Dealing with complainers who want a refund.

[BTWales]

Don't get too many of these fortunately but there do seem be one or two people out there willing to try it on.

Recently had someone who only part paid but still wants a refund. Think they've either just changed their mind and dont like the effect or had planned this from the start.....

 

[OldWelshGuy]

you need to sit them down and ask them why they feel they have a right to a refund. You need to do it face to face, don't let hem do it from distance as they can lie through their teeth that way.

 

[vvaannmmaann]

remove their botox fluid?

 

[Ashley_Price]

Well, I guess the first question to ask is, what do your T&C say about refunds?

 

[BTWales]

To be honest, the document they sign pretty much makes it clear what is what. However, its apparent that people dont listen.

This particular person has part paid for the treatment but still owes £370. Getting some really nasty texts demanding refund of the money already paid.

Shes obviously been googling etc and seems to have a view on the quality of treatment done which is a bit much since it was all done properly.

Tempted to just keep the money paid (it barely covers costs) and forget about it.

Not interested in getting into argument with her about it. Probably going to reply in writing to her telling her that she owes money but we're severing the business relationship and we dont want to hear from her.

 

[Bri]

Not interested in getting into argument with her about it. Probably going to reply in writing to her telling her that she owes money but we're severing the business relationship and we dont want to hear from her.

When you work out the time and effort you take chasing people like this your course of action is a sensible one, after all this is time you can devote to other full paying clients. If the course of treatment is not complete shes the one losing out. When you do write to her, and I know this is the modern world but texting in business is foreign to me. At least you have a written record of the complaints.Hopefully you have replied by ringing or writing a letter to her stating your T&C's and not responding back by text.

Sometimes Google isnt our friend, information doesnt make that person an expert only informed.

 

[BTWales]

When you work out the time and effort you take chasing people like this your course of action is a sensible one, after all this is time you can devote to other full paying clients. If the course of treatment is not complete shes the one losing out. When you do write to her, and I know this is the modern world but texting in business is foreign to me. At least you have a written record of the complaints.Hopefully you have replied by ringing or writing a letter to her stating your T&C's and not responding back by text.

Sometimes Google isnt our friend, information doesnt make that person an expert only informed.

Yeh. Thats the problem. We're a small family business and dont really want to get into all this. Some of the texts recieved off her are really borderline - gets worse and I'll be contacting the police to be honest.

Thing is treatment is complete and she knows it. Either she had this planned all along (pay £200 and then blag the rest) or shes changed her mind or something?

Its our word against hers so I dont see we;re going to get anywhere.

Going to write her a letter tonight outlining our stance, but refusing to accept liability. Not sure how to word it.

Bit disgusted that someone can do this. People seem to think that they can kick off and get something for free I think. Total scumbag.

 

[BTWales]

remove their botox fluid?

Funnily enough the treatment was for dermal fillers. Her argument is that she needs us to refund her so she can pay to have it removed.

 

[Bri]

Thing is treatment is complete and she knows it. Either she had this planned all along (pay £200 and then blag the rest) or shes changed her mind or something?

Unfortunately my friend thats what happens, it wont be the first time for you and wont be the last, thats the nature of the beast. At least you'll be better prepared for the next one.

 

[BTWales]

Unfortunately my friend thats what happens, it wont be the first time for you and wont be the last, thats the nature of the beast. At least you'll be better prepared for the next one.

Yeh. Must admit 99% of people are fair but it seems there are the odd few out there who are just scumbags.

Personally, I cant see how someone can do it. Don't get me wrong I'm first to complain if somethings not right and will stick to my guns to get it sorted if the supplier is in the wrong.

But this scamming someone because you think you can get away with it is just plain wrong....

 

[Bri]

Personally, I cant see how someone can do it. Don't get me wrong I'm first to complain if somethings not right and will stick to my guns to get it sorted if the supplier is in the wrong.

Hoist by your own petard there.

 

[BTWales]

Hoist by your own petard there.

IF the supplier is wrong. Theres a big difference with a legitimate complaint to poor service and taking the piss and trying it on.

