Whenever I see someone claiming expertise without demonstrating it I'm irresistibly reminded of...
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White Hat SEO Is Dead!
- Thread starter seoexpert
- Start date
- Original Poster
- #42
I agree, you're in a league of your own mate. This seems to be you asking for seo help on another forum in June (the site in your member account here is xxxx) which is the same site asking for help but I could of course be wrong? It could have nothing to do with you and just by fluke it's appeared in your profile.
here's some comments from you...
"A week ago our new website was Page 10 using the keywords "B2B Data." However this week it's gone down to page 12 despite submitting our site to google and other search engines and adding a number of backlinks from keyword targetted high PR forums.
Does anyone have an idea why that could be happening? Any advice would be highly appreciated."
"I've read the SEO Optimization Starter guide you've sent me and I'm aware that a few items such as metatags and alts are still to be added"
"I'm finding this all very helpful information, thanks folks.
I know who I'll be coming to when we can provide a budget for SEO further down the line"
"Just a few things I could do with clarification, Autocrat what are SERPs, I've never heard of them before? and which techniques would you suggest I employ to get to a reasonable placing where I could generate enough revenue off traffic to hire professional SEO experts to help increase my rankings."
Just a tip, you could do with sorting out your canonicals but if you ask around here I'm sure someone will help.
Is that the same b2bdatasolutions.com that's no.1 for "b2b data" and in the top 10 across at least 20 different keywords by any chance?
By the looks of the current rankings it doesn't need any work on the site... It's doing fine.... plus it's no longer my site I sold it a while ago and It's ranking haven't change since.... "proof of Grey Hats Stability"
In fact If anything this example is reinforcing the fact that by using Grey Hat Techniques and with minimal experience.. anyone can easily compete in rankings against Serious More Established White Hat SEO's.... thus proving my point "White Hat is Dead"
You ever heard the quote "it takes a smart brunette to play a dumb blonde..."
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Competition for "b2b data" is 11,400 and there's still "noise" in that figure too.
http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=ps...=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=80a1f8b8e7e8c190
Give us something in the millions, you're the expert here. Oh... by the way that domain is still registered in your name as Whois is showing you as the site owner.
Off now, have White Hat work to do.
http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=ps...=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=80a1f8b8e7e8c190
Give us something in the millions, you're the expert here. Oh... by the way that domain is still registered in your name as Whois is showing you as the site owner.
Off now, have White Hat work to do.
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- Original Poster
- #44
Yeah I could do that but I'm not stupid and neither are you.
If I give you one of my best domains, I wouldn't be surprised if one of you decides to scrape the backlinks and emulates them with a keyword rich domain...
Kind counter intuitive if you ask me.... You've got one domain there.... that's proof enough I'ld say.
If I give you one of my best domains, I wouldn't be surprised if one of you decides to scrape the backlinks and emulates them with a keyword rich domain...
Kind counter intuitive if you ask me.... You've got one domain there.... that's proof enough I'ld say.
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H
herodigital
Anyone who wants to criticise, my actual Rebuttal is "Give me a keyword and I'll challenge any of you on it"
I'm looking for another "SEO to sell" project so...
Words mean nothing, the proof is in the pudding folks!
you're an idiot, and here's why...
- you have provided no value to this forum
- you boast about your abilities but have so far not given anything away about what you actually do
- you are actively promoting "grey hat" which i'm sure every SEO is guilty of at some point, but have the sense not to go on about it
- you seem hostile toward "white hat" techniques, which is in itself utterly stupid
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- Original Poster
- #48
Oh btw Tin Soldier.... for your own website under your chosen keywords your rankings are:
"web design derbyshire" 31st.
"web design" not even recognised
"tin soldier" 3rd
With rankings like that....especially considering you can't even rank 1st on your company name I don't think you're in a position to criticise.
SEO Expert 1 - Tin Soldier 0
"web design derbyshire" 31st.
