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Rumble Bee

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Mar 25, 2026
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I am part owner of a premises. There are three of us (family). I will call us A, B and C (me). A and B run businesses from the premises. I worked for B but that relationship broke down and I felt pressured to leave. Myself and 'A' have an agreement which benefits me, 'B' pays nothing. We are not on speaking terms. 'A' has tried to speak to 'B' about a rent but they are not co-operating.

There is no room for me at the premises as working with 'B' would be a nightmare. I would like to start a new business meaning I would have to rent a premises.

My options would be to offer my third for sale, giving me a lump sum for investment or go after a rent from 'B'.

I have estimated that a rent may generate £500 per month.

My question is how do I go about any of this. I don't think A and B would be able to raise the money to buy me out together. B might be able to but that could shaft A.
Who would I need to contact about getting rent and what sort of costs would I incur? I do not want any contact with B.

I really do not know where to start but at the moment I am in limbo with this property.
 
Chris Ashdown said:
What makes you think your shares are worth anything, maybe if you explain what the company does you will get better response
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Not shares. Part ownership of the land where two businesses operate. In theory I should be able to have use of a third of the land. This is not possible so I am being denied the use and receiving no benefit.
 
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Get the lease out and see what it says about rent. Everything you want to do begins with the lease. Which is why you need to talk to @The Resolver
 
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fisicx said:
Get the lease out and see what it says about rent. Everything you want to do begins with the lease. Which is why you need to talk to @The Resolver
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Not sure there is a lease.

If the three of people own the property and B is using his part, why would any rent be payable to C?

If part of the property still available to C, but C doesnt want to use it because of B, how does this create a liability for B?

Selling could be hard as only selling 1/3 unless the boundaries are clearly defined?
 
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NickGrogan said:
Not sure there is a lease.
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There must be some documents stating who own what. If there are buildings on the land there will be more documents (usually a lease). There will be contracts regarding utilities and so on.

And there must be something at the land registry showing the boundaries.

Start with the documentation and follow the trails.
 
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One way i was thinking was to propose a sit-down like grown-ups in order to come to an agreement (putting it on paper from that point onward), and if that idea is rejected, then fallback to writing formal letters, with some legal help, on the basis of exercising whatever rights are available. There must be some document that relates to the OP's comment of "I am part owner of a premises." that could unlock something.
 
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The land is part commercial and part grazing. Left to the three of us by our mother. I am the youngest.

Whilst our mother was still alive, and I was still in education, the others set up businesses there. I helped both to establish.

After a while I joined with 'B' and we built the 'B' business. I took a lot of stress during this time. The business remained in 'B's name and I was always made to feel that my contribution was insignificant although they would not have survived without me. To me, family came first. I was happy to work and draw a wage. When relations fell apart I left as things got so toxic.

I am now left, basically, with no access to use the site, as the other businesses take up all the space, and no income from the site. 'A' did approach 'B' about paying something but they were not having any part of it, refusing to even talk. I would be happy to have an agreement where we all pay rent for the use. As I am not using the premises I get the money, the others get theirs in lieu of each other.

As 'B' wouldn't even talk about this has left me looking at my options. This is why I am exploring what I would have to do legally to force a solution.
 
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I’m really not sure you have any options. You chose to leave the business and without the necessary documents your claims to the land may be tenuous.

The laws pertaining to land and how it is used are notoriously complicated. You need to engage a suitable solicitor. But they won’t be cheap.
 
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EnterprisePro said:
One way i was thinking was to propose a sit-down like grown-ups in order to come to an agreement
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Except B is refusing any interaction and C has said they don't want any contact with B. Which suggest it's going to need mediation.
 
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fisicx said:
Except B is refusing any interaction and C has said they don't want any contact with B. Which suggest it's going to need mediation.
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It's really to give one last opportunity before taking it further (with an audit trail), but better if its requested via email and with some time window given, before official routes are taken (i,e. formal letter stating next steps etc.), but it depends on the strength and clauses of the land ownership documents and what rights can be exercised.

It's just a thought. I'm no lawyer, but I think its worth the OP checking their copy of the land documents themselves.
 
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If you worked for B as an employee and B did not pay you rent as one of the owners, nothing much has changed now that you have left his employ.
 
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fisicx said:
The deeds are your starting point. Are there documents covering the buildings and their use?
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The property was passed down into our three names a long time ago. The buildings have commercial planning for their use which the majority were built by our parents. 'A' and 'B' have invested into the property using the property as collateral, to benefit their businesses. At the end of the day the buildings are still ageing and not being 100% maintained.

We had always worked as a family. No agreements, just what has always been. What I need to know is my rights. As I am not using the property and have no way of using the property, can I insist that I would like some benefit from said property. The others are benefitting from the property. 'A' is in agreement that I should benefit.
 
