Apprentices - What Counts As The 1st Year?

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n_s_simpson

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Dec 7, 2012
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Hi All

We're in the process of hiring for a couple of new positions :)

We have one person coming for an interview and it looks like they'll want to go onto an Apprenticeship to get their NVQ Level 3. This person already has NVQ Level 2 (with another employer) and is 20 years old.

When it comes to the apprenticeship will they be classed as being in their 2nd+ year for wage purposes or does a new apprenticeship count as being in the 1st year again?

The package being offered is above the NMW but I'm trying to work out just how generous it is. (Either it's slightly over or considerably over depending on what the legalities are).

Many thanks

Nick
 

bakedplan

Free Member
May 18, 2017
24
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Hi All

We're in the process of hiring for a couple of new positions :)

We have one person coming for an interview and it looks like they'll want to go onto an Apprenticeship to get their NVQ Level 3. This person already has NVQ Level 2 (with another employer) and is 20 years old.

When it comes to the apprenticeship will they be classed as being in their 2nd+ year for wage purposes or does a new apprenticeship count as being in the 1st year again?

The package being offered is above the NMW but I'm trying to work out just how generous it is. (Either it's slightly over or considerably over depending on what the legalities are).

Many thanks

Nick

We advertised for an apprentice to join our family, and was frequently told by the local colleges not to pay too much of a wage else they'll only be seeking the money and not the skills or enjoyment... Not sure how "true" this is though. The NMW is just £3.50..
 
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STDFR33

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Aug 7, 2016
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Can't help you with your query.

But just a thought. Rather than pay them an immediate increase, you could use the increase to incentivise them.

For example, if the min wage is £5 and you were going to pay them £6 in the first year you could increase it during the first year on every unit / module they pass in the year. 5 modules would mean a 20p per hour increase on each module passed, for example.
 
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bakedplan

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May 18, 2017
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I can't believe the local colleges told you that - appalling.
Somewhat, maybe. But I guess there is some truth in that. We have someone who is paid above the requirements by law, which we review in 6 months to increase further pending modules they pass.

Can't help you with your query.

But just a thought. Rather than pay them an immediate increase, you could use the increase to incentivise them.

For example, if the min wage is £5 and you were going to pay them £6 in the first year you could increase it during the first year on every unit / module they pass in the year. 5 modules would mean a 20p per hour increase on each module passed, for example.
That's exactly what I was planning. Great minds :)
This is the best route we found, it works great for both parties, It's great that a lot of apprenticeships are now digitally so it's less hassle and time wasted too!
 
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n_s_simpson

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Dec 7, 2012
112
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I've spoken to the college and they are having to look into a few things.

1. They're not sure whether the candidate would be entitled to NMW rather than the apprenticeship wage because they are over 19 years old with an NVQ Level 2 already completed (with a different employer and provider).

2. They think we have to pay a 10% levy towards the NVQ costs because the candidate is over 19. Apparently this is a recent change so they need to check. Apparently it's only 10% because we don't employ over 50 people and don't have a £3M wage bill.

Cheers

Nick
 
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n_s_simpson

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Dec 7, 2012
112
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Well this seems to be a bit of a minefield. What the college thinks is:

1. The over 19 year old that's already done an NVQ L2 apprenticeship elsewhere is now entitled to NMW rather than the apprenticeship wage. For her age that means £7.05 rather than £3.50.

2. They are still looking into whether I need to pay 10%. Apparently the government documentation hasn't been updated to reflect the changes they have been hold about so they are getting clarification.

Are sorting out apprentices always this involving?

Cheers

Nick
 
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n_s_simpson

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Dec 7, 2012
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They are 21.

The college isn't sure whether the apprenticeship wage applies now they've completed their nvq level 2 with another employer/provider. They'll be in their 1st year with us doing an nvq level 3 but does the law see that as their 2nd year as an apprentice?
 
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godoit

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Oct 8, 2014
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@n_s_simpson some random advice on here.
I employ a lot of apprentice's i have a thread on here about how to get a good one, childcare industry. We employ 4 and 1 sticks for a while.
First bit of advice is drop the college, they are generally bad for advice. Go for a training provider. They will give you genuine advice and the business side as well as the social side.

secondly as long as the new employee qualification isn't above a S/Nvq 3 or HNC they can be an apprentice. We take a couple who have done the level 2 at college and train them as an apprentice on level 3, pay them a couple of quid over min wage and then they are a proper wage once qualified.

I dont know where in the UK you are but if you need some advice on a training provider let me know and ill see what I can find out for you.
 
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n_s_simpson

Free Member
Dec 7, 2012
112
5
Thanks for the info. We're in Stockport.

It's worrying that the apprenticeship department at the college are confused with the rules on this. So when the rules say that apprentices over 19 in their 2nd year are entitled to nmw do you read that as meaning it applies to courses lasting over 1yr? So offering them a new course means they are only entitled to £3.50?
 
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godoit

Free Member
Oct 8, 2014
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I'll double check with our training provider and see if they have any recommendations for Stockport. We deal with 3 colleges and they are all poor for legal advice and tend to go from what they have heard on the grape vine.
I have had your situation twice with no issue with a governing body. Will double check for legality tommorow but as it has never came up and we have had government funding for a level 2 previous apprentice to a level 3 I assumed it is ok
 
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