A mirror on my website - new idea

[LINGsCARS]

So, I usually have 40 concurrent visitors on my website in normal day/evening.

Armed with this info, I have taken who's on (the programme I use to check live, who is on the website) and hacked it (with the who's on software owner CEO Stephen Parker's permission).

Yesterday I had the breakthrough. I can now generate live XML of who is on my website. This means, I can create a "mirror" in the sense of a mirror you look in, by beginning to code a webpage of the programme, so that everyone can see who is on my website (just as you can see other customers milling around in Marks and Spencer as you walk around their real shop).

I am not sure where this is going, but there are 2 sides to it. Bear in mind I can sensibly and comprehensively log all this info, as if every visitor wears a GPS tracker in my giant car showroom website.

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For use by all visitors

1. I can make a page showing (fairly generic) info of visitor stats showing what they are doing currently and where they have been on their current visit. If you think of my site as a car showroom with 500 cars, it will then be possible to show a "crowd" looking at one particular car. Interactivity will be possible, using not popups (often blocked) but <div> elements which can pop up in a personal way. This does not have to be clumsy, for example, I could have a basic speaking avatar of me, or a dalek or something and people could interact. If they show interest in A, then I could cross sell or chat about B. This will be web 2.0 stuff. They will see others in the website looking, chatting, picking their noses. I just have to code it into a GUI. Ideas???

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For use internally

2. As soon as I identify anyone (using a variety of methods) and take their name (eg they propose/order a car, apply noodles, fill in a form, etc, or a combination of small clues pieced together, maybe from different visits) then I ID them via IP. Most people keep same/similar IPs these days of broadband. When they come back I know it. This could also use a cookie as a double bubble and check stuff like browser/version to make sure I have the same person by probability. Now, imagine a giant 60" plasma TV screen on the wall in my office, and a PC with voice software on it (Microsoft is already on).

Now... say a customer Fred Bloggs arrives. Fred is having a car. The TV displays the list of people (in big text so everyone in the office can see) and the voice announces/shouts out "Fred Bloggs, Nissan Qashqai, Signed Order, is here!". Flash flash. Horn!!! Siren!!! This is like he has walked into my shop again. I can now pedal like mad to contact supplier and find out what is new for Fred. Within a minute, I should be able to communicate with Fred and start to chat about what is going on in his life, the weather in Bolton, if it is his birthday I give him fireworks, and tell him new stuff about his car, LIVE. "your car arrived at the dealer today" or something. "It is having PDI". There are dozens of things. Bear in mind I know his job, address, all that stuff.

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I am missing stuff here, and am just scratching the surface. But, to have a website where real humans interact when you arrive is quite unique (so much more than a boring "live chat" button.

This is the next stage for websites, true interactivity, and no-one is doing it. Everyone loves this forum when posts come thick and fast because it seems like a real conversation. That is how I want my customers to feel. I will "give" them loads of stuff - "Fred, just watch this vid about taking delivery" and while he is 1 minute watching that, in the office we are scrabbling to get the extra info that makes things special for him.

The word of mouth from this experience will be crazily good. Wait till some news/PR pick up on it.

Don't give me loads of privacy guff, but does anyone have more creative (mad) ideas that I can use it for??? What would be REALLY good, what am I missing. I need emotion in the website, sticky, cream cakes, surprises and delight.

Ideas???

 

[LINGsCARS]

I will add:

I know there is a massive possibility here, and it may be able to involve collaboration (eg, 5 users play a quiz together) or unusually high interest in a car is highlighted for other visitors. I also know referring sites, (and tons other info), so eg, if someone arrives from Pistonheads, I can greet them uniquely "Hi pistonhead!" or whatever. I know what their text of their Google search has been to find me, so it is like someone landing in M&S with a big sign saying "I want a warm jumper". "These 100% woll jumpers are on sale, try one on!" ...in a car context. I can reward visits (£50 cashback for UKBF members, announced on entry and at every buy point) etc etc

But, I need feelings and ideas, and you lot are pretty good at that.

The idea is to move on from a static (but entertaining) website - already ahead of most, to the next level, like entering a multiplayer virtual game.

Does anyone gettit???? I am bad at expressing what I feel, but no other selling website does this stuff and I need feedback. Possibilities are endless. This really is the future.

