web design client asking for money back

[ianhaney]

Hi @Anna Chandley yeah I have Professional Indemnity Insurance.

Will that help in favor if I notify them or is that just so they are aware?

 

[matlob]

I think it may be worth trying to clear up the ongoing hosting charges too and state that you will be stopping all future work / hosting. Not sure how best to state this as you have offered hosting for life.

 

[ianhaney]

I have not stated it will be for life, just said I would pay the hosting, I'll find the email with exactly what I put, one sec

Sorry my fault, I did state pay the vps hosting for a lifetime

 

[Xtm_Mike]

Sounds good to me @Newchodge - I take it, it's not worth mentioning the SEO payment that the client thinks Ian is liable for?

 

[Newchodge]

I think it may be worth trying to clear up the ongoing hosting charges too and state that you will be stopping all future work / hosting. Not sure how best to state this as you have offered hosting for life.

The hosting for life was part of the bid to resolve the issue. The letter states that attempts to resolve have been unacceptable and this offer is in full and final settlement - so the hosting ends.

 

[ianhaney]

yeah that's it, it was a bid to resolve the issue as thought it was a fair offer.

It is try he did not say he would accept it, he just said "thanks for that".

 

[Anna Chandley]

Hi @Anna Chandley yeah I have Professional Indemnity Insurance.

Will that help in favor if I notify them or is that just so they are aware?

The insurance company needs to be notified if you wish to make a claim on the policy. You need to read the detailed terms of your policy which will tell you the conditions under which the insurers must be notified.

 

[Newchodge]

Sounds good to me @Newchodge - I take it, it's not worth mentioning the SEO payment that the client thinks Ian is liable for?

I can't get Ian to explain whether he was contracted to do the SEO or if that was a separate contract with someone else. At the moment we're just trying to deal with the website.

I thin the client may be trying to get back the cost of SEO etc as it was useless because the site wasn't ready. For that to be a valid claim the client would have to show that the non-existent business was due to the website, not anything else. The site has been running properly for a month, and it appears the client has had few, if any, orders, so what is his loss?

 

[ianhaney]

No probs I'll get the tems of the policy that I have from the company @Anna Chandley

Yeah besides the product import issue where it was not adding new products, that was not preventing the use of the site as orders could be made and payments could be made for the past month, it was the decision of the client and the seo guy to pause the google pay per click ads while the site was being sorted which it has been fixed for the month. I have proof that I said to the seo guy the site is complete and the pay per click ads can be unpaused as the website is done but the client said it's not complete because there are missing product images and so he won't turn the pay per click ads on again and waste more money, that was the words of the client.

There is 163 missing product images in total so not a massive amount really but it's still time to find them on Google and add them to the products.

 

[Newchodge]

There is 163 missing product images in total so not a massive amount really but it's still time to find them on Google and add them to the products.

So when you told me the site was running properly, you told a fib?

 

[Paul Norman]

I have read this thread carefully, including a lot of sound advice, and particularly the assistance put out by Cyndy.

I am not without sympathy for Ian. His customer is being overly aggressive, and the amount demanded is unreasonable. In fact, the unreasonable nature of that demand may well be the undoing of the customer, and a big help to Ian.

But this is a case book in caution to us all.

1. Ian - and I mean this kindly - you have insufficient business knowledge to be running a business. This causing you a level of stress that no one should deliberately put themselves through.
2. Based on the information, you still have not got the site working properly. I suspect that making it do so is not more than a few hours work, but it does need focus. Once it really is working, you can make an offer to the customer of some level of recompense. Personally, I would be offering the £850.00 back.
3. Your business does not, itself, sound very solvent. Running so close to the wind suggests that you are again putting yourself at risk.
4. To us all - never, ever, take on a project that you do not understand. Even if you are going to outsource the work.
5. To buyers of ecommerce sites - this is what you get for £850.00 . Ian, through lack of knowledge, has hideously underquoted for the project.

The above sounds blunt. But this is a business forum, and I am sure we can handle blunt. I am somewhat on Ian's side here, but this situation was avoidable.

Now, the course of action needs to be swift, and decisive, to minimise loss. But if the site is still not working correctly, the clients case is strengthening by the minute.

 

[ianhaney]

it was running properly though and still is running correctly, orders can be made.

Missing product images is not preventing the functionality of the site and I did not know there was missing product images because the developer I got did all the importing of it recently so only know when that client sent that email this morning

 

[ianhaney]

and I did say to the client, the £850 was for the website design itself and to import the products on, not to add product images and even showed the client how to add product images

 

[Newchodge]

IAN

You are responsible for the site. Product images missing, if it is your responsibility to have product images on site, is your problem.

