Is Britain more powerful than America?

[SEODEV#338055]

Often debated with pals on both side of our shared murky pond who is ultimately more powerful, The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and BOTs (British Overseas Territories) versus The United States of America and Territories of the United States of America?

This isn't a purely miltary question, though our special forces are often touted as far superior to our American cousins, most notably The Special Boat Service, The Special Air Service, The Royal Marines and The Pathfinders, America clearly has a more powerful military arsenal at its disposal, and both countries have nuclear weaponry

The City of London is arguably the financial capital of the entire world, standing smack bang in the middle of the world's trading day, overlapping 27 markets, managing £8.5 trillion in assets

England has the most popular league (The Premier League) in the world's most popular sport (Football/Soccer)

The UK has four of the world's top 10 ranked universities, University of Oxford (2nd), University of Cambridge (joint 3rd), Imperial College London (7th), University College London (joint 8th)

The population difference cannot be discounted 330 million for US versus 67 million for UK, however population size has historically not been a deciding factor is global might

 

[fisicx]

Does it matter? Does anybody really care?

The first part of the argument should be: what do you mean by powerful? That debate could go on for weeks.

 

[Ozzy]

The City of London is arguably the financial capital of the entire world, standing smack bang in the middle of the world's trading day, overlapping 27 markets, managing £8.5 trillion in assets

I would argue how much of that financial trade is money laundering, the UK is often touted as the money laundering capital of the world too. Then again, depends what tax haven states we compare to.

England has the most popular league (The Premier League) in the world's most popular sport (Football/Soccer)

Did you just forget Rugby?

 

[SEODEV#338055]

Does it matter? Does anybody really care?

The first part of the argument should be: what do you mean by powerful? That debate could go on for weeks.

Do you care?

If you care, did you vote? Was it meh? ?

If you don't care, why did you respond?

Surely a healthy forum has healthy debate on a wide range of issues?

This is a UK business forum and the question is related to UK business

If nobody cares then nobody will reply

 

[fisicx]

The question of power is relative. Does a sport give one power? The existence of a special forces regiment doesn’t give you power.

I’m all for healthy debate but the question you ask doesn’t make any sense unless you define how power is measured.

 

[SEODEV#338055]

I’m all for healthy debate but the question you ask doesn’t make any sense unless you define how power is measured.

Power can be measured in many ways

The question was about overall power US versus UK

 

[fisicx]

It’s still relative. For example, The US is not a major soccer nation so you can’t really compare this ‘power’. One could argue the US sporting power overall is greater than the UK in terms of wealth or medal score but it’s not a good measure.

And while London may be a major financial centre as @Ozzy said this may be for dodgy cash. And the US dollar is still a worldwide standard, Sterling isn’t. So you can’t compare financial power as they aren’t the same.

 

[Mark T Jones]

A very broad question, with extremely selective 'evidence'.

As a trading nation, US are certainly more powerfull.

For tech & innovation they are streets ahead.

In fighting, they are more powerful by numbers (so depends very much on the nature of the war)

 

[NickGrogan]

The Taliban beat America in Afganistan with not much more than a few old pickup trucks.

Isis beat America in Iraq with some school kids and a super market security guard.

They completely failed to stop Syria doing whatever they wanted to do, despite the "red" lines.

On that basis, I'd say America's military power might be a bit overrated.

When was the last time they won a war?

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Britain is the most powerful country in the world at the moment because it is run by a crazy nutcase who wants to be Winston Churchill. The Russians know this and wont push it too far

 

[Paul Norman]

Although, like most places, if you don't live there it does not seem very important.

 

[IanSuth]

The Taliban beat America in Afganistan with not much more than a few old pickup trucks.

Isis beat America in Iraq with some school kids and a super market security guard.

They completely failed to stop Syria doing whatever they wanted to do, despite the "red" lines.

On that basis, I'd say America's military power might be a bit overrated.

When was the last time they won a war?

Those are both examples of the US trying to win an invasion - not the same as trying to win a war.

You can't win over a populace with just a bunch of guns, you can beat an army with them

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

It’s still relative. For example, The US is not a major soccer nation so you can’t really compare this ‘power’. One could argue the US sporting power overall is greater than the UK in terms of wealth or medal score but it’s not a good measure.

Soccer is 5th on the list of the most popular sports in the US and with nearly 25 million participants, dwarfs the 2 million playing here in the UK. Their problem is the balls the wrong shape and they want to hit it with something, be it a bat, a club or a racquet.

However, the equation used in combat sports is Speed + Strength = Power. The US has strength but does it have agility?
The next Presidential Election will probably start in a week or so's time.?

 

[MBE2017]

People seem to have missed the Super Bowl off the sporting list, plus the Olympics. As mentioned it depends on your definition of power, for military, political, trade, financial and sports, they slaughter the UK, plus almost every other country at present.

The Chinese might be catching them up on trade, financial power etc, but still lags seriously behind from a military point of view. Of course, the Chinese might be happier to use nuclear weapons in a conflict, so that advantage is then taken away.

