Are you a Christian?

[Esk247]

Just for a laugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydbbd-4oEds

holy cow batman!

or you could of had our messiah

 

[stugster]

Ever think Religion actually boiled down to just teaching your kids between Good and Bad? You know... Good gets you nice things bad gets you evil things... and then, before you know it, you've got the world's biggest lie on your hands.

 

[quikshop]

But what evidence have you got, other than their word?

Actually. Nah, I'm out. This is just a silly conversation. A time waster. It's not my responsibility to ensure people aren't suckered into it. They can make their own mind up; there's enough evidence out there of the truth. You don't even have to look far - what you're using to post these messages is a basis of Physics, a basis of technology, and a basis of human success without any God involvement.

Don't ever stop arguing against organised religion. Whereas personal beliefs are the absolute right of every individual, organised religion that seeks to corrupt, influence and terrorise must be fought at every turn.

It is the greatest threat to humanity we face, ignorance from those with the power to send nations to war and blind subservience of those who follow, each in the name of their particular God.

 

[Esk247]

how do christians feel about the current goings on with the popes arrival in the UK and those allegations of the dodgy priests and children? jesus would kick 'em in to next week..surely

 

[LicensedToTrade]

Don't ever stop arguing against organised religion. Whereas personal beliefs are the absolute right of every individual, organised religion that seeks to corrupt, influence and terrorise must be fought at every turn.

It is the greatest threat to humanity we face, ignorance from those with the power to send nations to war and blind subservience of those who follow, each in the name of their particular God.

Organised religion has been around for a while and so far as I can see the human race still goes on.

 

[bdw]

how do christians feel about the current goings on with the popes arrival in the UK and those allegations of the dodgy priests and children? jesus would kick 'em in to next week..surely

I just watched a Panorama programme tonight, which suggested (quite convincingly) that when Pope Ratzenberg was in charge of the Vatican's (very busy) Paedo investigations office he never reported proven child molestors to the authorities.

An English bishop or priest or something said that he felt really sorry for him because of the stuff he had been forced to look at during his tenure. AFAIC remember there was no mention of sympathy for the victims ... but I suppose that's religion folks.

From BBC Panorama web page...

But the earliest case involving Pope Benedict stems from his period as Archbishop of Munich in the late 1970s. There he chaired a meeting which approved psychotherapy for a priest who had molested children in the diocese of Essen, some 300 miles away.After a short period of treatment in Munich Father Peter Hullermann was sent to another parish where he continued to abuse.

 

[DCE]

how do christians feel about the current goings on with the popes arrival in the UK and those allegations of the dodgy priests and children? jesus would kick 'em in to next week..surely

Here is one scripture that need some thought!

Jesus said at:-

(Matthew 23:8-12) 8*But YOU, do not YOU be called Rabbi, for one is YOUR teacher, whereas all YOU are brothers. 9*Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. 10*Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ. 11*But the greatest one among YOU must be YOUR minister. 12*Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

What do they call a priest?

 

[DCE]

how do christians feel about the current goings on with the popes arrival in the UK and those allegations of the dodgy priests and children? jesus would kick 'em in to next week..surely

Here is one scripture that needs some thought!

Jesus said at:-

(Matthew 23:8-12) 8*But YOU, do not YOU be called Rabbi, for one is YOUR teacher, whereas all YOU are brothers. 9*Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. 10*Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ. 11*But the greatest one among YOU must be YOUR minister. 12*Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

What do they call a priest?

 

[benjamin_c]

how do christians feel about the current goings on with the popes arrival in the UK and those allegations of the dodgy priests and children? jesus would kick 'em in to next week..surely

No Jesus would just prey for their souls and forgive them.....

And the pope would tell them not to use condoms next time they abuse a child, contraception is a sin.....

Personally I think the perverts should be crucified, and I know exactly where the first nail would be going.....

 

[bdw]

Jesus said at:- (Matthew 23:8-12) 8*

DCE you need to open your eyes. I am 100% certain that Jesus said no such thing.

What actually happened was that many centuries after the [supposed] event someone else wrote that this was what his Jesus may have said had the incident actually occurred.

 

[LicensedToTrade]

Here is one scripture that needs some thought!

Jesus said at:-

(Matthew 23:8-12) 8*But YOU, do not YOU be called Rabbi, for one is YOUR teacher, whereas all YOU are brothers. 9*Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. 10*Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ. 11*But the greatest one among YOU must be YOUR minister. 12*Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

Are you sure this isn't an excerpt from Mein Kampf by Adolf Hitler? It does sound like the kind of thing he would say.

