Are Directory Businesses nackered?

[newstart]

As the title says, Are Directory Businesses nackered?

 

[crphillips]

What like yell, Thomson, scoot? Yes.

 

[amac]

What like yell, Thomson, scoot? Yes.

I agree - Google (search) and now Facebook (social networking) are literally eating their lunch. I guess you can add Yahoo to that list as well. Human nature basically has always made us curious creates - we love to search - but it appears they way we do it is constantly evolving.

 

[businessfunding]

What like yell, Thomson, scoot? Yes.

Lets not bury them just yet, there tends to be a circularity to these things and I wouln't be at all surprise to see a rebirth or new form of physical media.

 

[Talay]

Lets not bury them just yet, there tends to be a circularity to these things and I wouln't be at all surprise to see a rebirth or new form of physical media.

Would you risk your kids' education fund in them ?

Doomed I say, doomed.

 

[crphillips]

Yell have been trying to evolve for years without success......they're just too expensive.

I was talking to someone the other week who works for the printers that print the yellow pages. Apparently they're stopping printing the books in two years.

 

[Talay]

Yell have been trying to evolve for years without success......they're just too expensive.

I was talking to someone the other week who works for the printers that print the yellow pages. Apparently they're stopping printing the books in two years.

Should have stopped years ago. It was obvious in the dot com boom that printed directories were on the way out. A strategy should have been put in place then to withdraw from the market without delay.

They had their time before you could search google. Now they are as useful as a dinosaur bone; for historical reference only.

 

[makemoney]

Get rid of them, save us money (I somehow doubt that anyway) I haven’t used one for years, at least save a tree! I use the web or phone to search, does 118 work?

 

[10032012]

As the title says, Are Directory Businesses nackered?

I don't think the paid for online ones ever really took off.

I cannot see why you would pay to bring content to a website that attempts to convert its web traffic into money by several on page adverts. There are better FREE alternatives.

 

[khalid1]

There's still a place for physical and online directories it is just how they are monetized that is the problem.

 

[David Griffiths]

Online directories can be a pain the proverbial. All too often I do a search for a local business and nearly all the front page is taken up by directories, most of which don't even have the basic details right. My own firm is listed by several directories who have the address that we left more than six years ago.

And the paid ones aren't much more useful. They claim to be a listing of firms in X, but evidently they are only a listing of the firms in X that give them money.

Paper directories like Yellow Pages and Thomson are improving every year- they are getting smaller so they don't take up as much space in the recycling box!

 

[Talay]

... Paper directories like Yellow Pages and Thomson are improving every year- they are getting smaller so they don't take up as much space in the recycling box!

Very true !

 

[Fresco_Creative]

I have a couple of customers, such as a window cleaner and also aerial installer who do get business from the yellow pages. However my accountant who is in there doesn't. I think a lot of this can be down to the level of surrounding competition.

For them, they are merely in the best position as there only a handful of other options from which to choose from.

 

[Laurenpears]

Used thompson local when we first started and was promised the earth and xxx amount of searches etc and came back with bugger all after 12 months!
Problem is, nobody uses these services anymore, theyre old and dated, i really hate recieving the latest yellow pages on my doorstep as its a waste of cupboard space these days.
I use Google and generally choose the first few suggestions of it, failing that it will be through facebook!

 

[Office Cleaning]

Yes, doomed, I'm surprised they've lasted as long. Someone seems to think yell is worth a last spin of dice judging by their advertising spend recently, as John Cleese says in Clockwise " It's not the despair, Laura. I can take the despair. It's the hope I can't stand."

I remember using yell (yellow pages before the desperate re-branding) with reps coming round each year with more and more fragmented regions and ever increasing books and prices, first an ad in London region would cost you x, then it was London central, then a separate book for London ec1 etc, they had their day & fair few quid from me.

To go all seo for a mo Yell (like Yahoo directory) did have some google pr pull at one point if you were listed on it, which might be why it did ok for 1st couple of years.

 

[Carsie]

Just like on line forums - certainly are if they can't spell....

 

[newstart]

Should have been more transparent, i'm looking at setting up a holiday cottage & B&B directory/portal for a certain area that will alow for online bookings and the accommodation provider can login to update their own listing for a set price per year.

My self learned seo has kept me on first page for quite a while, over 16 years involvement in providing accomodation as a business so have the background.

