Why would a cafe not accept card payments?

[LeasingEval]

I was in a cafe the other day and after ordering I couldn't see a card terminal at the till, so I asked if they accepted cards and they said no. The server quite happily cancelled the order and seemed well versed in the procedure to cancel the transaction on the till, so I guess it's not an uncommon thing to happen in there.

So I went a few streets down and bought my lunch from a fast-food chain.

Why on earth would a cafe not accept card payments these days?

I appreciate that there are processing fees, but surely they are negligible in comparison to the lost profits from the folk who have to walk out?

Do banks refuse to allow some businesses to operate card machines? Are they in some way 'dodgy'?
(The business I mean, not the bank because we already know how dodgy they are).

 

[Paul Rough]

It might be the charges they occur for the payments, there is a paper shop at the end of my street that does the same thing, I stopped going in there because they won't take card payments, every time I was in I saw people leaving because they didn't have cash, I wonder if they are losing more money from lost sales than they would for card payment charges.

 

[LeasingEval]

It might be the charges they occur for the payments, there is a paper shop at the end of my street that does the same thing, I stopped going in there because they won't take card payments, every time I was in I saw people leaving because they didn't have cash, I wonder if they are losing more money from lost sales than they would for card payment charges.

Undoubtedly.

 

[ExoPaul]

There is no reason at all. Paypal, Stripe, etc all offer machines for taking card payments if you do not want to go through a proper merchant bank. And as long as the cafe has WiFi they can take payments with it.
The payment charges are not even high. Usually 20p + 1.6% of the charge, which goes down with volume.
I have been to craft fairs and car boot sales where the sellers all use card reading machines from these payment processors. And more and more online-only banks are offering them for you to do business banking.

I would suspect that the cafe asked their high street bank, or googled online for a card payment machine and saw the expensive varieties and panicked. Either that, or they are not wanting a paper trail of banking payments and would rather take cash and fiddle their taxes by declaring far lower than they actually earn.

 

[LeasingEval]

I would suspect that the cafe asked their high street bank, or googled online for a card payment machine and saw the expensive varieties and panicked. Either that, or they are not wanting a paper trail of banking payments and would rather take cash and fiddle their taxes by declaring far lower than they actually earn.

I don't think it's the former because I can think of 2 successful cafes like this and the level of accumen required to get a a cafe running so successfully is significantly higher than that required to source a cheap card payment machine. So it can't be that.

Which only leaves the latter I guess...

 

[billybob99]

Because they are operating in the stone age.

 

[LeasingEval]

Because they are operating in the stone age.

It's not that either - the one I was in yesterday was very busy - situated next to a hospital with very high footfall.

The other one is much more rural but has apparently won "best cafe in the region" type awards multiple years running.

 

[Mr D]

Sometimes its simply they don't want to deal with card payments.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Sometimes its simply they don't want to deal with card payments.

Indeed, there are such businesses running quite successfully. I even know of some who don't even open every day of the week either.

 

[LeasingEval]

Sometimes its simply they don't want to deal with card payments.

But they do want to deal with handling cash, staff pilfering the till, forged notes, giving customers the wrong change, spend time cashing out the till and going to the bank to cash it?
So it can't be that either...

 

[Mr D]

But they do want to deal with handling cash, risk staff pilfering the till, risk of forged notes, giving customers the wrong change, spend time cashing out the till and going to the bank to cash it?
So it can't be that either...

Yes. Some people prefer what they know.

Presumably they feel the business manages with the way things are. Not everyone wants to change they way they work.

One of my previous employers the chair of the organisation did the payroll using the printed books. No computer, handwritten notes, errors in tax paid etc. Been a wages clerk for 50 years and wasn't about to do things differently.

My local chippie only started taking card payments a couple of months back - one of the locals suggested he's the first chippie owner on that site to do so.

 

[Ian J]

But they do want to deal with handling cash, staff pilfering the till, forged notes, giving customers the wrong change, spend time cashing out the till and going to the bank to cash it?
So it can't be that either...

If all transactions are cash then the business owner can prepare his books exactly as he wants

 

[Prime81]

Our favourite fish and chip shop only takes cash. It's run by an old bloke but is always busy. Nearest cash point is a car drive away but it a very popular shop.

 

[LeasingEval]

Yes. Some people prefer what they know.

Presumably they feel the business manages with the way things are. Not everyone wants to change they way they work.

One of my previous employers the chair of the organisation did the payroll using the printed books. No computer, handwritten notes, errors in tax paid etc. Been a wages clerk for 50 years and wasn't about to do things differently.

