Are you a Christian?

I do it purely to help alleviate the suffering of others.

Nothing complicated, just helping people who are unable for whatever reason to help themselves. Would like to think that others might do the same for me if roles were reversed, but I guess that from where you're coming from you wouldn't wee on me if I was on fire in the street.


Bobby

OK, so you do it quitetly to help out and do your bit.
Yet feel the need to blurt out about it in the second post in this thread?

Very aultruistic. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

I do alot for others, often to my own detriment. I do, rather than rely on a direct debit to take care of it for me.

Whats more, I don't feel the need to bang on about it or use it to try to gain some kind of moral high ground.

Still, if this is all blah, blah, blah then I guess you'll not be contributing to this thread anymore and we can get on with the discussion in hand.

Bye.
 
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Why? Because it is not a problem that can be solved by charity, giving or money. These only serve to perpetuate the problem, not resolve it.

What does it matter what ones motive is for helping the poor.?:eek:

Giving food does perpetuates the problem for a starving person.?

Very interesting.

Yes the reason why certain members of society suggest that direct help won't help the situation even though they may well have benefited and be the cause of the poorer members of the worlds societies predicament.?

What isolated nationalistic lives many people live.:(
 
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What does it matter what ones motive is for helping the poor.?:eek:

It matters quite alot.
would you applaud a hedge fund investing in a developing countries infrastructure program with a view to making pots of cash - if it meant some roads and wells got built?

Intention is very important.

Giving food does perpetuates the problem for a starving person.?

For the individual? No.
But when you have the governments of developing countries refusing to release emergency aid as they will have to pay to replace it - so they let charities supply alternative aid instead - you start to see the problems.


What isolated nationalistic lives many people live.:(

What assumptive, short sighted views people take. :rolleyes:
 
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What assumptive, short sighted views people take. :rolleyes:

You mean not even being able to give the target of .7% or GDP to help the descedence of the people we stole our wealth from.

Would seem a bit more than short sighted to me.

Not sure about assumption considering the polls that have been done asking the people of the UK if we should give more aid.?:eek:
 
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You mean not even being able to give the target of .7% or GDP to help the descedence of the people we stole our wealth from.

Would seem a bit more than short sighted to me.

Not sure about assumption considering the polls that have been done asking the people of the UK if we should give more aid.?:eek:

Ah come on earl - thats a weak troll even by your standards.
Come on, have an opinion - leave the wiki / google arguments alone and try speaking from the heart for a bit, it may do you good. ;)
 
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Yet feel the need to blurt out about it in the second post in this thread?

Blurt it out?????

I only answered the question that you asked. I can only assume that you asked it hoping that like you, I was just a talker and not a do-er.

Action beats conversation when conversation is going nowhere

Bobby
 
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Blurt it out?????

I only answered the question that you asked. I can only assume that you asked it hoping that like you, I was just a talker and not a do-er.

Action beats conversation when conversation is going nowhere

Bobby

Hmmm, another faliure to read posts properly.

I do, rather than let a direct debit ease my conscience. Action does not beat conversation as action withouth conversation is meaningless, misdirected and unco-ordinated.
 
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I do, rather than let a direct debit ease my conscience.

Direct debit does not ease my conscience, its just the tool I use to get help those in many third world countries.

Its about leveraging the power of money in this country into healthcare, clean water, education, and supporting vaulnerable communities in other countries

Could you suggest a better way of doing it?

Bobby
 
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Ah come on earl - thats a weak troll even by your standards.
Come on, have an opinion - leave the wiki / google arguments alone and try speaking from the heart for a bit, it may do you good. ;)

Being subjective is an excellent way to avoid reality ,unless of course you happen to be the only sane person on the planet.:eek:

Emotions serve a particular personal purpose in life.

They are not supposed to solve problems on a wider basis.;)
 
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Being subjective is an excellent way to avoid reality ,unless of course you happen to be the only sane person on the planet.:eek:

Emotions serve a particular personal purpose in life.

They are not supposed to solve problems on a wider basis.;)

Earl perhaps you've heard of Leo Tolstoy the famous Russian author of "War and Peace".

During his lifetime this man tried to devise a plan to help the poor and homeless of Moscow.

He started out by going into the poorest sections of the city and giving money to beggars he found there.

He came to realize that many of these people weren't actually in need.

