Who Wants Boris Back?

[Paul Norman]

Yes they do. But there’s a whole bunch who have no intention of working. Or even worse, claim benefits and do cash work.

I suspect however that the cost of policing the fraud is greater than the amount being defrauded.

You are correct in your last sentence.

Plus the amount taken from people who are probably eligible but couldn't manage the process is a lot.

A contact of mine sits in the 'no intention of working' catagory. He had a stroke. He was strongly advised not to work. He lived at subsistence level for years.

 

[IanSuth]

Or women weren't encouraged by the government and social policy, all in the guise of "helping" them, that being in the workforce was better than being a full time mum and wife. (Duh, them lot working helps increase GDP, ain't it?)

And if the government didn't encourage easier divorces (as they recently did). And didn't make it easier for women to manage on their own as single parents. No, seriously! If it was more difficult, people would think more carefully about marriage, women would filter for partners on traditional criteria such as responsibility, fidelity, ability to fund a family and that kind of boring stuff instead of how many tattooes he has.

More people are claiming to be single parents, yes. The important question to ask is ...why?

The government should encourage the population that the best way to bring up a child is in a loving home with a mother and father (you can almost get hanged now for saying that!). Yes, there will be some cases where the father has died, but those are the exception. But if women were filtering partners on more traditional criteria, there are all kinds of other advantages - we'd probably see a lot less domestic violence, for example.

There's already the CSA to deal with upkeep from absent fathers - and from what I'm told, those crooks skim off a large chunk of the money collected!

Rubbish

My birth father left my mother in 1976 (ran away with baby sitter) he left his job at the GPO so his wages couldn't be garnished and became a self employed repair man - he did an agreement to pay back arrears of child support for my brother and me at the rate of 50p per week (not indexed linked) until the last of us became 18 or left full time education whichever came sooner

The CSA did nothing to chase

My mother then met my stepfather, she lived on his farm for the next 12 years running his books and as he also repaired cars did all the spares ordering etc plus looked after his 2 children from his first marriage and they had one between them.

When he threw her out in 1989 (after threatening her with a shotgun) she was in emergency accommodation with 3 children (i was at uni and step brother had left home), he refused to pay a penny and the CSA were unable to do anything to a farmer (who shared title with his brother) other than put a charge against the land so that she would receive something when they retired and the land sold - when he did sell a field they deducted the amount from the costs of creating the agreement/court costs and she received nothing with money still owed.

This country has NEVER had a situation where absent fathers actually are forced to support their children so do not pretend it has changed recently

 

[Bob Morgan]

Sleepy Joe Biden would like Boris back. He had difficulty dealing with the name of our new Prime Minister . . . "Ramee Sanook!" Best if they keep Joe away from the Nuke Button . . and the Fridge Magnets!

 

[Onthebrightside]

It seems that the majority of the people interviewed by the media are claiming to be single parents so how about reverting to the old days when the absent fathers contributed heavily to the upkeep of their own children instead of relying on the taxpayer to do it for him

I don't know if the TV companies are specifically targeting people but it is regrettable that a many of the people screaming food poverty are over 20 stone.

 

[Clinton]

Rubbish

My birth father left my mother in 1976 (ran away with baby sitter) he left his job at the GPO so his wages couldn't be garnished and became a self employed repair man - he did an agreement to pay back arrears of child support for my brother and me at the rate of 50p per week (not indexed linked) until the last of us became 18 or left full time education whichever came sooner

The CSA did nothing to chase

My mother then met my stepfather, she lived on his farm for the next 12 years running his books and as he also repaired cars did all the spares ordering etc plus looked after his 2 children from his first marriage and they had one between them.

When he threw her out in 1989 (after threatening her with a shotgun) she was in emergency accommodation with 3 children (i was at uni and step brother had left home), he refused to pay a penny and the CSA were unable to do anything to a farmer (who shared title with his brother) other than put a charge against the land so that she would receive something when they retired and the land sold - when he did sell a field they deducted the amount from the costs of creating the agreement/court costs and she received nothing with money still owed.

This country has NEVER had a situation where absent fathers actually are forced to support their children so do not pretend it has changed recently

Sorry to hear what happened to your mum, but what part of my post are you disagreeing with?

All of it? Or the part about CSA chasing fathers? Or the part about women being more careful with choosing partners if society was constructed with less of a government security blanket and more of an emphasis on people taking responsibility for their decisions and living with them?