A website is a 2-way street, much more than the flat advertising thing most have (or limit themselves to thinking about). With intelligent programming/ajax/javascript, interactivity and ping pong and response, live, this could get interesting.

 

[davidshaw89]

Ling I do like your concept - it will certainly give your customers a much more personal service.

Rack$pace do have an automatic chat facility which opens after 5 minutes of being on the website - but nothing as sophisticated as this.

Did you get any sleep last night? or were you up all night dreaming?

 

[deniser]

I think it's a great idea in that you can make their online experience pretty much like a real live visit to the car showroom - seeing what other people are looking at is great in the same way that if you are selling a house you make sure your appointments overlap - but I would be wary of too much interaction between the customers - otherwise they might forget what they came in for.

I would definitely buy something like this for my own site if you package it up for sale.

 

[Bathead]

Sounds really good to me. The only drawback I can see is if you have 40 concurrent users will you cherry pick your victims, as the staff needed may swing your figures around a bit. I can't see being able to handle more than 4-5 at a go. I guess you have automation there but to be personal you need to be personal. So at a guess I reckon around 15 people being hit and out of those 4-5 will want more interaction, so you would need 3 people manning the system to know it will run smoothly.

That is with my support head on which I guess can be more time consuming than you intend. I guess it's how personal you want to get?

 

[LINGsCARS]

I would definitely buy something like this for my own site if you package it up for sale.

Yeek.

I have no idea what I am doing yet, it will develop I am sure.

My worry is that I am only scratching the surface, and there are massive possibilities that I have not even noticed.

As we see on this forum and in many places on the web, it is better when many people get together and interact. But... most people's websites only allow a lonely experience (ie just you, and the website). That is as far as most people think (ie: I want a website).

Not saying I am better, but as my business is 100% relying on LINGsCARS website at the moment (soon will spread risk over 3rd party sites via some affilliate stuff) I want to grab some more of my "drop-off".

So often people say "make it more conventional/cleaner/simpler", but i think they are very 2 dimensional in their thinking. I want it more involving for the user.

Basically, I am still confused, maybe I will wake up with pure clarity one day. I am muddling through.

More ideas, suggestions (would be good if...) needed.

 

[Dizzydiza]

You sound like a very clever person. Its a very futuristic and great idea. I think you would make your millions if you succeed

 

[LINGsCARS]

Sounds really good to me. The only drawback I can see is if you have 40 concurrent users will you cherry pick your victims, as the staff needed may swing your figures around a bit. I can't see being able to handle more than 4-5 at a go. I guess you have automation there but to be personal you need to be personal. So at a guess I reckon around 15 people being hit and out of those 4-5 will want more interaction, so you would need 3 people manning the system to know it will run smoothly.

That is with my support head on which I guess can be more time consuming than you intend. I guess it's how personal you want to get?

I understand that. But, why not let the users interact, too?

No different from running a real-life shop. Everyone has questions, cars are big things. I need to 1) draw those questions out, 2) entertain, 3) gain "remembrance" - if that is the word.

I do have a number of staff who spend their daily life interacting (two do live chat and answer car sales queries, two administer current customers, one deals with new customers proposing - all that is online stuff in my Lingo and some email - , then there is Jon my hubby and me doing everything, and three IT staff from Sunderland Uni creating havoc and eating doughnuts and "messing about"). So, I can cope with a certain amount of extra live stuff, and remember if things are dealt with immediately it saves on legacy time dealing with them later.

But, I do see your points. They are real. Thx.

 

One trigger for choosing when to starta personal dialogue could be seeing someone going to a page for the second time....proof they are serious, and may only need a small push to buy.....

Another interesting thing to track is the cursor/scroll position: to see (on a very long page like yours) where on the page they are spending the most time.

 

[LINGsCARS]

One trigger for choosing when to starta personal dialogue could be seeing someone going to a page for the second time....proof they are serious, and may only need a small push to buy.....

Another interesting thing to track is the cursor/scroll position: to see (on a very long page like yours) where on the page they are spending the most time.

I agree, need to choose when to shock them.

Cursor is a great idea should be simple to do (with named anchors or tags or something).

I also want graphical "profiles" for each visitor, so I/we can see "where they have walked" through the site, see what they have looked at, what they have missed. Like playing 3 dimensional chess on Star Trek.

