ICAEW Members

[DuaneJackson]

What do you get out of your membership of the ICAEW and what does it cost you?

As an MD of an accounting software company, I probably shouldn't be sounding off about them, but I'm starting to get really annoyed with them. Annoyed on your behalf.

They're currently putting together a "IT Faculty Software Product Guide (SaaS)".

They say:

The aim of the guide is to provide accountants with the information they need to decide whether or not online accounting can benefit their business

If I were a member of this body I would expect the guide to contain impartial information about the various services available and their relative merits.

But what you're actually going to get is a guide that contains reviews of just the companies willing to pay the £3,500 to be reviewed. Hardly an impartial overview of the whole market.

It's not that I begrudge paying for a review. We may well get a reasonable ROI as it's not ludicrously expensive. I just find it a little disheartening that an organization that outwardly exists for the benefit of its members is ultimately more interested in making money from advertisers than providing relevant information to its members.

I've mentioned elsewhere my views on ICAEW accreditation. I was speaking to the MD of a much bigger accounting software company recently (who will remain nameless as you'd all instantly recognise the name). His comment summed it up perfectly: "You need two things to become ICAEW accredited - a person to tick all the boxes on the form and someone to write the cheque".

I suspect that if I wanted to, I could get ICAEW accreditation for a non-existent product.

Rant over. I hope that those of you that are ICAEW members can assure me the organization has some redeeming features.

 

[GaryMc]

I paid £272 to be able to put the letters ACA after my name. I don't really get any benefit other than that. I work outside of practice and rarely have anything to do with the Institute.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Duane - can see where you are coming from but having studied long and hard for those bloody exams (all be it years ago!) I will pay my fees whatever to put the initials after my name.

I think ICAEW accountants have enough brains to decide themselves if a software product is suitable for their needs and I for one would not be influenced or otherwise by an accreditation.

 

[Jenni384]

I think ICAEW accountants have enough brains to decide themselves if a software product is suitable for their needs and I for one would not be influenced or otherwise by an accreditation.

I'm not ICAEW but agree wholeheartedly with Elaine's comments.
I would have thought most accountants choose and recommend software on word of mouth and general experience, not what an institute chooses to recommend.

Duane, I sympathise with your rant, and you don't need accreditation to prove what we know already, which is that you have a great product

 

[DuaneJackson]

Thanks Jenni. I've already decided against the accreditation. It was the £3.5k for a review in their "guide" that annoyed me this time : )

 

[wood1e2]

So work around them. There are I am sure many "best of the year" awards especially now Christmas/New Year is coming up.

There are ones for software/online software/accounting software/niche accounting software.

if you can get in amonst one or more of them then ICAEW would have to report on your success...double bonus as you get them to advertise/report on you and you have not had to fork out £3.5/- for something that they should do free anyway!!!

 

[DuaneJackson]

There are ones for software/online software/accounting software/niche accounting software.

There are. We won one last year. And we're in the running for the same award plus a bigger one this year.

We don't have any problems getting coverage - I was just having a gripe about the ICAEW in general really.

 

[wood1e2]

So don't they report on best software etc? that is a way of getting back at them.

Obviously my idea falls down if they don't report on news item within their industry. then again if they don't report on it, maybe they are not providing a service to their members...

 

[DuaneJackson]

So don't they report on best software etc? that is a way of getting back at them.

They do, but "best" is a subjective term - and I think they define it as "the person willing to give us the most money"

 

[wood1e2]

Nightmare...so they don't even write unbiased news reports from within their sector...

I can see why you have a gripe!!!

 

[David Griffiths]

I'm an ICAEW member. On the grounds that if you can't find something good to say, it's best to say nothing, that's exactly what I'll do. It's also exactly what the Institute does for me and practitioners like me.

Their software accreditation scheme has long been a joke. I've used several accredited packages in the past which simply didn't deliver on promised spec. One was so poor that I even wrote to the Institute to point it out. They didn't give a stuff. I wonder what would happen if the cheque had bounced?

I also have a strong opinion as to the integrity of any "accreditation" that requires the payment of a fee. That's best left unsaid as well.

 

[wood1e2]

I also have a strong opinion as to the integrity of any "accreditation" that requires the payment of a fee. That's best left unsaid as well.

So even members don't speak out? Why? Why is it best left unsaid?

Do you not say anything in a restaurant when a beef is over done when rare was asked for? Or a bottle of wine is corked?

Surely the more of you that complain the more your association will do for you? I am not saying slag them off...I am saying constructive criticism.

How does the chef know he has done wrong if you don't speak out!!!

 

[Tom McClelland]

I’ve mentioned elsewhere my views on ICAEW accreditation. I was speaking to the MD of a much bigger accounting software company recently (who will remain nameless as you'd all instantly recognise the name). His comment summed it up perfectly: “You need two things to become ICAEW accredited – a person to tick all the boxes on the form and someone to write the cheque”.