 

[MBE2017]

I’d suggest 10% are claiming disability. Which doesn’t mean a good number of them can’t work, they just choose not to. Two relatives of mine are included in that number. They have got the claims down to a fine art and get all sorts of benefits.

There is the other side of the coin of course.

My daughter has Autism, and gets a couple of benefits, but only because she has parents who ensured she did. Money means little to her, she has constantly worked daily since leaving school, with only a handful of sick days over a decade.

None of her former”normal classmates” can hold a job down, and most lay in bed, being paid by the bank of mum and dad. A local social worker to the schools uses my daughter to show parent and the kids it is possible to lead a “normal” life.

Personally my doctor offered to sign myself for permanent sick approx fifteen years ago, and despite still working in some discomfort, and being told I was entitled to Pips I preferred not take it, but my wife insisted. I would be too bored sitting around all day, and I don’t consider being in pain a disability, just my choice.

For anyone considering truly disabled applicants, look hard. Most are desperate to just work and socialise, and will probably be amongst your most productive workers given a chance.

 

[IanSuth]

Sorry to hear what happened to your mum, but what part of my post are you disagreeing with?

All of it? Or the part about CSA chasing fathers? Or the part about women being more careful with choosing partners if society was constructed with less of a government security blanket and more of an emphasis on people taking responsibility for their decisions and living with them?

The part where you implied this is something new - I don't believe there was ever a time when society was constructed in a way women didnt get the short straw when it came to parental responsibility.

The csa dont chase most as they cant chase anyone other than Mr Average - removing support form the mothers / children won't change that. And unless you hadn't noticed a lot (if not most) 16-21 year olds of both sexes think far more with what is between their legs than "future prospects" when it comes to relationship decisions.

What you are advocating wouldnt really affect men at all but it would affect women so hardly progressive or useful in a country with an apparent shortage of labour

 

[Clinton]

What you are advocating wouldnt really affect men at all but it would affect women so hardly progressive or useful in a country with an apparent shortage of labour

Ah, "progressive"? That's where it all went wrong in the first place!

And unless you hadn't noticed a lot (if not most) 16-21 year olds of both sexes think far more with what is between their legs than "future prospects" when it comes to relationship decisions.

That's mainly in rich countries with generous benefits where it isn't drilled into their heads from birth (for both boys and girls) that they need to take responsiblity for their own actions. Not so in India where I grew up. Not so in Ukraine where I have a lot of friends (nor in other slavic countries).

People here often have zero idea of what it's like to grow up anywhere except in a cushy envinronment with a social security blanket unpinning everything they do.

When I was 16-21, my worries around women were about finding a good wife, not about having sex behind the bike shed or hoping to pick up a one night stand at the local pub. What you've "noticed" about 16-20 year olds' actions is not universal.

 

[IanSuth]

Ah, "progressive"? That's where it all went wrong in the first place!





That's mainly in rich countries with generous benefits where it isn't drilled into their heads from birth (for both boys and girls) that they need to take responsiblity for their own actions. Not so in India where I grew up. Not so in Ukraine where I have a lot of friends (nor in other slavic countries).

People here often have zero idea of what it's like to grow up anywhere except in a cushy envinronment with a social security blanket unpinning everything they do.

When I was 16-21, my worries around women were about finding a good wife, not about having sex behind the bike shed or hoping to pick up a one night stand at the local pub. What you've "noticed" about 16-20 year olds' actions is not universal.

I thought in a lot of those "non progressive" countries other members of the family did the match making and the future wives have very little say in things. I think that genie was out the bottle over 100 years ago in the UK and isn't going back in.

 

[Newchodge]

People here often have zero idea of what it's like to grow up anywhere except in a cushy envinronment with a social security blanket unpinning everything they do.

Very very few people have any experience of what it is like to grow up in an environment other than their own. I wouldf have thought that was obvious.

 

[DontAsk]

I don't know if the TV companies are specifically targeting people but it is regrettable that a many of the people screaming food poverty are over 20 stone.

Or, guy on TV the other day, sporting a nice Berghaus jacket that looked almost brand new.

 

[Kerwin]

I don't know if the TV companies are specifically targeting people but it is regrettable that a many of the people screaming food poverty are over 20 stone.

I take medication that makes me put on a hell of a lot of weight. Don't pass judgement if you don't know all the facts about people.

 

[simon field]

Most people in the uk are obese though.

