Is a list of towns at the bottom of your homepage spammy?

BobbyBoy · Feb 4, 2011

Hi Guys

Is placing a list of towns and cities at the bottom of your homepage considered 'spammy' in terms of SEO?

We do supply nationally, so in truth we do cover every town in the UK, however we are not based in any of those other towns.

How does Google treat this kind of thing in terms of SEO?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

Bobby

RadiusBPO · Feb 4, 2011

I do similar sometimes and it seems to work.

To make it look less spammy you could try an image showing all the uk and make the alt tags the areas?

Or depending on the competition you may be able to rank on anchor text links alone.

anthonylane13 · Feb 4, 2011

Regardless of whether the SEO effect is worth it, I'd be mindful of how a long list like this might appear to visitors. I always think they make any website much less credible than it would be without them. They're messy and don't contribute to the user experience at all.

WirralPrinters · Feb 4, 2011

Each location on my site is indexed correctly anyway, so I have no need to do this....

... but look at freeindex, they do sort of the same.

I do the same with my categories and soon locations (redesigning this part of my site) just for the extra bit of SEO.

As long as your site can support this, I see this as a benefit if anything.

If you simply have a few pages in your site and want to do this, it won't get anywhere anyway - too many directory sites already index counties of UK and anywhere else in the world for that matter.

I don't see any real harm though at the end of the day.

Just don't expect your site to jump up the ranks because of this addition.

Chunkford · Feb 4, 2011

Why don't you have the list on a separate page, with them linking to another page dedicated to that area?

Feb 5, 2011

anthonylane13 said:
Regardless of whether the SEO effect is worth it, I'd be mindful of how a long list like this might appear to visitors. .

No need for visitors to see the list if you place the list at the bottom of the page with a return to top of page button before the list is reached.

Perfectly acceptable from an SEO point of view but not to large best stick to major towns and cities or if looking for local traffic towns in your area.

Earl

BobbyBoy · Feb 5, 2011

Thanks for your suggestions and feedback guys.

Bobby

SE Oh · Feb 5, 2011

Yes its called Keyword Stuffing.

Feb 5, 2011

SE Oh said:
Yes its called Keyword Stuffing.

not at all only if you were using the same phrases over and over again.

anyhow no such thing as keyword stuffing really.

or if there is google et all take no notice of it.

Earl

Matt1959 · Feb 5, 2011

anthonylane13 said:
Regardless of whether the SEO effect is worth it, I'd be mindful of how a long list like this might appear to visitors. I always think they make any website much less credible than it would be without them. They're messy and don't contribute to the user experience at all.

isnt it the case that those that are not familiar with web stuff would not think twice about it and those that are would appreciate why it's done in the first place?

sanjiv · Feb 5, 2011

Could do it and hide it from users with CSS or use PHP to only display it to search engines. ??
I am no SEO expert though.

SE Oh · Feb 5, 2011

sanjiv said:
Could do it and hide it from users with CSS or use PHP to only display it to search engines. ??
I am no SEO expert though.

Yeah that's proper black hat though and is extremely frowned apon and it just takes person to report you to Google.

So is footer keyword stuffing, adding loads of places in the footer is KEYWORD stuffing if something is put there on purpose for nothing other than SEO purposes it is keyword stuffing. Best thing to do is add yourself to Google places and set the proper settings so you cover the entire UK.

Just Google "Google WebMaster Guidelines" and you will see accompanying evidence to what I am saying.

Also best think for you to do is use the keyword research tool, to see if adding all those places is even worth it anyway.

fisicx · Feb 6, 2011

It's not keyword stuffing. See sirearl's post.

Listing places you operate in is perfectly ok. Listing every town in the uk can look naff though. If people want a 'plumber in towcester' then they don't really want a nationwide company, they want a local man so the long footer list may be self-defeating.

bdw · Feb 6, 2011

I always think they make any website much less credible than it would be without them

I agree. Stick with the main towns. Actually I did this effectively for a local removals company who wanted to attract more business from the affluent areas. I just created a paragraph of text stating that they were well placed to handle business from <list of towns>. This did work quite well.

So is footer keyword stuffing, adding loads of places in the footer is KEYWORD stuffing if something is put there on purpose for nothing other than SEO purposes it is keyword stuffing.

I disagree and so does Google.

SEO on keywords is largely about placing them in the appropriate places on the page. That is all that is being proposed here (albeit I would limit the list to the major centres).

What Google says ...

Think about the words users would type to find your pages, and make sure that your site actually includes those words within it.

http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35769

.

SE Oh · Feb 6, 2011

bdw said:
I disagree and so does Google. SEO on keywords is largely about placing them in the appropriate places on the page. That is all that is being proposed here (albeit I would limit the list to the major centres).

