rioters in london make me sick

[A&S G.R.P Repairs]

they have been brought up with zero respect for police or anyone so maybe is time to bring in the army.

 

[kate1]

Discipline in schools. Need to get to the route of the problem at source. Lady on BBC news talking about enforcing curfews, could never see that working, its a reactive response rather than a proactive one.

 

[Parthelan]

Cant for the life of me work out why the army hasnt already been brought out - other than the international headlines it would make and the implications for the economy and things like the olympics, not to mention the coalition itself.

Funny how the army have been used to police riots in the north of Ireland, with sometimes the deadly use of rubber bullets, and most in the mainland never batted an eyelid. Yet somehow, there is a complee reluctance to use the same tactics on the mainland.

The first sign of the first petrol bomb being launched at the police, the army should have been out in force, and been authorised to use deadly force as and when.

We'll see how brave these thugs are then.

A 20 year old mindless thug and vandal who's only real weapon is an inflated sense of self importance, entitlement, and utter lack of respect for others, versus a highly trained, highly armed, self controlled, fearless 20 year old marine. Bring it on.

 

[garytulley]

I might go join the army just so I can get on of these rubber bullet guns and go whoop some hiney with it.

They want to riot, I'll give them something to riot about. :| Do you think I can make people dance by firing rubber bullets at their feet.

 

[SiteSubs]

This statement isn't meant to inflame, but I find the rioting quite stimulating from an anthropological standpoint.

Not just the way that rioters interact, but also the interaction with police and its wider issues with protesting over social conditions.

I feel a pity of poor David Cameron, who had to cut his Italian holiday short, and the poor Metropolitan commissioner who was on holidays as well. I can really see them being of direct front line assistance against the hordes. Well actually I don't but its a failed attempt at sarcasm.

Possibly the reason the army isn't called in, is due to the military being downgraded and having real war zones to occupy them.

Our government hacks and their cohorts bellow about the protests in the Arab world, and every now and again express their disgust about how some of their protestors are dealt with.

However, the social orders in Tunisia, Algeria,Syria etc allowed more freedom of expression than we allow in the UK. The difference is that penalties in those countries are exponentially more severe. That said, the ignition spark was a fatal shooting by HM police, which was reported in a low-key manner.

So fingers crossed, the contagion of rioting will continue to other parts of the country, and force Westminster to return the freedoms we previously enjoyed.

 

[johndon68]

So fingers crossed, the contagion of rioting will continue to other parts of the country, and force Westminster to return the freedoms we previously enjoyed.

As long as they don't come and burn your business down I assume

John

 

[LicensedToTrade]

One more thread about the same bloody topic and we might as well rename this to ukriotforums.co.uk

 

[I Love Spreadsheets]

I would have really liked to have seen Cameron announce that he was putting the army on the streets tonight or even just putting on them stand by rather than just announcing a debate on Thursday. I know, lets have two more nights of this before we even start to talk about it.

I dont even know what the debate will do. Will it make it easier to put troops on the streets? Will it give the police more powers? Will it give the police more staff? No, its a talk shop and the place for talk shops is after the event.

Calling martial law in the states happens at least once or twice a year and it doesnt do their image/economy any harm - it shows action and leadership, shame there is none of that here

 

[Team Leith Training]

As i feared and expected, it occurred in East Ham and Barking, those are the areas i am from and where i have family.
I also viewed footage of a riot in Woolwich and saw how powerless the police were. I agree with Lord Alan, its not a question of bravour our police have the courage to do what they need.
They need to perfom their task's without fear of recrimination. Give them that and i believe they will do their job.

Its nice to see 16k police in London, but what about the rest of the country.
Listening to the news its like London is the issue, not the rest of the UK?

 

a mate of mine who lives in croydon had this too say

I hear a lot of people saying "send in the army". Surely, if we become a country that sends its troops to shoot their own citizens, then we no longer have the right to be called 'civilised'?

The day that Britain is a state that oppresses its own population by military force, is the day that we might as well let the looters burn the whole f****** lot down. Because that is when Britain will not be worth fighting for any more.

 

[garytulley]

a mate of mine who lives in croydon had this too say

I hear a lot of people saying "send in the army". Surely, if we become a country that sends its troops to shoot their own citizens, then we no longer have the right to be called 'civilised'?

The day that Britain is a state that oppresses its own population by military force, is the day that we might as well let the looters burn the whole f****** lot down. Because that is when Britain will not be worth fighting for any more.

I don't think it has to resort to shooting people, maybe using rubber bullets to put the really aggresive ones down yes but killing is not needed. The police don't seem to be able to handle this on their own so bringing in the army would be a wise thing to do, even if it is just to back up the police and bring order back to our country.

 

[BelleandSebastion]

I totally agree Chris and couldn't have put it better myself. People need to look at the bigger picture.