I suspect that if I wanted to, I could get ICAEW accreditation for a non-existent product.

As the ex technical-director of an ERP supplier that achieved ICAEW accreditation I can confirm that a few years ago gaining that accreditation was a pure box-ticking exercise that said nothing about accuracy, robustness, or the general user experience. Gaining accreditation for a non-existent product would be an interesting exercise in investigative journalism. I don't object to paying a small administrative charge for a box-ticking exercise but I never saw quite what work the ICAEW was doing to justify the considerable fee.

Quite unlike the HMRC payroll accreditation,which is demanding and detailed, and extremely worthwhile.

But in our market, at the time, selling systems ERP at the £25k+ level to public-sector bodies that tend to be very risk averse the ICAEW accreditation was seen as an essential tick in the box when tendering despite the fact that it says nothing about the quality of the software.

 

[askm]

I'm an ACA and like Elaine, I worked jolly hard to get it Rightly or wrongly, there is a certain kudos, both with other accountants and with clients, in having the letters.

And no I'm not one of those ACAs who thinks that qualification is better than the ACCA. Far from it. My first mentor was an ACCA and he was the most sensible down-to-earth accountant I've ever known.

But I have to say that ICAEW accreditation for software products is not a watertight guarantee the product is perfect.

Does it involve any testing, with dummy or live data? Or is it really just a case of box ticking?

M

 

[DuaneJackson]

Does it involve any testing, with dummy or live data? Or is it really just a case of box ticking?

The latter.

 

[Jenni384]

The latter.

The latter plus a wodge of cash, I believe
Excellent accreditation

 

[GaryMc]

This comes from the ICAEW website - the current chosen evaluators are Baker Tilly

This is the link to some tax product evaluation

http://www.icaew.com/index.cfm/rout...re/Tax_Products_Accreditation_Scheme_software

This guide is for software companies considering joining the Accreditation Scheme.
Please also refer to benefits of joining the scheme for further information.
The evaluation and completion of the questionnaire

• The ICAEW Scheme Manager will send you a list of evaluators and the accreditation questionnaire. You will need to obtain and agree a quotation for the evaluation, appoint an evaluator and advise the ICAEW Scheme Manager and Technical Manager of your chosen evaluator and the date of the evaluation. You will then need to complete the Software House section of the questionnaire.
• On the agreed date, the evaluator will need to review a copy of the software and then complete the evaluator's section of the questionnaire and discuss any issues with you. You and the evaluator will then need to prepare the prologue and update the Accreditation Products grid.

Documentation review

• The evaluator will send the completed questionnaire and prologue to the ICAEW Technical Manager. The ICAEW Technical Manager will review the documents and discuss any queries or issues with the evaluator, who will then liaise with you. When all queries or issues are resolved, the questionnaire is finalised and signed off by the ICAEW Technical Manager.
• The ICAEW Scheme Manager will call you to confirm the accreditation and arrange a post evaluation meeting.

Post Evaluation Meeting

• Prior to the post evaluation meeting taking place, the ICAEW Scheme Manager will confirm the accreditation and date of the meeting in writing and enclose the accreditation contract and post evaluation questionnaire which will form the basis of the meeting. The meeting will review the content of the post evaluation questionnaire, explain the marketing package which supports the accreditation and answer any contract queries you may have.
• Once the contracts are signed and the accreditation fee is received (ideally at the meeting), the ICAEW logo and member data file will be supplied, your product details and completed questionnaire will be added to accreditation website at www.icaew.com/AccredIT and a certificate recognising your accreditation will be issued. This will all take place within 7 days.

Follow up process

• A follow up meeting will take place every 12 months in the 3 year contract period of the accreditation and these will be diarised and arranged by the ICAEW Scheme Manager.
• Products are normally re-evaluated every 3 years.

Cost

The contract is for 3 years and the accreditation fee is £5,000 per annum. The independent evaluators fee is negotiated between the software company and the evaluator and is paid directly to the evaluator.

 

[askm]

What would the evaluator do?

M

 

[DuaneJackson]

What would the evaluator do?

M

I assume they collect the cheque in person. And maybe make sure the boxes have been ticked in black ink instead of blue.

 

[GaryMc]

The software company fills in a questionnaire and sends it to the evaluator.

The evaluator then needs to sit down with the software and check that the answers given are correct.

The evaluator will also outline any areas in which the software does not match up to the standards required

 

[askm]

So the very idea of in-depth evaluation is merely a picture from the city of Cloud Cuckoo?

M

 

[DuaneJackson]

New Blog Post: ICAEW "Report" is just overpriced adverts