I'm sorry, I can't help further.

 

[ianhaney]

OK no problem but thank you for your help

 

[Xtm_Mike]

Whether the website is complete or not depends on the agreement. If you agreed to manage the initial batch import of products inc images, then you're responsible and therefore the site is not complete.

I would say missing images is detrimental to the site, why would someone purchase from a site where images are not shown? It looks shabby and unprofessional.

It's really hard to distinguish whether the site is complete or not at this point.

I take it the site has been online 2 months... first month where no orders could be placed due to payment processing issues, the second month it's working (feed and orders can be placed) but are missing product images?

 

[AllUpHere]

@ianhaney @Newchodge is going above and beyond trying to help you. She is probably one if the most capable people on this forum and you are wasting her more than generous assistance by not thinking before you type. Stop panicking, stop typing the first thing that comes into your head, and think.

Why don't you write down a log of what happened and when, what was said, and what was agreed. We would all then be in a much better position to help you. At the moment I feel like we are trying to comfort a crying child, whilst at the same time trying to coax out if it exactly what's wrong.

Edit, scrub that, I just saw the more recent reply above.

 

[ianhaney]

I agreed to importing the products but not adding product images in manually.

the site has been online since around 17th March but yeah no orders could be placed for the first month due to the payment processing issue and second month the feed was working, it was just not adding new products from the feed but yeah the feed was updating each hour and orders were able to be placed but yeah it just has missing product images

 

[Newchodge]

I'm sorry, let me explain.

I know less than nothing about websites or website design or SEO or PPC or any of those things.

I understand the law.

If I ask a question, in order to be able to give advice, I need the response to be full and frank, otherwise my advice is completely meaningless.

I find it frustrating to spend time on helping someone who has a problem, if they fail to tell me the extent of the problem, thereby rendering my advice meaningless.

Did anyone see Peston on Sunday 10 odd days ago, at the end of the programme he banged his head against the desk?

Anyone got a desk handy?

 

[ianhaney]

I will do but at current what is wrong is there is 163 missing product images but that's it

 

[STDFR33]

The email from your client comes across as a poor attempt to scare you. Although, it does appear to be working.

If your communication with your client is anything like your posts on this forum, then, despite them being a bit of a chancer, I do sympathise with them because it really is pulling teeth.

Ian, if you want help you need to be up front and clear with the facts. @Newchodge has kindly drafted you a letter, but then you have come back with different information. I know you are not intending to waste anyone's time, but you are doing.

If you need help, then please help everyone else by being clear and transparent, and without the information coming in dribs and drabs.

 

[ianhaney]

The issues were all below

1) I did the site but payment processor was not working for a month, the checkout page just kept trying to load - it was like that for a month (this was because the payment processor guys told me to use the direct version instead of the hosted version) the direct version was not the right one to use on the website, I was told it should of been the hosted version to use.

2) That payment processor issue was fixed in mid-April

3) The issue then was the import feed was not adding new images to the site, stock figures were not updating instantly, it was taking about 30 mins to update stock figures. I just thought this was due to the large amount of products as though 4202 products was a lot to me

4) Images I was adding in manually was being overwriting when the import was running every hour - I was doing the manual adding of images for some products on the main category the client wanted to focus on selling was a good will gesture. (note: the import now runs every 5 mins and is running and working fine with no issues now)

5) The import issue in points 3 and 4 was fixed 4/5 days ago as that was when I got a developer to fix the total import pro module issues, he has confirmed there was issues with total import pro module with the image overwriting issue and the cron file itself that makes it run every 5 mins (I have proof from the developer on skype that says there were issues in the module that had to be fixed).

6) the only issue is now 163 images are missing from product images because they are not on the csv file of the supplier so these need to be found on Google images and then added to the website manually.

 

[ianhaney]

Hi @The Accountancy Lab

Sorry think it is because I am panicking and worried so much, I definitely do not intent to waste anyone's time and have really appreciated all the help and advice I have got

 

[AllUpHere]

Hi @The Accountancy Lab

Sorry think it is because I am panicking and worried so much, I definitely do not intent to waste anyone's time and have really appreciated all the help and advice I have got

That's what the thanks button is for.

 

[Newchodge]

The issues were all below

1) I did the site but payment processor was not working for a month, the checkout page just kept trying to load - it was like that for a month (this was because the payment processor guys told me to use the direct version instead of the hosted version) the direct version was not the right one to use on the website, I was told it should of been the hosted version to use.

