What are your thoughts on cash?
- Thread starter Kerwin
- Start date
I saw this this morning.
Society's move to cashless payments may have had an unintended positive side effect, surgeons say - fewer children needing operations or procedures to remove swallowed coins.
www.bbc.co.uk
Society's move to cashless payments may have had an unintended positive side effect, surgeons say - fewer children needing operations or procedures to remove swallowed coins.
Big drop in child surgery for objects swallowed or stuck up nose
Cashless society may have helped, since coins were a common foreign object swallowed, surgeons say.
www.bbc.co.uk
BrilliantI saw this this morning.
Society's move to cashless payments may have had an unintended positive side effect, surgeons say - fewer children needing operations or procedures to remove swallowed coins.
Big drop in child surgery for objects swallowed or stuck up nose
Cashless society may have helped, since coins were a common foreign object swallowed, surgeons say.
The law of unintended consequences
Local notice in my chip shop:
"Cash is King
Please support local businesses by paying in cash. We save on Bank Charges and Card transaction fees meaning more of the money you spend helps our business - Thank you"
In some towns i notice actually a fair few similar requests to this where business Actively want cash over Card payments. I totally get why and I always support where I can.
It's tough for small businesses at the moment
"Cash is King
Please support local businesses by paying in cash. We save on Bank Charges and Card transaction fees meaning more of the money you spend helps our business - Thank you"
In some towns i notice actually a fair few similar requests to this where business Actively want cash over Card payments. I totally get why and I always support where I can.
It's tough for small businesses at the moment
Brilliant - although if everything went cashless it's a matter of time before some kid lodges a credit card somewhere they shouldn't and it needs surgically removingI saw this this morning.
Society's move to cashless payments may have had an unintended positive side effect, surgeons say - fewer children needing operations or procedures to remove swallowed coins.
Big drop in child surgery for objects swallowed or stuck up nose
Cashless society may have helped, since coins were a common foreign object swallowed, surgeons say.
Interestingly there was a wave of posts recently on LinkedIn suggesting (more than suggesting, actually) that any business favouring cash was doing it solely to evade tax.
I didn't support that either.
Could you tell us some more about these alternatives that have been around for "decades". The only ones I know are like gold which have been around for a lot more than decades, served as a store of value and have been used extensively to pay for stuff (though not generally at the individual level of Joe Bloggs buying a loaf of bread).
Really? Putin and Xi shared this with you? Is this going to be like the nuclear war currently going on in Ukraine? And Gaza?
The EU (and various governments) have been advising citizens to prepare for emergencies, partly because of geo-political risks and partly because of our increased, and increasing-by-the-day, reliance on a whole raft of outside services and facilities the failure of any one of which could cause civil unrest or simply lack of ability to lead normal lives. And partly because of risks like pandemics.
The advice they're giving is to hold some cash. You think they are all fools?
@Mark T Jones i totally agree. I can fully understand why some outside of that business could think oh bet they are on the fiddle trying to avoid tax and I'm sure the government would love it if society became cashless and they could trace every penny you spend. Can you imagine a future HMRC cooking up new ways to tax you even more.... "red alert here sir, guy in Peckham just brought fish & Chips, let's charge him a fat tax, brought a box of 6 condoms, let's charge him 50p a poke, oh hello, he's been in the casino for a flutter that's another 10%, oh here we go, 3 pints in his local and a packet of cigies, that's it let's pay him a visit" tongue in cheek maybe but that's the direction of travel going cashless.
Meanwhile, reality for the chip shop owner, oils gone up, stock up, electric and heating costs off the scale, council tax up, cost of staff up, price of food sold already at pain threshold, nowhere for them to go, anything to help margins and if saving a couple of percent on transaction fees can help that business I can't say as I blame them. It's bloody tough out there.
Meanwhile, reality for the chip shop owner, oils gone up, stock up, electric and heating costs off the scale, council tax up, cost of staff up, price of food sold already at pain threshold, nowhere for them to go, anything to help margins and if saving a couple of percent on transaction fees can help that business I can't say as I blame them. It's bloody tough out there.