 

[90DC]

My netbook is half the thickness of my local Yellow Pages and my phone is even smaller. From these devices, I have access to a greater number of businesses and more importantly, can find out about these businesses before using them.

I get the impression that back in the day, if you had enough money for a half page advert in the Yellow Pages, you'd make a tidy sum as a result of it. These days, it's different. You have to be at the top of Google, you need to be 'socially active', you need people talking about you, good reviews and be listed literally everywhere. Despite this, I prefer the internet.

 

[newstart]

90DC i'd agree, ive been given inside stats that only 69% of loacal providers are online with even less actualy able to take online bookings out of those online and not online at all.

 

[kodajo]

I realise that self-promotion isn't what this forum is about (so I won't mention the site name), but as you are talking about online business directories I think you may be interested to hear it from the perspective of somebody who has just launched a new one.

Traditional business directories are dying, I would agree. Existing directories like yell.com and thomson haven't evolved with the online networking revolution caused by the likes of facebook.

What any business directory needs to have is a networking side to it, in order to keep businesses coming back to it and using it properly.

Traditional directories like yell also don't allow a business to put enough information on a listing, again this is a problem I hope we have solved.

And of course, any successful directory has to be 100% free.

 

[Talay]

I have a couple of customers, such as a window cleaner and also aerial installer who do get business from the yellow pages. However my accountant who is in there doesn't. I think a lot of this can be down to the level of surrounding competition.

For them, they are merely in the best position as there only a handful of other options from which to choose from.

Let me hazard a guess that customers for these erstwhile businesses need to look in the yellow pages simply because they first looked online and found that your average window cleaner and aerial installer hasn't bothered to set up even a one page website whereas all the accountants can be readily found through google.

 

[popunder]

Should have been more transparent, i'm looking at setting up a holiday cottage & B&B directory/portal for a certain area that will alow for online bookings and the accommodation provider can login to update their own listing for a set price per year.

My self learned seo has kept me on first page for quite a while, over 16 years involvement in providing accomodation as a business so have the background.

Niche directories like this can work especially if they add value by having online booking. The collection of lots of relevant content under one domain will help it compete in Google searches, for the local area specifically, against the bigger sites (ownersdirect etc). Also a site which comprehensively covered a particular holiday town would be useful to visitors, so they can find out about accommodation, attractions, events, restaurants and so on. But:

a) Most towns already have at least one site like this often run by he local authority or tourist body, and many more half-hearted and failed sites slowly fading away online
b) Accommodation providers already have multiple ways to spend their marketing budget so how many will decide to switch or spend more with you (and why).
c) Don't forget most business owners think that everything online should be free, so you'll need to persuade them that your directory will bring them business they wouldn't already get from their own website, yell, the other websites they're on, the magazines they advertise in etc. A very tough sell.

Find out how many people will actually pay to be on your site (and how much) before you spend too much time and money on it.

 

[ThePublisher]

Our YP arrived last week. It has 20% less pages than last year. I still have the 2006/7 version (it's under a monitor on a desk to bring the monitor up to the right height). The difference between the two is truly astonishing.

 

[Call Tracker]

We monitor advertising response and have a wealth of data on how directories generate response. The answer is that paper directories do work albeit with the following caveats:-

a) The best results are for local businesses and services that customers do not want to drive miles for
b) The best results are for companies that provide "emergancy" style servcies ie plumbers, electricians etc

The key to a good diectory listing is using a geographic number that is relevant to the area you are advertising in (ie for Sevenoaks use 01732, Bedford 01234). If you want to be cheaky you can buy geographic numbers that do not relate to where you are to give you a local feel.

The reason why directories work is that although we are all using the internet, if you have an emergency (ie a broken pipe), reaching for your yellow pages is quicker than firing up the PC etc. Furthermore, do not underestimate the amount of people who do not have the internet or very slow broadband and like paper.

The other point about paper directories is that they hang around like a bad smell and you will still get calls some years after they have been published. We have examples of advertisers still getting 100's of calls from the Yellow Pages adverts years after they went to publication.

Ultimately the success of a directory comes down to:-
a) The relevance \ need of your service in the locality
b) The demographic of the population (ie can they get fast internet!)
c) The cost to place an advert and the the cost per lead - if you are not measuring how do you know if it is successful and it is good value?

