Eating lunch on a 5/6 hour shift

[bounce]

Hi

I have an 18 year employee that does upto 5/6 hour shifts, and are normally 11-4, 12-6 etc

Because of the timing he always likes to have some lunch during his shift as it affects his dinner in the evening if he eats around his shift!

We haven't agreed to this being ok, as he is in a customer facing, retail environment, and it doesn't look good to be sat eating, whilst watching youtube on your phone, when you should be ready to serve!

Would this be seen to be over the top if we refuse to let them have lunch behind the counter?? If it was me as an employee, i would eat around my shifts...

 

[simon field]

Can they not just eat something in their tea break?

Somewhere else.

 

[Mr D]

With 6 hour shift they are entitled to a break of 20 minutes.
Some places require employee to work longer by the break amount so work 6 hours, 12 to 6.20 perhaps.

It is a good idea to allow time to eat sometime - the sound of a tummy rumbling is not great.

And provide area away from customers to eat or require eating to be done out of view.

 

[Newchodge]

Poor lamb, perhaps explain that there is no set time for eating and that you expect them to attend work fed and ready to go. If they cnnot do that perhaps they are not in the right job.

 

[simon field]

5 hours without a break?

Seriously though?

 

[Newchodge]

5 hours without a break?

Seriously though?

The law allows 6 hours without a break. Toilet breaks excepted.

 

[MOIC]

The law allows 6 hours without a break. Toilet breaks excepted.

The law's an ass.

4 Hours without a break is acceptable, anything more than that is unreasonable.

As an employer treat your staff fairly and with due consideration, having a break every 4 hours is reasonable, irrespective of what the law dictates.

A well treated employee will serve your business well.

 

[DavidWH]

The law's an ass.

4 Hours without a break is acceptable, anything more than that is unreasonable.

As an employer treat your staff fairly and with due consideration, having a break every 4 hours is reasonable, irrespective of what the law dictates.

A well treated employee will serve your business well.

This ^

Put your foot down, tell them their is no break on a 5hr shift... and watch them dig their heels in.

Start dead on time, finish dead on time, have a bad stomach and constantly be sat in toilet, sick days, doing the bare minimum, not doing overtime. Where the Mrs works an entire department are doing this over petty rules.

The rule book works both ways... the law should be the minimum, give them a break, just dont pay them for it.

 

[bounce]

This ^

Put your foot down, tell them their is no break on a 5hr shift... and watch them dig their heels in.

Start dead on time, finish dead on time, have a bad stomach and constantly be sat in toilet, sick days, doing the bare minimum, not doing overtime. Where the Mrs works an entire department are doing this over petty rules.

The rule book works both ways... the law should be the minimum, give them a break, just dont pay them for it.

Starts dead on time anyway.... Comes a few mins early to chat /socialise..... Goes to the toilet nearly every hour on the hour...

 

[simon field]

Forget the law. Just be nice

 

[Jessica A.]

I used to eat lunch (or brunch if you may call it as I don't usually have time to eat before my shift) during my first break when I was working on a graveyard shift. And it was only 15 minutes tops. If I go beyond that, I will be marked as over break and it would affect our team's metrics. I'm usually done eating at around 10-12 minutes and our cafeteria is near so I can easily go back to my station hassle-free. Just tell your employee nicely to take their lunch during their 20 minute break.

 

[antropy]

20 minute break, away from the desk. Do what they want in this time but as long as they are back within the allocated time there is no issue. If they take longer then that is when you should start putting your foot down. But if they are doing good work for 5/6 hours then a 20 minute break is no issue. Alex

 

[TheoNe]

If your employee is 18 years of age or older and this seems to be the case, the law is very clear on entitlements to a break during shifts, and any breach of this can carry serious consequences.

She is entitled to a 15 minute break after 4.5 hours worked and a 30 minute break in excess of 6 hours which can include the aforementioned 15 minute break. You do not have to pay her for these breaks, but legally they need to be provided. It might be an idea to cover her behind the counter whilst she is on break, allowing her to go to a enjoy her break in another location.

I hope this helps.

 

[Newchodge]

She is entitled to a 15 minute break after 4.5 hours worked and a 30 minute break in excess of 6 hours which can include the aforementioned 15 minute break.

Could you reference the law on that. My understanding is that the only legal requirement for breaks is at least 20 minutes if the employee works more than 6 hours. Working Time Regulations.