 

[90DC]

I've had one or two of these. One in particular was quoted £360 for a day's work, (two men) and listed 'problem' after 'problem' (very picky) and wanted to pay £100.

If it is a genuine customer with genuine concerns, we sort it out for them, no fuss. We'd prefer to sort problems out etc. and customers are made aware of this, but these types don't want problems solving, they just don't want to pay the full price.

 

[Psl]

To be honest, the document they sign pretty much makes it clear what is what. However, its apparent that people dont listen.

This particular person has part paid for the treatment but still owes £370. Getting some really nasty texts demanding refund of the money already paid.

Shes obviously been googling etc and seems to have a view on the quality of treatment done which is a bit much since it was all done properly.

Tempted to just keep the money paid (it barely covers costs) and forget about it.

Not interested in getting into argument with her about it. Probably going to reply in writing to her telling her that she owes money but we're severing the business relationship and we dont want to hear from her.

If you have signed documents that have T&C's then take the initiative and send her a solicitors letter, £25-£50, demanding the balance.If you don't hear from her again it's job done.

 

[BTWales]

I've had one or two of these. One in particular was quoted £360 for a day's work, (two men) and listed 'problem' after 'problem' (very picky) and wanted to pay £100.

If it is a genuine customer with genuine concerns, we sort it out for them, no fuss. We'd prefer to sort problems out etc. and customers are made aware of this, but these types don't want problems solving, they just don't want to pay the full price.

Yep. Funnily enough both problem customers we've had have been the same. Refuse to speak to us, refuse to let us visit to sort the problem. All they want is a refund.

For some reason the one this time seems intent on sending text messages but wont answer her mobile and wont respond to voice mail messages. Not getting into a text argument with her so now I've left a message saying I will respond in writing.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

I don't know anything about the cosmetics industry but would have thought that it would be reasonable to tell this particular customer that in your opinion the work carried out was done to a high standard and that she has gotten what she paid for; if she is unhappy with this it is her responsibility to seek a second opinion from a licensened/authorised independent body or (if there is one) somebody from whatever Association governs the practise standards of your industry. You will only act if it can be proven that the work you did was not up to standard.

If she has a case she will no doubt pursue it, if she knows perfectly well that she's simply trying to blag a cheap face job then she won't be able to get anyone to say otherwise and will have stop hassling you. Sounds like she's trying it on ........ stand your ground but make sure that you keep proper records of ALL correspondence/communication with this customer. Good luck!

 

[Neky]

Hey,

I know you said your terms and conditions cover everything, but what do they say about paying the balance of a treatment if the client is unhappy with the results?

If you would like I can have a look over the letter before you send it to the client to ensure you aren't accepting any liability? I have some contract law experience. You do not want this client to decide to sue you.

Neky

 

[BTWales]

I don't know anything about the cosmetics industry but would have thought that it would be reasonable to tell this particular customer that in your opinion the work carried out was done to a high standard and that she has gotten what she paid for; if she is unhappy with this it is her responsibility to seek a second opinion from a licensened/authorised independent body or (if there is one) somebody from whatever Association governs the practise standards of your industry. You will only act if it can be proven that the work you did was not up to standard.

If she has a case she will no doubt pursue it, if she knows perfectly well that she's simply trying to blag a cheap face job then she won't be able to get anyone to say otherwise and will have stop hassling you. Sounds like she's trying it on ........ stand your ground but make sure that you keep proper records of ALL correspondence/communication with this customer. Good luck!

Its a problem - people have unrealistic expectations. No matter how many times you tell them or documents they sign, some people just dont listen. It gets to the point where you feel embarrassed because you're treating people like children by repeating it so many times.

Nothing is guaranteed with the treatments. Everyone reacts a little differently. In effect, their paying for the practitioner to provide 'some' improvements but these are never definite.

Of course, what happens when it doesnt meet their expectations is that they're straight on google and suddenly become experts.

Like I said, in both cases now, the complainants have refused to talk about it and have refused to allow us to take a look. In both cases, we've been 100% sure that everything was done 100% perfectly.

Its getting to a point where we're having to try and work out if the client is this sort of person and potentially refuse to do any work.

