“Made to order” no returns policy

[Atidrep]

I have just started a tiny clothing business making dresses in London. I only make to order, ie I only make a dress when I receive the order. This is very clear on my website and in my returns policy I have specified that because this dress is only made upon request, not a stock item, I cannot accept returns. They are not bespoke dresses, I have a sizing chart on my website that details very clearly the sizes of my dresses.
I now have a very rude and threatening customer demanding to return her dress”because it didn’t suit her” and I’ve refused to supply the return address because my T&C’s specify no returns. She is threatening me with legal action and now claiming that the zip is faulty which is mysterious as she hadn’t mentioned that before. She admitted she had not read the T&Cs but is threatening to blacken my name and I’m very upset. Am I right or is she? Thanks so much

 

[kulture]

Did you provide a copy of your terms in an email when the order was placed? Do you have a tick box or equivalent that the customer ticked when placing the order saying that they had read the terms and agreed?

 

[Atidrep]

Did you provide a copy of your terms in an email when the order was placed? Do you have a tick box or equivalent that the customer ticked when placing the order saying that they had read the terms and agreed?

I tried to have a tick box on my square space website but couldn’t work out how to add it. On the receipt email and on every page of my website it says in capital letters at the top, purchase confirms agreement to our T&Cs

thanks so much for any advice!

 

[Atidrep]

Also she is now claiming that the zip was faulty when she had undone the zip to try the dress on, done it up, undone it to her it off, and upon doing it up again she claims the zip wedged. Does that constitute faulty goods? She successfully used the zip 3 times so it was not faulty on receipt. I offer repair or exchange for faults, not refund. Is this legal? Bless you thank you.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

I only make to order,

They are not bespoke dresses,

What are they then?

If bespoke (made to order) the Sale of Goods Act is on your side!

 

[kulture]

Ok, based on what you say, I would say that she has a case. As the dress is just made to a size why not just swallow your pride and take it back?

 

[Atidrep]

They are not made to her specifications, they are made to the specifications published on my website. These are not generic UK sizes but specific to the style of dress I make ie, the shoulders might be puffed, the waist might be loose, the hips might be fitted depending on the style of dress. So they are not bespoke as in she hasn’t provided me with her measurements, but they are made to order ie I only make the dress upon receipt of the order and they are asked to check their size very carefully as I cannot offer returns. However for her, sizing has never been the issue, it’s that it didn’t suit her and now the mysterious faulty zip which was fine the first 3 times she used it...

 

[Atidrep]

Ok, based on what you say, I would say that she has a case. As the dress is just made to a size why not just swallow your pride and take it back?

Because it took me 6 days to make and the fabric cost me lots of money, and I could have fulfilled an order from another client in a larger size if I hadn’t used the fabric up on her order...

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Either get it returned and refund it or repair it!

 

[Atidrep]

Either get it returned and refund it or repair it!

Can I send her a zip and £30 for the repair and she can get it done? She is incredibly aggressive and threatening. I don’t really want her to know where I live and once she has my address she will just be able to send it back if I return it.

 

[kulture]

It’s the consumer contracts regulations that apply. They replaced the distance selling regulations in 2014. The regulations require a certain level of information to be sent to the consumer. The made to order exemption may not apply if you fail to properly notify the customer.

 

[Socio South West]

Edit... Was unaware of the DSR being replaced as posted by @kulture

 

[Atidrep]

Is there a sales of goods act somewhere I can refer to and read? This is my whole business model and if I’m going to come up against this every time then I will have to rethink and re-write my T&Cs. It’s all part of the slow fashion/ no waste movement, trying to counter the awful buy and try on at home and return ASOS culture...

 

[Atidrep]

Wow that’s very helpful thanks I will read that now. Any thoughts on this broken zip claim? She used is successfully 3 times!! Is it still my fault if it jammed on the fourth use?

 

[kulture]

Not providing an address is another failure. By not knowing the law you have jeopardise your otherwise strong position.

the sales of goods act has been replaced by the consumer rights act. The distance selling by the consumer contracts regulations.

whilst it is a clear exemption to the non fault return by having made to order, your poor delivery of the contract information could invalidate this.

likewise as the customer now says that there is a fault you have no choice but to repair, replace or refund

 

[kulture]

You would be better off reading current rules https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations-ajWHC8m21cAk rather than the ones that expired in 2014. And read all of them not just the return paragraph

 

[Socio South West]

This 'Which' article covers the Consumer Contracts Regulations, including a section on when returns rights do not apply. https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/distance-selling-regulations-aAijb9Q8UT3V

The fact that your customer is changing her story suggests she is just making a fuss for the sake of it. In reality unless she is a serial blogger, journo or person of other influence a whinge on Social media or the like is soon going to be buried and gone, and unlikely to affect your business to any degree,

 

[Atidrep]

I work from home and deliberately didn’t put my address on my site because of that. Also spam Mail. Is it a legal requirement? Thanks so much you’ve all been so helpful.