Health and Safety says employers should ensure staff have appropriate breaks, but the legal requirement is as I have stated.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Pfft... bunch of pansies... I grab my lunch and eat it when I can, If a customer comes in I stop and serve them... I'm entitled to an hours lunch break, but I told them I've never had one in my life, I eat during working... so I'll have a cig break at 11.00am and at 3.00pm... no arguments, all agreed...

everyone's happy.

Can't do with this stopping and starting nonsense... not enough time in the day as it is...

 

[Mr D]

If your employee is 18 years of age or older and this seems to be the case, the law is very clear on entitlements to a break during shifts, and any breach of this can carry serious consequences.

She is entitled to a 15 minute break after 4.5 hours worked and a 30 minute break in excess of 6 hours which can include the aforementioned 15 minute break. You do not have to pay her for these breaks, but legally they need to be provided. It might be an idea to cover her behind the counter whilst she is on break, allowing her to go to a enjoy her break in another location.

I hope this helps.

Eh?
20 minutes in a 6 hour or longer shift I know of. 30 minutes some places I know give, maybe even an hour. But minimum being 20 minutes.

15 minute break I've not heard of.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

I think he's got it from here...

https://www.wirehouse-es.com/2019/03/21/employment-law-on-breaks/

Just imagine it though... 1000's of soldiers taking breaks because their entitled to it during a battle...

 

[paulears]

I love the lovely fluffy world of the employed. When you work for yourself, breaks and even toilet visits can simply be impossible. Life sucks sometimes, unless you are an employee who doesn't give a s**t or an employer who doesn't either!

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

She is entitled to a 15 minute break after 4.5 hours worked and a 30 minute break in excess of 6 hours which can include the aforementioned 15 minute break.

No she’s not – she’s attained the age of 18, and is therefore considered to be an “adult worker” for the purposes of the regulations. She's entitled to an uninterrupted (& unpaid) 20 minute break, away from the workstation, if the shift is six hours or more.


(No idea where 15 minutes comes from under any circumstances, but for a young worker – under 18 – they’re entitled to a 30 minute if the shift is more than 4.5 hours.)


Definition of adult & young worker: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/2/made

Right to breaks: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/12/made


Karl Limpert

 

[billybob99]

Use a stopwatch to time how long it takes to eat lunch and work out the average time taken.

You have your new break time.

 

[tony84]

6 hours is a long time to go with no food.

He is right, it does mess up his meal times. I used to do 12-8, I would have something at 11.30 on the way in to work, I would have my lunch at 3-4pm and then my tea when I got in at 9pm.

Obviously none of this is the end of the world and he will live, but I am assuming a minimum wage job. Surely a bit of flexibility would not be the end of the world.

Could you set up CCTV with a monitor to a back room so he can see if a customer comes in that he can put his food down and come to the front of the shop? If the lad is doing a decent job, do you want to risk him leaving for someone more flexible?

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

6 hours is a long time to go with no food.

He is right, it does mess up his meal times. I used to do 12-8, I would have something at 11.30 on the way in to work, I would have my lunch at 3-4pm and then my tea when I got in at 9pm.

They're not being asked to go six hours without food - they have a legal right to a break, and can take a break to eat/s**t/and watch YouTube if they want.

The suggestion is that they don't do any of this in front of the customer - at the workstation! A perfectly reasonable suggestion.


If the working hours disrupt dinner time, either get a job that fits with dinner time, or just perhaps adjust dinner time.



Seriously, so much mollycoddling in this thread. It used to disrupt my breakfast, dinner, and nights out that I'd have to leave the house at 3:30am to deliver fresh bread to the residents of Dublin; I was 15. Somehow I managed to adjust my meal-times & social times to fit around my work.

[Edit: to add]

Seriously, how is the UK going to thrive post-Brexit when we think regulations first proposed within the EU don't go far enough, that employers should fit working patterns around someone's dinner time, not around the needs of the business & its customers? Some of the comments in this thread are just a joke!



Karl Limpert

 

[tony84]

It is not molly coddling it is just being nice.

I have been up to do markets at 4-5am in the morning having a curry at 10.30am for lunch - it is nothing heroic or special. You do what you have to do. I am just saying that there is no harm in being nice/accommodating if the member of staff is generally a decent one.

Is it really that much of an inconvenience to allow it?