"web design" not even recognised
"tin soldier" 3rd
With rankings like that....especially considering you can't even rank 1st on your company name I don't think you're in a position to criticise.
SEO Expert 1 - Tin Soldier 0
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Um, declaring yourself the winner isn't how it works. The readers are the judge of that.
Your comments above are amongst the more fatuous I've ever seen. Comparing a search term like, "web design" (half a BILLION hits) or "tin soldier" (which has a clearly defined non-SEO meaning) with your chosen "b2b data" is simply risible.
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- Original Poster
- #50
Hero Marketing
Chosen Keyword : SEO Leeds : Rank 20th
Again not good ranking for a company specialising in SEO. Tell me oh wise one, what percentage of 5400 local monthly searches do you get for ranking 20th?? I'll tell you how many come through on my disclosed no.1 ranking 100%...
Here's my 2 cents for you, right now you ought to increase the number of high PR anchor text backlinks from relevant sites.
Or next time choose a less competitive keyword.. you're clearly in over your head.
By the way Tom the competition index on SEO Leeds is less than B2B Data. I chose the harder keyword to crack.
Tim: Free Payroll Software: Rank 1: 1600 local hits per month....
Well Tom, You seem to know more about SEO that both Hero and Tin Soldier put together Not a good advertisement for their services though.
Chosen Keyword : SEO Leeds : Rank 20th
Again not good ranking for a company specialising in SEO. Tell me oh wise one, what percentage of 5400 local monthly searches do you get for ranking 20th?? I'll tell you how many come through on my disclosed no.1 ranking 100%...
Here's my 2 cents for you, right now you ought to increase the number of high PR anchor text backlinks from relevant sites.
Or next time choose a less competitive keyword.. you're clearly in over your head.
By the way Tom the competition index on SEO Leeds is less than B2B Data. I chose the harder keyword to crack.
Tim: Free Payroll Software: Rank 1: 1600 local hits per month....
Well Tom, You seem to know more about SEO that both Hero and Tin Soldier put together
Not a good advertisement for their services though.
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Tom: Free Payroll Software: Rank 1: 1600 local hits per month....
Well Tom, You seem to know more about SEO that both Hero and Tin Soldier put together
I'll just fix that for you.
Payroll Software: Rank 1: 14800 local hits per month.
Now, that *is* a good advertisement for Tin's services.
And with that, I'm outa here. I haven't been following my own advice
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- Original Poster
- #52
I'll just fix that for you.
Payroll Software: Rank 1: 14800 local hits per month.
Now, that *is* a good advertisement for Tin's services.
And with that, I'm outa here. I haven't been following my own advice
Touche... I'll give them that one then.
Still they definately need to spend more time on SEOing their own site as their rank is pretty shoddy.
Also considering that you're both active members on this forum I'm surprised they haven't suggested you put keyword anchors on the urls in your signature.
As you're a regular poster that would have meant to date that you would have gained an extra 1400 keyword rich anchortext backlinks off an authority domain (UKBF).
Thinking about it though, I guess that would be counter productive for them, because I presume they want to squeeze as much money out of you as possible.
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H
herodigital
Hero Marketing
Chosen Keyword : SEO Leeds : Rank 20th
Again not good ranking for a company specialising in SEO. Tell me oh wise one, what percentage of 5400 local monthly searches do you get for ranking 20th?? I'll tell you how many come through on my disclosed no.1 ranking 100%...
Here's my 2 cents for you, right now you ought to increase the number of high PR anchor text backlinks from relevant sites.
Or next time choose a less competitive keyword.. you're clearly in over your head.
By the way Tom the competition index on SEO Leeds is less than B2B Data. I chose the harder keyword to crack.
Tim: Free Payroll Software: Rank 1: 1600 local hits per month....