Also, another theory I have is this. We've had loads of problems with people cancelling their treatment on the morning etc. It seems as if a lot of women (not being sexist but its mostly women) really want it done, but wake up on the day, reality hits that its going to cost a few quid and so they cancel. I'm beginning to wonder if the two chancers we've experienced have done the same yet gone so far as to have the treatment done but then thought oh no I just spent a fortune I cant afford ! In both cases, they were absolutely fine after treatment but things seem to change by the end of the day (possibly involvement from partner when they realise how much they've spent!)

 

[BTWales]

Hey,

I know you said your terms and conditions cover everything, but what do they say about paying the balance of a treatment if the client is unhappy with the results?

If you would like I can have a look over the letter before you send it to the client to ensure you aren't accepting any liability? I have some contract law experience. You do not want this client to decide to sue you.

Neky

Well basically its medical consent form that covers us and explains the issues rather than T+cs. We dont really have this - maybe we should.

Probably now will just put it in writing that they owe this money, and, as such, we cant do anything for them and dont want to hear from them again. Nothing in writing about the total cost so I guess even if I took her to court she could deny not paying anyway.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

let her walk is the simple answer

 

[90DC]

Is it unreasonable to suggest that the entire balance is paid before people receive their botox in the future?

Obviously, you wouldn't really want to do this if 99% of your customers pay their balance without quibble.

A comment you made about them being fine immediately after treatment and then find fault when they're hiding behind the lines of email, text and telephone calls seems familiar. I'd say they are chancers, they couldn't afford the treatment and their other halves were probably disgusted at the price and maybe this could have been a cause, but I suspect the women knew what they were doing.

I'd suggest that paperwork is key. Hold them down in having some detailed terms and conditions written. Chase up future debts, but know when to stop, (A customer owing £30 is not worth the hassle, a customer owing £100 may need a couple of telephone calls and letters, a customer owing hundreds is the type that never intended to pay up and further action would ideally be needed, but try not to focus too much time dwelling on the past, as that is time you could be spending in more important areas of your business.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

obvious question, why not accept credit/debit cards?

 

[BTWales]

obvious question, why not accept credit/debit cards?

Cost mainly but looking into this bearing in mind how much we're going to lose here....

 

[BTWales]

Is it unreasonable to suggest that the entire balance is paid before people receive their botox in the future?

Obviously, you wouldn't really want to do this if 99% of your customers pay their balance without quibble.

A comment you made about them being fine immediately after treatment and then find fault when they're hiding behind the lines of email, text and telephone calls seems familiar. I'd say they are chancers, they couldn't afford the treatment and their other halves were probably disgusted at the price and maybe this could have been a cause, but I suspect the women knew what they were doing.

I'd suggest that paperwork is key. Hold them down in having some detailed terms and conditions written. Chase up future debts, but know when to stop, (A customer owing £30 is not worth the hassle, a customer owing £100 may need a couple of telephone calls and letters, a customer owing hundreds is the type that never intended to pay up and further action would ideally be needed, but try not to focus too much time dwelling on the past, as that is time you could be spending in more important areas of your business.

Yeh. to be honest from now on we might start politely asking new customers to pay at the beginning. I'm guessing most people wouldnt be offended and would be horrified at some peoples behaviour.

Being in business has opened my eyes to how some people behave though - I find it really depressing that someone can be like this.

As I've also found out, just because you're right doesnt mean your going to get paid and sometimes its too much hassle.

Personally, I'd have a crack with the small claims at this woman. £30 cost is worth it just to have a go at her. But wife is upset about the whole thing and wants to move on....

 

[TODonnell]

I did read once that you spend 80% of your time dealing with 2% of your customers.

Whatever you do, don't do it when you're wound up. Especially sending letters or emails, as they can be used in evidence. Cool down, assess what leverage you have, then proceed calmly. Give them nothing to play with.

Meanwhile, get on with getting more customers.

 

[Storage Prices]

I'd echo what Adamchy says - always be objective and rational in your correspondence.