I would dream of a room of my people just guiding, viewing, manipulating, chatting, pointing, joking, laughing... and then hopefully the customers proposing.

 

[HC-Martin]

Might it put some people off the fact that effectively you're able to monitor them in such detail - and are waiting to 'pounce' (I know - not the correct term) just like a normal salesman?

Isn't it defeating the job of websites - for the user to be able to digest and browse in their own time etc?

 

Might it put some people off the fact that effectively you're able to monitor them in such detail - and are waiting to 'pounce' (I know - not the correct term) just like a normal salesman?

Isn't it defeating the job of websites - for the user to be able to digest and browse in their own time etc?

Can you imagine Ling jumping out of the page at you when you least expect it...

Might give someone a heart attack!!

Joking aside

Tracking has been around for years....and people know they are being monitored. A shrewd marketer Tom B ell created a package called "skunk works" a number of years ago, that did at least a proportion of what Ling is taking about - never released it for sale. It is also a fact that interactivity on websites does increase sales.

These robotic figures, that conduct upsells and downsells (eg the simple figures on upselldotcom.com... provably increase sales

 

[Bathead]

I understand that. But, why not let the users interact, too?

Might it put some people off the fact that effectively you're able to monitor them in such detail - and are waiting to 'pounce' (I know - not the correct term) just like a normal salesman?

Isn't it defeating the job of websites - for the user to be able to digest and browse in their own time etc?

I think that is the key if its balanced correctly. You're not a single victim on a web page waiting to be pounced on, you are part of a greater experience, which I think could work.

If I was on a page and up popped a chat "how can I help you today" i'd more than likely leave the site, but that's just me. If I could see other users and there was obvious complete interaction with everybody then that would interest me.

 

I agree, need to choose when to shock them.

Cursor is a great idea should be simple to do (with named anchors or tags or something).

I also want graphical "profiles" for each visitor, so I/we can see "where they have walked" through the site, see what they have looked at, what they have missed. Like playing 3 dimensional chess on Star Trek.

I would dream of a room of my people just guiding, viewing, manipulating, chatting, pointing, joking, laughing... and then hopefully the customers proposing.

Oh what a great idea,maybe we could have Vicars popping up on porn sites warning the population of the dangers of extra maritial sex.

I suspect the idea would go down a bomb with anti-constipation medicine manufacturers.?

Not sure that when I am quitely window shopping I would want to be assaulted by a Chinglish weilding barbarian from the fozen north telling me I was stupid for not buying a bleeding great 4 x 4 as they were so cheap.

Let alone the concept that 1984 was here for real.

Earl

 

Not sure that when I am quitely window shopping I would want to be assaulted by a Chinglish weilding barbarian from the fozen north telling me I was stupid for not buying a bleeding great 4 x 4 as they were so cheap.

Let alone the concept that 1984 was here for real.

Earl

It could become the new fashionable sado- massochism
Out with nanny whip....and tying to bed steads
In with half an hour paid abuse by ling.... all you have to do is visit her website...and go to the page marked XX

 

It could become the new fashionable sado- massochism
Out with nanny whip....and tying to bed steads
In with half an hour paid abuse by ling.... all you have to do is visit her website...and go to the page marked XX

Nah I would prefer the refugee from weightwatchers with the alledged big tits that appears on Lings Videos.

Earl

 

[kayak]

Oh what a great idea,maybe we could have Vicars popping up on porn sites warning the population of the dangers of extra maritial sex.

I suspect the idea would go down a bomb with anti-constipation medicine manufacturers.?

Not sure that when I am quitely window shopping I would want to be assaulted by a Chinglish weilding barbarian from the fozen north telling me I was stupid for not buying a bleeding great 4 x 4 as they were so cheap.

Let alone the concept that 1984 was here for real.

Earl

I like the idea if carried out correctly.

However, I don't like really intrusve things like pop ups etc, but if I had the *option* of entering into conversation with someone then brilliant.

It's like when you use online shopping, and they say 'other people that bought this also looked at this...'. Doesn't always work but it does sometimes.

Ling, I couldn't care less about talking to other customers, playing games or anything like that. They can't sell me the car, give me discount or answer any of my questions. But I'm not everyone, and I wouldn't care if the option was there, as long as it wasn't annoying me.

What I would like though, if say for example I was looking at two cars, and flicking between them constantly if someone came along and asked what I was trying to work out, bit like they do in a car showroom.

