Free tea & coffee for staff or not?

[minghis]

We have a company with circa 25 staff and have a mix of building based and community (out and about) based workplaces. When staff are in a building they have access to tea and coffee, free, which we have always provided. We have multiple clients (we support people with LD and mental health) who use these facilities for their own drinks for which they make a small contribution.

Situation now is that the staff who are community based (out and about with a group of clients) are asking for us to pay for their refreshments as they have to pay to get their drinks in a cafe or similar whereas those staff working 'at base' have access to free drinks.

Our policy states that we will pay for reasonable expenses when staff are unexpectedly away from a base or when they may work late but we have in the past made it clear that we do not expect to pay for their drinks when they know they will be outside.

Do the majority of companies ask staff to pay for or contribute to tea, coffee and milk or is it usually given free?

 

[Newchodge]

If the staff have to visit cafes with their clients then their drinks are a business expense - they have no choice about buying something and should be reimbursed.

 

[STDFR33]

If the staff have to visit cafes with their clients then their drinks are a business expense - they have no choice about buying something and should be reimbursed.

Of course they have a choice.

They can take a flask or bottle of water from home if they wish but choose not to.

We'd never reimburse for something like this.

 

[Newchodge]

Of course they have a choice.

They can take a flask or bottle of water from home if they wish but choose not to.

We'd never reimburse for something like this.

Your staff must visit some unusual cafes. I have never found one where people can supply their own food or drink.

 

[STDFR33]

Your staff must visit some unusual cafes. I have never found one where people can supply their own food or drink.

You have misunderstood.

They can take a flask or water to work not a café.

It then renders the café redundant.

 

[Newchodge]

And if they have to vist a cafe with their group of clients? I agree, they have a choice if they are not required to visit a cafe. If they were required to take a group of clients to a cinema they would have their cinema tickets reimbursed.

 

[Mr D]

If the staff have to visit cafes with their clients then their drinks are a business expense - they have no choice about buying something and should be reimbursed.

And if not visiting a café with clients then presumably no need to use café.

No reason for staff out with clients to not take drinks with them for when they need a drink. And aren't using a café.

A few of my employers had staff take clients to appointments, visit clients at places, go out engaging with clients.
Without any café being involved.

 

[Newchodge]

That was why my first post said

If the staff have to visit cafes with their clients

 

[Paul Norman]

We pay for tea and coffee in the office. If staff are out on the road I am happy to do the same.

If I felt someone was being excessive with their claims, I would speak to them about it.

 

[paulears]

I think that if I was trying to impress a potential new client they'd find it a bit penny pinching if I bought them a coffee and brought my own sarnies and drink? I suppose it depends what impression you want them to create?

 

[Mr D]

That was why my first post said

I would guess that most staff won't be visiting cafes with clients.

 

[paulears]

Well - when I'm trying to have private words with some of my creatives during rehearsals, leaving the building to go and have discussions and evaluations is pretty critical, so the cafe across the road is an ideal location - and I buy the coffee and cakes, every time.

 

[STDFR33]

I think that if I was trying to impress a potential new client they'd find it a bit penny pinching if I bought them a coffee and brought my own sarnies and drink? I suppose it depends what impression you want them to create?

The company is a care company. The clients are often referred to 'service users' and I've not ever come across a care company that pays for the refreshments of its support workers.

 

[Newchodge]

The company is a care company. The clients are often referred to 'service users' and I've not ever come across a care company that pays for the refreshments of its support workers.

Many care companies won't even pay for travel time between clients.

 

[Financial-Modeller]

...Situation now is that the staff who are community based (out and about with a group of clients) are asking for us to pay for their refreshments as they have to pay to get their drinks in a cafe or similar whereas those staff working 'at base' have access to free drinks...

This bit seems pertinent.