 

[stockdam]

What actually happened was that many centuries after the [supposed] event someone else wrote that this was what his Jesus may have said had the incident actually occurred.

You really should do some research........many centuries? Where do you get your "facts" from?

 

[DCE]

DCE you need to open your eyes. I am 100% certain that Jesus said no such thing.

What actually happened was that many centuries after the [supposed] event someone else wrote that this was what his Jesus may have said had the incident actually occurred.

Taken from The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) is a Catholic translation of the Bible published in 1985. The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) has become the most widely used Roman Catholic Bible outside of the United States. It has the imprimatur of Cardinal George Basil Hume.

Like its predecessor, the Jerusalem Bible, the New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) version is translated "directly from the Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic." The 1973 French translation, the Bible de Jerusalem, is followed only "where the text admits to more than one interpretation." Introductions and notes, with some modifications, are taken from the Bible de Jerusalem.

Matthew Chapter 23; 1-12

1 Then addressing the crowds and his disciples Jesus said,
2 'The scribes and the Pharisees occupy the chair of Moses.
3 You must therefore do and observe what they tell you; but do not be guided by what they do, since they do not practise what they preach.
4 They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on people's shoulders, but will they lift a finger to move them? Not they!
5 Everything they do is done to attract attention, like wearing broader headbands and longer tassels,
6 like wanting to take the place of honour at banquets and the front seats in the synagogues,
7 being greeted respectfully in the market squares and having people call them Rabbi.
8 'You, however, must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers.
9 You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.
10 Nor must you allow yourselves to be called teachers, for you have only one Teacher, the Christ.
11 The greatest among you must be your servant.
12 Anyone who raises himself up will be humbled, and anyone who humbles himself will be raised up.

Nothing ambiguous about what is written here.

 

[LicensedToTrade]

Taken from The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) is a Catholic translation of the Bible published in 1985. The New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) has become the most widely used Roman Catholic Bible outside of the United States. It has the imprimatur of Cardinal George Basil Hume.

Like its predecessor, the Jerusalem Bible, the New Jerusalem Bible (NJB) version is translated "directly from the Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic." The 1973 French translation, the Bible de Jerusalem, is followed only "where the text admits to more than one interpretation." Introductions and notes, with some modifications, are taken from the Bible de Jerusalem.

Matthew Chapter 23; 1-12

1 Then addressing the crowds and his disciples Jesus said,
2 'The scribes and the Pharisees occupy the chair of Moses.
3 You must therefore do and observe what they tell you; but do not be guided by what they do, since they do not practise what they preach.
4 They tie up heavy burdens and lay them on people's shoulders, but will they lift a finger to move them? Not they!
5 Everything they do is done to attract attention, like wearing broader headbands and longer tassels,
6 like wanting to take the place of honour at banquets and the front seats in the synagogues,
7 being greeted respectfully in the market squares and having people call them Rabbi.
8 'You, however, must not allow yourselves to be called Rabbi, since you have only one Master, and you are all brothers.
9 You must call no one on earth your father, since you have only one Father, and he is in heaven.
10 Nor must you allow yourselves to be called teachers, for you have only one Teacher, the Christ.
11 The greatest among you must be your servant.
12 Anyone who raises himself up will be humbled, and anyone who humbles himself will be raised up.

Nothing ambiguous about what is written here.

It must be an absolute nightmare for Rabbis who have kids and work as part-time teachers...what word do you use to describe them??? Their flock can't call him Rabbi, his kids can't call him father and none of his students could ever refer to him as a teacher.

 

[stugster]

Nothing ambiguous about what is written here.

I don't believe you. Can you honestly say, hand on heart, swear to God all mighty, that you don't think any of that text is, or could be, ambiguous?

 

[DCE]

It must be an absolute nightmare for Rabbis who have kids and work as part-time teachers...what word do you use to describe them??? Their flock can't call him Rabbi, his kids can't call him father and none of his students could ever refer to him as a teacher.

Missed the point. The Bible text was referring to spiritual brothers in the Christian congregation.

Jesus forbade his disciples to seek such titles of distinction. The reason he gave was that he was himself their Master and Teacher.

They were to be equal in authority; they were brothers; and they should neither covet nor receive a title which implied either an elevation of one above another, or which appeared to infringe on the absolute right of the Saviour to be their only Teacher and Master

It does mean that it does not also apply to your physical father your dad etc.

 

[stugster]

Missed the point.

If LicensedToTrade missed the point, how come you're so confident you haven't?

 

[cjd]

I love the idea that quoting chunks of some ancient unsubstantiated text is regarded as some kind of evidence for something. But even more I love the bits they never quote.