This was so because some of them claimed that they needed to "purchase a railway ticket home", but he saw them many days later still begging.

So he tried another tack.

He spent months assisting with the census, searching for the ones who truly were "needy".

He saw the homeless could not be helped merely by "feeding and clothing a thousand people as one feeds and drives under shelter a thousand sheep."

At last, he sadly concluded: "Of all the people I noted down, I really helped none... I did not find any unfortunates who could be made fortunate by a mere gift of money."

How true!

Today we no doubt have more poor people than there were in his day.

But charitable works are not a permanent solution to the problem.

In reality, the solution lies with Jehovah God and His Kingdom arrangement.

(Revelation 21:3-4) And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be any-more. The former things have passed away."

Will you be there to see it?
 
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"But charitable works are not a permanent solution to the problem."

Really ,so you don't feed your wife and kids,presuming they have no income of their own.?;)

I suspect since the caveman ,mankind has been sharing with others less able than them.
 
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"But charitable works are not a permanent solution to the problem."

Really ,so you don't feed your wife and kids,presuming they have no income of their own.?;)

I suspect since the caveman ,mankind has been sharing with others less able than them.

I think you are missing the point slightly.

ACCORDING to estimates by the World Food Programme, a United Nations agency for the fight against hunger, 800*million people—many of them children—are at starvation’s door.

Recently, that agency said that resources and attention that many developed nations could have applied to this situation were monopolized by other problems, such as terrorism.

The spread of infectious diseases has intensified the problem.

The agency’s Global School Feeding Report said about African countries where AIDS is rampant: “An entire generation of parents is being wiped out.

The children they leave behind are often left to fend for themselves, most lacking the basic farming know-how and life skills that typically pass from one generation to another.”

Big problem would you agree?

This would sort it all out.

(Psalm 72:16) 16*There will come to be plenty of grain on the earth; On the top of the mountains there will be an overflow. His fruit will be as in Leb′a·non, And those who are from the city will blossom like the vegetation of the earth.
 
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I think you are missing the point slightly.

ACCORDING to estimates by the World Food Programme, a United Nations agency for the fight against hunger, 800*million people—many of them children—are at starvation’s door.

Recently, that agency said that resources and attention that many developed nations could have applied to this situation were monopolized by other problems, such as terrorism.

The spread of infectious diseases has intensified the problem.

The agency’s Global School Feeding Report said about African countries where AIDS is rampant: “An entire generation of parents is being wiped out.

The children they leave behind are often left to fend for themselves, most lacking the basic farming know-how and life skills that typically pass from one generation to another.”

Big problem would you agree?

This would sort it all out.

(Psalm 72:16) 16*There will come to be plenty of grain on the earth; On the top of the mountains there will be an overflow. His fruit will be as in Leb′a·non, And those who are from the city will blossom like the vegetation of the earth.

Yes, it's a very big problem and one your God doesn't seem to have any interest in sorting out... as usual.

It's almost as if he doesn't exist.
 
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Yes, it's a very big problem and one your God doesn't seem to have any interest in sorting out... as usual.

It's almost as if he doesn't exist.

He exists, there is now doubt about that, and the outworking of his purposes are continuing, which his word the Bible gives us real insight into.
 
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In your mind perhaps.
Don't confuse opinion with fact.

Pot an kettle.

;)

Einstein famously made statements like "God does not play dice with the universe" that have inspired religious apologists to try to claim him as their own, but on other occasions, he made it clear that this was nothing but poetic metaphor.

He made his views known in letters, writing, for example: "I do not believe in a personal god and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly.

If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

On another occasion, he wrote, "the word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honorable but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."


AE
 
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:|
In your desperation to troll it seems you've lost a little coherence.

Just pointing out laddie that many of the greatest thinkers and men of reason have come to the conclusion that there may be more it than many think.

Unless of course you know more than the rest of us.:|:)
 
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Just pointing out laddie that many of the greatest thinkers and men of reason have come to the conclusion that there may be more it than many think.

Unless of course you know more than the rest of us.:|:)

The only one here claiming to have all the answers is DCE.

All I said was I consider myself to have better sources of information than someone who relies on the mass media.
 
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He exists, there is now doubt about that, and the outworking of his purposes are continuing, which his word the Bible gives us real insight into.

No doubt that God exists?

Again, you're confusing your own personal beliefs with facts.