I might buy into this as an explanation if it was a traditional style cafe with everything hand made and no wi-fi etc. But neither of them are, so it's not that the owners are particulatly stuck in their ways or even particularly old either for that matter.

 

[LeasingEval]

If all transactions are cash then the business owner can prepare his books exactly as he wants

It is the only reasonable explanation that I can see.

 

[fisicx]

Our wheelie bin cleaner only takes cheques and the window cleaner only takes cash.

 

[LeasingEval]

Our wheelie bin cleaner only takes cheques and the window cleaner only takes cash.

Exactly. Neither of those are face to face convenience based transactions - if you don't happen to have cash in your pocket at the time, then the window cleaner will still do your windows and come back later. But you cant do that when buying from.a cafe, shop, supermarket, fuel station etc.

 

[paulears]

I hate cash! You can't get rid of it easily, and carrying large amounts of cash scares me silly. The banks charge for paying it in and it's so time-consuming to reconcile and prepare for banking. Cheques are horrible too, but from the delay really. I've just got back from Dubai - and tried to pay the surplus cash I had back into Santander and they don't bank 'foreign money' and sent me to Tesco, who only buy back for cash, so I had to then go back to the bank. Why would anyone NOT want to take plastic!!

 

[Philip Hoyle]

There's also the matter of fraud & disputed card transactions. Some business owners have been caught out themselves or heard of others being caught and don't want to run the risk. Yes, I know there's supposed to be protection against fraud etc., but some of the card processors are notoriously difficult when it comes to claiming.

 

[Newchodge]

There is a very nice Italian and a very nice Indian restaurant in our village. My average spend in each is over £60. Neither takes cards.

 

[Newchodge]

Actually, the indian doesn't serve alcohol either, but they are happy to provide glasses and corkscrews at no charge

 

[Mr D]

I might buy into this as an explanation if it was a traditional style cafe with everything hand made and no wi-fi etc. But neither of them are, so it's not that the owners are particulatly stuck in their ways or even particularly old either for that matter.

Never suggested they were anti tech.

Perhaps bad experience with a card machine company in the past. Perhaps too many card problems in their experience.
We usually cannot know.

 

[Onthebrightside]

Some new businesses are only given the option of very high credit card transaction rates. After they have been running a little while they are offered better rates. Some start without a card payment device and then, as they are running along nicely without one, never bother. There is a hairdressers in town that have never taken card payments (all the others do) but they are within easy access of a card machine. They are always busy and do just fine without card payments.

 

[billmccallum1957]

For some of us in retail (we run second hand shops) the very low cost of the products that our customers want means we have to make our costs as low as possible. A £1 T shirt would increase to £1.25 if we used a card machine.

Fortunately for us there is a Tesco across the road with a cashpoint, our customers go there whilst we bag up their shopping.

We do lose a couple of customers every month because we don't have a machine, but our regulars know and generally happy to pay in cash.

We turn over around £150K and have been consistent over 5 years, so don't see any major objections from our core customers.

 

[busowner987]

The takeaways like cash to spend in the casinos

 

[Mr D]

The takeaways like cash to spend in the casinos

Yes I heard some of the casinos were starting to cater to businesses looking to win big. Widening the doors, reinforcing the floor, providing non-human beverages.
Start with marketing to the takeaways, eventually get the taxis and the charity shops through the doors...

 

[LeasingEval]

There's also the matter of fraud & disputed card transactions. Some business owners have been caught out themselves or heard of others being caught and don't want to run the risk. Yes, I know there's supposed to be protection against fraud etc., but some of the card processors are notoriously difficult when it comes to claiming.

Ah yes, this is starting to sound like a reason why.

I had heard that with the introduction of contactless payments, the responsibility was on the merchant to check that the person using the contactless card was the true owner of the card and the bill for fraudulent contactless transactions would go to the merchant. Not sure how true this is though?

 

[SteveHa]

I've actually seen a street beggar with a card machine to accept plastic "donations"

 

[Mr D]

By what the OP says the café isn't suffering.

 

[Bainzee]

from my experience, its mainly a combination of pure ignorance and not wanting to declare full turnover. you can pick up a machine as low as £10 per month and pay as little as 0.3% on a debit card transaction, with the added benefit of not going to the bank. the bank will charge anything between 40p - 80p per £100 deposited and its less hassle so its much more convenient to accept card, considering their footfall next to the hospital. very naive business owners i would have to say

 

[Mr D]

from my experience, its mainly a combination of pure ignorance and not wanting to declare full turnover. you can pick up a machine as low as £10 per month and pay as little as 0.3% on a debit card transaction, with the added benefit of not going to the bank. the bank will charge anything between 40p - 80p per £100 deposited and its less hassle so its much more convenient to accept card, considering their footfall next to the hospital. very naive business owners i would have to say

But apparently the way they work suits them.