This makes me laugh out loud.

Dr. Laura Schlessinger is a radio personality who dispenses advice to people who call in to her radio show. Recently, she said that, as an observant Orthodox Jew, homosexuality is an abomination according to Leviticus 18:22 and cannot be condoned under any circumstance. The following is an open letter to Dr. Laura penned by a east coast resident, which was posted on the Internet. It's funny, as well as informative:

Dear Dr. Laura:

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding God's Law. I have learned a great deal from your show, and try to share that knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22 clearly states it to be an abomination. End of debate. I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some of the other specific laws and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15:19- 24. The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? - Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

Your devoted fan,
Jim

Note to Stumblers:

 

[LicensedToTrade]

If LicensedToTrade missed the point, how come you're so confident you haven't?

Exactly. The very fact that I misunderstood that text means that we have now established there are at least two ways to interpret it, if not more. The second you have to elaborate on what a sentence means (as you have just done DCE) you are accepting that an element of artistic license is required.

 

[bdw]

Nothing ambiguous about what is written here.

No, nothing ambiguous - just fantasy created by an unknown author many centuries ago and based on no evidence at all.

Pray (sorry) tell us what evidence you have that this is fact? :|

 

[LicensedToTrade]

I love the idea that quoting chunks of some ancient unsubstantiated text is regarded as some kind of evidence for something. But even more I love the bits they never quote.

This makes me laugh out loud.

I'd love to have heard the response...do you have it? There isn't a cat in hells chance of making a come back from that.

 

[DCE]

If LicensedToTrade missed the point, how come you're so confident you haven't?[/QUOTE

The Scriptures make it plain that the use of titles that acknowledge a person’s authority or rightful position are wholly appropriate. However, Jesus’ words at Matthew 23:6-12 clearly rule out the use of flattering titles among those claiming to be his followers within the Christian Congregation.

 

[LicensedToTrade]

If LicensedToTrade missed the point, how come you're so confident you haven't?[/QUOTE

The Scriptures make it plain that the use of titles that acknowledge a person’s authority or rightful position are wholly appropriate. However, Jesus’ words at Matthew 23:6-12 clearly rule out the use of flattering titles among those claiming to be his followers within the Christian Congregation.

Here is a question for you. Would you admit that the bible is full of contradictions? I.e. is it possible for someone to follow the bible to the letter?

 

[Esk247]

Why do people follow a book so .. erm..religiously?

thats it! i'm going to read..what is it..erm..yeah Katie Price 'Angel' and i'm going to follow it to the letter, everything she does, i'm doing...CHRIST! what the hell is that

The Bible isn't bad for your health, unless you try and do everything it tells you to do. It seems it started as a flyer kicking round Jerusalem and then people have scribbled bits on it...someone added a few pages too

 

[DCE]

Here is a question for you. Would you admit that the bible is full of contradictions? I.e. is it possible for someone to follow the bible to the letter?

If you ask these critics which parts of the Bible are contradictory, they usually have no specific example in mind. When examples are mentioned, they often turn out to be cases where different Bible writers tell the same story from different angles.

 

[stugster]

If LicensedToTrade missed the point, how come you're so confident you haven't?

The Scriptures make it plain that the use of titles that acknowledge a person’s authority or rightful position are wholly appropriate. However, Jesus’ words at Matthew 23:6-12 clearly rule out the use of flattering titles among those claiming to be his followers within the Christian Congregation.

So you're quite happy to accept the things cjd quoted in the letter? You'd be up with coming up to Scotland so we can go out on a Sunday and slaughter some workers on the Sabbath?

What are your thoughts on the age of this planet? 10,000 years?
Dinosaurs?

Do you honestly believe what you preach? When you say "yes", I don't believe you.

 

[Esk247]

If you ask these critics which parts of the Bible are contradictory, they usually have no specific example in mind. When examples are mentioned, they often turn out to be cases where different Bible writers tell the same story from different angles.

can i have a go at writing a bit of the bible? oh go on..please..i'll write about Ipods and Steam Engines.

(note: this isn't directed at you DCE, i'm just saying, i'm a non believer )

is there evidence for dinosaurs? aye

 

[LicensedToTrade]

If you ask these critics which parts of the Bible are contradictory, they usually have no specific example in mind. When examples are mentioned, they often turn out to be cases where different Bible writers tell the same story from different angles.

But there are some very explicit contradictions aren't there?

Here is an example:

Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (NIV) This tells you to let others know of your good deeds.

Matt 6:3-4 "Do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (NIV) This tells you to do your good deeds in secret.

