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In a panic - company accounts

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JoRuby

Free Member
May 20, 2008
61
1
Sheffield
Hi All
My accountant is just not responding to phone, email, text and the office where he works appears to be abandoned. I'm now right up to the deadline (need to be filed today) after spending hours and hours inputting the numbers (was up to 2am last night). I'm now brain dead.

Fixed assets = £4500
Current assets = £61, 902
net current assets (liabilities) £61,902
total assets less current liabilities £65,594

Total net assets (liabilities) £65,594

called up share capital £2
P&L £57

Share holders funds £59

I'm getting this message from the webfiling service.
Can anyone please help?
Current period: Shareholders' funds must be equal to the total net assets (liabilities)Previous: Shareholders' funds Previous period: Shareholders' funds must be equal to the total net assets (liabilities)

I can see that something needs to 'pull forward) but I've now got so blind to it I just cant work out what to do.
 
Hi,

Try to call up Companies House and explain your situation, no harm in trying to buy some time. If they agree, you can in the meantime look for an accountant who can check the figures for the current year, rectify any errors if there are any and get it filed for you.
 
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JoRuby said:
Hi All
My accountant is just not responding to phone, email, text and the office where he works appears to be abandoned. I'm now right up to the deadline (need to be filed today) after spending hours and hours inputting the numbers (was up to 2am last night). I'm now brain dead.

Fixed assets = £4500
Current assets = £61, 902
net current assets (liabilities) £61,902
total assets less current liabilities £65,594

Total net assets (liabilities) £65,594

called up share capital £2
P&L £57

Share holders funds £59

I'm getting this message from the webfiling service.
Can anyone please help?
Current period: Shareholders' funds must be equal to the total net assets (liabilities)Previous: Shareholders' funds Previous period: Shareholders' funds must be equal to the total net assets (liabilities)

I can see that something needs to 'pull forward) but I've now got so blind to it I just cant work out what to do.
Click to expand...

I really would like to help you but its just not enough to work on.

You have some figures missing and or incorrect somewhere.

I hate to say it but at this late stage I think you are going to have to accept that you are going to end up with a penalty and that the best thing is to get a decent accountant asap.
 
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MyAccountantOnline said:
I really would like to help you but its just not enough to work on.

You have some figures missing and or incorrect somewhere.

I hate to say it but at this late stage I think you are going to have to accept that you are going to end up with a penalty and that the best thing is to get a decent accountant asap.
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to be fair OP had 9 months to speak to accountant and they sought accountants help last minute so accountant could be on holiday, bereavement or under high workload.
 
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Karimbo said:
to be fair OP had 9 months to speak to accountant and they sought accountants help last minute so accountant could be on holiday, bereavement or under high workload.
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Appreciate what you say but the OP does say ''My accountant is just not responding to phone, email, text and the office where he works appears to be abandoned.'' - that's not acceptable in my book and I'd be worried if I was a client.

It takes a few minutes to set an answerphone message, an email autoresponder or pop a note on the office door.
 
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MyAccountantOnline said:
Appreciate what you say but the OP does say ''My accountant is just not responding to phone, email, text and the office where he works appears to be abandoned.'' - that's not acceptable in my book and I'd be worried if I was a client.

It takes a few minutes to set an answerphone message, an email autoresponder or pop a note on the office door.
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(Places hard hat on head)
I have noticed quite a strong tendency in accountancy based threads, when there is a problem, for a chorus of "it's the client's fault, poor accountant getting the blame again" from fellow professional accountants. This thread appears to be about to follow a similar line. My Accoiuntant above says 'I'd be worried if I was a client'. If I was the client I would be climbing the walls!

I genuinely don't understand. If I instruct an acountant to lodge my tax returns etc I don't understand how it can be my fault (and the penalties mine to pay) if the returns aren't lodged in time.

If I instruct a silicitor to run my unfair dismissal case, and they fail to lodge the claim within the time limits, I can sue them. Is it really different for accountants?

Can I add I am not stirring it, I am genuinely interested to know.

(Tightens hard hat straps and runs away)
 
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No communication with a client is not acceptable, and this is what Nicola is saying.

If they are engaged to do the year end accounts and receives the information in a timely manner, then then accountant should be held responsible.

Where the client has been chased to get their information in for months on end and then dumps it all on the accountant one week before submission date, then sorry, the client is to blame.

In this case, I would have been looking for an alternative accountant as soon as the warning signs started to appear.
 
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One Call Accountants said:
No communication with a client is not acceptable, and this is what Nicola is saying.