 

[Kerwin]

Most people in the uk are obese though.

If by most you mean 28% you would be correct.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn03336/

 

[simon field]

Or, guy on TV the other day, sporting a nice Berghaus jacket that looked almost brand new.

Probably either shoplifted or got a lucky find at the charity shop, flippin’ scrotes wearing mountain kit in an urban setting like that.

 

[simon field]

If by most you mean 28% you would be correct.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/sn03336/

Yeah apologies. 64% are too heavy.

 

[japancool]

Too much beer, too many chips and kebabs.

 

[Clinton]

I thought in a lot of those "non progressive" countries other members of the family did the match making and the future wives have very little say in things. I think that genie was out the bottle over 100 years ago in the UK and isn't going back in.

Ah, bless. You have all the expertise on Indian culture from reading a book written 100 years ago

I found my own wife back in the last century, but the large majority of young people in India today WANT their family to pick their partner! Even the women. And the women get a veto if they don't like the guy.

Why do they want their families to pick their partners? Because of responsibility. Mum and dad picking your wife will find you someone suited to you, matching you in education / personality / intelligence / whatever. Whereas if responsibility, long-term future, ability to care / provide are not considerations, you pick the easiest girl or the one with the biggest knockers.

But arranged marriages is a red herring. The teenage pregnancy rate in love marriage Ukraine is 4%, in urban India it's 4%, in the UK it's 16% (despite free morning after pill and what not). Part of the reason is that you don't need to be able to support a child here, the government will provide.

Single parent households: 16% in UK according to some stats and 25% according to Gingerbread, some of the highest in the world. It's our social policies and support for single parents that contribute towards this problem (yes, it's a problem). The ideal environment for bringing children up is a two parent household with a mother and a father but there is no government policy that encourages or rewards this nor one that disincentivises single parenthood. Instead, we subsidise mothers dumping their babies in nurseries to go back to work (thereby putting pressure on the family and on the marriage). Our social policies corrode family life, take responsibility away from parents (your child's school won't tell you if you 13 y/o gets pregnant!) and push people to rely on the state.

 

[Newchodge]

Ah, bless. You have all the expertise on Indian culture from reading a book written 100 years ago

I found my own wife back in the last century, but the large majority of young people in India today WANT their family to pick their partner! Even the women. And the women get a veto if they don't like the guy.

Why do they want their families to pick their partners? Because of responsibility. Mum and dad picking your wife will find you someone suited to you, matching you in education / personality / intelligence / whatever. Whereas if responsibility, long-term future, ability to care / provide are not considerations, you pick the easiest girl or the one with the biggest knockers.

But arranged marriages is a red herring. The teenage pregnancy rate in love marriage Ukraine is 4%, in urban India it's 4%, in the UK it's 16% (despite free morning after pill and what not). Part of the reason is that you don't need to be able to support a child here, the government will provide.

Single parent households: 16% in UK according to some stats and 25% according to Gingerbread, some of the highest in the world. It's our social policies and support for single parents that contribute towards this problem (yes, it's a problem). The ideal environment for bringing children up is a two parent household with a mother and a father but there is no government policy that encourages or rewards this nor one that disincentivises single parenthood. Instead, we subsidise mothers dumping their babies in nurseries to go back to work (thereby putting pressure on the family and on the marriage). Our social policies corrode family life, take responsibility away from parents (your child's school won't tell you if you 13 y/o gets pregnant!) and push people to rely on the state.

Frankly, I had enough of that misogynistic claptrap from my father in the 60's.

 

[Onthebrightside]

Or, guy on TV the other day, sporting a nice Berghaus jacket that looked almost brand new.

Or, the woman on the TV today who was on benefits and was mystified why she had been evicted from 3 properties but was sitting on a brand new plush beige sofa - (with 3 kids under 5 a perfect beige sofa without a mark on it?) With all her kids dressed in designer trainers worth £100s... but nothing to eat. Couldn't find the money for the electric and yet had unnecessary back-lighting on the mirrors on the walls running throughout the entire interview.

I was unfortunate enough to live next door to such a woman years ago and found out that the moment the council had starting paying her the rent and not the landlord, she hadn't paid a single penny in rent. When he tried to evict her after a year and half of no rent, the council legal team swung into action and did everything they could to stop him. Meanwhile she was throwing boozy parties till 3am and allowed the property to become so run down you could barely see the property through the overgrown bushes.