Well Tom, You seem to know more about SEO that both Hero and Tin Soldier put together
lol, you actually are an idiot, i was just saying that to intentionally cause offence before...
not all businesses need to rank in google to succeed - my business comes from work of mouth recommendations and networking. there's just no way i'm going to pile loads of time and resources into getting a trophy phrase on google for it to deliver a bit of mediocre traffic.
that's for snake oily types like yourself to sell...
i might have a little bit of respect for you if you were actually good, but boasting about "gaming the system" is not only unprofessional, it's not going to make you any friends. i pity your clients and everybody who is cursed to work with you.
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- Original Poster
- #54
Think I've touched a nerve there, as now you're resorting to petty name calling.
Read my signature, I'm not in here to make friend, I'm here to get results.
Considering that SEO is a highly competitive industry.... If you can't even SEO your own keywords properly how on earth can you convince your "customers" that you are the best company to look after their SEO needs.
SEO is about the best equipped to do the job, the best SEO's get the best rankings, and the best SEO's can get the best rankings on whatever keyword they choose.
If you're that good at SEO (as you imply) it wouldn't take "piles of time and resources" to get "SEO Leeds" ranking, simply because you're that good. Guess you can't be that good because you've already established it'll take too much time and resources for you to handle.
Seriously come on, who you kidding.... how many SEO companies are there in Leeds... not that many.... which means 20th is a truely dismal ranking.
At the end of the day, you're a networking expert... not an SEO expert. So stop prancing around like you're anything different.
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herodigital
lol, there's like two industry leading agencies in leeds.
why would i concern myself with ranking for trophy terms when i don't need to?
also, SEO is a little more holistic than what you seem to think it is. you are supposed to be working with the client to increase their overall traffic, increase their overall business.
something tells me your "techniques" do not extend beyond buying links to get trophy terms. your arrogance is annoying, your results feigned and i just hope you're a cocky 17 year old with nothing better to do than wind people up on forums. i dread to think you actually have clients.
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- Original Poster
- #58
OK, why do I presume you're not one of those two agencies....
I think you're getting confused between SEO and SEM.
And btw I'm actually a full time mature graduate inhouse SEO expert, whose peeved off with rubbish SEO companies who, despite their inability to SEO their own chosen keywords, like to pretend they are good at SEO, by taking focus away from the core elements, traffic and conversions.
Every client I've got has always been happy with what I do, because I get results but I would love to see what your customer retention rate is.
My thoughts are Why even bother to try and SEO for SEO Leeds if you're going to give up half way through.... it seems like "you tried, failed, changed strategy, and then tried to make yourself feel better by calling SEO Leeds a trophy phrase" rather than acknowledging it for what it is... "a targetted buying keyword that draws in a fair amount of relevant customers and proves your prowess at SEO"
Yeah perhaps I'm beginning to look a bit arrogant, but hey at least I'm not looking incompetent like you.
Also as far I'm concerned I'm doing people a favour here, by pointing out how rubbish your techniques are...
PS. Never Bought a Link in my life... no need
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I tend to agree with the OP, and think besides his attitude being a bit crazy he has some valid points.
I can't tell if other people really have no idea about competitive SEO or just not wanting to admit to shady tactics to save face,,,
Lets be honest if your not buying at least buying relevant links as an SEO then please go...
Also on this forum I hate how theres a sense of elitism from regular posters on the SEO side when they have no basis for it,, and how some of you always try to over complicate SEO and make out like theres a million and one secret tricks,,,
The reality is, SEO is simple, a solid link building campaign is 99% of it, theres only a handful fo basics you need to know, and once you get to a certain level (not very hard), the only thing that seperates someone from the next is your budget,,
Glad to get that of my chest been wanting to say it for years
I can't tell if other people really have no idea about competitive SEO or just not wanting to admit to shady tactics to save face,,,
Lets be honest if your not buying at least buying relevant links as an SEO then please go...
Also on this forum I hate how theres a sense of elitism from regular posters on the SEO side when they have no basis for it,, and how some of you always try to over complicate SEO and make out like theres a million and one secret tricks,,,
The reality is, SEO is simple, a solid link building campaign is 99% of it, theres only a handful fo basics you need to know, and once you get to a certain level (not very hard), the only thing that seperates someone from the next is your budget,,
Glad to get that of my chest been wanting to say it for years
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Are well that explains a lot.