If your staff are with your company's clients wholly in the course of their work for your company as part of the service that your clients are paying you for, your staff should be reimbursed for reasonable expenses and your company should either absorb those costs or pass them onto your client per agreed terms of business with those clients.

If on the other hand your staff are choosing to take your clients to a cafe purely for personal choice or as a break from their work, then they should pay for their own refreshments if they choose to purchase them.

 

[alan1302]

A few of my employers had staff take clients to appointments, visit clients at places, go out engaging with clients.
Without any café being involved.

What sort of places?

 

[Mr D]

Anyone thought the staff are going to a café because they are simply wanting a drink and some food?
People often do. Without clients being involved.

You spend time away from work, you fancy a cup of coffee. You pop in a café and have a coffee and a bun...
Claim it, don't claim it - nothing at all to do with clients?

 

[Paul Norman]

Many care companies won't even pay for travel time between clients.

I thought that was illegal, if it takes them below minimum wage?

 

[billybob99]

You'll notice when your staff have to pay out of pocket, they'll get the small coffee. When they know they're getting reimbursed they'll always go large and get the muffin as well.

 

[alan1302]

Anyone thought the staff are going to a café because they are simply wanting a drink and some food?
People often do. Without clients being involved.

You spend time away from work, you fancy a cup of coffee. You pop in a café and have a coffee and a bun...
Claim it, don't claim it - nothing at all to do with clients?

Yes, I have thought of that but think op was meaning when they take a client to the cafe.

I don't think it will be a surprise to people on here that sometimes people go to a cafe for a coffee and a bun...think that's a major things for cafes to cater for.

You've not said the sort of place your former employers took people that weren't cafes when entertaining so they din't have to make any claims - care to elaborate?

 

[ecommerce84]

The playing field should be level but you’re looking at it from the wrong angle.

Instead of reimbursing the field workers get a fancy new coin operated coffee machine for the office.

They’re all addicted to the stuff so you’ll be raking it in, and as everyone has to pay no one can complain that its unfair.

Flawless plan.

 

[Newchodge]

I thought that was illegal, if it takes them below minimum wage?

Oh yes.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I was under the impression it is now regarded as paid time from when they start to when they get back to the office, so time on the road is fully paid at normal pay rate, or am i wrong, and therefore nothing to do with minimum wage

 

[Bob Morgan]

We have a company with circa 25 staff and have a mix of building based and community (out and about) based workplaces. When staff are in a building they have access to tea and coffee, free, which we have always provided. We have multiple clients (we support people with LD and mental health) who use these facilities for their own drinks for which they make a small contribution.

Situation now is that the staff who are community based (out and about with a group of clients) are asking for us to pay for their refreshments as they have to pay to get their drinks in a cafe or similar whereas those staff working 'at base' have access to free drinks.

Our policy states that we will pay for reasonable expenses when staff are unexpectedly away from a base or when they may work late but we have in the past made it clear that we do not expect to pay for their drinks when they know they will be outside.

Do the majority of companies ask staff to pay for or contribute to tea, coffee and milk or is it usually given free?

Do you charge personal visitors to your own home for tea and coffee? There are certain things in business that you have to absorb - And, then use them to your advantage!

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Isn't the real issue here the variance in cost?

You can get 400 cups from a 500g , £19.99, can of Kenco, yet a typical brew in Costa costs somewhere between 2 and 3 quid.

A staff member having half a dozen meetings a day could soon ramp up a bill in excess of £30

 

[alan1302]

Isn't the real issue here the variance in cost?

You can get 400 cups from a 500g , £19.99, can of Kenco, yet a typical brew in Costa costs somewhere between 2 and 3 quid.

A staff member having half a dozen meetings a day could soon ramp up a bill in excess of £30

So should they carry a can of instant coffee with them to use in the cafe? Lol I don't see the variance in the cost of the coffee anything to do with the original question.

 

[Paul Norman]

Isn't the real issue here the variance in cost?