Literally threw her rubbish into the street (we had to pick up for her to stop the rodents from the park and local dogs eating it) Kids were in designer gear, she was always ordering takeaway and was often out in the local restaurants with her kids. Fat as a fool and laughing at us all for bothering to live any other way. The council then rehoused her into a very plush, larger property on the other side of town.

 

[Onthebrightside]

Probably either shoplifted or got a lucky find at the charity shop, flippin’ scrotes wearing mountain kit in an urban setting like that.

Actually charity shops are pretty savvied up on designer gear now, they sell them at quite a high price, often keep them under lock and key, or send them to shops in the more affluent areas. I gave some jewellery to one in our area and they told me they wouldn't sell it but send it off to cash converters as it was in good condition and they get an instant cash return on it.

 

[MBE2017]

... the moment the council had starting paying her the rent and not the landlord, she hadn't paid a single penny in rent. When he tried to evict her after a year and half of no rent, the council legal team swung into action and did everything they could to stop him.

Councils and charities ALL advise private tenants to wait to be evicted before offering them any help, if they leave voluntarily they are considered to have made themselves homeless. It is a strange world where refusing to leave and incurring extra costs is considered good advice.

Unfortunately this leads to the Landlord losing up to a years rent or more until the eviction can take place, high legal fees, neither of which are ever likely to be paid back. Shortly with a current option of no fault eviction being removed, this will lead to yet more costs, but mainly the tenants having CCJ’s and Landlords leaving the long term rental market in their droves.

As such rents are still on the increase, an average of 20% up on last year, with 30% less property now for rent. I’ll judged Government interference in the private sector will prove hugely expensive for the tax payer shortly, when it can be least afforded.

 

[Bob Morgan]

Actually charity shops are pretty savvied up on designer gear now, they sell them at quite a high price, often keep them under lock and key, or send them to shops in the more affluent areas. I gave some jewellery to one in our area and they told me they wouldn't sell it but send it off to cash converters as it was in good condition and they get an instant cash return on it.

I wonder what happens to the Cash from Cash Converters, on the way back to the Oxfam Shop? - "Would you like a bag for that, dear?"

 

[Ian J]

Most people in the uk are obese though.

I did comment in the summer that whilst overseas on holiday I had noticed that most of the morbidly obese women that we had come across were British

 

[Mark T Jones]

Too much beer, too many chips and kebabs.

Where's my invite?

 

[Mark T Jones]

I did comment in the summer that whilst overseas on holiday I had noticed that most of the morbidly obese women that we had come across were British

Speaking as someone who has teetered on morbidly obose territory and corrected it, I noticed on the journey that we Brits have a bizarre relationship with diet and nutrition

Starting with the wild swing between eating heavily processed muck and demonising entire food groups.

A significant move I made was to massively decrease my meat intake, whilst upping plant based. Whereon I was bombarded by overweight 'carnivores' warning me about protein deficiency. People die by the minute from weight-related issues, I wonder how many die in the UK from deficiency?

Then there is who whole absurd diet industry - an industry that thrives on failure.

Strangely on topic, since Boris told us that he got Covid because he was fat

 

[Bob Morgan]

Strangely on topic, since Boris told us that he got Covid because he was fat

Totally out of character - He was simply lying!

 

[IanSuth]

The only member of my family that ended up majorly on benefits was my late step brother - he was 22st very obese and died of a heart attack aged 32

However the weight gain was due to steroids given to mitigate his gout which was exasperated through his poor diet - he left home at 16 and went to live with his nan who was of the "he doesnt like vegetables though" variety and fed him a diet that worked for her late husband who had farmed and from her Yorkshire cotton mill heavy industry past but was deadly for a sedentary person.

His gout was originally as he had 1 missing kidney and one heavily scared at the Dr's guess from a uti when he was very young that wasn't noticed (step father had gained custody of his children unusually for the early 70's as their mother had neglected them just sat watching tv whilst he was working on the farm)

So i think a lot of the stories behind why people are obese can be quite complicated - definitely as a country we are not good at eating well. If you look around the med even the overwieght locals seem a healthier overweight and they definitely eat a healthier diet.

Are there actually any figures to compare the amount of food cooked from scratch rather than ready meal (or even from a jar) between counties.

