Unfair dismissal and what I can do about it

[ads1988]

Hi,
ive been recently working as a temp through an agency for a company since december doing various shifts such as 4am to 9am, then increased to 1am to 9am and finnally settled at 2am to 9am+ (until finished)

However, usually we have had breaks but recently as its 'to busy' we have been refused a break.
The first time this happen I tried to talk to a manager about it, and was told 'your agency staff you dont get a break'
Because of this, the next day my times were changed that I had been into work (crossed off and rewritten)
I spoke to the main manager about this and recorded the entire converation which included many quotes from him including:
ME: Its illegal, we have to have a break.
MANAGER: We dont give breaks here, if you dont like it find somewhere else to work.
ME: You cant just change our hours when you know we were working, not just because of the money but if there is a fire we could still be in the building (he changed them while we were there)
MANAGER: Im a manager, your agency staff, I can do what I like, If I want to say you didnt work then I will and theres nothing you can do about it.

I managed to convince him to change the hours back, but still we were refused breaks.
I took them anyway and organised a alternating break system with the other agency staff (after 6 hours, 1 person would have a 20min break at a time)
Our deputy manager agreed to this and let it slide as he was totally on our side in the situation.

Which resulted in him being transferred to another work site.

Then the new manager came in and for a few weeks everything wasnt too bad.
Then it got really busy and we were made to work from 1am to 9am, no break.

Again I questioned this, and was told the same as the first time.
Again I organised a break system, as other agency staff didnt want to speak up directly as like myself they really need the work.

Then came a trully brutal night.

12am start, 9am finished no break.

1 agency staff walked out after hurting his back
another hurt his back but choose to stay

I myself injured my shoulder as my job is to lug around heavy cages of parcels

a friend of mine was in so much pain he thought he had broken a rib, turns out he didnt but that wasnt the point.

So last night they brought in one of the top guys, some kind of regional manager to oversee us. Word got around anyone taking breaks was going to be sacked on the spot, but he refused to 'lower' himself by talking to agency staff

Of course at 8am (after 6 hours of working) I went to my manager and casually said:
'we are going to start taking our alternating 20min breaks now'
MANAGER: no breaks today
ME: you cant do that, its illegal
MANAGER: if you want a break you dont do it at 8am, you take it at another time, if you take a break you wont be in anymore.
ME: so your going to sack me for taking a break
MANAGER: im not saying that, you just wont be coming back
ME: Same difference, im taking a break.

He said nothing

At the end of the night I spoke to him and his manager (not the regional manager)
They said its not their responsibility to give us breaks, if we want one we talk to our agency about it.

So now i recieved a call from my agency that the company dont 'need' me for work anymore

Also I forgot to mention, my friend had 9 hours cut from his wages last week and I myself lost 2.5 hours (I checked the sheet for last week, our sign in names and our hours are next to each other and could not have accidently been sent wrong to the agency as all agency staff did the same hours) all because I asked for a break last week.

I have no doubt I will lose a considerable amount from my final wage packet from them.

So, what can I do? I have a recording of the first time this happen which is very clear, and a recording of the conversation where I was told its the agency who organise our breaks, but there isnt much in the second conversation thats incriminating.
Obviously other agency staff will back me up and I know of 2 full time ordinary workers who say its been like this for years and if you speak up they change the books so you get paid less as a punishement.

MY questions though

What can I do??
How would taking them to court benefit me? Would the managers involved lose their jobs?
Could I claim conpensation from this?

I literraly have no job and there is nothing else at the moment and I have bills to pay

If people wish I will try and post a voice recording of the first conversation if someone tells me how to do it

 

[decworld]

Get over it and go work somewhere else.

 

[Richie N]

Sorry it's been a long day and your post gave me a bit of a headache reading it.
Speak to your agency about other work or find another agency, there are plenty out there looking for temps.

 

[ads1988]

Your saying get over it and allow people to be treated like slaves?
im not going to sit back and watch people do themselves an injury, with no breaks like this and with fork trucks and the summer its only a matter of time before a serious injury occurrs or someone passes out or worst case someone on a fork truck who has been forced to work ILLEGALLY runs someone down as they are too tired to see them in time.


The company knows that we have to stay there as we have no other jobs to go to.
These people have broken a number of laws and breached countless rights for their workers.

Im obviously looking for more work, I just want to know how the process of reporting the company is and what will actually happen should it get taken to court

 

[ads1988]

Its illegal to say if you have a break which you are entitled to by law, your sacked

And its also illegal to not pay people for the work they have done, and manipulate the hours you have worked as punishment for asking for a break which they have to give you

Its closer to slavery than not being slavery, besides I didnt leave, I was basically sacked for something i have to have by law, so they are in the wrong and have unfairly dismissed me

 

[ads1988]

I havent left, I have been sacked.

I have already reported to company, I just wanted to know exactly what (if anything) will happen, like will sueing them actually have any benefits apart from wasting money in court?
Will reporting them alone be enough to trigger an investigation? If they are found to be in the wrong, what happens to the managers involved? Do they just get a slap on the wrist? Or would they lose their job completly?