The bible is a book DCE. It is evidence of nothing apart from the fact that our ancient and ill-informed ancestors had the ability to write.

I rather think that if God existed, we'd have more than a book written by human hand to show for it.
 
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No doubt that God exists?

Again, you're confusing your own personal beliefs with facts.

The bible is a book DCE. It is evidence of nothing apart from the fact that our ancient and ill-informed ancestors had the ability to write.

I rather think that if God existed, we'd have more than a book written by human hand to show for it.

Yes but matt, it says that god exists in the bible. What is it you don't understand!!!!!!


:D
 
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Yes but matt, it says that god exists in the bible. What is it you don't understand!!!!!!


:D

When I was a lad I once read a book that described a winter wonderland with a talking lion, witches and all manner of amazing things - and all of this was to be found in someone's wardrobe apparently.

I don't understand why explorers and scientists have failed to find this place. It sounds great!
 
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No doubt that God exists?

Again, you're confusing your own personal beliefs with facts.

The bible is a book DCE. It is evidence of nothing apart from the fact that our ancient and ill-informed ancestors had the ability to write.

I rather think that if God existed, we'd have more than a book written by human hand to show for it.

If you studied the Bible, you would know exactly what God has done, and what he is having done, at this time, and what he will be doing in the very near future.

Commenting on the Bible, which is obvious you have never studied, is like jumping over a wall, without looking to see what sort of drop is on the other side, very dangerous thing to do.

Study it, then make a comment, it would give you much more credibility in such a debate.
 
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If you studied the Bible, you would know exactly what God has done, and what he is having done, at this time, and what he will be doing in the very near future.

Commenting on the Bible, which is obvious you have never studied, is like jumping over a wall, without looking to see what sort of drop is on the other side, very dangerous thing to do.

Study it, then make a comment, it would give you much more credibility in such a debate.

If god made everything then why are there no human skeletons under the earth at the same level in earths crust as dinosaurs or neanderthals...

How come when an archeologist excavates a tall rock he finds all sorts of different rock material which contains all sorts of different life at each level.

How come when you look at the rock formation from the bottom up you see the history of evolution?

Matt is not a stupid man, i can tell. He would never take your word for anything when he has all the evidence sitting in front of him.

I am glad evolution is a fact and i am glad our lives have as much purpose as a squirrel. I am very content.

You're clearly not.

Death will come to you sir, whether you have faith in unsubstantiated gods made up by man or not.
 
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This is the greatest irony - the likes of DCE will squander the gift of life waiting for an end that will never come.

So where did this gift come from?:|

I suspect religous people are waiting for a new beginning rather than an end.

Not such a bad attitude when one comes to meet the grim reaper.:)
 
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So where did this gift come from?:|

I suspect religous people are waiting for a new beginning rather than an end.

Not such a bad attitude when one comes to meet the grim reaper.:)


It is only a gift because of the value we bestow upon it.

Wasting your life in the hope that there will be something better after you die is as ridiculous as cooking a nice big meal and watching it rot while you wait for a tastier meal to appear in it's place.

Nothing for than metaphysical passing of the buck. Time we as a species put away childish things.
 
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If you studied the Bible, you would know exactly what God has done, and what he is having done, at this time, and what he will be doing in the very near future.

Commenting on the Bible, which is obvious you have never studied, is like jumping over a wall, without looking to see what sort of drop is on the other side, very dangerous thing to do.

Study it, then make a comment, it would give you much more credibility in such a debate.

DCE, there is not one scrap of evidence to support any story or claim made in the bible and not one of the physical items described in the bible are in existence.

The content of the bible is such that to believe anything within it is to suspend belief in reality and I'm not about to do that.
 
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DCE, there is not one scrap of evidence to support any story or claim made in the bible and not one of the physical items described in the bible are in existence.

The content of the bible is such that to believe anything within it is to suspend belief in reality and I'm not about to do that.

I think if you need to come back to reality, by checking out the British Museum and reading some of this literature.