What Google says ...
gle.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=35769

.

google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66358

I disagree with that and so does Google. It is all subject to opinion but I can say it is keyword stuffing even if you do get away with it.

cmcp · Feb 6, 2011

RadiusBPO said:
To make it look less spammy you could try an image showing all the uk and make the alt tags the areas?

If implemented correctly this could be a goer; you'd have to convey the same information in the image as the alt text. I'd be worried about giving this exmple to a beginner then seeing a domino effect of incorrect alt tag use through the rest of the site.

RadiusBPO said:
Or depending on the competition you may be able to rank on anchor text links alone.

I'd go with this approach. It's fine to have an areas covered section at the bottom of your page. I'd go with an unordered list of anchor links each pointing to a dedicated page on that area; be it what you can do in that area, or even better with examples of what you have done in that area.

unet · Feb 6, 2011

I guess this does work providing keyword density is okay and your have more than enough content. good practice to internally link to other pages on your site.

Birmingham · Feb 6, 2011

google take big notice of keyword stuffing when ur competitor reports it. try to make it useful content, not just lists of keywords. if ur smart about it u can make it all search engine friendly

Feb 6, 2011

Birmingham said:
google take big notice of keyword stuffing when ur competitor reports it.

do you think google acts on a single report ,i suspect it might take very many reports before any action may be taken.?

Can you imagine the amount of reports they would get every day if you could knock the competition out with a single report.

Earl

MASSEY · Feb 6, 2011

for lesser competitive areas it can get you on to page 1. You will still have to build links to be number 1. Im not sure the alt tag will be as strong as having the text on page. Also your serp snippet will be altered to a list of areas, its hard to get so many areas out of one page naturally.

Birmingham · Feb 6, 2011

sirearl said:
do you think google acts on a single report ,i suspect it might take very many reports before any action may be taken.?

indeed, a smart seo agency or large competitor would have several members of staff make a report. u can often get away with spammy black hat seo when it's smalltime stuff but i wouldn't endorse it as a long term strategy because when it gets big it doesn't last long

bdw · Feb 6, 2011

I disagree with that and so does Google. It is all subject to opinion but I can say it is keyword stuffing even if you do get away with it.

I don't think it is subject to opinion and I think most people who are in the business would agree that keyword stuffing is the practice of repeating the same keywords many times on the page. Having them there once is hardly stuffing. Google makes this quite clear ... "Think about the words users would type to find your pages, and make sure that your site actually includes those words within it. "

What they say about stuffing is that, "Typically, these will be lists or paragraphs of keywords, often randomly repeated."

Mentioning on your website that you cover London, Birmingham, Liverpool, Manchester, Edinburgh and Glasgow clearly comes into the first category. I know this to be true because I have used this technique successfully for several years on different websites.

It is actually more effective on a local basis. E.g. if you provide Volkswagen/Audi servicing in Stockport there would be no harm (and a lot of sense) in mentioning that you cover Manchester, Cheadle, Altrincham, Hyde, Stalybridge, Bolton, Knutsford, Wilmslow and Macclesfield. If you don't do this then anyone searching for Audi service Wilmslow is unlikely to find you and Google wants them to find you because your website would be a valid search result.

Here's what Matt Cutts says about it ...
http://www.mattcutts.com/blog/avoid-keyword-stuffing/

MASSEY · Feb 6, 2011

bdw maybe take a look at your site. Thats keyword stuffing. Listing areas you cover is not stuffing

Birmingham · Feb 6, 2011

MASSEY said:
bdw maybe take a look at your site. Thats keyword stuffing. Listing areas you cover is not stuffing

his keywords fit very well within his design though, and it's all in well-written sentences. i'd say that's acceptable in terms of keyword stuffing. it might be blatant lying but not so much stuffing

bdw · Feb 6, 2011

bdw maybe take a look at your site. Thats keyword stuffing. Listing areas you cover is not stuffing

You are correct. listing area we cover is not stuffing - it's neither lying nor stuffing. We have built websites for satisfied clients all over the UK, in Spain, Hong Kong and the USA. Is there something wrong with telling people that?

But ... it's quite sad that we cannot stay on topic and that you feel the need to try to pick holes in websites that are not under discussion. I have informed you of Google's and Matt Cutts' view on this and of my experience. If you do not want to take it on board so be it but please try not reduce it to a personal slanging match. Have a good Sunday evening!

(Oh and thanks Birmingham)

MASSEY · Feb 6, 2011

bdw said:
You are correct. listing area we cover is not stuffing - it's neither lying nor stuffing. We have built websites for satisfied clients all over the UK, in Spain, Hong Kong and the USA. Is there something wrong with telling people that?

But ... it's quite sad that we cannot stay on topic and that you feel the need to try to pick holes in websites that are not under discussion. I have informed you of Google's and Matt Cutts' view on this and of my experience. If you do not want to take it on board so be it but please try not reduce it to a personal slanging match. Have a good Sunday evening!

