Few tips needed for setting up website

maria102 · Mar 26, 2009

Righto, they are close to finishing the build of my website, and I am just about to start entering all the products. As they all need to be entered individually onto a csv file and uploaded, I'm guessing there's no quick way to do this, just hard graft

Regarding product photography, it looks like we will need to do our own, does anyone have any top tips to do this as quickly as possible and get them to look semi-professional?

Also it appears that I need to learn html to do the newsletter - I learnt this about 8 years ago and it appears my memory is a bit rusty - any cheating way to do this?

Lastly, I need to input all the words for the SEO -there are bits at the bottom of each page for me to enter these. I thinking of obvious things like name of designer, item, colour, what else? its a bit too obvious to get me anywhere?..

Any help appreciated, it would be nice to be live on the interwebs very soon.

SLF · Mar 26, 2009

out of curiosity why do you need to learn html to do a newsletter? isnt there a wysiwyg editor with whatever software you are using?

UKSEOAgency · Mar 26, 2009

download a html editor for the newsletter, makes it so easy if you cant remember what your doing - i reccommend dreamweaver or one made by a company called xara if you want the simplest design to layout - cant remember the product name

As for SEO - do not overdo any tags! this is a big problem from around the net - it is much better to write about the product and then work out what the best tags would be from this!

maria102 · Mar 26, 2009

SLF said:
out of curiosity why do you need to learn html to do a newsletter? isnt there a wysiwyg editor with whatever software you are using?

There is but its as basic as they come, standard text, not able to place the pics to the right of the text, etc. If I was talking about one particular piece, the pic would be at the bottom or the top or whatever. The one on here has more options.

Kev Jaques · Mar 26, 2009

Maria - check out Mail Chimp - http://www.mailchimp.com/ -looks better than iContact and a few others

maria102 · Mar 26, 2009

UKSEOAgency said:
download a html editor for the newsletter, makes it so easy if you cant remember what your doing - i reccommend dreamweaver or one made by a company called xara if you want the simplest design to layout - cant remember the product name

Any of these free ones? :redface: Don't expect the Dreamweaver is.

UKSEOAgency said:
As for SEO - do not overdo any tags! this is a big problem from around the net - it is much better to write about the product and then work out what the best tags would be from this!

Could you give me a liddle "for example?"

SLF · Mar 26, 2009

get them to install a better one then. Plenty free ones that are good.

maria102 · Mar 26, 2009

Kev Jaques said:
Maria - check out Mail Chimp - http://www.mailchimp.com/ -looks better than iContact and a few others

Thats what I currently use, and I asked them to integrate into the site, but they haven't.

maria102 · Mar 26, 2009

SLF said:
get them to install a better one then. Plenty free ones that are good.

Oh, we're a bit too far down the line for that, they said they were keeping it simple so it didn't get trapped by spam filters.... also relations are a bit tetchy. There are three people involved with the site, designer, developer and the person that got the job from me. After all sorts of cross wires from each participant, my requirements have got a bit lost and the work seems to be have done slightly out of sync, eg, after I approved the initial design they went to build, but I didn't realise this meant I couldn't add or make changes really (move buttons etc). My categories for example I wasn't asked for so they put two in and designed headers for them, its then seen as pain that after I have been taught how to use the site and understand it better, I work out I have five categories and no headers designed for them. ..it just goes on, so I need to try and just get it finished.

fisicx · Mar 26, 2009

maria102 said:
Thats what I currently use, and I asked them to integrate into the site, but they haven't.

What a surprise!

As to the SEO thing - if the bits you need to enter are for the meta data then this is not really necessary. The meta description may be used for the snippet so just a quick description and your contact details is enough.

The keywords aren't even indexed by google so you can forget them.

So the only thing you really need to work on is the page title.

maria102 · Mar 26, 2009

fisicx said:
What a surprise!

As to the SEO thing - if the bits you need to enter are for the meta data then this is not really necessary. The meta description may be used for the snippet so just a quick description and your contact details is enough.

The keywords aren't even indexed by google so you can forget them.

So the only thing you really need to work on is the page title.

I'm just so fecking tired! Mailchimp has a page on integrating it into the website, so maybe I'll see how to do that when I get the files.

Re; page titles, if I had a "Pure Silk" "Tofu" "Blue" "Top" - is that how I would name the page?

fisicx · Mar 26, 2009

maria102 said:
Re; page titles, if I had a "Pure Silk" "Tofu" "Blue" "Top" - is that how I would name the page?