 

[Parthelan]

The day that Britain is a state that oppresses its own population by military force, is the day that we might as well let the looters burn the whole f****** lot down. Because that is when Britain will not be worth fighting for any more.

So, using a national disciplined trained armed force to take back control of the streets from ferral thugs roaming like packs of rats or wild dogs, burning down peoples businesses and threatening life, is an act of oppression. :|

It's precicely because these vermin have no fear of, or respect for, the police, parents, family, society, community or any other authority, that we're witnessing the scenes that we are.

And I think I might throw up if I hear one more juvenile toerag talking about how they get no ''respek''.

 

[Gord]

So fingers crossed, the contagion of rioting will continue to other parts of the country, and force Westminster to return the freedoms we previously enjoyed.

I'll be glad when your school reopens & you have some homework to do.

 

[Team Leith Training]

a mate of mine who lives in croydon had this too say

I hear a lot of people saying "send in the army". Surely, if we become a country that sends its troops to shoot their own citizens, then we no longer have the right to be called 'civilised'?

The day that Britain is a state that oppresses its own population by military force, is the day that we might as well let the looters burn the whole f****** lot down. Because that is when Britain will not be worth fighting for any more.

I certainly see what your saying. But the main thing is we need to supress and pacify the issues and provokation.
We need to do this rationally, sensibly. After all you cannot fight fire with petrol can you? Makes it worse.
We need to enable those whose job it is to do their jobs. Protect firefighters from harm while they fight blazes. Empower those we trust to do the job they need to do to protect the communities they are paid to protect.
The issues of PC are whats holding them back. I see only a presence from the police, not action. Why? Becuase those are the contraints they have been given.

incidentally i understand the average life span of a copper in london is 5 years, before they leave. The beurocracy and the shift patterns just dont make it worthwhile.

Things need to change.

 

[Parthelan]

Just heard the ''voice'' of two teenage girls talking to a bbc producer. They were drinking wine they'd looted at 9.30 this morning, and said theyd been drinking all night. They described the riots as great fun. When asked why they did what they did, they said it was the governments fault, those conservatives, or ''whoever it is'' - when asked why they were destroying their own community, they said it was because the shop owners were rich, and we're showing the police and them that we'll do whatever we like, whenever we like.

I was listening intently to see if I could pick out their legitimate grievences. I couldnt. Perhaps when theyre sobered up they'll have a valid legitimate point we all need to listen to

 

[Team Leith Training]

I think we need to bring back national service, take these louts off the street.
After all a lot of the issues are youth related crime.

Who of those girls, have they been punished?

 

[AdamBeils]

all of this was inevitable

 

Just heard the ''voice'' of two teenage girls talking to a bbc producer. They were drinking wine they'd looted at 9.30 this morning, and said theyd been drinking all night. They described the riots as great fun. When asked why they did what they did, they said it was the governments fault, those conservatives, or ''whoever it is'' - when asked why they were destroying their own community, they said it was because the shop owners were rich, and we're showing the police and them that we'll do whatever we like, whenever we like.

I was listening intently to see if I could pick out their legitimate grievences. I couldnt. Perhaps when theyre sobered up they'll have a valid legitimate point we all need to listen to

just had that on 5 live not good

 

[Parthelan]

On the upside, places like Alton Towers can expect a run in business as and when the criminals are processed:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/criminals-taken-theme-park-trip-114959287.html

 

[Barnie]

so we see a weak response and other parts of the uk thought they might as well join in.

This is what happens when in there are no responsibilities for your actions.

the army is not needed to front line the operations, they could be used to simply help out ie free up riot police from arrests and holding etc but not for peace keeping.

I think after 3 days of this idiotic and spreading behavior its time to finish it, shortly and sharply, kind of shock and awe tactics.

Stun grenades should just be fired into the groups, have them cabled tied, remove the masks and hoods and process them on the streets, if they are juvenile call their parents to come and collect after issuing them with a fine or charging them with criminal damage and taking it further

TBH i dont actualy care what force is needed for this to stop (bar killing them but that would be no great loss), it just needs to be stopped very quickly before it spreads any further.

 

[stockdam]

People need to look towards Northern Ireland to see what happens when the army are brought in. Also being heavy handed doesn't work as it just escalates the seriousness of the violence. Those who are involved will blame everybody else for their actions and innocent people will get killed.

I don't really have an answer; there are a core that believe they are doing the right thing and that they need to change the way things are. They are inept to do this through the democratic system so they resort to dragging others into their game. It only takes one unfortunate incident and then it's a case of "we told you they would repress us".

For any parents.......keep your kids well away from this stuff as they get sucked into the "fun".

 

[directmarketingadvice]

I think we need to bring back national service, take these louts off the street.

... and give them weapons training.