I’m happy to repair but I don’t want her having my home address or claiming my repair was faulty again. I’d prefer to pay her to get it done then they can be to blame of the zip “breaks” again.

 

[Atidrep]

Do any of you kind people know where I can find a definitive answer on this? So I contact Trading Standards? I’ve been awake all night fretting about this but equally want to stand up to her. It was very clear it was made to order upon receipt of her purchase, it takes 3 weeks to manufacture etc...

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

Anything bespoke or made to order always has a no return policy provided it was made to specification.

If she has had too many doughnuts since she placed the order with you that is her problem !

If you contact trading standards for advice on this you will open up a can of worms because they will probably find something else wrong that has nothing to do with the issue that we are concerning ourselves with !

 

[MikeJ]

A zip breaking after three uses isn't really good enough. You can't hide behind "well it worked when you got it", can you?

 

[WaveJumper]

Is your business website legal?
·company name.
·registered number.
·place of registration.
·registered office address.
·contact details, including an email address.
·details of how to contact business by non-electronic means.
·the VAT number of business, if applicable.
·details of any trade body or regulator registration.

Your invoice must include:
·a unique identification number.
·your company name, address and contact information.
·the company name and address of the customer you're invoicing.
·a clear description of what you're charging for.
·the date the goods or service were provided (supply date)
·the date of the invoice.

So why does your customer not know your address?

 

[cjd]

Call her bluff and ask her to return the dress to repair the zip. I know you don't want to give an address but unless you fully refund you're going to have to (and then you'll lose the dress as well).

If you have a solicitor or accountant you could use that as a one-off 'care of' address but legally you have to provide a real trading address for online trading. These kind of issues always arise when you're a tiny business without procedures, cash and people - you just have to find ways of dealing with them pragmatically. It can be tough but you need to build a reputation and you can only do that in your kind of very personal service business by handling customers professionally.

Her threat to rubbish you online is a common one that you're going to have to get used to - generally it's best to swallow your pride and just do your best to make her happy. In this case it may not be possible without giving her exactly what she wants so you'll have to weigh it up.
But first, call her bluff and offer a repair, she might just right it off.

I would also look at your ordering process. We've learned that some nightmare customers only read what the want to read and always conveniently forget what they've agreed to if it suits them. For those terms in a contract that are really important for them to understand - like your 'no returns' policy - we have a pop-up box explaining what they're about to agree to with a 'yes' 'no' box to click on just before they press buy. We keep that answer in the oder history so there can be no future argument. You'll still have 'discussions' about it and you'll still have to try to keep your customer happy, but you will at least have the facts on your side.

Good luck!

 

[NickGrogan]

She used is successfully 3 times!! Is it still my fault if it jammed on the fourth use?

Are you seriously trying to claim that a zip should only work 3 times?

They are not made to her specifications, they are made to the specifications published on my website.

So they are not made to order, they're made when you get an order. They are not therefore bespoke and your clients have every right to return without giving a reason.

On the receipt email and on every page of my website it says in capital letters at the top, purchase confirms agreement to our T&Cs

Did you provide the client with access to the terms and conditions before they ordered. They cannot agree to something that they haven't seen.

Are your terms and conditions legal - it sounds like they might not be.

 

[Duke Fame]

They are not made to her specifications, they are made to the specifications published on my website. These are not generic UK sizes but specific to the style of dress I make ie, the shoulders might be puffed, the waist might be loose, the hips might be fitted depending on the style of dress. So they are not bespoke as in she hasn’t provided me with her measurements, but they are made to order ie I only make the dress upon receipt of the order and they are asked to check their size very carefully as I cannot offer returns. However for her, sizing has never been the issue, it’s that it didn’t suit her and now the mysterious faulty zip which was fine the first 3 times she used it...

It's bespoke as far as the sale of Goods act goes.

 

[japancool]

By not publishing your address on your website and on your invoices, you are breaking the law. I would stay clear of Trading Standards if I were you.

 

[japancool]

It's bespoke as far as the sale of Goods act goes.

The Sale of Goods Act has been superseded by the Consumer Rights Act.

 

[NickGrogan]

It's bespoke as far as the sale of Goods act goes.

I dont think so

"
You may in particular be interested in the discussions on customised/personalised products in the DG Justice Guidance Document concerning the Consumer Rights Directive on Article 16(c) where it states:
"Goods made to the consumer’s specifications’ are defined in Article 2 of the Directive as ‘non- prefabricated goods made on the basis of an individual choice of or decision by the consumer’. Recital 49 of the Directive refers to ‘tailor-made curtains’ as an example of goods made to the consumer’s specifications or which are clearly personalised.
Since this rule is an exception from the Directive’s more general rule giving consumers the right of withdrawal from distance/off-premises contracts, it should be interpreted narrowly.
So, this exception should cover, for example:

• Goods, for which the consumer has provided specifications, such as measurements for furniture or the size of a fabric.
• Goods, for which the consumer has requested specific personalised features, such as a particular design for a car that is made to order or a specific component for a computer, which has to be individually procured for that particular order and which was not part of the trader’s general offer to the public.
• Address labels with the consumer’s contact information or T-shirts with a personalised print.