 

[DataDealer]

Having worked in the industry for 15 years i can tell you thomson and yell are dying slowly, they just cannot compete with google and are desperately trying to seek ways of bringing their business on line as well, 8 years ago Thomsons made a profit of 28m when i was there, a year ago they made a profit of just 5m - i appreciate thats still a profit but the sales have dropped massively, a full page ad used to be about 5k but now you can talk them into a full page ad for £500 - crazy.
Thomsons are owned by an Italian directory business called Seat Paginalle who are in billions of debt, in the last two years Thomsons have made over 400 redundancies, they did them in batches of 20 so that they didnt have to announce it publicly, all their decent sales reps have left and they cannot afford to pay the wages they used to so they are having to settle for less skilled sales people, they are on a slippery slope heading downwards, i havent heard a decent success story about Thomson or Yell in years.
The digital era of marketing has killed the industry.

 

[London Bookkeepers]

I think the paper directories are pretty much doomed. I'm sure some people stil use them but a v small proportion compared to how it used to be 10-20 yrs ago.
I think some online directories may be OK though. Don't tend to use them myself though - I tend to do a Google search for most things......

 

[JonLake]

I run a Business Directory for Torquay and one for Plymouth and despite having very good Google rankings (Page 1 Number 1 for the Torquay one) I get about 2 new paying Businesses a month. And that is at a couple of quid a month to list!!

I only run it as an aside to several other online ventures so it is not a problem financially but unfortunately local businesses on the whole still want something for nothing. As someone else stated it is a very hard sell.

I also think that many people will Google for example "plumbers in Torquay" rather than "Torquay Business Directory", so it is more viable for individual businesses to appear at the top of Google in their own right - thru Google Places for example.

In my opinion I would not invest money in building your directory hoping that it will make you a fortune. As an aside to other ventures it can bring in some small change - from my experience!!

Hope that helps

 

[blackout]

Where I live we get 2 free weekly advert booklets delivered every week, The Swift Flash (5 pages of A4), and An Advert To Offer (9 pages of A4), they're the best way of advertising to the local area imo, they read like an advert only yellow pages, and some companies change their special offers on a weekly basis.
Both of them seem as strong as ever, in fact I think there is a 3rd monthly one as well - Lutterworth Journal.

When people need a plumber or whatever they usually look in those. Last time I used a phonebook/yellowpages was when looking for an emergency glazer after a break-in.

 

[Cobby]

Online directories can be a pain the proverbial. All too often I do a search for a local business and nearly all the front page is taken up by directories, most of which don't even have the basic details right. My own firm is listed by several directories who have the address that we left more than six years ago.

Came to post this, they're a damn nuisance. They list incorrect info deliberately, expecting/hoping you will sign up with them to correct it. If I had more cash to hand I'd try to find out if they were breaking some sort of law so I could take action against them.

I realise that self-promotion isn't what this forum is about (so I won't mention the site name), but as you are talking about online business directories I think you may be interested to hear it from the perspective of somebody who has just launched a new one.

Stop it already. It's hard enough with people trying to get their businesses listed directly on google against their competitors, it's even harder when they have to compete against some unwanted middleman watering down the results with a listing containing blatantly wrong information. It's parasitical and unwanted.

 

[UKSBD]

Stop it already. It's hard enough with people trying to get their businesses listed directly on google against their competitors, it's even harder when they have to compete against some unwanted middleman watering down the results with a listing containing blatantly wrong information. It's parasitical and unwanted.

The directories who just set up listings like that are a pet hate of mine.
They just do in the hope the business owner will register to update the listing.

The worst ones are the ones who have contact forms on the page which people think go through to the business.

I found my business on one, sent an email, but it never came to me.

 

[Talay]

Where I live we get 2 free weekly advert booklets delivered every week, The Swift Flash (5 pages of A4), and An Advert To Offer (9 pages of A4), they're the best way of advertising to the local area imo, they read like an advert only yellow pages, and some companies change their special offers on a weekly basis.
Both of them seem as strong as ever, in fact I think there is a 3rd monthly one as well - Lutterworth Journal.

When people need a plumber or whatever they usually look in those. Last time I used a phonebook/yellowpages was when looking for an emergency glazer after a break-in.

We get a local free paper which doesn't quite have the right boundaries for us at present but the main one is an A5 booklet once a month. We're working with them on an advertising feature at present. Plonking adverts in directories doesn't even feature on the radar.