These are the questions I was looking for answers to, thanks

 

[decworld]

ads1988,

your main error is coming on a forum for business owners moaning about employers.

very little sympathy here !

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

Assuming that the OP is being 100% honest with us, this is a terrible story - I'm surprised how little empathy is being shown here!
I know nothing about employment law so can't really offer advice, but assuming that the employment agency who placed you in the company is properly regulated, I would have thought that they have a duty of care to you and all other temps they supply to this particular employer.
As a temp, I don't think you can claim unfair/constructive dismissal - you are not under contract to them and the company owes you no explanation as to why your services are no longer required no matter how unfair it is that they have let you go.
I would, however, have thought that the way they have behaved is at best unprofessional - go and see the manager at your temp agency to let them know what is going on there, maybe see if the CAB can offer you any advice.
Sounds like you're best off out of this job - good luck with finding something else with a company that will hopefully treat you like a human being.

 

[Big Pete]

Sounds to me like a proper Company .. i like there style..

In a nutshell if you do NOT Like having to work for what your paid to do , then do NOT work there , simple choice .

If only more Companies had some balls like that one, maybe just maybe the Uk would`nt be on its knees ..

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

will sueing them actually have any benefits apart from wasting money in court?
Will reporting them alone be enough to trigger an investigation? If they are found to be in the wrong, what happens to the managers involved? Do they just get a slap on the wrist? Or would they lose their job completly?

These are the questions I was looking for answers to, thanks

What would be the benefits in your mind?

Not clear who you've reported the company too already, but the HSE don't have too many resources to check an employee's break is being taken after 6 hours work, and I suspect wouldn't be interested in this anyway.


There could be an internal investigation, but most wouldn't know about that.

If this found any managers to be in the wrong, the decisions on what action to take would be for the employer to make - it's a internal & confidential disciplinary process - and reporting them won't influence that.



Karl Limpert

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Karl

How would he stand using discrimination against one type of worker "agency"

I can understand some of the comments butcannot condone bad management in any company, there is a right way and a wrong way, from what the op states if true then its bad management and the OP deserves help

Wonder what school of management decworld went to and how many long term employees he has

 

[Richie N]

I havent left, I have been sacked.

I have already reported to company, I just wanted to know exactly what (if anything) will happen, like will sueing them actually have any benefits apart from wasting money in court?
Will reporting them alone be enough to trigger an investigation? If they are found to be in the wrong, what happens to the managers involved? Do they just get a slap on the wrist? Or would they lose their job completly?

These are the questions I was looking for answers to, thanks

You haven't been "sacked", your assignment has been terminated.
An agency or client has the right to terminate the assignment without reason.
I don't think you have a claim for unfair dismissal at all.
If you want to raise a complaint about the company then put it in writing to the agency Branch Manager and/or the Client's Director.

It's not good if they treat staff in that way but you've now gone, put your focus and efforts in to finding work, forget them and move on.

 

[Richie N]

Let the agency do the investigation if they still have staff working there. That's their job, but as far as suing anyone goes, it's a waste of time and money, it won't achieve anything.
Any grievances you have with clients or agencies need to be addressed to them to resolve.

Seriously, move on, focus on getting work and put your time into that

 

[ads1988]

The people I have reported them to is watchdog, who do investigate a number of things on TV from rouge traders to employers that mistreat workers


And actually ive looked up the legal side of thing, agency workers have all the same rights as normal workers after 12 weeks of employment, ive been there since december.
And looking under unfair dismissal, if they decide to terminate employment and bring in another worker, it is still a dismissal.

Yes they have the right to terminate my employment at any time, but they can not work us without a break. It would be very easy for someone to be seriously injured, pass out due to the heat in the summer.
Agency workers have all the rights of ordinary workers, dont believe me then look it up.

This doesnt give them the right to treat people like this, if someone were to fall down from exaustion and fall in the way of a fork truck, a health and safety officer would be called in to investigate why (someone impartial to the company)
They would look at the cameras and see that no one is getting their breaks, they would shut the place down

 

Get over it and go work somewhere else.

"I literraly have no job and there is nothing else at the moment and I have bills to pay"

Easy to say.

 

[Richie N]

The people I have reported them to is watchdog, who do investigate a number of things on TV from rouge traders to employers that mistreat workers


And actually ive looked up the legal side of thing, agency workers have all the same rights as normal workers after 12 weeks of employment, ive been there since december.
And looking under unfair dismissal, if they decide to terminate employment and bring in another worker, it is still a dismissal.

Yes they have the right to terminate my employment at any time, but they can not work us without a break. It would be very easy for someone to be seriously injured, pass out due to the heat in the summer.
Agency workers have all the rights of ordinary workers, dont believe me then look it up.

This doesnt give them the right to treat people like this, if someone were to fall down from exaustion and fall in the way of a fork truck, a health and safety officer would be called in to investigate why (someone impartial to the company)
They would look at the cameras and see that no one is getting their breaks, they would shut the place down

Your assignment can still be terminated, you are a temporary worker.