See Laddie the more experienced SEO's have no need to or want to rank highly for SEO traffic,as in general they have enough work for the next 300 years.
Most provided by recommendations,word of mouth and proof of there abilities to obtain highly competative rankings.
Something you seem reluctant to do.?:|
Nothing like showing a few good rankings to gain the respect of your peers in the world of SEO.
Earl
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- Original Poster
- #63
Are well that explains a lot.
See Laddie the more experienced SEO's have no need to or want to rank highly for SEO traffic,as in general they have enough work for the next 300 years.
Most provided by recommendations,word of mouth and proof of there abilities to obtain highly competative rankings.
Something you seem reluctant to do.?:|
Nothing like showing a few good rankings to gain the respect of your peers in the world of SEO.
Earl
Cheers Earl, It's nice to see your interesting perspective.
My main point is that "white hat SEO is nowhere near as effective as Greyhat techniques"
Great they may be getting results using whitehat techniques and got a reputation from doing so... but whitehat is slow and takes double the time it takes to get the same results using greyhat.
It's like the agile programming vs. hardcoding argument. It seems that the traditionalists tend to refuse to admit there are better methods out there than the ones they are currently employing.
I think that's because they aren't up to scratch with them, are fearful of change and are so convinced of their own self righteousness that they are unwilling to explore those options.
It's indicative of alot of the problems in society in general.
I've put a challenge out there and not one of these traditionalists have taken me up on it, yet they are quick to criticise.... It's mindblowing.
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I'm an OAP what do you expect.?
Still trying to work out how to use me mobile phone.:|
Fortunately me slightly dated designs don't seem to put the punters off.
Although we do have a couple of designs a tad more modern.
http://www.volkswagenspares.com/
Fortunatey not designed by me.
Earl
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herodigital
In fact cheers, Hero.. You've just helped me decide what keyword I'm going for now..... "SEO Leeds"
See you in a couple of months when I'm racing past you
you're an idiot.
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Well personaly I will use whatever colour hat suits the situation,with the major proviso that I am not going to risk a ban on a multi million pound site or in fact on any site that is earning a decent income.
New projects may benefit from more extreme forms of SEO initially but as a long term strategy not to be recommended.IMHO
Earl
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H
herodigital
agreed. you can get links by whatever means necessary to boost a site in the short term, but you need to make it sustainable. there is no point in having to "top up" an SEO campaign constantly, else the cost is surely going to outweigh the return.
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gemd89
Okay, theres the challenge, but hell of alot of results for that keyword and mine is a new site - if you can do it you prove all these guys wrong so put your efforts there, how much for page 1?
Gemma
Gemma
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H
herodigital
Congratulations, first intelligent thing you've said all day... keep up the good work
btw.... to show there's no hard feelings I'll let you buy my new domain when it's ranking above you for "seo leeds". Ain't that nice of me
LOL... OK!
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T
trebor8
but for how long? i thought this was an area Google are looking into.
To me there is no such thing as SEO beyond the onpage stuff.
The rest is marketing, getting you're name out there, drawing in the crowds (visitors and links).
As a site owner, you need to ask yourself how much of a risk are you willing to take.
Although, I dont totally disagree with the Ops argument, I personally wouldnt use an SEOExpert, if the methods used are purely based on grey hat techniques.
Tempting tho!
Could and does this scenario happen?
PartyDress Seller A uses white hat seo
PartyDress Seller B uses grey hat seo
B comes along knocks A off top spot
A doesnt like this, after all they spent a lot time, effort, money getting there.
A suspects B for foul play and reports to G
G investigates and decides yep, you have violated our guidelines.
Goodbye B
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I'd rather employ someone with a proven track record than someone who spend all their time improving their own ranking. Some of the people I use don't even have a website...
