What I have learned on this forum - Britain Beware

[LTK82]

Since joining UK Business Forums and reading the very many threads I have begun to realise that Britain is even further away from becoming a future-driven, technology powerhouse.

I have been struck by the way in which SME owners and managers seem to pay little regard to the future and to innovation, generally poo-pooing the ideas of others and are stuck so ardently in the present and occasionally even the past. Britain has, until recently in history, been at the forefront of design, innovation and engineering but there is scant evidence of it within the virtual walls of these forums. It is almost as if the industrial revolution never happened.

Far from being a supportive business community I have found the responses in some threads to be hostile, aggressive and to be blunt; dense. It is a shame that such a community cannot give constructive feedback and promote good advice rather than the current trend of spewing venom on new ideas, thoughts and discussions.

And before, dear Reader, you assume that I have been personally offended by comments or responses to my own threads and posts I must add that this little rant is not fuelled by any self-pity but by the way in which I can see others treated on this message board; with disrespect, aggression and a reasonable dollop of suspicion.

Britain: A Nation of Angry Shopkeepers. Discuss ...

 

[Banned]

So what do you do then Sir, beyond Twitter?

 

[Richie N]

Personally, I think you haven't been on here long enough to see the benefits that the forum has to offer and the support other members do give.
You seem to be pin pointing the small minority here.

 

[fisicx]

you haven't been here long enough to get to know the characters, the numpties, the spammers and all the others in-between.

There are many who understand and use the technologies you mention but there are many others who are quite happy being a shopkeeper.

There is much good advise given and received. People are blunt because many of the ideas and suggestions are misinformed or just plain daft.

I've had my ideas and suggestions questioned and ridiculed many times. It has made be reconsider and has prevented me heading off down the wrong path.

If your ideas are poked and picked upon then just maybe it is you that needs to think again rather than the shopkeeper who isn't embracing your vision.

 

[LTK82]

you haven't been here long enough to get to know the characters, the numpties, the spammers and all the others in-between.

There are many who understand and use the technologies you mention but there are many others who are quite happy being a shopkeeper.

There is much good advise given and received. People are blunt because many of the ideas and suggestions are misinformed or just plain daft.

I've had my ideas and suggestions questioned and ridiculed many times. It has made be reconsider and has prevented me heading off down the wrong path.

If your ideas are poked and picked upon then just maybe it is you that needs to think again rather than the shopkeeper who isn't embracing your vision.

Did you manage to get to my last paragraph before you donned your cape and hit the keyboard?

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Personally, I think you haven't been on here long enough to see the benefits that the forum has to offer and the support other members do give.
You seem to be pin pointing the small minority here.

Yes I agree, give it a little more time and I think you'll change your opinion.

I've been here a little while and yes you get a few who are negative/harsh/rude but I do think that's the minority only.

 

[LTK82]

Personally, I think you haven't been on here long enough to see the benefits that the forum has to offer and the support other members do give.
You seem to be pin pointing the small minority here.

I can indeed see the benefits. I have personally received comments and DMs that have been exceptionally useful.

You're right that I haven't been here long enough to see all of the benefits but I have been here long enough to see how some of the comments on here shame the UK business community and are unworthy of 'supposed' business owners.

I don't know that it is a reflection of the minority, I hope that it is ...

 

[LTK82]

So what do you do then Sir, beyond Twitter?

I do many things; I invest in new businesses. I advise other businesses on marketing strategy and I actively champion start-up businesses. How about you?

 

[OldWelshGuy]

The only problem here Lee is that you can't see the whole of the forum, only the free areas. The attitude inside the private members areas is a lot different, mainly because the idiots are not paid members, and the people in there have paid.

now please don't think I am saying that paid members are better than free members because I am not. What I am saying is that the high quality posts on the main forum often get swallowed up by the low quality noise that is there. Unfortunately on an open forum you get some sad indivilduals who troll, they just join forums, and post drivel. They get banned, they then return. Technology is such that completely banning somone is nigh on impossible.

I do agree though that many members take a negative stance, that is just a sign of the times I think, because as the recession has gone on, I have noticed attitudes changing as the stress kicks in. I have witnessed this across society, on this forum, on my sports forum, and within sport and society (I am involved in running junior sport at a fairly decent level). we have noticed parental stress driven behaviour go up dramatically.

Sadly, there are also people who can only make themselves feel good, by putting others down. Fact of life

 

[LTK82]

The only problem here Lee is that you can't see the whole of the forum, only the free areas. The attitude inside the private members areas is a lot different, mainly because the idiots are not paid members, and the people in there have paid.

now please don't think I am saying that paid members are better than free members because I am not. What I am saying is that the high quality posts on the main forum often get swallowed up by the low quality noise that is there. Unfortunately on an open forum you get some sad indivilduals who troll, they just join forums, and post drivel. They get banned, they then return. Technology is such that completely banning somone is nigh on impossible.