As a related aside, I've just returned from a farm shop which had a big notice saying 'please pay cash if possible'
I offered them cash, but they asked for card because banking cash has become a nightmare
It isn't a simple scenario for sure!
On bank charges for handling cash. I sometimes see people coming in the bank, lodging bags of coins, but that is rare. They probably come from charity street collections and not businesses. Most businesses who take in a lot of cash will only take the £20 notes to the bank. Coins and lower denomination notes are kept in the till as float.
I wrote that just one short month ago when gold was at $2850 per ounce. I assumed that once it touched 3k it would take a breather and consolidate. Instead, it roared past 3k and is now at $3120. Something bad is happening to a currency near you!
When the US came off the gold standard in 71 and created (with the help of Saudi Arabia) the Pro-Dollar, gold was at $36 and you could. buy a house for £1,400. So clearly fiat currencies are failing at a steady rate - and that rate is picking up rapidly.
Central banks are not run by fools. They were stumbling from mistake to mistake, but recently there has been method in their madness. All this was happening without being planned. But it is all part of a five-step process.
- Set up a fiat currency including the Petro-Dollar so that US gilts become the bedrock of the world's monetary systems and then inflate the money supply steadily.
- Make it acceptable to rehypothecate assets (use multiple times as collateral for further lending) such as gold, shares, bonds, mortgages, etc. This creates a wonderful illusion of ownership for those with mortgages, shares, pensions, bonds, etc.
- Allow governments to run up huge debts. The US adds one trillion dollars to its $130 trillion debt mountain every year.
- Now forced by developments, accumulate as much physical gold as possible as collateral for a new currency and drive the price of gold so high that ordinary people cannot afford to buy any to protect themselves.
- With gold as your foundational asset, launch a CBDC and downgrade all existing fiat currencies and therefore all obligations such as pensions and all your government's debts.
I read a fascinating book recently called 'Vassal State', by an Angus someone. It's the authors first (and as yet only) book, and he has a very warm yet matter of fact tone which gets his information across succinctly. I'd highly recommend it.
The thrust of the book was upon just how much of Britian is owned or indirectly 'taxed' by America- yet with them refusing any and all taxes upon their companies. Many eye openers in there. For instance, take refuse collection- universally regarded as one of the most basic of 'public' services. Contracted out in large parts of the country to Veolia- owned by an American hedge fund!
Government IT contracts- time and time again, our government dismisses cheaper quote from a British company in order to pass the business to a large American firm from Silicon Valley.
Bringing it back to the push for digital only- you may have seen the signs in independant shops imploring people to spend cash due to the transaction fees they have to pay for card. Every time a payment is processed by Visa or Mastercard, or PayPal, that percentage goes straight to America, to firms such as BlackRock capital. Barely taxed, of course. My favourite chapter in the book is entitled 'You Cannot Milk An Eagle'- American firms use every trick in the book to avoid paying taxes in the local countries they operate in.
So yes, there are indeed large, powerful and firmly vested interests in the abolition of cash.
I'm glad to see someone gets it! (Vassal State is by Angus Hanton. Another must-read!)
BTW, in my posting above I stated that a house cost £1400 in 1970 - that should have read £3667. £1400 was the modal income in 1970. (I must learn to read my own notes more carefully!)
No it isn't.
- Natixis Investment Managers International SA: Holds 5.497% of the company.
- Caisse Des Dépôts & Consignations (Investment Management): Holds 5.044% of the company.
- Criteria Caixa SA: Holds 5.011% of the company.
- Amundi Asset Management SASU: Holds 3.282% of the company.
My apologies. I meant Viridor. An easy mistake to make, you will appreciate. Unnusual name beginning with V, both operating within the rubbish/recyling industries.
Viridor began as a British company which expanded greatly, and is now wholly owned by KKR- an American investment firm. Just one of many examples of how we allow the Americans to buy British companies left right and centre. The American's don't have anything like the same capital presence in other European countries, hence the book title, Vassal State.
The very same. They do appear to like a distressed asset, with public contracts (or rather in this case, a public captive market)
To be fair, they are smart cookies. We as a nation are the idiots for allowing it to happen.