There was another thread you may have seen asking about the benefits of full membership. The OP wasn't interested in making friends either and they have already withered into oblivion.
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Does anyone have experience of this? I've reported loads of sites in the past and none have been deleted or even demoted.
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- Original Poster
- #75
What better way to check an SEO's company profiency, than to check their SEO ranking. Anyone can use ppc, affiliate marketing, adsense etc. to improve their rankings temporarily and References can be faked.
But only those truely great at SEO can get their site ranked under competitive SEO terms consistently.
On a different I like the fact that I was browsing the internet the other day and I saw Old Welsh Guy ranking No.1 under "Google Expert" - that's someone who would get my SEO contract.
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What better way to check an SEO's company profiency, than to check their SEO ranking. Anyone can use ppc, affiliate marketing, adsense etc. to improve their rankings temporarily and References can be faked.
But only those truely great at SEO can get their site ranked under competitive SEO terms consistently.
On a different I like the fact that I was browsing the internet the other day and I saw Old Welsh Guy ranking No.1 under "Google Expert" - that's someone who would get my SEO contract.
I'll challenge you for 'Viagra' you get one position... I get 10... then again you may just copy my work :|
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What better way to check an SEO's company profiency, than to check their SEO ranking. Anyone can use ppc, affiliate marketing, adsense etc. to improve their rankings temporarily and References can be faked.
But only those truely great at SEO can get their site ranked under competitive SEO terms consistently.
On a different I like the fact that I was browsing the internet the other day and I saw Old Welsh Guy ranking No.1 under "Google Expert" - that's someone who would get my SEO contract.
Wow - it is like an epsode of Eastenders, Coronation Street and Emmerdale all rolled in to one!!
I heave heard good and bad points from everyone on here - even some good ones from you SEOexpert but the above is so wrong it is untrue as is what you are saying about ranking for the SEO leeds term!
Firstly - getting rank for keywords is obviously worthwhile and will help you as a business, but only if acheiving the position makes commercial sense!
You mention it is easy to sponsor a term i.e. SEO Leeds, which I wholeheartedly agree - but until you researched what being optimised for this term and measured the data and converison with reference to level of enquiries it returns then why would you waste your time??
This particular phrase is a waste of time so I would say anybody trying to actively optimise it are worse at SEO than those that arent! why......well because the term may generate in the region of 1600 searches, the competition is terrible and it is at the lowest possible sponsor value (0.04p) in adwords so what does that tell you?
There is far more to SEO than saying "I bet I can get to number 1 for this, that and the other term"
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Nope. The best way to test the proficiency of an SEO company is to check the ranking of their clients.
Those truly great at SEO don't need to rank well themselves, they get all the referrals they need without self promotion.
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- Original Poster
- #79
I did do a quick research experiment into "SEO Leeds". seoleeds.net is leading at the mo, which granted is a keyword rich domain, and the anchors are relevant. However they don't have many links pointing at it at though.
Using greyhat techniques I could easily get about 10k recognised anchor links pointing at by the end of the month with minimal effort from me.
Semi Automation all the way....
Linkwheels, RSS Aggregation, Article Submission, Spinnable Content, RSS Pings, Auto Directory Submissions, etc.
I guess the question here, is how hard it is to get ranking on that search term...
I consider it easy and if I greyhat it I'll do it in no time flat... But all I can see is that whatemcalled company tried, and gave up.
Bear in mind as well that SEO Leeds is a buying keyword.... generally going to be people looking for SEO services in the leeds area...
From my point of view ranking on "SEO Leeds" is pure profit.
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- Original Poster
- #80
Personally I consider it all scaremongering otherwise you'll have loads of instances of competitors sites being attacked with blackhat techniques and then reported in order to get demoted. Any Links that looked suspicious are just discounted, that's all. An example being.... one of my domains is actually imitating one of googles products in the entire domain name... it hasn't been blacklisted or anything. Unless a site is shown to be fraudulent it isn't removed
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