The Bible and the British Museum - Ada Habershon (g)
The Bible Student in the British Musuem - James Kitchin
The British Museum with Bible in Hand - Frank Jannaway
A Guide to the Bible Manuscripts of the British Museum - Anon
Bible Artifacts in the British Museum - Ferrell Jenkins
Biblical Texts in the British Museum - E A Wallis-Budge
Hebrew Manuscripts in the British Museum - Anon
The British Museum Library - Gertrude Rawlings
Christian Antiquities in the British Museum - 0 M Dalton
The British Museum - Historical & Descriptive - David Masson
Touring the British Museum - Stafford North
The British Museum - Its History and Treasures - Henry Shelley
The British Museum Handbook Guide for Visitors - Anon
The Lives of the Founders of the British Museum - Edward Edwards
A Handy Book of the British Museum - Thomas Nichols
Archaeology and the Bible - George Barton
Archeological Discoveries and the New Testament - Camden M Cobern
Encyclopedia of Archaeology (Vol 1) - Thomas Fosbroke
Encyclopedia of Archaeology (Vol 2) - Thomas Fosbroke
A Guide to the Egyptian Collections of the British Musuem - E A Wallace-Budge
A Dictionary of Ancient Egypt - Anon
Egyptian Antiquities in the British Museum - Samuel Sharpe
Journeys in Egypt on Behalf of the British Museum (Vol 1 ) - E A Budge
Journeys in Egypt on Behalf of the British Museum (Vol 2) - E A Budge
Hieroglyphic Texts at the British Museum - Scott Moncrieff
Assyrian Texts of the British Museum - Samuel Alden Smith
Assyrian Antiquies of the British Museum - Anon
Magicians & Astrologers of Nineveh in the British Museum (Vol 1) - Reginald Thompson
Magicians & Astrologers of Nineveh in the British Museum (Vol 2) - Reginald Thompson
The Prisms of Esarhaddon &Ashurbanipal- R.Campbeli Thompson
Babylonian Kings in the British Museum - D J Wiseman
Babylonian Antiquities in the British Museum - E A Wallis-Budge
Discoveries in the Ruins of Nineveh & Babylon - Austin H layard (g)
A History of Babylon - L W King
Ur of the Chaldees - J E Curtis
Cyrus the Great - Jacob Abbott
Darius the Mede - Joseph Horner
Sculptures and Inscriptions of Darius the Great - l W King
Media J Babylon and Persia - Zenaide Rago2in
Greek and Roman Life - Trustees of the British Musuem
The Tomb of Alexander - Edward Clarke
The Gods of Greece at the British Musuem - Anon
The Sculptures of the Parthenon in the British Museum - W Clowes
The History of Greek and Roman Philosophy and Science - Charles Blomfielc
Greek &. Roman Antiquities in the British Museum - Edward Cook
Greek and Roman Reliefs in the British Mueum - A H Smith
The Roman Empire - H Stuart Jones
Ancient History of Rome - John Russell
Temples, Tombs &. Monuments of Ancient Rome - William Adams
Handbook of Ancient Roman Marbles - H W Pullen
Explorations in the Bible Lands - H V Hilprecht
History of the People of Israel- Carl Cornill
Carchemish - Leonard Woolley
The Rosetta Stone - E A Budge
The Historical Accuracy of the Bible - Samuel Kinns
Stones are Crying Out - Ellen Henrietta Ranyard
Digitising the Codex Sinaiticus - Anon
The Manuscripts of the British Museum - Julius Gilson
The First Printed English New Testament - Edward Arber
Greek Manuscripts of the Holy Gospels - Frederick Scrivener
Illustrations from the Book of Genesis - M R James
Illustrations from the Book of Job - William Blake
Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts - Sir Frederic Kenyon
The History of the English Bible - 5 G Ayres
A Guide to Exhibited Manuscripts - Trustees of the British Museum
The Library of the British Museum - Richard Sims
Guide to the Animals &. Plants of the Bible - British Museum Publications

I have these all in my reference libarary, so I'm pretty well up to date with all the evidence.

Plus what is contained in the Bible, which is not refutable, is the people in it, really existed.
 
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Oh come on ,the dinosaurs ate them all.

Every 5 year old knows that.:p

If they were eaten we would find human bones in the stomach. The reason we do not is because the dinos existed wayyyy before humans which puts to bed the idea adam and eve were created first.

Notice how the bible literalist amongst us runs away from these questions.

How did noah fit two sperm whales in his ark

125year-old-man-laughing.jpg
 
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I think if you need to come back to reality, by checking out the British Museum and reading some of this literature.