If they are engaged to do the year end accounts and receives the information in a timely manner, then then accountant should be held responsible.

Where the client has been chased to get their information in for months on end and then dumps it all on the accountant one week before submission date, then sorry, the client is to blame.

In this case, I would have been looking for an alternative accountant as soon as the warning signs started to appear.
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Presumably, if they are engaged to do the year end accounts, the agreement will include the date by which all i nformation must be with the accountant?

I fully accept that getting the information to the accountant is the client's responsibility, perhaps I was surprised by Karimbo's post about having 9 months to speak to accountant. There is nothing in the OP to suggest the info wasn't sent on time, just that the accountant appears to have vanished without trace.

Are accountant clients really so appallingly bad?
 
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We send reminder letters. Our last letter has a clause that states we can't guarantee submission by X deadline if information is not received by Y. That's after several chasing letters and calls.

If they accountant wasn't contactable for several months, I wouldn't have left it until approaching the deadline. I'm not faulting the OP in any way though as I don't have the facts.

Are accountant clients really so appallingly bad? Yes! But on the flip side it appears some accountants can be too.
 
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Newchodge said:
I genuinely don't understand. If I instruct an acountant to lodge my tax returns etc I don't understand how it can be my fault (and the penalties mine to pay) if the returns aren't lodged in time.
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What would your view be of the case where a client brings the recors in on 27 January and the accounts need to be filed 4 days later? Not to mention the eight who haven't shown up at all yet? Is it the accountant's fault if the returns aren't filed on time. Bear in mind that the gentleman concerned has had taken 297 days to get the information together, leaving just 3 working days to turn it round? Several reminders were ignored.

Or a client who brings in information in on 5 January, then is sent an email asking for missing information and clarification of a couple of points on 21 January, but hasn't responded to that a full seven days later even though a reminder was sent?

By the way, it's the same people every year. Last year there were so many that we couldn't get them all done on time - for the first time since self assessment came in. This year four people who picked up penalties last year haven't brought in information, or missing information, until this week.

(I do stop for a tea and a quick scan of UKBF by the way!)
 
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Newchodge said:
....

Are accountant clients really so appallingly bad?
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I've been an accountant for a very long time and people vary, simple as that - some like to be ultra efficient doing everything on time, all of the time, some like to leave everything until the last minute and no amount of chasing, persuading and otherwise will change them. That applies to accountants and clients ;)

I fall firmly into the first category. :)
 
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David Griffiths said:
What would your view be of the case where a client brings the recors in on 27 January and the accounts need to be filed 4 days later? Not to mention the eight who haven't shown up at all yet? Is it the accountant's fault if the returns aren't filed on time. Bear in mind that the gentleman concerned has had taken 297 days to get the information together, leaving just 3 working days to turn it round? Several reminders were ignored.

Or a client who brings in information in on 5 January, then is sent an email asking for missing information and clarification of a couple of points on 21 January, but hasn't responded to that a full seven days later even though a reminder was sent?

By the way, it's the same people every year. Last year there were so many that we couldn't get them all done on time - for the first time since self assessment came in. This year four people who picked up penalties last year haven't brought in information, or missing information, until this week.
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That's the client's fault. But as I said, probably in a later post than you responded to, surely your terms include the date by which all relevant information must be received. Mine certainly do for employment tribunal deadlines.
 
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MyAccountantOnline said:
I've been an accountant for a very long time and people vary, simple as that - some like to be ultra efficient doing everything on time, all of the time, some like to leave everything until the last minute and no amount of chasing, persuading and otherwise will change them. That applies to accountants and clients ;)

I fall firmly into the first category. :)
Click to expand...

Me too. I had my self assessment completed by the second week of April last year:rolleyes:
 
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I apologise to the OP, as I seem to have hijacked the thread.

Is there a case for deadlines to be specific to the client, rather than universal. It must be a nightmare trying to finalise everything for everyone for the same date?
 
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Newchodge said:
I apologise to the OP, as I seem to have hijacked the thread.

Is there a case for deadlines to be specific to the client, rather than universal. It must be a nightmare trying to finalise everything for everyone for the same date?
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It does makes a lot of sense to set and communicate deadlines with clients, and certainly the more you actively encourage clients the easier it is for accountant, and client, but as I said before some people will always deal with things at the last minute, as an accountant you simply have to decide whether you deal with clients like that or not.
 