Specification/personalisation in this context should be taken to mean that the goods are, in principle, unique and produced according to the individual wishes and requirements stated by the consumer and agreed with the trader.
In contrast, where the consumer simply make up the goods by picking from the standard (pre-set) options provided by the trader, such as colour or additional equipment in a car, or makes up a set of furniture on the basis of standard elements, it should not be possible to speak of either ‘specification’ or ‘personalisation’ in the narrow sense of this provision.""

https://ca.practicallaw.thomsonreut...fault&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

Atidrep said: ↑
They are not made to her specifications, they are made to the specifications published on my website.

There is nothing bespoke about them, she just doesn't follow standard 10/12/14 dress sizes. No idea why...

14 day cancellation period applies, no reason needed.

 

[kulture]

All this demonstrates the need to use professional advice or get a proper full understanding of the law and how it relates to your business. Whilst I fully understand and agree with your desire to avoid the high levels of returns, you must make sure that you fully follow the law otherwise you will be required to honour any idiot return request.

so use this as a learning exercise and tighten your process and change your website so that it follows the letter of the law and is a genuine bespoke item and not a selection of options

 

[fisicx]

The dress is faulty. You either refund or repair. If this goes to litigation you will lose.

To state no returns on your website puts you at risk. Customers are entitled to return products if they don’t fit, don’t like them or a are faulty. The only way you might get away with this is if the dresses at made to the customers’s specification. Made to order is not the same as bespoke.

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

R.e. the zip - sorry, to say it's worked 3 times doesn't cut it! If you bought a TV and it worked 3 times then wouldn't turn on any more, would you be happy? That said, she almost certainly is using that as an excuse.

How much are we talking here in cost/retail value?

 

[tony84]

There is no point fretting about it, she would take it to small claims court which would mean at most you would have to refund the cost of the dress plus court fee (which sounds like it would be around £50-60).

You have to provide an address, it does not need to be a home address, it could be a po box or even your accountants if they are happy for that. My accountant tells me he gets bailiffs at his home all the time for some of his customers.

The zip working 3 times does not mean it was not fault. Would you say if you watched your TV for a week but then it stopped working that it was ok because it worked for a week?

 

[Fagin2021]

There's some confusion here about the definition of 'made to order'. Made to order is different to 'made to specification'. If by 'made to order' you mean that you only make the dress when an order is received but it's made to a standard detailed on your website, then you have to give the customer a refund or exchange.

If you make an item to the customer's specification (i.e.. a size not offered on your website), then you don't have to offer a refund or exchange.

If the item is faulty you must offer a refund within one month of receipt, or a repair or replacement after that.

If you're going to operate as an ecommerce business then you have to follow the rules - regardless of your feelings or the customer's attitude. The rules include providing an address.

 

[Mr D]

The dress is faulty. You either refund or repair. If this goes to litigation you will lose.

To state no returns on your website puts you at risk. Customers are entitled to return products if they don’t fit, don’t like them or a are faulty. The only way you might get away with this is if the dresses at made to the customers’s specification. Made to order is not the same as bespoke.

To state no returns will also lose a lot of custom too - people buy online because they can send it back if there's a problem.

 

[obscure]

+1 to all the posts stating that the OP must allow returns.

"Made to order" is not exempt from the right of return in the consumer contracts regulations.

 

[mcd1702]

Hello, @Fagin2021, could you please refer to where this information is officially found? I currently have a similar issue, but in this case I am the customer. The website is claiming that the dresses are make to order, and therefore I can only exchange the dress for another size rather than getting a refund. The website is called Khanum's. On the website there is no (return) address provided, neither in the invoice I received. Their customer service is rude too, unfortunately. Thank you so much! PS: I'm from EU and not familiar with UK Customer Rights websites.

 

[MikeJ]

There's a bit about halfway down this page...

Cancellation rights for consumers ordering bespoke goods

Guidance for SMEs

farringfordlegal.co.uk

... which gives a good example of a football shirt. If it's got your name on it, then it's bespoke. If it has a club's player's name on it, it's not.

 

[MikeJ]

Actual UK law site is here...

Accepting returns and giving refunds: the law

When you do and do not have to offer a refund, repair or replacement, unconditional refunds for online purchases, and penalties for deceiving customers

www.gov.uk

 

[MikeJ]

and finally here...

Consumer contracts: distance sales | Business Companion

The rules when you form contracts at a distance, including information requirements and cancellation rights

www.businesscompanion.info

 

[mcd1702]

Hi @MikeJ, thank you! Do you know of any official information on the definition of "bespoke" or "custom made"? I already came across the first site, but I just want to be backed up by official information . Thanks!