve's comments still had nothing to do with you're original post!

I'm sure most Christians do value honesty but that has nothing to do with Steve simply being an honest person with/without faith.

Some people are honest without discoving God.

 

[Gillie]

Morals and honesty do not go hand in hand with religion ... in fact its possible to have one without the other!!

Whilst you have your desires in life, I do find it slightly offensive that you suggest you would only deal with fellow Christians, as they have the same beliefs as you ... being a Christian surely means allowing for faults in others??

 

[movietub]

Morals and honesty do not go hand in hand with religion ... in fact its possible to have one without the other!!

Whilst you have your desires in life, I do find it slightly offensive that you suggest you would only deal with fellow Christians, as they have the same beliefs as you ... being a Christian surely means allowing for faults in others??

Possibly its hard for some to accept that others are 'as Christian' without actually being Christian? The op mentions that they became more honest after finding God. I'm always brutaly honest and I never met God

It does also strike me as a little offensive that Christianity should ever be a specific quality in a potential business partner. The op admits formerly being less honest. Surely a non Christian partner that was always 100% honest off their own back could be a better bet?

More than anything I'm more and more concerned that the whole Christianity thing is going to halm the business management. OP says they will not make decisions that are bad for the business due to prioritising their faith. But in my opinion restricting potential partners to Christians only is already a very silly decision.

I would have been happy to revise my thoughts on that last statement had the op demonstrated an ability to argue and defend their decision with cold hard logic, as opposed to simply feeling they are doing the 'right thing'.


Just being honest...

 

[cjd]

I think it's unfair to criticise someone's good traits because they attribute them to faith.

If they choose to discuss their 'good traits' on a public forum then they are fair game.

and I think it's offensive to tell someone what they do and don't believe isn't to do with their faith. I'm not phrasing this very well but I know what I mean!

I find people that find things offensive, offensive. Tricky thing this taking offense business.

 

[movietub]

I think it's unfair to criticise someone's good traits because they attribute them to faith.

Every person can have good morals - and most people let their personal beliefs carry through to most if not all areas of their life.

Morals and ethics are very much to do with faith if someone has a faith. They can also very much not be to do with faith, depending on the person. Faith (which I distinguish as personal belief - very separate from Religion which is a human construct around a standardised belief) is a very very personal thing and I think it's offensive to tell someone what they do and don't believe isn't to do with their faith. I'm not phrasing this very well but I know what I mean!

I think the problem was that regardless of honesty due to personal faith, or honesty for honesty's sake, niether had anything to do with the op's initial post or any of their subsequent comments.

To be fair Steve didn't actually say anything about his example of honesty being linked to faith of any kind. Rather it was a story about one very honest moment in his life. Which alone was worth a read so thats not a criticism either

 

[movietub]

I find people that find things offensive, offensive. Tricky thing this taking offense business.

I never understood the relevance of being offended at all. What possible difference can 'being offended'have on someones life?

If I hear someone say something I storongly disagree with I simply ignore it.

Has anyone aver suffered from being offended? Can it make limbs fall off? What bad thing actually happens to a person following hearing an offensive remark?

Not being daft, I really don't get this side to some peoples personalities!

 

[quikshop]

But I find that since I have been released from guilt and since I have known the love of God I am a more honest person.

Without wanting to offend you, I find this thread-drift into born again revelations quite disturbing. Your new found emotional crutch is fascinating and worthy of debate on so many levels but surely should be left for a new thread about the relevance of religion in a modern society?

I find it staggering that any of you religious sorts can accept the rules of and operate within a capitalist society when by its very definition it creates poverty and hardship alongside the wealth and success.

How do you sleep at night when the success of your business forces a competitor to go under, perhaps causing the owner to lose their house, maybe even result in separation from their partner due to overwhelming stress caused by the business failure??

Hypocrisy and religion are familiar bedfellows, it's nice to see both rearing their ugly heads in unison again