No reason for them to bank cash. Plenty of places will take cash. Lots of other businesses will accept it.

 

[tony84]

Chargebacks, waiting days for your money, the cost of the transaction - loads of reasons.

 

[Onthebrightside]

When I owned a shop people would go out of their way to pay by cash, advising that they were sick of lining the pockets of the banks with money for small businesses. There are lots of shops around here that don't take cards including a fast food shops, hairdressers, craft shops, cafes etc.

 

[Mr D]

Times I have been on the markets there were many stallholders dealing in cash only.
Even at a few bigger events some traders were cash only.

Businesses take cash in. They may not bank all of it, keep costs down. Buy stock, pay bills, even pay landlord. Cash.
Have done it myself - paying the company credit card by using payment form and a wodge of cash. Cheaper than banking cash then using online banking to pay card.

People adapt. Those wanting to use a cash only place will carry cash. Those wanting to only use cash will find ways to use it.

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

I don’t think the reasons are necessarily as stupid or dishonest as some replies here. Our pie/sandwich shop takes cards and one of the biggest issues is the 3-4 day delay in receiving the payments, particularly when we first started (albeit for established businesses you would hope it would have less of an impact). We can at any one time be in excess of £500 “behind” with receiving our card transactions in our bank. By the time the money comes through we have taken a further £500 on card over those three days so we essentially have £500 ish at any one time in a black hole that will never be realised. It’s not a great deal of money in the grand scheme of things but as a new business when things are tight that can be a significant chunk of money when we pay all of our suppliers cash on delivery and staff expect their wages at the end of the week.

Without a doubt though I think businesses need to be aware of it and considering it because there is undoubtedly a huge shift towards card payments and contactless being “the norm”. We will have people come in and buy a sandwich or pie for £2 or £2.50 and just want to tap their card and be gone. I have to say I’m as guilty as anyone, I bought some cigarette papers and a pack of filters the other day for £1.30 and had no cash on me...just tap contactless and go. It’s definitely how things are heading!

 

[Ian J]

We will have people come in and buy a sandwich or pie for £2 or £2.50 and just want to tap their card and be gone.

Those of the older generation amongst us may remember a Tony Hancock episode when he got his first cheque book and started writing cheques out for everything including the newspaper he bought from a street vendor

 

[Darren_Ssc]

from my experience, its mainly a combination of pure ignorance and not wanting to declare full turnover.

Your experience may be limited to ignorant and dodgy businesses though? Many businesses have a better idea who their customers are than an outsider does.

The last time I had a 'card machine' discussion with my barber one of his other customers laid into me, telling me how ignorant I was about the way the banks want to control us and all these so-called conveniences are just a way for them to make more money.

Apparently, he has a lot of customers who are pro-cash and anti-card.

 

[Deleted member 59730]

Money laundering. A takeaway in my local town has operated for 40 years and hardly ever has a customer.

 

[Mr D]

I don’t think the reasons are necessarily as stupid or dishonest as some replies here. Our pie/sandwich shop takes cards and one of the biggest issues is the 3-4 day delay in receiving the payments, particularly when we first started (albeit for established businesses you would hope it would have less of an impact). We can at any one time be in excess of £500 “behind” with receiving our card transactions in our bank. By the time the money comes through we have taken a further £500 on card over those three days so we essentially have £500 ish at any one time in a black hole that will never be realised. It’s not a great deal of money in the grand scheme of things but as a new business when things are tight that can be a significant chunk of money when we pay all of our suppliers cash on delivery and staff expect their wages at the end of the week.

Without a doubt though I think businesses need to be aware of it and considering it because there is undoubtedly a huge shift towards card payments and contactless being “the norm”. We will have people come in and buy a sandwich or pie for £2 or £2.50 and just want to tap their card and be gone. I have to say I’m as guilty as anyone, I bought some cigarette papers and a pack of filters the other day for £1.30 and had no cash on me...just tap contactless and go. It’s definitely how things are heading!

May be how things are heading. However people can still prefer cash.
Back in late 19th century the direction things were heading was not cash, we still have cash. Back then cheques were the new thing, the modern way to pay for things.
Now we are at the point of banking a cheque by not paying it physically in and cheques are out of fashion!
Touch a card machine with card instead...
I got a bank card for my reserve bank account a few months back, old card was about to expire. The new one is contactless - so far never used it that way. Just no purchases where its suitable and I'm using that account.
The two cafes I use, one is opposite a bank, other is 2 doors down from a bank each side. Both I use cash in.