 

[Bronco78th]

Seriously, how is the UK going to thrive post-Brexit when we think regulations first proposed within the EU don't go far enough, that employers should fit working patterns around someone's dinner time, not around the needs of the business & its customers? Some of the comments in this thread are just a joke!

I think the case is that Employers are increasingly more scared of being taken to an employment tribunal for what is on the face of it a pretty basic, common sense working rule change on some such thing by employees who are increasingly wising up / know their rights.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Because of the timing he always likes to have some lunch during his shift as it affects his dinner in the evening if he eats around his shift!

We haven't agreed to this being ok, as he is in a customer facing, retail environment, and it doesn't look good to be sat eating, whilst watching youtube on your phone, when you should be ready to serve!

Would this be seen to be over the top if we refuse to let them have lunch behind the counter?? If it was me as an employee, i would eat around my shifts...

It is not molly coddling it is just being nice.

I think the case is that Employers are increasingly more scared of being taken to an employment tribunal for what is on the face of it a pretty basic, common sense working rule change on some such thing by employees who are increasingly wising up / know their rights.

I despair! It doesn't look good to the customer that the employee is sat at their workstation, eating their lunch & watching YouTube, but it's being nice?

A common-sense change would be to have your bloody dinner around your working patterns!


Karl Limpert

 

[GraemeL]

and any molly coddling you do for one person will have to extend to all of the other molly's.

 

[Mr D]

They're not being asked to go six hours without food - they have a legal right to a break, and can take a break to eat/s**t/and watch YouTube if they want.

The suggestion is that they don't do any of this in front of the customer - at the workstation! A perfectly reasonable suggestion.


If the working hours disrupt dinner time, either get a job that fits with dinner time, or just perhaps adjust dinner time.



Seriously, so much mollycoddling in this thread. It used to disrupt my breakfast, dinner, and nights out that I'd have to leave the house at 3:30am to deliver fresh bread to the residents of Dublin; I was 15. Somehow I managed to adjust my meal-times & social times to fit around my work.

[Edit: to add]

Seriously, how is the UK going to thrive post-Brexit when we think regulations first proposed within the EU don't go far enough, that employers should fit working patterns around someone's dinner time, not around the needs of the business & its customers? Some of the comments in this thread are just a joke!



Karl Limpert

They have a legal right to a break during a 6 hour shift. Nothing in a 5 hour shift.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Customers do not normally want to see people eating there lunch while being served apart from bad manners it can also leave food all over the desk and paperwork of keyboard

The time off is not the problem it just the point of eating in a retail environment, Its the staff time off so tell them to eat somewhere outside the view of any customers be it away from the shop or maybe the stock room or tea/ coffee area

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

They have a legal right to a break during a 6 hour shift. Nothing in a 5 hour shift.

Thanks for pointing that out, @Mr D . After 30 years advising on employment law, and even referencing the prevailing laws above

Right to breaks: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1998/1833/regulation/12/made

... and then commenting on six hours when replying to a post that mentions 6 hours...

6 hours is a long time to go with no food.

... I now feel better informed on what the rights are for a 5 hour shift (which would differ if the employee is under 18).

I'll double-check that I've been advising my clients appropriately all these years... (I think I've been accurate in my advice for at least the last five hours, maybe even six hours!)


Karl Limpert

 

[Mr D]

Thanks for pointing that out, @Mr D . After 30 years advising on employment law, and even referencing the prevailing laws above



... and then commenting on six hours when replying to a post that mentions 6 hours...


... I now feel better informed on what the rights are for a 5 hour shift (which would differ if the employee is under 18).

I'll double-check that I've been advising my clients appropriately all these years... (I think I've been accurate in my advice for at least the last five hours, maybe even six hours!)


Karl Limpert

And the thread is about 5 / 6 hour shifts.
You may not have noticed the title when you posted just about the 6 hours?

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

And the thread is about 5 / 6 hour shifts.
You may not have noticed the title when you posted just about the 6 hours?

Oops. I shouldn't comment on any post that references six hours then, as the title is about variable 5 or 6 hour shifts?

For completeness for others that may seek out a legal position from this thread, just remember that

They have a legal right to a break during a 6 hour shift. Nothing in a 5 hour shift.

only refers to adult workers - those of 18 years & older. For a young worker, there is a right in a 5 hour shift. (Age isn't mentioned in the thread title.)


Karl Limpert

 

[Mr D]

Oops. I shouldn't comment on any post that references six hours then, as the title is about variable 5 or 6 hour shifts?