That is one thing that I think has been heavily affected by the % of people now working - if there is no one at home and people have a long commute it is harder to cook and eat well (not impossible at all but people are lazy so they grab the jar of Dolmio or grab a ready meal rather than cook a tomato & onion based sauce from scratch)

 

[The Byre]

This thread has taken a strange turn - on the one side, I am drawn to the social argument of caring for those who need help - but on the other side, there seems to be a wholesale abrogation of personal responsibility. Now we have whole industries catering for human needs that used to be the responsibilities of the wider family and neighbourhoods.

When Bismark created the first modern national welfare state in the 1880s - 1890, providing universal health care, education and unemployment, state pensions and disability support, it was supposed to act as a baseline of support. The welfare state was not designed to become a way of life!

People here often have zero idea of what it's like to grow up anywhere except in a cushy envinronment with a social security blanket unpinning everything they do.

But that's everybody including most of us here!

How many times do I have to hear someone say 'They'? As in "They should provide better child care!" (or whatever it is that they are moaning about).

"They should pay the pensioners / single mothers / disabled properly!"

"They should care for the elderly and infirm and provide them with care homes!" Whatever happened to their families? Why are they not looking after the infirm members of their own families? Put Granny in the spare room and you all take turns in changing her nappies! It's what we had to do - why is that no longer possible?

How often do we see here threads started by those "Looking for funding!" and "Are there any government handouts?" Are you kidding me? Is that some species of sick joke? So now the middle classes expect handouts so that their sprogs can be windswept and groovy entrepreneurs.

 

[Ian J]

i think a lot of the stories behind why people are obese can be quite complicated -

That is one thing that I think has been heavily affected by the % of people now working - if there is no one at home and people have a long commute it is harder to cook and eat well (not impossible at all but people are lazy so they grab the jar of Dolmio or grab a ready meal rather than cook a tomato & onion based sauce from scratch)

"A few" of the stories behind why people are overweight may be complex but the vast majority are overweight due to diet. The Daily Mail once described Tamworth as the fat centre of the country where people view McDonalds as health food. On the very rare occasions when I venture into the town centre it seems full of overweight mothers pushing prams and pushchairs with huge bottles of Coca Cola tucked inside.

For those whose busy working lives make it difficult to cook decent meals there is always batch cooking and in the example that you quoted there is always the option of taking out a preprepared tomato sauce from the freezer

 

[Mark T Jones]

The only member of my family that ended up majorly on benefits was my late step brother - he was 22st very obese and died of a heart attack aged 32

However the weight gain was due to steroids given to mitigate his gout which was exasperated through his poor diet - he left home at 16 and went to live with his nan who was of the "he doesnt like vegetables though" variety and fed him a diet that worked for her late husband who had farmed and from her Yorkshire cotton mill heavy industry past but was deadly for a sedentary person.

His gout was originally as he had 1 missing kidney and one heavily scared at the Dr's guess from a uti when he was very young that wasn't noticed (step father had gained custody of his children unusually for the early 70's as their mother had neglected them just sat watching tv whilst he was working on the farm)

So i think a lot of the stories behind why people are obese can be quite complicated - definitely as a country we are not good at eating well. If you look around the med even the overwieght locals seem a healthier overweight and they definitely eat a healthier diet.

Are there actually any figures to compare the amount of food cooked from scratch rather than ready meal (or even from a jar) between counties.

That is one thing that I think has been heavily affected by the % of people now working - if there is no one at home and people have a long commute it is harder to cook and eat well (not impossible at all but people are lazy so they grab the jar of Dolmio or grab a ready meal rather than cook a tomato & onion based sauce from scratch)

Everybody has a story & personal circumstances.

There is a line between helping/supporting & making excuses.

Unfortunately the line is so variable & elusive that nobody quite knows where it is; but we are definitely leaning on the 'excuses' side.

We are currently also going there with mental health. Nobody (in their right mind) can dispute the sense of messages like 'it's OK not to be OK' or 'it's good to talk' - but we are already seeing a wave of situations where mental health becomes a convenient excuse for all kinds of things.

In business terms it comes down to 'own the problem'. Until an individual at least acknowledges their part in the problem, it won't be solved. And this is where the excusers aren't helping at all.

 

[japancool]

Speaking as someone who is slightly underweight and struggles to gain weight - mmm, bacon sandwich.

 

[japancool]

We are currently also going there with mental health. Nobody (in their right mind) can dispute messages like 'it's OK not to be OK' or 'it's good to talk' - but we are already seeing a wave of situations where mental health becomes a convenient excuse for all kinds of things.