Not sure if this is cramping your style, but again I don't care about fireworks on my birthday, I'm on a car leasing site so want a car not a party, but again I do appreciate that if I de-designed your site it would look like every other car leasing site!

What I would be interested in, in short is creating personal information from my browsing habits. If I'm looking at Micra's and Punto's I really don't care about the special offer on high spec cars. Likewise, if I'm flicking between diesel and petrol versions, then please come and help me work it out.

Just my rambling thoughts anyway.

 

[LINGsCARS]

I like the idea if carried out correctly.

However, I don't like really intrusve things like pop ups etc, but if I had the *option* of entering into conversation with someone then brilliant.

It's like when you use online shopping, and they say 'other people that bought this also looked at this...'. Doesn't always work but it does sometimes.

Ling, I couldn't care less about talking to other customers, playing games or anything like that. They can't sell me the car, give me discount or answer any of my questions. But I'm not everyone, and I wouldn't care if the option was there, as long as it wasn't annoying me.

What I would like though, if say for example I was looking at two cars, and flicking between them constantly if someone came along and asked what I was trying to work out, bit like they do in a car showroom.

Not sure if this is cramping your style, but again I don't care about fireworks on my birthday, I'm on a car leasing site so want a car not a party, but again I do appreciate that if I de-designed your site it would look like every other car leasing site!

What I would be interested in, in short is creating personal information from my browsing habits. If I'm looking at Micra's and Punto's I really don't care about the special offer on high spec cars. Likewise, if I'm flicking between diesel and petrol versions, then please come and help me work it out.

Just my rambling thoughts anyway.

No, not rambling, that's very good, thanks.

Appreciated.

 

No, not rambling, that's very good, thanks.

Appreciated.

well I have to admitt the idea may well appeal to those sad and lonely types one see's walking around with a mobile glued to the ear.

But I suspect that main stream Britain is worried enough about intrusion into there public lives ,especially on the internet with all and saundry trying to compile huge data banks of what we had for sunday dinner.

When I shop I am perfectly capable of asking for help if I need it, but do resent when I stand still for more than 5 seconds in me local Tesco's some twit asking me " are you all right dear "?

in the words of Mr De niro " are you talking to me,are you talking to me "

Bang,Bang.

Earl

 

[kayak]

well I have to admitt the idea may well appeal to those sad and lonely types one see's walking around with a mobile glued to the ear.

But I suspect that main stream Britain is worried enough about intrusion into there public lives ,especially on the internet with all and saundry trying to compile huge data banks of what we had for sunday dinner.

When I shop I am perfectly capable of asking for help if I need it, but do resent when I stand still for more than 5 seconds in me local Tesco's some twit asking me " are you all right dear "?

in the words of Mr De niro " are you talking to me,are you talking to me "

Bang,Bang.

Earl

You missed my point.

Apart from suggesting that I am sad and lonely, which I find hard not to find offensive, my key to the suggestions was that I would have the option to accept help or not.

I don't like the idea of a massive pop up telling me to buy now etc, but if I can have a 2 second question answered, quickly and coherently - like where is the 1.5 petrol version of this car or something equally simple, then why shouldn't I want it answered. It saves me making a phone call or opening an email, plus it means that I can make an informed decision on that product.

To liken this to the simplistic over enthusiastic shop assistant, I am more after the person at the end of the aisle waiting for me if I need them, rather than having to walk to the customer service area. That way when I want my Tesco Value humous*, I can have it. *Can be changed to that nice new Audi, with the LED sidelights.

If I was really that worried about my security I would sit behind a massive firewall where no one could touch me and pay for everything on credit card and let my card provider pick up the pieces.

So, I refute your suggestion that it only appeals to those who are sad and lonely, and suggest it appeals to those who do not want to waste time, and like answers and results.

 

Apart from suggesting that I am sad and lonely, which I find hard not to find offensive

Afraid its a bit hard to see how you could find my post offensive as it was in response to Lings post and was addressing the state of play of the great British public.

But if you insist on being offended,I am glad to of been of service.

Earl

 

[kayak]

Merely because it was a quote from Ling, which was in a reply to my post, but I'm happy to be corrected if I mis-understood.