Yeah, sure, only a war can take the internet and electricity down!
Today, large parts of Spain and Portugal have been affected by a power outage. Almost two entire countries brought to their knees.
Businesses can't operate as their tills are down.
Traffic is gridlocked; traffic lights are dead.
If you run out of fuel you can't refill as pumps don't work.
You can't pay for anything by card anyway as the internet isn't accessible.
Want to pay in cash? ATMs are not working.
Trains have been cancelled and people are stuck all over the country.
Medical facilities are at a standstill and urgent operations cancelled.
There are no flights in or out as air traffic control computers are off.
The only people who are managing to buy anything are those with cash
But of course that's Spain and Portugal. It can't happen in the UK, our governments are too efficient and would have solid contingency plans in place.
You are aware you can hand someone cash and they can put it somewhere else, other than the till, don't you ?Yeah, cash would be so useful in these circumstances
During power cuts, i've opened the till (and left it open) and continued to trade. It's not rocket science.
Some people who own shops might be better prepared than you think then.It's ok having cash if you can get the electric shutters on the shop up to let the customers in and are happy to let them walk around in darkness
Things don't have prices on these days. Everything is done by barcode. I'm not saying it's totally useless, but it's hardly going to get a train to run or get petrol out of the pump.
It was apparently Net Zero that caused it!
According to tomorrow's Telegraph, energy experts have blamed a heavy reliance on solar and wind farms in Spain for leaving the region’s power grid vulnerable to such a crisis.
A state of emergency was declared in Spain, and has seen a massive increase in renewable and low-carbon electricity generation in recent years. Two decades ago, more than 80% of its power came from burning fossil fuels such as coal and gas, as well as nuclear. Solar and wind provided less than 5%. By 2023 renewable energy provided 50.3% of power. On Monday, the proportion of renewables was far higher. Around noon, just before the crash, solar was providing about 53% of Spain’s electricity, with another 11% from wind, according to Red Eléctrica’s own data. Gas was providing only about 6%.
On Monday, Spain was forced to activate emergency measures by switching hydroelectric plants across the country back on and importing nuclear power through HV cables from France and Morocco. Traditional energy systems have mechanisms that allow them to keep running even if there is a shock, such as a surge or loss of power. Solar and wind do not have the same ability.
Electricity grids need so-called 'inertia' to help balance the network and maintain electricity supplies at a stable frequency. Inertia is created by generators with spinning parts – such as turbines running on gas, coal or hydropower, which wind and solar can never have.
According to tomorrow's Telegraph, energy experts have blamed a heavy reliance on solar and wind farms in Spain for leaving the region’s power grid vulnerable to such a crisis.
A state of emergency was declared in Spain, and has seen a massive increase in renewable and low-carbon electricity generation in recent years. Two decades ago, more than 80% of its power came from burning fossil fuels such as coal and gas, as well as nuclear. Solar and wind provided less than 5%. By 2023 renewable energy provided 50.3% of power. On Monday, the proportion of renewables was far higher. Around noon, just before the crash, solar was providing about 53% of Spain’s electricity, with another 11% from wind, according to Red Eléctrica’s own data. Gas was providing only about 6%.
On Monday, Spain was forced to activate emergency measures by switching hydroelectric plants across the country back on and importing nuclear power through HV cables from France and Morocco. Traditional energy systems have mechanisms that allow them to keep running even if there is a shock, such as a surge or loss of power. Solar and wind do not have the same ability.
Electricity grids need so-called 'inertia' to help balance the network and maintain electricity supplies at a stable frequency. Inertia is created by generators with spinning parts – such as turbines running on gas, coal or hydropower, which wind and solar can never have.
LOL. Don't bother. It's like a religion with that lot. They've decided they're the cool kids with their card and phone payments. Nothing can deter them from that world view. Not even logic.
In the meanwhile, some power has been restored and there are mile long queues at ATMs to withdraw ....
er,
to withdraw....
what?
I can't figure it out.