Sounds like a plan.

Steve

 

[Parthelan]

... and give them weapons training.

Sounds like a plan.

Steve

Now Now ..... you know the point he was driving at .... maybe 3 to 5 years of a disciplined regime might instill a sense of pride in them, pride in themselves, and some self respect.

Bit like boxing clubs .... take a thug off the street and teach him or her how to channel and control their strength and aggression ... works a treat ... not for all, but for a lot.

Besides, they'd probably only get their hands on some old 303's - which would make their ''weapons training'' moot

 

[MASSEY]

"Bring back national service" i would do a runner to Brazil if they did that.

 

[Hedgie]

You can't compare Northern Ireland with this! Dealing with terrorism and youth rioters is not te same thing.

As for those girls, I think they should come on this forum an ask all of us 'rich' business owners for advice

 

[Hedgie]

"Bring back national service" i would do a runner to Brazil if they did that.

Get running mate

 

[Parthelan]

"Bring back national service" i would do a runner to Brazil if they did that.

Byyeeeeeeeee

 

[Hedgie]

At the very least the Army could protect the fire brigade and free up the police to deal with the rioters.

 

[trebor8]

Pssst, There's some brand new flat screen tv's going cheap on Gumtree

 

[LicensedToTrade]

You can't compare Northern Ireland with this! Dealing with terrorism and youth rioters is not te same thing.

I expect stockdam is drawing a comparison to the riots in Northern Ireland which at their height happened every july and august without fail across all largely populated areas of N.I. rather than the terrorist bombing campaign, so yes N.Ireland is a great comparison to make.

The police's main objective is to protect the people, the army's main objective is to engage our enemies, so if you use the army to police the people, then the people become the enemy and that rarely ends well.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Now Now ..... you know the point he was driving at .... maybe 3 to 5 years of a disciplined regime might instill a sense of pride in them, pride in themselves, and some self respect.

Or it might fill the army up with lazy, morally corrupt ********s that take so much babysitting that the army can't do its job.

IMO, it's a bad plan.

Steve

 

[MASSEY]

Byyeeeeeeeee

Ok i'll pick another country where the barstads can't get me If there are any left.

I would go to the vatican and pretend to be religious but it's full of paedos

 

[LicensedToTrade]

I would go to the vatican and pretend to be religious but it's full of paedos

What's your problem with paediatricians exactly? I think they do a good job.

 

[GeorgeStrait]

I would go to the vatican and pretend to be religious but it's full of paedos

Good choice Massey, they are not only the smallest country in the world but they also have no army so you stand no chance of conscription.

All depends if you can put up with a bit of hurmm - man sausage occasionally.

 

[Parthelan]

I would go to the vatican and pretend to be religious but it's full of paedos

Huh???

What do you need to pretend to be religious????

They dont

 

[Parthelan]

All depends if you can put up with a bit of hurmm - man sausage occasionally.

Dont let those pretty boy come to bed eyes fool you MASSEY. They really are highly trained close protection officers who could kill you with a piece of blue-tac and a cigarette paper

 

[stockdam]

I expect stockdam is drawing a comparison to the riots in Northern Ireland which at their height happened every july and august without fail across all largely populated areas of N.I. rather than the terrorist bombing campaign, so yes N.Ireland is a great comparison to make.

The police's main objective is to protect the people, the army's main objective is to engage our enemies, so if you use the army to police the people, then the people become the enemy and that rarely ends well.

Yes most of the riots were lead by a core and then the youths get involved "as there's nothing else to do round here". The youths don't really have any real political agenda other than they want to blame the state for all of their problems. I wasn't talking about terrorism as this is obviously not what's happening in England.

The army do have a lot of experience of handling riots (because of Northern Ireland) but the danger is that somebody then decides to use live bullets because the "other side" have bullets. Violence escalates very quickly if somebody is injured or mistreated by the police/army and then the rioters have the justification they need.

People who feel hard done by are easily lead by those who have an agenda to cause serious violence. Bringing the army onto the streets is risky but then again letting the mob rule the streets is also risky.

Water cannons seem to work quite well. Rubber bullets are to be avoided at all costs as this will lead to petrol bombs and even live bullets from the rioters.

 

[Parthelan]

Or it might fill the army up with lazy, morally corrupt ********s that take so much babysitting that the army can't do its job.

IMO, it's a bad plan.

Steve

Noooooooooooooooo - you misunderstand - they would never be let near a regular. Well, not until they proved their worth. The plan in this new world order would be to keep them on a remote scotish island doing theiir basic, only for 3 to 5 years. They get to serve the rest of their time off the island as and when theyve proved their worth.

 

[Rhyl Lightworks]

Apart from the ethical considerations of bringing the army in or not, the army is too busy trying to police the world to have any resources left for here at home.

Barrie