Stress is the convenient excuse now. I was severely stressed at work at one point, and that contributed to my kidneys failing but I don't believe it should be a reason to sign off work anywhere near as much as it ia. People often come on this forum and write "I couldn't go to work because I was stressed".

Have we raised a generation of snowflakes?

I can just imagine what Judge Judy would say if someone used that excuse in front of her.

 

[Clinton]

Frankly, I had enough of that misogynistic claptrap from my father in the 60's.

What I love about you is how you provide logical arguments backed by facts and statistics

How often do we see here threads started by those "Looking for funding!" and "Are there any government handouts?" Are you kidding me? Is that some species of sick joke? So now the middle classes expect handouts so that their sprogs can be windswept and groovy entrepreneurs.

That has been creeping up on us - the state gets more and more involved in our personal lives, taking away responsibility but also grasping further control over our money. Take tax credits for example - a system designed by Labour to bring middle income families into the benefits mindset and accustomed to handouts from the government.

It takes £100 from someone, gives them back £5 and spends £10 running the whole demented system!

Tax credits were introduced in 1999 by Gordon Brown and gradually expanded and expanded and expanded. The problem is that when Labour lose power, we get a Labour Lite government and both parties are stuffed to the gills with politicians whose top priority is not the country but themselves and their parties.

This thread has taken a strange turn - on the one side, I am drawn to the social argument of caring for those who need help - but on the other side, there seems to be a wholesale abrogation of personal responsibility. Now we have whole industries catering for human needs that used to be the responsibilities of the wider family and neighbourhoods.

Exactly!

Wanting people to take more responsibility and to rely on the state less is not a heartless position. Those of us who hold that position aren't monsters. We do our bit to help others out (FFS, I've got THREE Ukrainians refugees living in my spare bedrooms!) Let's help people who've hit bad times because of bad luck, not people who've hit bad times because of poor, bad or mindnumbingly stupid life decisions.

But the loony left make it a full time job to abuse and vilify pretty much anything sensible that requires people to own their decsions and actions.

 

[IanSuth]

"A few" of the stories behind why people are overweight may be complex but the vast majority are overweight due to diet. The Daily Mail once described Tamworth as the fat centre of the country where people view McDonalds as health food. On the very rare occasions when I venture into the town centre it seems full of overweight mothers pushing prams and pushchairs with huge bottles of Coca Cola tucked inside.

For those whose busy working lives make it difficult to cook decent meals there is always batch cooking and in the example that you quoted there is always the option of taking out a preprepared tomato sauce from the freezer

Which is why i said harder not impossible

The supermarkets are also to blame - go to Reading and the big Tesco has loads of fresh and tinned veg and a big Polish aisle (as close to the area where the Eastern Europeans settled) with only a couple rows of fridges, go to Horsham where my mum is, similar sized Tesco Extra half the amount of fresh Veg twice the amount of fridge space full of ready meals. West Drayton appears to be half way between the 2

I am sure they are reacting to local demographics to maximise profit but I think it becomes a bit of a feedback loop

 

[Mark T Jones]

Which is why i said harder not impossible

The supermarkets are also to blame - go to Reading and the big Tesco has loads of fresh and tinned veg and a big Polish aisle (as close to the area where the Eastern Europeans settled) with only a couple rows of fridges, go to Horsham where my mum is, similar sized Tesco Extra half the amount of fresh Veg twice the amount of fridge space full of ready meals. West Drayton appears to be half way between the 2

I am sure they are reacting to local demographics to maximise profit but I think it becomes a bit of a feedback loop

Are supermarkets to blame?

Do supermarkets feed the people, or do the people feed supermarkets?

 

[Clodbuster]

Supermarkets are not to blame - they are following demographics . The customer is to blame.

 

[Ian J]

Are supermarkets to blame?

Do supermarkets feed the people, or do the people feed supermarkets?

Without a doubt we get what we deserve. I very much doubt that the Spanish or Greeks would put up with the rubbish that we happily buy

 

[japancool]

It doesn't help that fresh produce is often more expensive than fast-food rubbish.

 

[Mark T Jones]

It doesn't help that fresh produce is often more expensive than fast-food rubbish.

It's a debate that comes up often.

As ever, there are too many variables to reach a proper conclusion.

However, as a matter of absolute fact, it is possible to eat tasty, nutritious meals on a limited budget.