 

[taska]

The only reason I would recommend that a business advertises in an offline (yellow pages, Thomson) directory is if they are selling a product or service aimed at the 60+ age group, who's first instinct is to look in a paper directory, even if they have a computer. (I know that's an ageist generalisation, but I'm sure you get my point!)

Otherwise, they are a waste of money.

Online directories are only worthwhile if they are active and social in some way - for example Yelp, who encourage reviews.

My POV, anyway.

 

[Talay]

The only reason I would recommend that a business advertises in an offline (yellow pages, Thomson) directory is if they are selling a product or service aimed at the 60+ age group, who's first instinct is to look in a paper directory, even if they have a computer. (I know that's an ageist generalisation, but I'm sure you get my point!)

Otherwise, they are a waste of money.

Online directories are only worthwhile if they are active and social in some way - for example Yelp, who encourage reviews.

My POV, anyway.

Or you could just target them with fear campaigns on the telly fronted by a formally "credible" and "trustworthy" figure from their era such as Parkinson.

 

[taska]

Or you could just target them with fear campaigns on the telly fronted by a formally "credible" and "trustworthy" figure from their era such as Parkinson.

Ha, yes, you're right! But then I think that age group are possibly the only ones to sit through adverts anyway - we either mute the TV, or fast forward if we have recorded it.

 

[newstart]

The idea of this directory/portal is that people can search for a certain type of accommodation in a certain area, view its details, view its availabily and make a booking online so useful for both the customer & accommodation provider its more than just a listing.

 

[Cobby]

The idea of this directory/portal is that people can search for a certain type of accommodation in a certain area, view its details, view its availabily and make a booking online so useful for both the customer & accommodation provider its more than just a listing.

That's an agent, not a directory/portal. If you want to set up as an agent, then do so. As a directory business you will inevitably end up with dead links and incorrect information and you'll just be cluttering up search results for people trying to find the accommodation directly.
Just FYI I would never, ever book accommodation through a directory/portal page, and I don't think I know any people that would.

 

[mickeym]

When I first started up one of my companies about four years back we used to get a lot of calls from the Yellow Pages, Thomson, BT Phonebook etc trying to sell us premium advertising in the paper directories for anywhere between £500 - £3000 per annum. We never took them up on it.

Over the last two years we get more and more calls from the same companies who are now claiming affiliation with Google and are pushing web design, SEO services and PPC along with their own Yell.com ads, Thomson.com ads and so on. They don't seem interested in selling the paper directories anymore. I still don't take them up on their offers.

Business model has changed. The constant barrage of sales calls hasn't, and I think they seem more desperate to sell than ever.

 

[Talay]

When I first started up one of my companies about four years back we used to get a lot of calls from the Yellow Pages, Thomson, BT Phonebook etc trying to sell us premium advertising in the paper directories for anywhere between £500 - £3000 per annum. We never took them up on it.

Over the last two years we get more and more calls from the same companies who are now claiming affiliation with Google and are pushing web design, SEO services and PPC along with their own Yell.com ads, Thomson.com ads and so on. They don't seem interested in selling the paper directories anymore. I still don't take them up on their offers.

Business model has changed. The constant barrage of sales calls hasn't, and I think they seem more desperate to sell than ever.

The thing with the physical directories though was that they could guarantee your listing and for a fee, it could be placed roughly where you wanted it in the book. With SEO and other such promotions, there is no guarantee and thus less tangibility and even if you are well listed today, there are thousands of others out there trying to make sure that their business and not yours is well listed tomorrow. At least with directories, you were listed at your chosen position for the lifetime of the directory. Google listings are at best 24 hours I suspect.

 

[Swisaw]

I think there are people inside Yell trying to undermine it. Last year when I booked an advert for this year in East London Yell, they corrupted it on purpose. When they sent me proof copy of the advert for my approval, I found my web page ur written wrongly as WW.2move.me.uk. I asked them four times to correct it but they didn't. Now no one ever makes such mistake unless on purpose. You can make any mistake but you never write 'www' wrongly as 'ww'.

 

[ThePublisher]

You can make any mistake but you never write 'www' wrongly as 'ww'.

Rubbish. Easy mistake to make. And not like it will actually make any difference to people finding your website.

If you phone my doctor, you'll find the receptionist suggesting you book online at ww.blahblah, and it's been the same message for several years!