Should I tell the designer our budget?

[rossmc]

We're looking to get a Drupal site done to a pretty high standard and the first rough quote is £1800+VAT from a good design firm and it falls within budget.

Should we let the other people we're getting quotes from know that we have a budget of £2000 or should we keep quiet on the budget and just let them come back with quotes?

 

[Cornish Steve]

For companies trying to win significant business, it's critical to find out the customer's budget, whether than budget is approved and by whom, who are the competition, what is the compelling event, and so on. By quoting your available budget, you are giving a distinct advantage to potential suppliers.

If these guys are pros, they'll know what is a good price for the work. If they know they face stiff competition, they'll be less tempted to pad their pricing. So, at first sight, I'd stay mum about your budget but make it clear you are soliciting bids from several companies (but don't mention which ones).

 

[Lisette]

I might be tempted to say you are expecting under £1800 so that you do not waste people's time (and your's briefing them) if they are thinking something very different. If you tell them that others are also quoting they will not wish to pad the quote. If your spec is tight enough they won't be able to cut corners. but Steve's comments are also very valid.

 

[rossmc]

Thanks for the feedback, any other thoughts?

I'm looking at sites of the quality of: www.tictocfamily.com www.auctioning4u.com www.innocentdrinks.com www.themindgym.com
but with a Drupal CMS allowing truly dynamic updating of the site.

I've been told by the company in question that they can do it and their portfolio is impressive, £1800 + VAT doesn't seem too bad?

 

[Ritch]

I think you should let them know in approximate terms. We often work as strategy consultants for clients who are in the process of developing websites. You’d be surprised at the financial range of quotes we receive for the same job.
I agree with Lisette, you should always nail down in exact terms what you want from web developers in the form of technical and creative specifications. Don’t forget the on costs for future amends and also if the price includes a content management system.

 

[RedEvo]

I'd stay mum about your budget but make it clear you are soliciting bids from several companies (but don't mention which ones).

As a development company I get really hacked off at the cloak and dagger approach to who we are bidding against. I like to know who and if not who at least how many.

It's simply not on getting Proper Web Company Ltd to bid against Dave's Bedroom Mashups Unlimited

In my humble opinion......

d

 

[Matt1959]

I dont give budgets. If I go to buy a car and the salesman asks me what I'm looking to spend I know if I say £5000 he'll drag a car out thats priced at £4950. For me, its the same elsewhere unless I'm dealing with someone I trust and have used many times before. As far as web designers are concerned, why cant they ask what I want as a client then give me a ball park price for that? If someone asks me to price a job, I ask them what they want do and price accordingly I wouldnt dream, of asking them what they want to spend. If you take a car in for a repair, does the garage ask you what you want to spend? no. If you want a garden wall built? no. etc

 

[bwglaw]

If you disclose your budget, thus removing the element of competition, the supplier is likely to very closely match your disclosed budget even though the budget may be lower for the suppliers' usual standard of work. This exposes a risk to work being done to a sub-standard, less time being spent etc on the project to make the reduced budget worthwhile for the supplier.

From experience, I do not believe in the cheapest, because it is cheap for a reason, unless you have used that supplier previously and feel assured they can deliver the same standard as a more expensive supplier. Disclosing the budget to one potential supplier but not the others is not quite fair.

 

[Coding Monkey]

I dont give budgets. If I go to buy a car and the salesman asks me what I'm looking to spend I know if I say £5000 he'll drag a car out thats priced at £4950. For me, its the same elsewhere unless I'm dealing with someone I trust and have used many times before. As far as web designers are concerned, why cant they ask what I want as a client then give me a ball park price for that? If someone asks me to price a job, I ask them what they want do and price accordingly I wouldnt dream, of asking them what they want to spend. If you take a car in for a repair, does the garage ask you what you want to spend? no. If you want a garden wall built? no. etc

Because there is so, so much you can add toward a website in order to make it successful, that your quote can come back easily 10x more than what you were after. Add SEO for highly competitive terms, long-term management of PPC, copywriter doing 200+ product descriptions, 50 pages; photographer taking model shots, 40 hero shots and 600+ product photographs; usability consultant; more advanced tracking software.

A lot of people say they'd want these, and why shouldn't they? But, for me to get them a price on every single one of the above, as we don't do it ourselves, I have to ask other people to quote. And I truly dislike phoning suppliers to waste their time by requesting a quote on something that I have absolutely no awareness of what they want to spend. And, in asking these suppliers how much, they generally ask back: how much do they want to spend?

So, I always ask, even if it's "would you want X? As a base price, it will be £Y". A lot of people are embarrassed about how much their budget is, so even then, the answer you receive isn't always true.

 

[Cornish Steve]

As a development company I get really hacked off at the cloak and dagger approach to who we are bidding against. I like to know who and if not who at least how many.

Of course you do. Negotiation is all about information; the more information you have, the more leverage you have. This is one way you can determine a good salesperson: They determine the compelling event that ensures a request is real, they find out the budget and price expectations, and they learn all they can about the competition. They do this by exchanging information; it's part of the process. Good negotiators, though, don't give away information for nothing.

 

[Astaroth]

Both systems are flawed.

The majority of people do not have the capital to pay the price of everything they are asking for. If they say what their budget is there is almost still a bidding system but it is a bid based on scope rather than cost.