 

[The Byre]

The question is a joke, right?

Two-thirds of the world's inward investments go to the US. The military is more than ten times the size of the very diminished UK military. US intelligence and control is embedded into GCHQ and the UK's nuclear arsenal. The 'Pathfinders' is just a silly name for a shadow of what was once three large parachute battalions and a large reservist battalion. The UK sports industry is about one-third of the size of the giant US sports industry, where even college teams can have their own TV channels.

The US is enormously powerful and nearly all that power is commercial. From computer systems to phones, from water distribution to financials, American companies and systems dominate. You are using US systems to view this message, US platforms to sell or buy online. To compare the two countries is to compare a mouse with a Great Dane.

Britain really does still have silly ideas of grandeur that bear no resemblance to reality.

It has an oil company that plays upon the world stage, BP. Two if we are to include Royal Dutch Shell. Beyond that, it has a handful of largish companies that operate internationally, but they are minnows when compared to the giants of the world. For example, Britain no longer even has any indigenous car industry, no indigenous white goods industry (other than Dyson) and the City of London financial industry is merely a satellite to NY exchanges, which account for over 60% of all financial movements in the world.

Every time Britain gets good at something like Formula One or some silly football team, an American or some Russian oligarch comes and buys it with some money they found down the back of the sofa. Once proud UK car companies are bought by the Germans or the French as part of much larger deals and merely as side-hustles and reduced to screwdriver factories.

Why is this? What happened? Why is the nation of lions now led in the company boardrooms and parliamentary benches by donkeys? What the F happened?

 

[NickGrogan]

Those are both examples of the US trying to win an invasion - not the same as trying to win a war.

You can't win over a populace with just a bunch of guns, you can beat an army with them

They called it a war, they said they won.

 

[japancool]

We do, however, lead the world in cricket.

Oh wait, no we don't. Unless it's played in a single day. And even then.

 

[NickGrogan]

People seem to have missed the Super Bowl off the sporting list, plus the Olympics. As mentioned it depends on your definition of power, for military, political, trade, financial and sports, they slaughter the UK, plus almost every other country at present.

The Chinese might be catching them up on trade, financial power etc, but still lags seriously behind from a military point of view. Of course, the Chinese might be happier to use nuclear weapons in a conflict, so that advantage is then taken away.

Not sure about that

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[japancool]

or example, Britain no longer even has any indigenous car industry

I believe Aston Martin and McLaren are still British.

 

[The Byre]

I believe Aston Martin and McLaren are still British.

Both foreign-owned.

 

[MBE2017]

Hypersonic weapons are coming, the Russians seem to be in the lead, but you would need thousands to have any real effect on the US military, which is huge. The Americans won’t be too far behind, if at all.

All that reverse engineering of UFO’s should be bearing fruit around now.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Hypersonic weapons are coming, the Russians seem to be in the lead, but you would need thousands to have any real effect on the US military, which is huge. The Americans won’t be too far behind, if at all.

All that reverse engineering of UFO’s should be bearing fruit around now.

The Chinese are the biggest threat with their cyber intelligence capabilities the biggest concern.

 

[STDFR33]

When was the last time they won a war?

Watch a Hollywood film. They win every war.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

The Chinese are the biggest threat with their cyber intelligence capabilities the biggest concern.

Mods can you please edit.

I meant China, not 'the Chinese'...

 

[NickGrogan]

Hypersonic weapons are coming, the Russians seem to be in the lead, but you would need thousands to have any real effect on the US military, which is huge. The Americans won’t be too far behind, if at all.

All that reverse engineering of UFO’s should be bearing fruit around now.

Russia and China already have Hypersonic weapons, the USA has none. You don't need that many to have a big impact.

Combine that with the cyber security lead that Russia and China has and America looks pretty weak.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Russia and China already have Hypersonic weapons, the USA has none. You don't need that many to have a big impact.

Combine that with the cyber security lead that Russia and China has and America looks pretty weak.

I read that the US are developing new technology, with far greater accuracy that can be used in conventional warfare and give greater strategic ability, whereas others are adapting old tech that can carry nuclear warheads, the use of which would see all out nuclear war.

 

[fisicx]

The next war is already being fought. But over the internet and through finance. China doesn’t need to fight a conventional war, it already owns or controls much of the world. They regard the USA as a weak nation.

 

[MBE2017]

Well over the years many countries have fallen into the trap that the UK, USA etc are weak willed, only to find out when tested their people are willing to fight and die.

Economically, no one is looking great atm, China has just as much debt as most, they simply do not openly declare it. When the big recession hits, and it will, China will suffer just as much as anyone.

 

[The Byre]

Nations do tend to fail to truly understand other nations. The US does this less than others as they have so many immigrants who speak other languages first. Very often, people just assume that someone is all-American or a true Brit just because they sound and look like that. Many Americans who appear and sound as American as apple pie, actually have German, Spanish, Russian or whatever, as their first language.