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MyAccountantOnline said:
It does makes a lot of sense to set and communicate deadlines with clients, and certainly the more you actively encourage clients the easier it is for accountant, and client, but as I said before some people will always deal with things at the last minute, as an accountant you simply have to decide whether you deal with clients like that or not.
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Thanks. I think I was thinking more about the fact that everyone has the same deadline, certainly for self assesment, not sure about companies. Might it be better to have a rolling deadline date so 1/12 of the population has a filing date every month.
 
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Newchodge said:
Thanks. I think I was thinking more about the fact that everyone has the same deadline, certainly for self assesment, not sure about companies. Might it be better to have a rolling deadline date so 1/12 of the population has a filing date every month.
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Personally I dont find it too bad the work does spread quite well over the year. I wouldnt like to see any change. Companies all have different deadlines depending on the financial year ends although I find a lot are 31 March and 30 September.
 
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Newchodge said:
Thanks. I think I was thinking more about the fact that everyone has the same deadline, certainly for self assesment, not sure about companies. Might it be better to have a rolling deadline date so 1/12 of the population has a filing date every month.
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Many taxpayers struggle with one deadline, and it would be a nightmare to deal with as an accountant. I would suspect HMRC would be issue penalties left, right and centre in error too.
 
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If I was sneaky my advice would be to call the HMRC and tell them that you have lost your sign-in number, and that you need to re-order it, but it will mean you can not complete log in and submit you self-assessment in time while you are waiting for it to arrive. They should mark your account accordingly, which should buy you a few weeks.
 
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That'd be a cracking idea. Except the OP is talking about their Ltd Co accounts and tax return.
 
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Sorry, I had missed the bit where they mentioned it was Ltd filing. It begin the time of year it is I assumed they were panicking about the SA end of year. The same approach might have worked however, if they got to them before the phone lines closed, as I guess there are sign-in details required for that system too.

As long as they file something, do they not have a period of a few weeks to correct errors? That particular form is one that I let my accountant do. I am not sure why you would have an accountant if you would not pay them to do the actual online filing.
 
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MyAccountantOnline said:
Appreciate what you say but the OP does say ''My accountant is just not responding to phone, email, text and the office where he works appears to be abandoned.'' - that's not acceptable in my book and I'd be worried if I was a client..
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Should have sourced his accountant by peopleperhour...at least it's possible to give neg feedback ;-)
 
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I'm going to get sucked in to replying even though the OP has barely returned to the site since posting the original query.

What makes up the current assets figure of £61,902? Is this largely bank / stock?
 
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I've no reason to be bitter, nor have the other accountants on this thread. Someone holding themselves out to be doing accountancy work whilst charging £65 for company accounts and tax return is no threat to us.

I'm jumping out of this thread now as its turning silly again and the OP doesn't seem to require any more help.
 
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I'd be concerned if I was paying £65 to do non-trading accounts, let alone a full tax return. I would be even more concerned if I was paying the person via People Per Hour.
 
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Like I say the £80 was to a registered bona fide Chartered Accountant...if you're suggesting that your profession has those who are not being professional (based on low fees) ....then you needn't lose too much sleep that your graft towards certification is being diluted ...he was professional so didn't let your profession down...on the contrary I was impressed with how he represented the Chartered Accountant genre!

re the data entry clerk quip......in this particular arrangment, I'm the data entry clerk...i.e. I make sure all my data is correctly input to Quickbooks (& reconciled) before handing it over to him, so he can then 'shake his boogie' with the numbers ...that's how I can get my yearly accounts submitted for £80!
 
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Energise Accounting said:
Aprox 4-5 hours work are you suggesting you are getting a qualified accountant for £9.50 per hour.
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No, but the Chartered Accountant I used in the end clearly was suggesting a qualified accountant will!

When I posted the job ppc, I was actually only after someone (anyone!) who could submit my accounts in iXBRL format or £40(as quickbooks doesn't output in such a format).... I was just seeking data entry clerk with the right software really).....but I got a few accountants reply to my pph job ...and it progressed from there...he offered to do it all for £80....who am I to argue?

Maybe he felt he could do it in three hours?

What are those software costs of £30?

The commission would have only been on the £40 as submitted on my pph job (therefore £6.00)...so I make it £80 - £6 commission = £74 ...divided by 3 hours = £24.66 ...not bad a hourly rate in the comfort of your own sofa working in the evening (which I know he was)
 
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As suggested by @One Call Accountants I was not factoring in other fees such as insurance and professional memberships. PPH to my understanding charge 15%. you need software to produce the year end accounts in their correct format and with the correct accounting notes. you will also need tax software for your CT600 and tax Computations.

My guess is that he has just submitted the figures off your trial balance without making the correct adjustments.
 
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