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Your rights are what is written down in the deeds and other documents.

Unless rent is expressly defined all you have is one third ownership which can keep or sell.
 
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As one of the owners you have rights, but I cannot see you exercising those rights, unless the two other owners want to alter the property or sell it. Despite what others have said above, I think solicitors can help you now, even if it is just to explain exactly what rights that you do have.

PS there is usually a strict hierarchy in a family and you being the youngest of the three owner will undoubtedly be at the bottom if of it. You cannot change that, so you have to be clever and sure of your ground before taking any action., if you decide to take any action.
 
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Gecko001 said:
As one of the owners you have rights, but I cannot see you exercising those rights, unless the two other owners want to alter the property or sell it. Despite what others have said above, I think solicitors can help you now, even if it is just to explain exactly what rights that you do have.

PS there is usually a strict hierarchy in a family and you being the youngest of the three owner will undoubtedly be at the bottom if of it. You cannot change that, so you have to be clever and sure of your ground before taking any action., if you decide to take any action.
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Thank you. This makes sense. I was hoping that there would be a legal eagle here that could tell me if there was scope to this and what type of solicitor I would need if possible. Looks like I have no recourse and they will sit on the land with me pushed out as usual.
 
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Talking about solutions for running a business from the premises is starting in the wrong place. If the land was given to the brothers by your late mother then the first step is to clarify whether Probate has yet been granted (searching the Registry) and then if the transfer of the land has been fully completed and in what way as if not then an approach to the Executor(s) is the next step.

At that point, with full knowledge of the situation, mediation is the solution with all being helped to understand that delay benefits no-one. If they do not buy you out now they will simply have to pay much more in the future as values rise.

Call me (no charge)
 
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The Resolver said:
Talking about solutions for running a business from the premises is starting in the wrong place. If the land was given to the brothers by your late mother then the first step is to clarify whether Probate has yet been granted (searching the Registry) and then if the transfer of the land has been fully completed and in what way as if not then an approach to the Executor(s) is the next step.

At that point, with full knowledge of the situation, mediation is the solution with all being helped to understand that delay benefits no-one. If they do not buy you out now they will simply have to pay much more in the future as values rise.
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Thank you for your input.

The land was transferred to us many years ago, long before our mother's passing. I am looking for options to utilize my assets. It basically is land that we joint own but I am not getting any benefit from it and may never in my lifetime. All I see is the others benefitting while I am struggling to keep my head above water. I could do with some sort of income from it or sell it.

I was looking at if I can force a rent and how? or do I sell. Maybe I could add a caveat in case they get unrestricted commercial / residential building at a later date? Also I would need to figure out if there would be capital gains to pay.
 
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Rent from whom? You can only rent out your third. And if this is not defined in the documents it difficult to see how you could make this work.

Even selling is going to be tricky unless you can mark out the boundaries.
 
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Rumble Bee said:
Thank you for your input.

The land was transferred to us many years ago, long before our mother's passing. I am looking for options to utilize my assets. It basically is land that we joint own but I am not getting any benefit from it and may never in my lifetime. All I see is the others benefitting while I am struggling to keep my head above water. I could do with some sort of income from it or sell it.

I was looking at if I can force a rent and how? or do I sell. Maybe I could add a caveat in case they get unrestricted commercial / residential building at a later date? Also I would need to figure out if there would be capital gains to pay.
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Have you tried Land Registry? They might just tell you what you already know, but at least it is a good start. The rent option is probably only viable if the three of you are reconciled, and you come some arrangement, or if you could get A on your side and have A to convince B to come to an arrangement regarding rent.

To be honest this is really a personal matter as it appears that all the parties involved are people. The fact that there are businesses on the land is a side issue.

BTW, most verbal agreements are binding, but those involving land are not binding in law.
 
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AI Response:

Scenario 2: The other co-owners are occupying the building
If the other 2/3 owners are living in or using the building exclusively for themselves, you cannot physically evict them, but you can demand "Occupation Rent". [1]
    • Establish Ouster or Exclusion: To legally enforce rent against co-owners, you must demonstrate that you are effectively "ousted" or excluded from enjoying your share of the property. [1, 2, 3]
    • Calculate Market Value: Determine the open-market rental value of the entire building. Your demand will be exactly 1/3 of that total market rate. [1, 2, 3]
    • Demand Occupational Rent: Send a formal letter demanding they pay you this occupational rent for using your portion of the asset. [1]
    • Enforce via TOLATA: If they refuse to pay or compromise, your primary legal tool is Section 14 of the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act 1996 (TOLATA). You can apply to the court to either force them to pay rent or compel a sale of the property so you can cash out your 1/3 share.
 