I remember talking to a US publisher at a trade fair in Amsterdam and a German friend rocked up and we started rabbiting on in German. I then introduced my friend to the publisher in English and apologised for speaking in German.

"Ne, ne, ist gut!" he said in accent-free German. "Eigentlich ist Deutsch meine Muttersprache!"

But never underestimate America. They may have had a few doofus presidents, but their companies can turn on a dime and change direction in a heartbeat and they are brave and investors will back new ideas and new technologies in ways that no other nation ever does. That is why their technology permeates every nation on Earth, Russia, China and even North Korea included!

Whether it's a new type of electric car like the Aptera or a new gold mine like Cassiar Gold, in the US you can raise $100m by making a good case for a RoI. I've earned money by backing Americans.

 

[Deleted member 335660]

Often debated with pals on both side of our shared murky pond who is ultimately more powerful, The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and BOTs (British Overseas Territories) versus The United States of America and Territories of the United States of America?

This isn't a purely miltary question, though our special forces are often touted as far superior to our American cousins, most notably The Special Boat Service, The Special Air Service, The Royal Marines and The Pathfinders, America clearly has a more powerful military arsenal at its disposal, and both countries have nuclear weaponry

The City of London is arguably the financial capital of the entire world, standing smack bang in the middle of the world's trading day, overlapping 27 markets, managing £8.5 trillion in assets

England has the most popular league (The Premier League) in the world's most popular sport (Football/Soccer)

The UK has four of the world's top 10 ranked universities, University of Oxford (2nd), University of Cambridge (joint 3rd), Imperial College London (7th), University College London (joint 8th)

The population difference cannot be discounted 330 million for US versus 67 million for UK, however population size has historically not been a deciding factor is global might

I have some knowledge of the military and served in the RAF so I whilst I agree our special services are probably the best, the military would not stand a chance against the USA in a war as it has been decimated over the years by Government reductions.

Our Premiiier League May be the most popular but most of the players are not British anyway.

As mentioned for Universities that is a big subject and which table you look at. The Times Education supplement puts Oxford at the top and the London ones outside the top 10.

The ones you have mentioned are mainly there due to history, money from research and donations more than their the quality of their teaching.

As for finance and business London is well known for its money laundering scams and UK business is now dominated by USA, China and Europe.

It is interesting how we seem so interested in our relationship with those 3,000 miles of “murky” water away, yet cannot get on with our neighbours. 30 miles away

 

[MBE2017]

It is interesting how we seem so interested in our relationship with those 3,000 miles of “murky” water away, yet cannot get on with our neighbours. 30 miles away

Maybe we get on better with the USA since that act more as friends than our closer geographical neighbours do? The UK public voted to leave the EU, not Europe. More political murky opinions rather than actual fact?

I have lived and worked in Germany, Italy, Sweden and France over the years, and personally find people remarkably similar, they just want to be happy in life. I get on with everyone who treats myself fairly, and that seems to be a universal trait, whoever you are or wherever you live.

 

[MikeJ]

deleted

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

It is interesting how we seem so interested in our relationship with those 3,000 miles of “murky” water away, yet cannot get on with our neighbours. 30 miles away

I don't think they've ever forgiven us for Agincourt

 

[japancool]

The French never wanted Britain in the EU in the first place. They blocked Britain's entry twice.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

The question is a joke, right?

Must be. Has he forgotton that the UK voted to leave the world's biggest trading block and become an insignificant offshore island?

 

[alan1302]

Maybe we get on better with the USA since that act more as friends than our closer geographical neighbours do? The UK public voted to leave the EU, not Europe. More political murky opinions rather than actual fact?

Expect it's more down to the common language more than anything...and I think there are plenty of people that think EU and Europe are the same thing.

 

[Fagin2021]

<rant>
It always makes me sad when a British Prime Minister stands up and says 'Britain is still a world power' or 'On the global stage, Great Britain punches above its weight'. It usually means we're going to get involved in some foreign war.

No, we're, not. No, we don't. In Palmerston's' 'send a gunboat' day, the word of a British Foreign Secretary counted. Then it was ignored. Now it's laughed at. By slavishly tying ourselves to the coat-tails of American foreign policy, we've lost the diplomatic influence we once had through our historic connections with other countries.

On any reasonable measure of 'power' - military, economic, diplomatic - there's no debate to be had. We're not in the same park as the USA, never mind the same game.

And don't get me started on the cricket!
</rant>

 

[japancool]

By slavishly tying ourselves to the coat-tails of American foreign policy, we've lost the diplomatic influence we once had through our historic connections with other countries.

That all went down the tube when we decided to ditch the Commonwealth for the EU.

 

[fisicx]

That all went down the tube when we decided to ditch the Commonwealth for the EU.

Or ditch the Empire for the Commonwealth.

 

[japancool]

Or ditch the Empire for the Commonwealth.

Had no choice on that one.