You can get 400 cups from a 500g , £19.99, can of Kenco, yet a typical brew in Costa costs somewhere between 2 and 3 quid.

A staff member having half a dozen meetings a day could soon ramp up a bill in excess of £30

I would be happy with that, assuming they were productive meetings.

 

[Paul Norman]

Oh yes.

Just checking! Thank you .

 

[Newchodge]

I was under the impression it is now regarded as paid time from when they start to when they get back to the office, so time on the road is fully paid at normal pay rate, or am i wrong, and therefore nothing to do with minimum wage

It has been established in law that it is paid time. However the only law about pay is the national minimum wage. So, while paying for travel between jobs is required, it can only be enforced if it takes the total pay below minimum wage (which is very very likely to happen in the care industry) or if there is a clear contractual obligation.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Thanks Cyndy
But not sure how that would be the case anyway if your paid above the minimum wage or on it, if its the law, your paid (say carers) then from start to finish you are on pay with a contract presumably stating your work periods, so you would never go below the minimum wage

 

[paulears]

One employer I know, who follows minimum wage religiously and is what would be termed, 'thrifty' provides read, coffee, milk and sugar for his employees at work simply because them popping out for Barista coffee takes them out of work for longer. The big container of Nescafe is a drink, but gets them back to work quicker.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

So should they carry a can of instant coffee with them to use in the cafe? Lol I don't see the variance in the cost of the coffee anything to do with the original question.

You might if you were paying for it?

25 members of staff, let's say 10 on the road 5 days a week x £30 = over £6k a month

15 members of staff in the office x 6 cups of coffee a day @ let's say 20p a cup = £360 a month.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

One employer I know, who follows minimum wage religiously and is what would be termed, 'thrifty' provides read, coffee, milk and sugar for his employees at work simply because them popping out for Barista coffee takes them out of work for longer. The big container of Nescafe is a drink, but gets them back to work quicker.

One employer I know done away with vending machines to reduce plastic waste, replacing them with free tea, coffee and milk.

Rather than have breakfast at home, people started to bring cereals in, using the milk intended for the coffee, with someone nicking the remainder of the 4 pint carton every night!

 

[alan1302]

You might if you were paying for it?

25 members of staff, let's say 10 on the road 5 days a week x £30 = over £6k a month

15 members of staff in the office x 6 cups of coffee a day @ let's say 20p a cup = £360 a month.

The on the road ones are with a client though - so would you pay for that coffee?

 

[Newchodge]

Thanks Cyndy
But not sure how that would be the case anyway if your paid above the minimum wage or on it, if its the law, your paid (say carers) then from start to finish you are on pay with a contract presumably stating your work periods, so you would never go below the minimum wage

If you pay minimumwage + 5%, but only pay for time spemt with clients and not for travelling time, pay goes below minimum wage if travelling time is more than 5% of total time. That gives a legal claim. If the contract states £10 per hour for all working time but only pays £10 for time with clients, that may not take it below min wage, but gives rise to a contract claim.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

But how can firms not pay travel time when its the law to do so

 

[Newchodge]

But how can firms not pay travel time when its the law to do so

Because they have the power to break the law and many employees do not have the resources to fight them. Have you not seen the list of employers 'dealt with' by HMRC for not paying minimum wage? Sadly 'dealing with them' does not mean doing anything other than making them pay the money that had been due. I think there may have been ONE case when a criminal prosecution was instigated, but if there is no penalty there is no incentive for the unscrupulous employer to abide by the law.

 

[paulears]

Didn't we have a topic recently where we discussed that hospitality expenses were no longer allowed, or did I dream it?

 

[Newchodge]

Didn't we have a topic recently where we discussed that hospitality expenses were no longer allowed, or did I dream it?

We did, but that was about claiming tax releif on hospitality expenses, not whether the employee incurring them should be reimbursed.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeand...des-i-make-soup-to-feed-the-team-at-lunchtime

Try making soup for your team.