Pure silk, blue, tofu top with buttons/collar/tassels for £1.50 and free delivery

SLF · Mar 26, 2009

it shouldn't really be any hassle for them to replace the editor with another one, I would insist and tell them the current one is of no use to you. You are the customer after all. Get what you need not what they want to give you. I just checked out the name of mine and it's called TinyMCE. It's got allsorts of functions on the toolbar and its listed as 'free opensource' so you dont have to pay for it.

maria102 · Mar 26, 2009

SLF said:
it shouldn't really be any hassle for them to replace the editor with another one, I would insist and tell them the current one is of no use to you. You are the customer after all. Get what you need not what they want to give you. I just checked out the name of mine and it's called TinyMCE. It's got allsorts of functions on the toolbar and its listed as 'free opensource' so you dont have to pay for it.

Anything I say at the moment they say I should have sorted it out at the design stage - problem is, I didn't know the newsletter facility would be rubbish until they started my training, which was AFTER the design stage - see what I mean? I've got myself in a right pickle.

SLF · Mar 26, 2009

yes I do see what you mean, which is a shame about them really. Its not on. Design stage is rubbish. thats a poor excuse and they think cos you dont know about web design that you will have to buy it. It can be replaced at not much difficulty.

Makes me angry when these companies bid to win your work, claim they are the best, greatr customer support, blah blah, testimonials from Pat in Hampshire who says 'XXX have helped me above and beyond' you know the kind, and then once they win the job and you need support as your not the techie and they are

they dont give you what is best for you. they surely know they are slicing the meat off and giving you the bone to suck on.

well maybe thats a tad OTT for not havig a decent editor, but if they knew it was for a newsletter and know the average person is not html fluent, why on erth give you one you cant do much with? :|

peterstagg · Mar 26, 2009

Hi Maria
I know this might be a stupid question, but is your site a complete customised build?

maria102 · Mar 26, 2009

peterstagg said:
Hi Maria
I know this might be a stupid question, but is your site a complete customised build?

Yes, apparently - its organically built if that means anything. The reason I think I've got myself into this, is that they are 'allegedly' charging me half of what they usually do as its being built by a junior developer. Its confusing as to what I actually get for my money. Fiscix spoke to them for me and they said I had changed the site eight times? not really true, they gave me two concepts, I went with one which there were a few changes to colours etc, then they said they had another designer so I could see his concept, that was better than the other two so that is what I went with. They keep insinuating I keep changing my mind, but I haven't? I think its a case of cross wires and I really like the design they are doing, but its all the other stuff I can't get my head round. As they are not hosting the site (not part of their price) they wanted me to pay the balance before I had tested it, but I didn't, so now its hosted on their server. A checklist of things they needed from me would have worked better so I could see what I was agreeing to and what was needed.

fisicx · Mar 26, 2009

The problem appeared to be that they considered the page layout to be the design. After it was pointed out that their layout needed a bit of tweaking they got all stroppy and indicated that the 'design' had been agreed and they couldn't make any changes.

They were asked to move a navbar from the top of the page to below the banner. Apparently this was not possible because.... the design had been agreed. I suggested that is was simple a matter of moving a div (5 minutes work for the programmer) but they kept saying the design ahd been agreed.

It now turns out that if Maria wants any changes (after testing) she will have to pay extra for them!

peterstagg · Mar 26, 2009

ahh the organically built website. Sometimes these are great, the question sometimes is; great to whom? The owner for the flexibility or the designer who can hear the cash bells gooff everytime there is a change.
To start off would not a prebuilt boxed version have worked?
I have mentioned in several threads that I use x-cart. The customisation is in the front end, and does not need work to the back end unless you wanted to add some really unusual stuff.

It has an email system, but I prefer to use a HTML editor outside the unit and then copy the code in.

One of the things I have wanted to see in it is a better newsletter system, but I think the work needed to do that might be more than your project has already seen.

maria102 · Mar 26, 2009

peterstagg said:
To start off would not a prebuilt boxed version have worked?

Hindsight etc? I haven't got a clue I am so lost in it all and tired.

peterstagg · Mar 26, 2009

Thanks fisicx

So it is an organic money tree cart for the developers then?

I was quoted some prices for a developer to do my shopping cart. One was realistic in the states with up to $1500 fully loaded, another wanted £4000and (what is x-cart anyway)

I ended up doing it myself as the front end was quite easy to do.

peterstagg · Mar 26, 2009

Hindsight etc? I haven't got a clue I am so lost in it all and tired.

yeah
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. You main question is what to do now.