Anyway I have thick enough skin, hence my wording stating that I find it hard not to be offended, so unfortunately I'm afraid you weren't of service and I am not offended.

However, you do suggest that anyone that likes the idea is sad and lonely or something!

 

However, you do suggest that anyone that likes the idea is sad and lonely or something!

I am really offended that you chose to leave out the other qualification.?:|

"sad and lonely types one see's walking around with a mobile glued to the ear."

Now how could I possibly know if you have a mobile phone clued to your ear.?

Earl

 

[kayak]

Ahh, well I read it as a pre-given that I would have a mobile phone glued to my ear, rather than I had to be a sad, lonely type AND have a mobile phone glued to my ear.

Anyway, time to retire to my sad lonely corner and talk to my phone

Sorry for the slight de-railment of a lovely idea

 

[reggiemental]

I think it's a great idea Ling. A sort of virtual car showroom where one can interact with the staff.

I use LivePerson's software for email management, which also has inbuilt 'Who's On', so I know how incredibly useful this real time info is. I have all chat windows, (static or scrolling), turned off as many of our responses to queries are a bit technical in nature, so find it easier/quicker to explain by phone. However, what you are trying to achieve goes well beyond the usual chat window scenario and sounds really neat.

Would you 'hit' people, (based on the info you've collected), as soon as they arrived, or would they be 'invited' into the virtual space, so to speak?

I should imagine you get a lot of visitors in the evenings, so would it just be a case of turning off the software out of hours and displaying the existing site?

This is so totally different, it would be great to see it come to fruition.

Paul

 

[deniser]

More ideas, suggestions (would be good if...) needed.

Would be good if:

Each visitor was transferred into an online Sims type person that one could actually watch physically walking around the site. They could customise themselves with hair and clothes etc.

Then you could virtually kill off the ones you don't like!

 

[sm1]

Interesting idea again

Have you considered something on the more social side of things, like a forum or customers to have profiles? You seem to have enough people to be able to get the data from.

Personally I'm statistically hungry, so to know about what's going on around me, and that I'm not there on my own on the website, I like to know how many people are around.

Although basic -

I find this interesting for a call centre

http://www.jam.co.uk/livestatistics.aspx

 

[sm1]

Building on what deniser just said (great idea) I think that a room with the cars in a 3d view, like a showroom that's virtual (don't ask me how!) would look good. All the cars in 3D

 

[LINGsCARS]

I think it's a great idea Ling. A sort of virtual car showroom where one can interact with the staff.

Would you 'hit' people, (based on the info you've collected), as soon as they arrived, or would they be 'invited' into the virtual space, so to speak?

Paul

Would be good if:

Each visitor was transferred into an online Sims type person that one could actually watch physically walking around the site. They could customise themselves with hair and clothes etc.

Interesting idea again

Have you considered something on the more social side of things, like a forum or customers to have profiles? You seem to have enough people to be able to get the data from.

Personally I'm statistically hungry, so to know about what's going on around me, and that I'm not there on my own on the website, I like to know how many people are around.

Yes, yes, yes, all this stuff is possible, you certainly all gettit (except the forum grump, Sir Earl).

As Kayak was saying about Tescos, and as Deniser says, it would be good to show a view of the website by visitor. Basically, all websites are by product, or price. If it was by visitor (visitor-centric), I could show the cars with interest (ie 6 people looking at a car). Of course it could be dynamic, so some people could be at my free noodle bar, some at the desk asking for a price list, some in the library reading letters, some at the newsstand reading news. etc etc. I will need a site-map (but a REAL map, maybe like half-life or whatever.)

Thank you all SO MUCH for saying these things as it has clarified my thinking, the site should be based around VISITORS looking at stuff and doing stuff. How interesting to know where all the other people are, on the site?

"I wonder what those 4 people are looking at?" Just as on the forum, you are drawn to a busy thread.

Except no one on forums has any excitement about making it more interactive. You have to analyse the figures and compute in your brain.

Example: Let me suggest that when you log on the topic page here in this forum, you would be able to see (via <div>ved overlaid small avatar/human representations) where people are on the site, which forum they are in, which topic they are focussed on. Seeing who is grouped around which topic, by their little person icon thing. Seeing which one the Human JetSki is in would mean I could navigate away from it

This is really the future. It is about THE PEOPLE, not the website or product! Other people build confidence. Eur-bloody-reka!