If there is no budget set then a quote can be given but it is almost a case of trying to guess what they have to spend and making recommendations and a price on that basis. Whilst obviously this should be "discussed" with the client you have to be realistic about things too.... a friend recently posted a web job on here and got between 30-40 emails/ PMs with prices ranging from £500 to over £5000. In the real world, if he has a budget of £1000 is he going to bother replying to the 15-20 messages that were over budget and discuss scope individually with them or simply the 5 that were closest to the price and clarify things with them?

 

[RedEvo]

I dont give budgets. If I go to buy a car and the salesman asks me what I'm looking to spend I know if I say £5000 he'll drag a car out thats priced at £4950.

So you'd stroll into your local BMW dealership with a budget of £500?

We give a detailed itemised quote for all jobs. Every aspect has an associated cost. This provides transparency.

I do understand the issues surrounding the disclosure of budgets but it works both ways - others have said.

d

 

[Short Time Stationery]

It would be fair to say that if you said "I've got £1800 as a budget, what do I get for that kind of money" to all potental designers. Then as an up front offer, the onus is on them to tailor something for the money quoted.
You will then have a like for like comparison.

Then and this is the important bit, you ask for references from them for designs that they have used this spec in the past and follow them up.

 

[Astaroth]

A lot depends, if the delivery is your over riding priority then it should be a detailed requirements that you give and budget is a lot less important. If there are budgetry constraints and requirements will have to change before the budget does then a wish list of requirements and an idea of budget will mean the quotes you get are more useful.

There will be some that inflate their quote because they see you as a soft target and they are normally the budget end of the market but at the end of the day if you get strong references and are happy with their varified portfolio does it technically matter?

 

[creospace]

I always ask for a rough idea of prospects budgets before I even begin to quote. If they don't want to play ball then usually they are totally price focussed and looking for the cheapest deal not the best deal. Seeing as out work is based on quality not price alone then i probably wouldn't' bother quoting as I know I will never get the work.

It is important of course to quote like for like as you can be way off like Tom touched on but also if you are a good salesman you can upsell the client if you have good ideas.

 

[RedEvo]

Well put Creo!

d

 

[rossmc]

Thanks for all the help, still a bit confused as to whether I should be totally upfront about our budget or not!

 

[RedEvo]

If you are not prepared to discuss budgets with them perhaps you shouldn't be working with them. You have to build trust first. IMHO.

If you have an inkling that they will charge you £2000 if you tell them you have £2000 or £500 if you tell them you have £500 don't deal with them.

Make sure quotes are detailed (itemised). Query things that look suss and ask for an explanation.

d

 

[Coding Monkey]

I always ask for a rough idea of prospects budgets before I even begin to quote.

Yes, same. We won't put a quote together without an idea of price now. No problem in talking to anyone, going through their specification and giving a vague idea, but a quote is time consuming.

Interesting the difference in the public opinion and the actual web designers.

 

[RedEvo]

Problem is our industry is full of idiots who buy a copy of frontpage and call themselves web developers. We've been here before but this creates a snake oil salesman image and so public mistrust........

Don't get me started!!

d

 

[rossmc]

Agreed, choosing a deisgner is a total minefield!

 

[creospace]

Agreed, choosing a deisgner is a total minefield!

So how can we as designers/developers make your life easier - this woudl be of great interest to us.

 

[RedEvo]

It's not hard. Engage with them (us), use your intuition, if something doesn't ring true walk away, ask for business references.

Tada!

d

 

[simonswords]

I think that you should always inform the web designer or software developer of your budget and this is why...

It allows the supplier to be truthful with you with regards to whether they can take your job on. It also allows the supplier to ensure that you have a thorough understanding of what it is that can be achieved for your level of budget.

If your budget is too low the supplier can work with you to remove any unnecessary features, and if it's too high then an honest supplier will tell you so (this has happened to us twice already this year).

I should say that we will still provide a quote without knowing a client's budget but we feel we are able to be a lot more useful to our clients from the outset if we know how much they have to spend.

I know that there is the possibility of some unscrupulous suppliers inflating their prices to match your budget, however if you are obtaining three or more quotes you'll soon be able to spot any "Del Boys" and eliminate them from your list.

 

[RedEvo]

Great post!

d

 

[Short Time Stationery]

So how can we as designers/developers make your life easier - this woudl be of great interest to us.

Ask your clients if they minded putting a link from your site to theirs in a portfolio page, and would be prepared to give a testimony if asked. This is a generic answer not specific to Creospace....

 

[Short Time Stationery]

I think that you should always inform the web designer or software developer of your budget and this is why...

It allows the supplier to be truthful with you with regards to whether they can take your job on. It also allows the supplier to ensure that you have a thorough understanding of what it is that can be achieved for your level of budget.

If your budget is too low the supplier can work with you to remove any unnecessary features, and if it’s too high then an honest supplier will tell you so (this has happened to us twice already this year).

I should say that we will still provide a quote without knowing a client's budget but we feel we are able to be a lot more useful to our clients from the outset if we know how much they have to spend.

I know that there is the possibility of some unscrupulous suppliers inflating their prices to match your budget, however if you are obtaining three or more quotes you'll soon be able to spot any "Del Boys" and eliminate them from your list.

In addition to this, get the quote in writing and find out if this includes updates and how many, and what sort. If its a case of replacing a bit of text the cost might not be that great, but adding pictures and rejigging a page to make the info fit probably will.

 

[rossmc]

I think that's the reason I'm so keen on Drupal, I want to have total control over the CMS and if I do want any major changes I want them to be easy to implement.