I do agree though that many members take a negative stance, that is just a sign of the times I think, because as the recession has gone on, I have noticed attitudes changing as the stress kicks in. I have witnessed this across society, on this forum, on my sports forum, and within sport and society (I am involved in running junior sport at a fairly decent level). we have noticed parental stress driven behaviour go up dramatically.

Sadly, there are also people who can only make themselves feel good, by putting others down. Fact of life

Nice pitch (I know it wasn't), I might just come in from the cold. If you're right I hope the economic situation improves soon - I might send a cheque to HMRC

 

[Banned]

I do agree though that many members take a negative stance, that is just a sign of the times I think, because as the recession has gone on, I have noticed attitudes changing as the stress kicks in.

That is something I've been accused off, but there is a big difference between being negative and being realistic particularly, as you say, during recessionary times.

Just because advice isn't all positive doesn't mean it's not good or valid.

OP have a look in the retail section, despite a lot of "negativity", or as a member put it "gallows humour" there are a number of members there that have taken our advice and committed to and opened shops in recent months.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Nice pitch? why would I pitch? I am a volunteer, I have no financial interest.

Sorry lee but have a quick read back at your posts, they are in fact reflecting all that you claim is bad.

Your posts in this thread could well have been taken as aggressive, e.g sarcastic (donned your cape ) agrressive (what about you), accusatory (nice pitch). Now I believe that this is just your way, a bit of humour, but others may take it as trolling and arrogance, i.e. starting a thread criticising the very community you are posting it in is of course self promoting by way of proven link baiting methods.

Is UKBF perfect? NOPE! Are people perfect? NOPE! is UKBF made up of people? YEP

 

[LTK82]

Nice pitch? why would I pitch? I am a volunteer, I have no financial interest.

Sorry lee but have a quick read back at your posts, they are in fact reflecting all that you claim is bad.

Your posts in this thread could well have been taken as aggressive, e.g sarcastic (donned your cape ) agrressive (what about you), accusatory (nice pitch). Now I believe that this is just your way, a bit of humour, but others may take it as trolling and arrogance, i.e. starting a thread criticising the very community you are posting it in is of course self promoting by way of proven link baiting methods.

Is UKBF perfect? NOPE! Are people perfect? NOPE! is UKBF made up of people? YEP

The nice pitch comment was clearly an attempt at humour (look at the brackets immediately after it). I assure you that this is far from a baiting method and you'll notice the absence of any business name or link in my signature, profile or posts. Aggression and sarcasm are different and I employed sarcasm only because a whole post dedicated to berating my initial post had entirely missed the point.

I would not ever think or even dare to hope that any internet forum would be perfect. We have not quite reached More's Utopia yet. But I would have hoped for more helpful debate, more encouragement for the younger entrepreneurs that come here and just perhaps the occasional glimpse into the future. The future of every country is dominated by the businesses within it and sometimes the negativity exposed on here and be a tad depressing.

 

[jigsawfloor]

I dont really think your post count should matter. It doesn't make you any better at business or indeed advising others about their business because your post count isn't upwards of a thousand. I have only been here a short time myself and some people do seem to be quite rude, but then again I think sometimes posters can be misconstrued and obviously we can all read things different ways. I have however found this forum and its' members to be extremely informative and visit here everyday

 

[bdw]

How to win friends and influence people, eh?

... Britain is even further away ...

... generally poo-pooing the ideas of others ...

... but there is scant evidence of it within the virtual walls of these forums...

... Far from being a supportive business community I have found the responses in some threads to be hostile, aggressive and to be blunt; dense.

... spewing venom on new ideas, thoughts and discussions.

... And before, dear Reader ...

... the way in which I can see others treated on this message board; with disrespect, aggression and a reasonable dollop of suspicion.

... I have been here long enough to see how some of the comments on here shame the UK business community and are unworthy of 'supposed' business owners.

... The future of every country is dominated by the businesses within it and sometimes the negativity exposed on here and be a tad depressing.

... Did you manage to get to my last paragraph before you donned your cape and hit the keyboard?

 

[LTK82]

Erm is that not rude or are you somehow special. If after making twenty eight posts you find the majority of the people on here negative etc etc blah blah blah then you could always log out.
I'm sorry but I find you slightly condescending and Also rude but even worse than that a hypocrite

Don't be sorry for your opinion. I never said it was the majority. If everyone washed their hands of everything they found distasteful the world would never improve, don't you think?

Again, that comment of mine is copy and pasted entirely out of context. It came straight after a post that had entirely missed the point and was designed to berate my own post. I admit it may have been flippant but my last paragraph in the original post completely removed any reason for the post following it.

 

[LTK82]

How to win friends and influence people, eh?

Sometimes you just have to get things off your chest.