2) That payment processor issue was fixed in mid-April

3) The issue then was the import feed was not adding new images to the site, stock figures were not updating instantly, it was taking about 30 mins to update stock figures. I just thought this was due to the large amount of products as though 4202 products was a lot to me

4) Images I was adding in manually was being overwriting when the import was running every hour - I was doing the manual adding of images for some products on the main category the client wanted to focus on selling was a good will gesture. (note: the import now runs every 5 mins and is running and working fine with no issues now)

5) The import issue in points 3 and 4 was fixed 4/5 days ago as that was when I got a developer to fix the total import pro module issues, he has confirmed there was issues with total import pro module with the image overwriting issue and the cron file itself that makes it run every 5 mins (I have proof from the developer on skype that says there were issues in the module that had to be fixed).

6) the only issue is now 163 images are missing from product images because they are not on the csv file of the supplier so these need to be found on Google images and then added to the website manually.

OK. Let me try one last time

You had a contract to do something for your client (not in writing)

The contract started some time in March.

Has the contract been fulfilled? That means, have you done EVERYTHING that you were required to do by the contract?

WHEN was the contract fulfilled?

OR when will the contract be fulfilled?

It is now June. You stated that you told the client the contract would be fulfilled within a week, so mid to end March?

 

[ianhaney]

OK will def use that

My wife has agreed to add the missing 163 product images to save me from more hassle from the client so once that is done, I guess he just claims against me for money he has lost.

This is where I get worried and think of the amount he is saying he is going to take me to small claims court for but do feel better that he can't go more than £10,000 through small claims court, but he can still claim the £1600 from me through small claims court but that includes the SEO, PPC and Facebook advertising money as he feels that is wasted money.

 

[Newchodge]

Good luck.

 

[ianhaney]

@Newchodge

1) No written contract was in place but was contracted to do the website design and import products feed

2) The contract/project started on the 10th March

3) I thought I had to be honest as far as I was aware the import feed was working until the client noticed it was not adding new products to the site and stock figures was taking a short time to update

4) The contract was fulfilled I would say 4/5 days ago besides the missing product images(my wife has agreed to add these for me)

5) That's correct I did say would be a week that it would be fulfilled as did think it would be a straight forward import of the feed, at the time I did not know there was fixes that needed to be done in the total import pro module and also did not know that there was missing product images in the feed.

Can I just say, the client messaged me 1 day after the project started saying is it done yet even though I did a week. It started on the 10th March which was the Friday and messaged me Saturday saying is it done

 

[ianhaney]

By the good luck, does that mean I am pretty much knackered?

 

[ianhaney]

if I am knackered, what is the worse case scenario, can he claim the £16,854 against me or just the website design cost of £850? or can he claim the SEO, PPC and Facebook advertising as well plus the solicitor costs of £960

 

[Newchodge]

if I am knackered, what is the worse case scenario, can he claim the £16,854 against me or just the website design cost of £850? or can he claim the SEO, PPC and Facebook advertising as well plus the solicitor costs of £960

I don't know.

 

[ianhaney]

Can I just say in my defense we are trying to find the missing product images on Google and it only came with one result in Google for a website and that website don't even have the product image on their site so my wife clicked on the images tab within Google and it is bringing up computer towers where as it should be a Almond kettle and toaster set.

So what can I do if I can't get the image from Google, to me there don't seem anything I can do

 

[Newchodge]

I haven't the faintest idea.

You agreed toi do this work. If you don't kinow how to do it youahve a problem.

 

[ianhaney]

how I was to know though that the products have missing images and the images are not on Google, sorry just don't see how that is fair if I can't get the product image, hopefully will only be a few if that and can find most of them on Google

I know how to find the images but if the images are not on Google, what can I do

 

[STDFR33]

Can I just say in my defense we are trying to find the missing product images on Google and it only came with one result in Google for a website and that website don't even have the product image on their site so my wife clicked on the images tab within Google and it is bringing up computer towers where as it should be a Almond kettle and toaster set.

So what can I do if I can't get the image from Google, to me there don't seem anything I can do

I'm no expert, but isn't that copyright infringement?

 

[AllUpHere]

Are you sure you are allowed to take images from sites on Google and use them?

 

[ianhaney]

Yeah but that is where some other images came from when the SEO guy found some for me

 

[ianhaney]

I thought maybe if the same image is on a few different sites it might be ok but guess the website would have a copyright notice

 

[AllUpHere]

Ian, you have no idea what you are doing. As the saying goes 'when you have dug yourself into a hole, stop digging'.

 

[STDFR33]

I thought maybe if the same image is on a few different sites it might be ok but guess the website would have a copyright notice

If a number of people rob Tesco at gunpoint, it doesn't make robbing Tesco at gunpoint legal.