Brilliant, I am getting more ideas. Thanks all again.

 

[sm1]

It's about making your website an adult playground, (no not in that sense!) but a place of fun

 

[LINGsCARS]

It's about making your website an adult playground, (no not in that sense!) but a place of fun

Yes Stef, yes. Exactly.

Who does that? No one.

Like a giant IKEA building with real people milling about inside (each with a virtual gps transponder as I know exactly where they are). Hovering over avatar people will show their vital stats (that I know). I can bribe first names and more, with this info and the stuff I can glean below...

For instance... look at the last entry, that's a customer looking at their Lingo system page, reading and posting like on a forum. What is interesting is they are on holiday in the Dominican Republic. The two above are at home/work in the UK. Of the two above that, one works for HP.

Look a bit further up and there are 4 x visitors from Google searchs - I know exactly what they were after when they arrived. You can see a civil servant from Worcester Tech who is not yet a customer, reading my blog, which is a blog post about a Corsa I added.

With all this stuff translated into English (and so much more in the whoson database, it is so good but in SQL and I am not so good at that), I can dump it to XML, broadcast it and build my "on the fly" dynamic pages.

Everything fine as long as whoson (dedicated server I have just bought) does not go down. If it does, just go with last known stats I guess.

Oh, f**k, this is do-able, I am so excited. This is a real new way of doing stuff.

 

[Judge_Joolz]

Something like 'Second Life', but restricted to the showroom!

JJ

 

[LINGsCARS]

Something like 'Second Life', but restricted to the showroom!

JJ

Yes, second-life, not half-life, hahaha. Oooops.

 

[sm1]

How about providing people with a personal showroom or their own 'garage' or something... I'm babbling as I'm confused in my own thoughts, but you can probably catch my draft these days

 

This is really the future. It is about THE PEOPLE, not the website or product! Other people build confidence. Eur-bloody-reka!

Brilliant, I am getting more ideas. Thanks all again.

Your target audience being children,I have to advise you that no one under the age of 17 is allowed to drive a motor vehicle in the UK.

So your conversion rate may be a tad low.

Suggest you sack your SEO guy (if you have one) and concentrate on getting more targeted visitors.

Repeats on Dave will not last for ever,being No 1 on google can do.

Earl

 

[wanabee]

Hi Ling,

I am very new this forum.

I like your idea and it reminds me of second life but with your site the stuff that happens will be in the real world and not in the reality world.

I think being able to track your visitors, and being able to see which route they take can only be good but I think an avator of you popping up could be quite off putting. However, if you give people the choice, i.e would you like the ling wizard to guide you through our showroom..??? that type of thing would be good plus its the customer choice.Though your site ill need to be changed around for this type of thing .
Creating a forum on your site is a bad idea as you want people buying and not chatting, hence I would think strongly think about the interactivity between customers.

The information you gather date of birth,email,insurance details etc,etc has enormous potential for cross selling...Broadband,house insurance,car servicing offers,car valeting, rac breakdown, as every house has more than one car these days.So someone else can avail of these car related deals.

Reminder emails from you if allowed by the customer like Your insurance is coming up for renewel..? Special deal on car valeting for month of december..? Merry christmas from all at lingscars..that type of thing you can then tie this in to each customers home area. All marketing and lots of potential here.Corporate newsletters then etc

I hope this helps

Regards,

 

Notice most of your positive comments are coming from the recently left school members.Who I doubt if they are in a position to swap there mark 1 fiesta's for one of your Audi's.As they spend all there pocket money on PS3 games.

Earl

 

[sm1]

Sorry no mark one fiesta's here and no PS3

She's after fun, and young people love fun so are extremely knowledgeable in the area of all things FUN

 

[wanabee]

Notice most of your positive comments are coming from the recently left school members.Who I doubt if they are in a position to swap there mark 1 fiesta's for one of your Audi's.As they spend all there pocket money on PS3 games.

Earl

Never assume anything my friend.

 

Sorry no mark one fiesta's here and no PS3

She's after fun, and young people love fun so are extremely knowledgeable in the area of all things FUN

sorry to disilution you but us old crusty's like to tickle the ribs a bit.

I reiterate young people are not Lings Target audience unless they are bankers of course.

maybe amongst Ding dongs favourite stats gathering hobby is the average age of her customers.?

Earl