When exactly are "bank holidays"?

[Employment Law Clinic]

I was replying to a post on a forum today where the employer makes the typical reference to "20 days holidays plus bank & public holidays" in their contracts.

I'm well documented for not favouring this option (a simple offering of 28 days is much more sensible), but as on this occasion reference was made to "UK bank & public holidays", I felt it appropriate to point out that these are different across the UK. But then looking into the legislation on bank & public holidays (this doesn't cover all days for some historical reasons that I haven't looked at), it appears the former can fall on a Saturday, and "substitute" days only apply if the day is a Sunday.

If I'm reading that correctly, that suggests to me that anyone referring to "bank & public holidays" in their employment contracts would inadvertently be providing extra days where the "bank holiday" falls on a Saturday.

I haven't read, let alone researched, the legislation in any depth (I can't even find what I assume will be Statutory Instruments to declare the dates for any given year), so wondered if anyone had thoughts (or reliable references - not direct.gov, etc, but legislation!) on this?


Karl Limpert

 

[yorkshirejames]

An immediate thought is that if an employer is silly enough to state "UK bank & public holidays" then this would give about 12 days (i.e. the different days for the countries that make up the UK).

My preferred approach is also to state "28 days".

 

But bank holidays fall on specific days,So one could not simply put 28 days holiday.?

Earl

 

[KM-Tiger]

So one could not simply put 28 days holiday.?

Yes, that is the better approach IMHO, and when I was an employer we ran holidays on an accrual basis, which seemed to me more straightforward than "holiday years" which all gets messy if employees come and go a lot.

But the Bank/Public Holidays are a mess - which are they officially called - and why do some countries get more? I thought we were all in this together now ...

 

[ANOTHER REBEL]

An immediate thought is that if an employer is silly enough to state "UK bank & public holidays" then this would give about 12 days (i.e. the different days for the countries that make up the UK).

There are as far as I can work out only six such days which are common throughout the UK. The remainder are reional variations.

I would read "UK bank and public holidays" as referring to the holidays that were common throughout the Uk, and not the total throughout the UK.

The important point is that although employees are entitled to have time off for Bank and Public Holidays or the designated Holiday in lieu when a Bank or Public Holiday falls on a weekend, they are not entitled to be paid for these days.

How far an employer would want to take this depends on the relationship he wishes to have with his staff.

 

[ccp consultancy]

Hey Karl: You have been quiet - welcome back.

The important point is that although employees are entitled to have time off for Bank and Public Holidays or the designated Holiday in lieu when a Bank or Public Holiday falls on a weekend, they are not entitled to be paid for these days.

Not necessarily - the law as it stands is 28 days holiday (of which can include Bank holidays) - so assuming that the employment contract only proivdes 20 days holiday - then they would legally be entitled to pay for the remaining 8 banki holidays

But then there are also many years where Her Madge gives us an extra 2 days bank holidays in June - so unless the contract is 28 days inclusive of Bank Holidays then this will provide for a further 2 days holiday that the employer has to pay

The UK variations can be a bit troublesome if you have a company with employess in all 4 quarters, but my general view is that the UK & Scottish bank holidays are

New Years Day (varies every year)
Good Friday (same every year)
Easter Monday (same every year)
Spring BH * 2 in May (same every year)
August BH (varies every year)
Christmas & Boxing Day (varies every year)

Which I make 8 - (but I remember a pub quiz where I was told this was wrong and that the actual number of BH in the UK was 6, and still do not understand how this is correct)


NI - have the additional St Patricks Day & Orangemens day

ROI - have St Patricks Day & a BH in June & October (but they are governed by different employment law to the UK - so rules for holiday may differ anyway)

So if you have a full UK company I think you should only have a x days holiday inclusive of BH or this could be quite unfair

So IMHO - I prefer to see contracts that say 28 days holiday of which BH are included (or more days if the employer is super generous)

 

[Earlsweb]

Its much safer to state 5.6 weeks It was intereting as well with easter moving, it works out as 10 standard bank holidays in this March-April calender year so you would offer the employee 30 days holiday this year but only 26 the next (of course you would have to make it up to 28 for statutory purposes)

 

[ANOTHER REBEL]

"The UK variations can be a bit troublesome if you have a company with employess in all 4 quarters, but my general view is that the UK & Scottish bank holidays are"

New Years Day (varies every year) - Agreed
Good Friday (same every year) - Agreed
Easter Monday (same every year) - Not a Bank Holiday in Scotland
Spring BH * 2 in May (same every year) - Agreed
August BH (varies every year) - Occurs at begining of August in Scotland end of August elsewhere.
Christmas & Boxing Day (varies every year) - AGREED


Which I make 8 - (but I remember a pub quiz where I was told this was wrong and that the actual number of BH in the UK was 6, and still do not understand how this is correct)
Only six fall on the same date.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Only six fall on the same date.

How do you work that out?

Surely it's only three that are always on the same date?

Christmas Day - 25th Dec
Boxing Day - 26th Dec
New Years Day - 1st Jan

All of the rest are on the same day of the week, but not the same date.

 

[ANOTHER REBEL]

I am referring to the same date in any particular year. August Bank holiday in Scotland is the 1st Monday in August. Elsewhere it is the last monday in August, and therefore it is not an UK wide Bank Holiday. Therefore there all only six dates in any particular year when there is a UK wide bank holiday.
The exact dates of some of these changes each year, depending on the lunar cycle etc.