They can't both be right can they?

 

[DCE]

But there are some very explicit contradictions aren't there?

Here is an example:

Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (NIV) This tells you to let others know of your good deeds.

Matt 6:3-4 "Do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (NIV) This tells you to do your good deeds in secret.

They can't both be right can they?

Not letting the left hand know what the right is doing, means that a person would not advertise his charitable deeds, even to those as close to him as the left hand is to the right.

 

[LicensedToTrade]

Not letting the left hand know what the right is doing, means that a person would not advertise his charitable deeds, even to those as close to him as the left hand is to the right.

Yes I gathered as much, but what does the first reference mean then? It seems to suggest you should advertise your charitable deeds so that they can thank God. This is a contradiction...

 

[DCE]

Yes I gathered as much, but what does the first reference mean then? It seems to suggest you should advertise your charitable deeds so that they can thank God. This is a contradiction...

The exemplary conduct of Christ’s disciples should make them stand out noticeably from among persons who are unacquainted with the Bible’s message.

Their kindness, patience, long-suffering, love and other fine qualities should make them appear as lights in a cruel, loveless world.

Also if you had really Good News to declare would you keep it to yourself or tell others?

Would you keep them in the dark about something that could give them everlasting life, on a paradise earth in the future, because remember what Jesus said

(John 8:12) 12.Therefore Jesus spoke again to them, saying: “I am the light of the world. He that follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light of life.”

True Christians would reflect the fact that they possess a wonderful hope for the future and share it with others.

 

[LicensedToTrade]

You didn't answer my question, you just used a load more gobble-dee-gook to baffle me.

Please once again explain why two verses in the same book can give two conflicting instructions?

The first says: Tell everyone about your charitable deeds

The second says: Don't tell anyone about your charitable deeds.

Please explain this without using any more verses. It is complicated enough.

 

[bdw]

... remember what Jesus said ...

This is not what Jesus said. It is what someone who did not know him wrote many hundreds of years later. Do you actually believe this?

 

[Top Hat]

Lev. 25:44

English Standard Version (©2001)
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you.

Is that a contradiction with basic morality, or is it ok to keep slaves

 

[DCE]

Yes I gathered as much, but what does the first reference mean then? It seems to suggest you should advertise your charitable deeds so that they can thank God. This is a contradiction...

No you would not advertise your good deeds to others, bringing notice to yourself, to people if they we not observers of those good deeds.

Like returning home and telling everyone how wonderful your are because you helped someone out that day.

 

[stockdam]

This is not what Jesus said. It is what someone who did not know him wrote many hundreds of years later. Do you actually believe this?

You really need to keep your posts factual. Matthew wasn't written many hundred years later. Next you'll claim it was thousands. As I suggested earlier, you should do some basic research to find out when it was written and how information in those days was circulated.

 

[LicensedToTrade]

No you would not advertise your good deeds to others, bringing notice to yourself, to people if they we not observers of those good deeds.

Like returning home and telling everyone how wonderful your are because you helped someone out that day.

Do you have to go on that Christian Alpha course to learn how to completely avoid answering questions or can any old politician do it? You have now managed to dodge the question three times now, having created a new contradiction of you own along the way.

With such a weak effort it is a wonder Christianity has made it this far

 

[DCE]

Do you have to go on that Christian Alpha course to learn how to completely avoid answering questions or can any old politician do it? You have now managed to dodge the question three times now, having created a new contradiction of you own along the way.

With such a weak effort it is a wonder Christianity has made it this far

How are you not seeing the difference in the scriptures, there will be certain deeds seen by people, but others are done in secret, like if you give some money because you knew they needed it, you would put it an envelope and put it through there letterbox say, without bringing notice to who sent it.

And you wouldn't also advertise the fact how kind and wonderful you have been to others.

To the person receiving that kindness, would give the credit to God as their prayers having being answered.

 

[LicensedToTrade]

How are you not seeing the difference in the scriptures, there will be certain deeds seen by people, but others are done in secret, like if you give some money because you knew they needed it, you would put it an envelope and put it through there letterbox say, without bringing notice to who sent it.

And you wouldn't also advertise the fact how kind and wonderful you have been.

To the person receiving that kindness, would give the credit to God as their prayers having being answered.

So where in the bible is this exhaustive list of which goods you should publicise and which you shouldn't?

 

[stockdam]

Lev. 25:44

English Standard Version (©2001)
As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you.

Is that a contradiction with basic morality, or is it ok to keep slaves

It depends on whether you are a Christian or not. Surely you can answer that question with some basic understanding of Christianity?