(Oh and thanks Birmingham)

It wasnt meant to be rude.

i do recall seeing a part of your site that said 'ignore this its just for the search engines' now i think we can agre that is stuffing.

An Oasis · Feb 6, 2011

It's stuffing and a completely invalid user experience. But more to the point shame on you if you can't find a way to do this and make it interesting…it's not difficult.

bdw · Feb 6, 2011

It is not stuffing as I have clearly indicated. If you cannot comprehend this then I cannot help you but rather than just blindly slagging people off with "shame on you" remarks, (have you been drinking?) perhaps you can tell us where we are going wrong? We are all in this together and I am sure that many people would be delighted to hear your take on this?

MTI · Feb 6, 2011

One of my webistes (NO ADVERT INTENDED!) has my local villages listed within my town. These have been neatly listed on a seperate page called "areas we cover". This way its not irectly in the visitors face an is purely there because of the phonecalls i get asking if we o cover the area.
If it oes show in in serps then fair enough but i have targete the city an not individual villages and so others often outrank it.
for you info its http://tvinstallationleeds.co.uk

An Oasis · Feb 6, 2011

bdw said:
It is not stuffing as I have clearly indicated.

No you haven't. You put in zero effort and because in your eyes it worked your brain stopped there.

bdw said:
IIf you cannot comprehend this then I cannot help you

Did I ask for help? Nope!

bdw said:
(have you been drinking?)

Yup!

bdw said:
perhaps you can tell us where we are going wrong?

With an attitude like that dream on, still at least may be you have learnt one lesson today...although I doubt it.

realmaverick · Feb 7, 2011

Just be careful how long the list goes. I'd suggest linking counties at the bottom of your page or perhaps in the main navigation. Then linking to the towns, from the county page.

Counties will be harder to rank for, than a town, so it makes sense to put more juice to those pages.

I manage a website for my best friend, he's an tradesman and similar to you, he covers a lot of towns. People looking for tradesman, search locally, so it's essential you target towns and counties. Any SEO that tells you it's spammy is wrong. Any SEO who creates a single page and tries to rank for every town with the one page, will get poor results.

bdw · Feb 7, 2011

I am not so sure that I agree with this. I have seen so many of these sites with a separate page for every town of consequence in the UK. Each page has more or less the same content apart from the references to a specific town and there can be dozens of these that add nothing to the website content.

I doubt that Google would encourage this and it is certainly producing content for the site visitor. Whether they do anything about it at present remains to be seen but I think they will eventually.

Chunkford · Feb 7, 2011

That's where you need to be creative.
Trying to rank a page for thousands of towns is crazy. The relvance will be so diluted the SE wont know what to rank it for. That's why I said earlier to have seperate pages that can be optimsed to that area, giving you an easier path to the top

bdw · Feb 7, 2011

When I think about it this used to be more common than it seems to be of late. I think the Google algorithm may have got wise to it because it really is quite spammy. We do know that Google tells us not to repeat largely similar content on different pages. They say "Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content."

However, in some cases, content is deliberately duplicated across domains in an attempt to manipulate search engine rankings or win more traffic. Deceptive practices like this can result in a poor user experience, when a visitor sees substantially the same content repeated within a set of search results.

realmaverick · Feb 7, 2011

You're wrong or mistaken. We're not talking spam here.

If his company, offers services in every town that he's listed and each town has proper content, then it makes perfect sense.

Do you see online stores, trying to sell everything via a single page?

People online, searching for tradesmen, search locally. He doesn't stand a chance of ranking number 1, if his page isn't focused on that search.

I know this for fact, from doing it multiple times and having every one of the websites ranking number 1 for every single one of the towns. And they've been there for over 5 years.

bdw · Feb 7, 2011

I am only posting what Google themselves say. It is up to you to decide that you want to ignore it. You may even get away with it.

Chunkford · Feb 7, 2011

bdw said:
I think the Google algorithm may have got wise to it because it really is quite spammy. We do know that Google tells us not to repeat largely similar content on different pages. They say "Don't create multiple pages, subdomains, or domains with substantially duplicate content."

bdw said:
I am only posting what Google themselves say. It is up to you to decide that you want to ignore it. You may even get away with it.

Yep, and this is being plain lazy, and you should be slapped on the back of the hand for it.
I did say be creative didn't I?

bdw · Feb 7, 2011

That's why I said earlier to have seperate pages that can be optimsed to that area, giving you an easier path to the top

Until Google weeds you out.

Chunkford · Feb 7, 2011

Weeds me out for what?

bdw · Feb 7, 2011

For being a slapper!

Is a list of towns at the bottom of your homepage spammy?

Chunkford

bdw

MASSEY

bdw

MASSEY

bdw

MASSEY

bdw

MTI

realmaverick

bdw

Chunkford

bdw

realmaverick

bdw

Chunkford

bdw

Chunkford

bdw

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