The Bible and the British Museum - Ada Habershon (g)
The Bible Student in the British Musuem - James Kitchin
The British Museum with Bible in Hand - Frank Jannaway
A Guide to the Bible Manuscripts of the British Museum - Anon
Bible Artifacts in the British Museum - Ferrell Jenkins
Biblical Texts in the British Museum - E A Wallis-Budge
Hebrew Manuscripts in the British Museum - Anon
The British Museum Library - Gertrude Rawlings
Christian Antiquities in the British Museum - 0 M Dalton
The British Museum - Historical & Descriptive - David Masson
Touring the British Museum - Stafford North
The British Museum - Its History and Treasures - Henry Shelley
The British Museum Handbook Guide for Visitors - Anon
The Lives of the Founders of the British Museum - Edward Edwards
A Handy Book of the British Museum - Thomas Nichols
Archaeology and the Bible - George Barton
Archeological Discoveries and the New Testament - Camden M Cobern
Encyclopedia of Archaeology (Vol 1) - Thomas Fosbroke
Encyclopedia of Archaeology (Vol 2) - Thomas Fosbroke
A Guide to the Egyptian Collections of the British Musuem - E A Wallace-Budge
A Dictionary of Ancient Egypt - Anon
Egyptian Antiquities in the British Museum - Samuel Sharpe
Journeys in Egypt on Behalf of the British Museum (Vol 1 ) - E A Budge
Journeys in Egypt on Behalf of the British Museum (Vol 2) - E A Budge
Hieroglyphic Texts at the British Museum - Scott Moncrieff
Assyrian Texts of the British Museum - Samuel Alden Smith
Assyrian Antiquies of the British Museum - Anon
Magicians & Astrologers of Nineveh in the British Museum (Vol 1) - Reginald Thompson
Magicians & Astrologers of Nineveh in the British Museum (Vol 2) - Reginald Thompson
The Prisms of Esarhaddon &Ashurbanipal- R.Campbeli Thompson
Babylonian Kings in the British Museum - D J Wiseman
Babylonian Antiquities in the British Museum - E A Wallis-Budge
Discoveries in the Ruins of Nineveh & Babylon - Austin H layard (g)
A History of Babylon - L W King
Ur of the Chaldees - J E Curtis
Cyrus the Great - Jacob Abbott
Darius the Mede - Joseph Horner
Sculptures and Inscriptions of Darius the Great - l W King
Media J Babylon and Persia - Zenaide Rago2in
Greek and Roman Life - Trustees of the British Musuem
The Tomb of Alexander - Edward Clarke
The Gods of Greece at the British Musuem - Anon
The Sculptures of the Parthenon in the British Museum - W Clowes
The History of Greek and Roman Philosophy and Science - Charles Blomfielc
Greek &. Roman Antiquities in the British Museum - Edward Cook
Greek and Roman Reliefs in the British Mueum - A H Smith
The Roman Empire - H Stuart Jones
Ancient History of Rome - John Russell
Temples, Tombs &. Monuments of Ancient Rome - William Adams
Handbook of Ancient Roman Marbles - H W Pullen
Explorations in the Bible Lands - H V Hilprecht
History of the People of Israel- Carl Cornill
Carchemish - Leonard Woolley
The Rosetta Stone - E A Budge
The Historical Accuracy of the Bible - Samuel Kinns
Stones are Crying Out - Ellen Henrietta Ranyard
Digitising the Codex Sinaiticus - Anon
The Manuscripts of the British Museum - Julius Gilson
The First Printed English New Testament - Edward Arber
Greek Manuscripts of the Holy Gospels - Frederick Scrivener
Illustrations from the Book of Genesis - M R James
Illustrations from the Book of Job - William Blake
Our Bible and the Ancient Manuscripts - Sir Frederic Kenyon
The History of the English Bible - 5 G Ayres
A Guide to Exhibited Manuscripts - Trustees of the British Museum
The Library of the British Museum - Richard Sims
Guide to the Animals &. Plants of the Bible - British Museum Publications

I have these all in my reference libarary, so I'm pretty well up to date with all the evidence.

Plus what is contained in the Bible, which is not refutable, is the people in it, really existed.

More books...

If I wrote a book that told you there is no such thing as God would you stop all this silly nonsense and join us here in the real world?

It's probably the only way anyone will ever get through to you.
 
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More books...

If I wrote a book that told you there is no such thing as God would you stop all this silly nonsense and join us here in the real world?

It's probably the only way anyone will ever get through to you.

I wouldn't believe you, there is too much evidence,
 
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