For completeness for others that may seek out a legal position from this thread, just remember that


only refers to adult workers - those of 18 years & older. For a young worker, there is a right in a 5 hour shift. (Age isn't mentioned in the thread title.)


Karl Limpert

You shouldn't be surprised when someone else points out that what applies to one shift does not apply to the other. One of those instances where there different legal minimums exist.
As you say, for adults.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

This is why I decided to be a photographer. No nit-picking about hours and meal breaks.

 

[MBE2017]

Many employers would do well to think of their employees regarding breaks etc. My daughter works at a children’s nursery, only 20 mins given on a six hour shift, nothing above the legal requirements.

On the flip side, my daughter is expected to attend a monthly evening meeting of 2/3 hrs long unpaid, and NEVER leave her post unless cover is provided, so she often has to work 20 mins unpaid daily, yet the nursery gets paid extra for parents collecting late etc.

End result, she is now moving to a better employer. The nursery already struggling to recruit qualified people will have to reduce the number of children they currently accept when she leaves.

 

[The Byre]

No she’s not – she’s attained the age of 18, and is therefore considered to be an “adult worker” for the purposes of the regulations. She's entitled to an uninterrupted (& unpaid) 20 minute break, away from the workstation, if the shift is six hours or more.

This!

If she wishes to stuff her face in that 20-minute break, that's her funeral.

I've been at my desk since eight this morning and without any break for anything other than urination and defecation - and about four coffees, the sort that, if you don't drink them, you use them to do the doors.

No wonder so many people today are lard-tubs! You can go several days without food. Get a grip!

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Many employers would do well to think of their employees regarding breaks etc. My daughter works at a children’s nursery, only 20 mins given on a six hour shift, nothing above the legal requirements.

On the flip side, my daughter is expected to attend a monthly evening meeting of 2/3 hrs long unpaid, and NEVER leave her post unless cover is provided, so she often has to work 20 mins unpaid daily, yet the nursery gets paid extra for parents collecting late etc.

End result, she is now moving to a better employer. The nursery already struggling to recruit qualified people will have to reduce the number of children they currently accept when she leaves.

So rather than assert her legal rights to her pay, she's moving to another employer?


Many nurseries are struggling, as the govt provide (in theory) 30 hours of free childcare, but don't pay the rates I was paying for this some years ago.

The need for attendance is a legal requirement - there has to be so many staff available & in attendance at any given time in a nursery; it's not unreasonable for an employer to insist that the legal requirement is met, and that staff only leave the children in their care when there are an adequate number of colleagues to cover.


Your daughter may be expected to attend a parent's evening, but if that's part of her duties, that should be paid work; if it's not paid, she has a right to claim it.

Suggesting that someone has to move jobs because the employer is apparently not paying the wages is not fairly comparable to deciding whether an employee wants to eat their lunch at their desk, allowing them to be unpresentable at the checkout, rather than making minimal adjustments to allow for the fact they now have a job, have left the convenience of school and may have to adjust the time they have their dinner!


Karl Limpert

 

[Mark Laurie]

On the flip side, my daughter is expected to attend a monthly evening meeting of 2/3 hrs long unpaid, and NEVER leave her post unless cover is provided, so she often has to work 20 mins unpaid daily, yet the nursery gets paid extra for parents collecting late etc.

Sounds like a potential breach of NMW/NLW to me.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

I have an occasional part-time 'employee', who comes in when she want's, goes home when she want's, eats and puts the kettle on when she want's and it work's just fine with me.
Why?
Because she know's what has to be done, does it very well, make's sure it's done and that in itself means I don't have to worry about 15 or 20 minute tea breaks.

 

[DigitalSheppard]

Legally, he's allowed to a break - I believe the time is at least 20 minutes so this is enough time to have food.

However, let's ignore the law for a second. You should always try and get the best out of your team. After all, a grumpy, hungry employee won't be as efficient or effective as his/her colleagues.

Give them lunch and a bit of time to relax (within reason) and they will perform better.

 

[STDFR33]

This is why small employers usually end up with sh1te staff. They try to squeeze every last second from their employees and in return get employees with no loyalty, that are unproductive and wouldn’t give to flying flicks if the employer went under because they’d just get another minimum wage job pretty quickly. It doesn’t have to cost much to provide decent working conditions and be a good employer.