 

[LTK82]

But to come on a forum where a great many people give their time and offer EXPERT advice FREE to make s thread basically insulting it as a whole and then displaying the sand behaviour that the OP has bemoaned is(in my opinion) not on. Everyone may disagree with me but as I say it's only my opinion

And to those people, who truly are experts, who do offer good advice whether positive or negative I humbly salute them. But ... there does seem to be a trend of poo-pooing ideas and innovation without the slightest knowledge or experience in the field or industry and making bold statements without foundation in an aggressive and plain rude way.

I disagree with you about making a thread to insult. This thread was never meant to insult anyone, not even the individuals that make the forum poorer. It was designed to challenge thoughts and the way in which we communicate with each other.

EDIT: I am with you on the iPhone predictive text issue.

 

[bdw]

Sometimes you just have to get things off your chest.

Even if they are only your opinion.

.

 

[LTK82]

Even if they are only your opinion.

.

Indeed. None of my posts are anything but subjective opinion. That may not necessarily be the same as others ...

 

[LTK82]

Did you manage to get to my last paragraph before you donned your cape and hit the keyboard?

I am sorry for making the quote remark above. It was flippant, out of characer and out of keeping with the theme that I was trying to promote. In particular, I apologise to fisicx who the comment was aimed at.

 

[Banned]

Indeed. None of my posts are anything but subjective opinion. That may not necessarily be the same as others ...

But others that disagree with differing opinions are being rude or negative?

What are your qualifications to criticise business owners? What to do you do beyond twitter?

 

[LTK82]

But others that disagree with differing opinions are being rude or negative?

What are your qualifications to criticise business owners? What to do you do beyond twitter?

Not at all. I welcome differing opinions. Constructive criticism has certainly made me think twice before. I have made some good decisions based on the advice of others that didn't match my own previous thinking. However, for criticism to work it has to be constructive. My point was that often I see criticism that isn't constructive, productive and can be plainly rude.

Like everyone else I have no qualification or authority to criticise business owners in general. Everything that I type is a product of what I think and a forum seems as good a place as any to share opinions.

I have already answered your question about what I do beyond Twitter. Like many millions of people I Tweet. It is neither my business nor my source of income.

 

[Banned]

I have already answered your question about what I do beyond Twitter. Like many millions of people I Tweet. It is neither my business nor my source of income.

So you are not prepared to share what businesses you run then? Why?

OK, I'm anonymous but don't hide what I actually do business wise.

 

[LTK82]

So you are not prepared to share what businesses you run then? Why?

OK, I'm anonymous but don't hide what I actually do business wise.

Nor do I. I have answered this in a previous post. Why are you anonymous?

 

[Moneyman]

I do many things; I invest in new businesses. I advise other businesses on marketing strategy and I actively champion start-up businesses. How about you?

we do have a few trolls and even the odd antibusiness commie.

we are very rude to people who use forums as marketing tools and spammers.
Also we do get a bit fed up of some people who ask advice and have a secret plan that requires total secrecy and cant actually give any idea of what it is not even "product or service?".

i have invested £300k plus on guys from this forum. One or two excellent one or two nutters.
the biggest flaw is that people dont search for the answer before asking. It is deja vue all over again. clogs the pipes.

 

[fisicx]

I am sorry for making the quote remark above. It was flippant, out of characer and out of keeping with the theme that I was trying to promote. In particular, I apologise to fisicx who the comment was aimed at.

Thank you but no need to apologise. I've been told I'm a troll/numpty/idiot so many times on the forum I've lost count.

UKBF is full of threads where people have great ideas but no clue how to make it work. Most want everything for nothing and don't listen when contrary advice is given.

Many members have trialled and tested and learnt what works and what doesn't. Many have seen the same ideas go round and round again (SEO is dead threads appear each time google coughs). Everybody gets all excited, flame wars erupt and OWG spends his days pruning the forum instead of watching rugby. And Sirearl just winds everybody up.

It's magic!

 

[Banned]

Nor do I. I have answered this in a previous post. Why are you anonymous?

Sorry, missed that post. Found it now doesn't really say much about what your business is though. Self-professed guru? Marketeer? Either way with only a link to a twitter account, which only links to itself, does give the impression of someone who only talks the talk. And there are a lot of them on this forum.

Why am I anonymous - because there are a lot of fools on here who I would rather not know who I am, it's also a public forum

There are also a number of members who know exactly who I am, I'm happy to share my info' with people I feel I can trust and have an affinity with.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

We all have a forum that gives us information from a number of sources, some good some bad.

We have experts in employment law like Alan, good accountants, Experienced retailers and software and it geeks and I understand a few SEO experta we even have a Scottish knight who offers differing views not always mainstay

There is no other forum I have found that caters for such a wide audience

So warts and all its what we all make it, giving us all a knock now and again may be a good idea, but basically i think the forum members have it about right

 

[the Chocolate]

True there are people on here who do give great advice, then again some who post can be downright rude, aggressive etc etc
In my opinion it's society in general, a society going downhill rapid...