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In Savage v Savage [2024] EWCA Civ 49 the Court of Appeal considered the correct interpretation of section 15(3) of ToLATA and whether, when making an order under section 14 (where there is a dispute), the court is entitled to have regard to the circumstances and wishes of the minority beneficiaries
 
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But… the OP left voluntarily. The fell out with a sibling and chose not to return. That’s the bit that may block a demand for rent.
 
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UK Contractor Accountant said:
AI Response:

Scenario 2: The other co-owners are occupying the building
If the other 2/3 owners are living in or using the building exclusively for themselves, you cannot physically evict them, but you can demand "Occupation Rent".
    • Establish Ouster or Exclusion: To legally enforce rent against co-owners, you must demonstrate that you are effectively "ousted" or excluded from enjoying your share of the property.
    • Calculate Market Value: Determine the open-market rental value of the entire building. Your demand will be exactly 1/3 of that total market rate.
    • Demand Occupational Rent: Send a formal letter demanding they pay you this occupational rent for using your portion of the asset.
    • Enforce via TOLATA: If they refuse to pay or compromise, your primary legal tool is Section 14 of the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act 1996 (TOLATA). You can apply to the court to either force them to pay rent or compel a sale of the property so you can cash out your 1/3 share.
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Thank you.

This is basically what I am trying to work out. Looks like I need a valuation done for starters. Anyone know the best way forward on this? Do I just go to someone like Cheffins or is there a better route?
 
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Rumble Bee said:
This is basically what I am trying to work out. Looks like I need a valuation done for starters. Anyone know the best way forward on this? Do I just go to someone like Cheffins or is there a better route?
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Talk to Graham AKA @The Resolver. Best place I know where to start the ball rolling.
 
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You have many recommendations in this chat.

I would start as follows:
If possible, separate the property ownership from the business(es)

Businesses
  • it is often the case that business owners promise or hint at sharing a business, but without any written proof / emails etc. I don't think your claim is strong. You were paid a wage, and you may just have to settle for that.
  • any contribution to the maintenance of the property could carry more weight than your contribution to the business of A or B
  • A and B used the property as collateral for their businesses - it would be very hard to motivate the value of the 'collateral', see also property below.
Property
  • documents: find copies of everything. Most importantly, find documented proof of what you own.
    • which rights are written, and which are assumed
    • usage records: create a map of the property, and document who is using each are, dates etc
  • valuation: commission RICS valuation for
    • open market value
    • value with any proposed planning prospects
    • rental value - per section (if practical)
    • poss. use value of property as stated in the collateral documents
  • communicate: tell A and B in writing what you want. State your preferences
    • sale - give both A and B an option to buy you out (jointly or individually)
    • rental - eg based on current (usage x value), or
    • reasonable right to use
    • state your intention
      • to resolve amicably, and
      • use TOLATA only if necessary
  • work out what your costs will be.
    • You could use a solicitor to help you draft / send the letter to A+B
    • research court fees for TOLATA
    • if you consider any no-win-no-fee lawyers... they may take 30-50% of the win!!
    • You will not be able to claim legal costs from A/B even if you win
    • You may incur capital gains tax if you sell
In my opinion; the planning value uplift is theoretical... and in the absence of collaboration between all parties not likely to occur before you resolve the usage.

Consider using a local Citizen Advice office, mainly as a first stop and navigator, not as the firm that will run a TOLATA / occupation-rent case.
 
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The starting point is that if you own the property with A and B then you are technically `trustees for sale'. What that means in practical terms is that joint owners of land are legally presumed to be holding it with a view to its sale.

You will almost certainly also own it as `tenants-in-common'. This has nothing to do with tenancies in the usual sense of the word - it just means that you each own a distinct share in the land (one third unless you have documents saying otherwise).

Because of the legal presumption that joint owners want to sell the land the courts will, in principle, order a sale where one joint owner wishes to cease being a joint owner. The application is made under the Trusts of Land and Appointment of Trustees Act 1994 (`TOLATA').

In practical terms most situations like this end up with the co-owner who wants out selling his share to the other co-owners, and this would seem to be the sensible solution here.

The first step is therefore to write to your co-owners, saying that as you are receiving no benefit from your ownership you wish the land to be sold, so you can realise the value of your share. The letter would say that you are, in principle, willing to sell your share to A and B, and that if they want to negotiate they should make you an offer.

Although it's very unlikely that they would just respond immediately with an offer it should at least trigger a response so that valuations can be obtained with a view to starting serious negotiations. But you are actually in a fairly strong position, as if they don't make you a sensible offer you have the ultimate sanction of applying to the Court for a TOLATA order, with a strong possibility of A and B having to pay your legal costs if they have behaved unreasonably, for example by refusing to make you a realistic offer.
 
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