Whatever it is they are withdrawing, they're spending it with small businesses that were not stupid enough to have electric shutters without a manual operation option! There may be people that stupid here in this forum, but apparently they aren't that common in Spain.
That's just guesswork. Nobody knows yet what caused the blackout.
Rubbish. The problem isn't electronics, it's the way retail now does things. Most products no longer have the prices stamped on the box. If you take a basket of stuff to the tills the only way to get the total is scanning with barcode reader.
And cash isn't going to help you fill up the car (because the pumps don't work).
That's a pretty stupid argument given nobody is claiming that you can buy ANYTHING and EVERYTHING with cash when / if the power goes down.
That wasn’t my point. Even with cash in your pocket the number of places you can use it is quite small. It’s not my reliance on a credit card that is the issue, it’s the reliance of retail on electronics to do their business.
When civil war breaks out in the UK as seemingly predicted by many eminent people a few tenners in your back pocket might be useful. I just wonder when we will start thinking it is a good idea to have that shotgun close to hand when things start to get ugly.
Retail - well when the system goes down in our local tesco's (due to a software update) the staff just guessed the value of the food in your trolly and happy to take your cash.
fisicx will love this one, a recent concert I attended (for a band we both love) I was standing there minding my own business and wondering why the staff seemed to be running around like headless chickens - yep the payment system had gone down, they closed the shop, the bars and restaurant to all those paying by card.
Retail - well when the system goes down in our local tesco's (due to a software update) the staff just guessed the value of the food in your trolly and happy to take your cash.
fisicx will love this one, a recent concert I attended (for a band we both love) I was standing there minding my own business and wondering why the staff seemed to be running around like headless chickens - yep the payment system had gone down, they closed the shop, the bars and restaurant to all those paying by card.
Fair enough, but we're talking emergency situations, not normal shopping. The options available when you have cash, rather than just cards, are undeniably more. Including, according to @WaveJumper, in Tesco's!
The argument in this thread has been about whether such emergencies are ever likely to arise.
Spain and Portugal have shown us, yet again, that they indeed are.
But, yes, the reliance on electronics is too much.
When businesses go to market and buyers display interest, they want to see finances, sure, but they also ask a lot of other questions including about how well the business is prepared for a cyber attack, lack of power / internet, flooding and other disasters.
No disaster planning? Expect a lower price (or for buyers to walk away because, well, your business isn't that well prepared for when sh*t hit fan!).
It's not just individuals who'd be wise to plan for this stuff, but businesses as well.
In the military, it's called an IA - Immediate Action. Even in Civvy Street, one has an IA for every possible event, from power cuts to Mrs Millie Tooley in accounts getting pregnant again.
About ten years ago, we had a four-day blackout at Christmas when snow-laden trees fell on the lines. I telephoned the power company and complained that the neighbouring village still had power as I could see all the street lights. At that moment, I saw them being plunged into darkness. "Thank you!" I said. "Now that's what I call service!"
Sadly, the girl at the call centre did not pull them off the grid - it was just more trees! Damn!
But we had an IA. Woodburning stove, candles, torches that last 48 hrs and somewhere cold to put the food out of the fridge and the freezer. Pulled the massive battery out of the tractor for running laptops and radios. We had a very romantic and good Christmas!
I live on an island and every couple of years or so, one of the winter storms will knock power out ranging from a few streets to the whole island. The worst of these in the last 20 years, knocked the power out on the whole island for 6 days. Anyone with any sense has torches, candles, stoves tucked away in a cupboard. Same goes for cash.
This whole 'only TAX evaders want paid in cash' narrative that the media (and politicians) seem to be jumping on these days is just a conditioning process that has been seen so may times before in the UK, meaning that people incapable of thought will trot these lines out as fact because they've heard them on the news or in the daily mail
This whole 'only TAX evaders want paid in cash' narrative that the media (and politicians) seem to be jumping on these days is just a conditioning process that has been seen so may times before in the UK, meaning that people incapable of thought will trot these lines out as fact because they've heard them on the news or in the daily mail
No he's not. It's much more likely that he's paying tax on many many times the amount he takes in via haircuts.
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