 

[Banned]

Having a look at the OP's twitter account, why do you have one way conversations with so many B list celebs'?

Genuine question by the way as I can't see the point?

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

Having a look at the OP's twitter account, why do you have one way conversations with so many B list celebs'?

Genuine question by the way as I can't see the point?

Perhaps he's a professional Stalker?

Joking apart though, I read as many threads as possible, even if something is of no interest to me (partially because I have trouble sleeping!) I've never really seen anything that could be deemed as being a negative nor rude comment towards people in the business areas to be honest... There are some questionable posts, but more so along the lines of "think before you ask" posts or "have you really got an idea here, or are you just going to be next big flop"

These posts, are hardly negative, but perhaps more informative and helpful, if people take them as being negative then that's their problem isn't it?

I mean, If I thought I had an absolutely fantastic idea, I posted and everyone totally agreed, and I went ahead and produced this fantastic idea at a severe cost on my cash flow, whom would I have to blame really? the people of UKBF or myself?

 

[bdw]

we even have a Scottish knight who offers differing views not always mainstay

I got all excited there for a minute then I realised you meant Sir Earl.

.

 

[Blood Lust]

Since joining UK Business Forums and reading the very many threads I have begun to realise that Britain is even further away from becoming a future-driven, technology powerhouse.

I have been struck by the way in which SME owners and managers seem to pay little regard to the future and to innovation, generally poo-pooing the ideas of others and are stuck so ardently in the present and occasionally even the past. Britain has, until recently in history, been at the forefront of design, innovation and engineering but there is scant evidence of it within the virtual walls of these forums. It is almost as if the industrial revolution never happened.

Far from being a supportive business community I have found the responses in some threads to be hostile, aggressive and to be blunt; dense. It is a shame that such a community cannot give constructive feedback and promote good advice rather than the current trend of spewing venom on new ideas, thoughts and discussions.

And before, dear Reader, you assume that I have been personally offended by comments or responses to my own threads and posts I must add that this little rant is not fuelled by any self-pity but by the way in which I can see others treated on this message board; with disrespect, aggression and a reasonable dollop of suspicion.

Britain: A Nation of Angry Shopkeepers. Discuss ...

I think the same.

I suspect many of the people here started up their businesses because they are narcissists and see owning a business as an extention to their egos.

They are unable to take criticism without behaving unprofessionally, they are unable to consider that they might be wrong about something when they are and when you put together arguments showing they dont know what they're talking about they become abusive and patronising.

I suspect the reason why they are small businesses and not large is down to their delightful personalities holding their enterprises back.

 

[maxine]

There's two completely different issues here I feel:

1) Forum members being a bit negative about innovation and poo-pooing ideas
2) General rudeness.

You can still think someone has a twit of an idea without being rude about it. Similarly you can be really polite and friendly and be narrow minded about innovation.

In the past I have tried to use this forum to sense-check innovative ideas and the feedback from members was pretty negative yet in the real world I had much better responses so actually I do agree a bit with issue number 1. Maybe it's because people are stuck in the day to day grind of running their own businesses? Don't know.

As for general rudeness ... just hit the report button I personally think that a lot of the trolls/snipers/flamers/people-who-were-just-born-rude leave the forum pretty quickly either on their own or with a little help from others

 

[Blood Lust]

There's two completely different issues here I feel:

1) Forum members being a bit negative about innovation and poo-pooing ideas
2) General rudeness.

You can still think someone has a twit of an idea without being rude about it. Similarly you can be really polite and friendly and be narrow minded about innovation.

In the past I have tried to use this forum to sense-check innovative ideas and the feedback from members was pretty negative yet in the real world I had much better responses so actually I do agree a bit with issue number 1. Maybe it's because people are stuck in the day to day grind of running their own businesses? Don't know.

As for general rudeness ... just hit the report button I personally think that a lot of the trolls/snipers/flamers/people-who-were-just-born-rude leave the forum pretty quickly either on their own or with a little help from others

Maybe because they have no lives so spend their days trolling these forums.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

quite possibly, but after 3 infractions they will have to troll elsewhere. The problem is that trolls ONLY want to argue and stir things up. If no-one argues with them or reacts, then they go away. If people simply report it, then after 3 strikes, they go away. Disruption is then minimal, and the forum is a better place.

 

I got all excited there for a minute then I realised you meant Sir Earl.

.

Got excited ,groveling twit.

I am a knight of the square table.:|

Earl

 

[FreelanceSoftwareDeveloper]

Another self-proclaimed PR guru comes and goes, completely failing to relate with the public forum

 

[MikeJ]

Since this isn't business related, why hasn't it been moved to "Time Out"?