Think as a judge would think if it went to court - if you are offering to put the problem right, and the customer is refusing, then they are not letting you resolve the issue, and they are in the wrong.

Customers have to be seen to give companies sufficient opportunity to resolve issues in most instances, and this particular customer is clearly not allowing you to do this.

Issue a solicitor's letter demanding the payment and pursue it. And if the customer continues to not pay, and simultaneously continues to prevent you from putting it right, then I'd say the courts would look favourably on you, not the unreasonable customer.

Document all correspondence, make sure it's all in writing, and build a strong case against the customer.

I'd pursue it all the way.

 

[Borghesehouse]

I'd make it clear from the beginning there is no refund available, if they are happy to use your services then they will pay up front! I would only give a refund if you feel you haven't done a satisfactory job.

Gotta be tough!

 

[Bobb1979]

Its a problem - people have unrealistic expectations. No matter how many times you tell them or documents they sign, some people just dont listen. It gets to the point where you feel embarrassed because you're treating people like children by repeating it so many times.

.

I completely agree and sympathise with you on this statement. I have found myself in similar situations a handful of times and the danger is you get paranoid and add terms for future clients or, like you say, treat them like children.

Theres always someone who is out to get money from you or not pay and its absolutely infuriating and I see it as theft from me when somoene doesnt pay - i know that sweems a bit strong, but when you run your own business it feels very personal

 

[Malchy Dorris]

I completely agree and sympathise with you on this statement. I have found myself in similar situations a handful of times and the danger is you get paranoid and add terms for future clients or, like you say, treat them like children.

Theres always someone who is out to get money from you or not pay and its absolutely infuriating and I see it as theft from me when somoene doesnt pay - i know that sweems a bit strong, but when you run your own business it feels very personal

Sit back and take a good look at the problem and determine how big or small it is. Sometimes during the event the problem seems bigger.

If it's not that many clients in the year that have payment issues then i wouldn't start charging up front cause it's working ok for the majority. If it's an unacceptable amount of people then yea i would suggest trying out new systems of payment and see how they go.

Having said that maybe taking final payment on the last day of treatment is a wise thing to do regardless though!

 

[BTWales]

I completely agree and sympathise with you on this statement. I have found myself in similar situations a handful of times and the danger is you get paranoid and add terms for future clients or, like you say, treat them like children.

Theres always someone who is out to get money from you or not pay and its absolutely infuriating and I see it as theft from me when somoene doesnt pay - i know that sweems a bit strong, but when you run your own business it feels very personal

Know exactly how you feel. You work hard and do an honest job and there seem to be people out there who will take advantage if they can.

 

[BTWales]

Sit back and take a good look at the problem and determine how big or small it is. Sometimes during the event the problem seems bigger.

If it's not that many clients in the year that have payment issues then i wouldn't start charging up front cause it's working ok for the majority. If it's an unacceptable amount of people then yea i would suggest trying out new systems of payment and see how they go.

Having said that maybe taking final payment on the last day of treatment is a wise thing to do regardless though!

We always take payment at the time and 99.9% of the time we dont have a problem. Usually its cash.

Looking into getting a card machine now - its cheaper than I thought. This would avoid the 'I've only got x amount of cash on me problem'.

Also, with things like aethetic treatment, there seems be more of a willingness to pay for this on credit card. After all, it is a luxury not a necessity!

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

If you aren't already a member of the FSB you should consider joining - we got Streamline sorted through them without having to pay a fee for any of it, free for first three months and the rate we no pay is competitive; it was done really quickly too.
You also get free legal helpline, reduced insurance rates and loads of oher benefits which - I think anyway - more than makes up for the annual fee we pay to the FSB for membership.

 

[BTWales]

Current status is we've now sent her a letter advising her that if she pays in full and is polite (we had a few nasty texts) then we will consider assisting her with any problems she perceives. I think thats fair enough.

Unsurprisingly, no reply yet. This makes me think she always intended never to pay the balance and just tried it on with the first payment too.

We do have a complaints procedure which the insurance company ask us to do. Basically, its put it in writing. However, my opinion is if she hasnt paid for the service then shes got no right to complain.