Consider taking it off them after they have done their bit and look for another better design team to finish it off?

richardjeaton · Mar 26, 2009

maria102 said:
Yes, apparently - its organically built if that means anything. The reason I think I've got myself into this, is that they are 'allegedly' charging me half of what they usually do as its being built by a junior developer. Its confusing as to what I actually get for my money. Fiscix spoke to them for me and they said I had changed the site eight times? not really true, they gave me two concepts, I went with one which there were a few changes to colours etc, then they said they had another designer so I could see his concept, that was better than the other two so that is what I went with. They keep insinuating I keep changing my mind, but I haven't? I think its a case of cross wires and I really like the design they are doing, but its all the other stuff I can't get my head round. As they are not hosting the site (not part of their price) they wanted me to pay the balance before I had tested it, but I didn't, so now its hosted on their server. A checklist of things they needed from me would have worked better so I could see what I was agreeing to and what was needed.

Hi

This sounds like a nightmare and a situation that seems to be becoming more and more common

So far this year I have already "rescued" 3 clients who have been left high and dry by so called professionals. The web design industry is in danger of being viewed with the same contempt as estate agents

I obviously don't know the in's and out's of the deal but it does sound like the development company could have done alot more than they have. One of the first things they should have done is write up a full proposal (maybe not a full spec as things do change especially regarding the design aspects) detailing exactly what you would and wouldn't get for the fee.

Ref the email campaigns - if they had said it could have HTML email's then this should have been tied down further. Does this mean a plain text field where you paste HTML? A fully blown WYSIWYG editor? What does this integrate with? etc etc???

If you want any advice or any "geek speak" translating into Englsh then feel free to drop me a message and I'd be happy to help.

Richard

awebapart.com · Mar 26, 2009

maria102 said:
Anything I say at the moment they say I should have sorted it out at the design stage - problem is, I didn't know the newsletter facility would be rubbish until they started my training, which was AFTER the design stage - see what I mean? I've got myself in a right pickle.

Bespoke custom web design and development, expecially bespoke custom ecommerce web design and development, can be risky and expensive. You are not alone, this happens to many custom development projects, many of which get mentioned on this forum (here is another recent one).

At the risk of repeating myself, if you really need a bespoke custom made website developed, you need to get a client supplier contract in place to protect both parties for when the usual things go wrong.

One problem is that descriptions found in design briefs, specs etc are so open to different interpretations and even something simple can open up a can of worms of complexity. "Newsletter facility" is a good example. Does it mean simple text based system, text and pictures, what design flexibility is there if text and pictures are used, does the system resize the pictures or do they have to be resized before entering into the system, is the newsletter just for web, or for web and print, or for web and print and email. If it is for email too, what type of email (text, HTML email, email with embedded attached images, email with link embedded images) what email readers are supported (outlook, hotmail, yahoo, gmail, thunderbird, blackberry, Lotus notes, what versions) - if it is for email then you cannot use any WYSIWYG HTML editor as you have to limit yourself to a very small subset of HTML which works on various readers.

maria102 said:
... relations are a bit tetchy. There are three people involved with the site, designer, developer and the person that got the job from me. After all sorts of cross wires from each participant

maria102 said:
Its confusing as to what I actually get for my money.

Custom development projects are risky for both sides, especially the supplier if it is a fixed price contract. I'd imagine that with 3 people involved on the supplier side, they are working for their money, after all these people have to be paid.

IMO fixed price custom development projects are so risky for the supplier, that I certainly do not offer them as a service to new customers from my company.

maria102 · Mar 26, 2009

awebapart.com said:
At the risk of repeating myself, if you really need a bespoke custom made website developed, you need to get a client supplier contract in place to protect both parties for when the usual things go wrong.

I've just read the spec and it doesn't nearly go into enough detail, though having never built a website before I wouldn't necessarily know what we needed, which is where I think a lot of the problems stem from.

awebapart.com said:
Custom development projects are risky for both sides, especially the supplier if it is a fixed price contract. I'd imagine that with 3 people involved on the supplier side, they are working for their money, after all these people have to be paid.

There is no doubt that they have worked for their money and I fully appreciate that, especially the designer who has worked really hard. The issue is the project has not been scoped properly, we should have known what was in and out of scope, things would have been done more quickly and I wouldn't feel like f*cking bursting into tears about it all..

peterstagg · Mar 26, 2009

let's hope that once this is over it will actually do what they say it will!

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Few tips needed for setting up website

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SLF

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