 

[mariefab]

Good Friday and Christmas Day were already common-law public holidays, or days of rest, before the introduction of Bank holidays.

 

[Christiane]

Interesting.
How about this year's Christmas bank holidays?
They fall on Saturday/Sunday, yet the official bank holidays are on Monday/Tuesday.

One of my staff works three days a week, Monday/Friday/Saturday, she won't work Saturday and Monday which I count both as Bank Holidays for her.

Other staff work the standard Monday-Friday and they still get 2 bank holidays.


Anecdote: In France, for instance, staff will not get an ''extra'' day. 25th December is a bank holiday and they will not get an extra day's holidays on the Monday, unlike in the UK. When bank holidays are on Saturdays, staff who work Mon-Fri just lose out.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Thank you all for the replies... which only seem to confirm the confusion that exists over bank & public holidays – and why it's advisable not to include mention of them in employment contracts.

But bank holidays fall on specific days,So one could not simply put 28 days holiday.?

Earl

They don't fall on specific days, and there is no obligation in employment law to provide the days off, so you can simply put 28 days in an employment contract.

The important point is that although employees are entitled to have time off for Bank and Public Holidays or the designated Holiday in lieu when a Bank or Public Holiday falls on a weekend, they are not entitled to be paid for these days.

Employees have no right to time off for bank and public holidays. They have the right to 28 days off a year, which goes further than the European directive on time-off to compensate for bank & public holidays, but they have no specific right to bank holidays off, and employers can either require staff to work on these days (with or without extra pay at the discretion of the employer), or require staff to use their holiday entitlement to cover these days.

Hey Karl: You have been quiet - welcome back.

Thanks Clare. Family were catching-up in America and insisting I didn't do anything to do with work! (I done a bit, but not much, and slowly catching up since.)

Good Friday and Christmas Day were already common-law public holidays, or days of rest, before the introduction of Bank holidays.

This is an important point – from what I can understand, these are public holidays but not (in law at least) bank holidays. There appear to be 5 bank holidays in England & Wales, provided by the Banking and Financial Dealings Act 1971 (I haven't looked for the law that provides the May Day holiday, so maybe 6), and the law – at Schedule 1 of the Act (where the days are listed) – also automatically moves these to a Monday where they fall on a Sunday... but not if they fall on a Saturday!

There is the option to change the date of bank holidays by Royal Proclamation, and the latest trace I can find of this is a meeting of the Privy Council on 21 July that appointed "Monday 3rd January and Monday 2nd May 2011 as Bank Holidays in England, Wales and Northern Ireland; and appointing Tuesday 12th July 2011 as a Bank Holiday in Northern Ireland". However, I can find nothing about Christmas 2010 for example, and if this is assumed in law to be a public holiday, and 28 December 2010 is a substitute day, without some declaration that 25 December is not a public holiday (or that 28 December is a public holiday instead of 25) where does any employer stand if these dates & the respective entitlement to leave were challenged by an employee? It seems to me to add to the argument to provide 28 days leave, and make no mention of bank holidays in contracts.



Karl Limpert

 

[Goblin]

Anecdote: In France, for instance, staff will not get an ''extra'' day. 25th December is a bank holiday and they will not get an extra day's holidays on the Monday, unlike in the UK. When bank holidays are on Saturdays, staff who work Mon-Fri just lose out.

This is the same in Holland - I remember being quite happy (as an employee) when I first got here and discovered my bank/national holidays falling in a weekend would roll over to the next available working day ... and there I was thinking that the UK was 'worse' than the Continent when it came to employee rights etc

 

[ANOTHER REBEL]

Slightly off the point, but many businesses I would mention Solicitors and Accountants in particular now close for a week or more between Christmas and the New Year.

Does this form part of their staff's holiday entitlement?

 

[ccp consultancy]

Slightly off the point, but many businesses I would mention Solicitors and Accountants in particular now close for a week or more between Christmas and the New Year.

Does this form part of their staff's holiday entitlement?

A business is able to stipulate in the contract that business will be closed x days a year and you must reserve x days holiday to cover this - quite common place.

There is also the Easter Sunday implications for large retail stores that are legally not allowed to trade - some retailers ask staff to take this as holiday, others undertake staff training on this day

Some employers expect people to work on BH and make provisions for payment or time off in lieu

There is quite a lot of scope for holiday leave and payment within the law - as long as everyone gets at least 28 days (pro rata if applicable) paid annual leave

Most problems that arise are when dealing with atypical workers such as part time, flexi workers, night workers, casual workers or temporary workers

Most of these can be avoided be ensuring your employment contract is watertight - which is a pitful for many employers who buy off the shelf contracts assuming they are one type fits all - a quick reckie with an employment law specialist is often one sure way to avoid any costly mistakes

 

[yorkshirejames]

Its much safer to state 5.6 weeks It was intereting as well with easter moving, it works out as 10 standard bank holidays in this March-April calender year so you would offer the employee 30 days holiday this year but only 26 the next (of course you would have to make it up to 28 for statutory purposes)

This is a very interesting point. Staff/unions with a bit of nouse will doubtless use this to get an extra two days where a contract or holiday policy is sufficiently vague.

http://www.gmarts.org/index.php?go=413 lists easter dates.