The agency should address the health and safety issues with their client, if they are aware of them then let them take care of the matter.

Again the breaks issue should be addressed to the Line Manager of the client or the agency.

 

[ads1988]

I did address the issue to the line manager, he told me if I take a break ever, i wont be working there any more.

 

[kulture]

I am staggered at the callous response on this thread.

The working times regulations clearly state that a 20 min break is mandatory if you work 6 or more hours.

Further the agency has a duty of care to ensure that their temps are not abused. Nor put in harms way regarding heavy lifting etc.

Your only contract is with the agency, they are the only ones you can sue.

 

[Retired_Accountant]

There are some disgusting comments here by "employers" who really should not be allowed to remain in business.

Agency workers now have statutory rights. It appears that in this case the employer breached them, and therefore committed an offence.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/employm.../agencyworkersandemploymentagencies/dg_173252

The Department for Busines Inovation & Skills has a coimplaints scheme which you can use.

As for those who have written that an employer can deny breaks, deduct wages, etcetera - shame on you.

 

[kate1]

I must admit, I am truly staggered by the responses to the OP. I certainly wouldn't like to work those hours with no breaks, I thought it was the law every four hours to have a 15 min break. Good luck OP hope you get somewhere with this

 

[Rhyl Lightworks]

Who is your employer - the company or the temp. agency? The actual employer is who you should be complaining to.

Are you in a union? If so and they feel you have a case, they will take up the grievance on your behalf and pay for the cost. If not, don't bother.

As far as unions are concerned, they were formed to fight the exploitation of labour more than a century ago. They were very necessary at the time, but I feel the pendulum has swung too far and they now have powers against eployers that are unjustified, but this is the way it is and it doesn't stop you using them.

Barrie

 

[The Resolver]

A very relevant issue. The political climate is moving towards reducing employee rights as a recession weapon , on the basis that making it easier to sack employees would encourage employers to take on more employees. But this should not be allowed to creep into break time. That is not only not good for the employee's health its not good for business. Employees would drop their loyalty and determine to cause damage in one form or another. It probably also prejudices their insurance since if an accident occurs the insurer could claim a breach by the employers (it will be a condition, explicit or implied from other terms, that they follow the law on working time.)

Thousands of ex-coalminers have had their retirement ruined by crippling emphysema because the managers allowed dust detection equipment to not function, something some unions seemed to turn a blind eye to in order to avoid the stoppages that would have compromised the productivity levels required to deliver to their members the increases in wage levels expected of unions (so it was not all about bad mine bosses).

 

[freightpro]

Hi Ads 1988

I employ night staff and the law is no different for temp or perm staff and that is 8 hours work in any 24 hour period (my staff do 9 with an hours break that is taken as 3 x 20 mins, 4 x 15 mins or 1 x 60 mins depending on the pressure of work)

As a newbie I cannot post a link but if you add the at sign etc. to this link you can go to the UKGOV site

worldwideweb direct.gov.en/employment/employees/workinghoursandtimeoff/dg_100285

There is a link on the page to rest breaks which basically says what you have which is 20 minutes after 6 hours.

My take on this is that the agency has allowed this to happen and under the new regulations from October last year they should be offering you equal terms from day 1 that the employer offers (although I must admit I do not agree with all of the new rules.

HTH

Steve

 

[ads1988]

Yes thank you for that link and the other help, I was paid £50 short today, which is the third time this has happened.
So I went into the reception there (not trespassing before im accussed of it, its a public area for customers)
I got a member of staff there to photocopy the sheet that has been signed by the manager, and lo and behold the hours on the sheet say I did more than I was paid for (the agency only go on what the company tells them for the hours I have worked)
This is the third time this has happened, and the worst amount of wages lost.

First time was when I first mentioned about having a break some months ago and lost 5 hours, I lost 2.5hours last week and now ive lost a whole load more (wont know the exact amount until I get a wage slip through the )

I can prove I was there, as the cameras will show what time I worked until.
Seeing as all the hours are together for agency and we all did the same hours, yet I got paid less and no one else did, I think a court are going to see they 'punished' me for standing up to them.

But anyway, they have been reported now and ive been told to expect a phone call back today or next week and should have all my evidence and wage slips handy at all times to tell them over the phone as well as an email address to send the recordings too.

I just need to work out how much it will cost to get a solicitor's letter sent to them requesting the sheets and camera footage (I have photocopys in case they change them as they were unchanged, just the agency got told less hours than I worked, plus they have signed to say I did all my hours so they have no excuse to underpay me)

If they refuse, I wont even need to go to court as I have proof anyway, I just want this matter resolved so I can actually get what im owed ,ive still got one weeks wages to come, which I gurrentee will be deducted massively

If they accept to give out the camera footage, they will be putting themselves in it as it will show no breaks, constant abuse and manipulation of the hours.

Best thing they can do is phone my agency and say they made a mistake with the wages, which they wont as they dont want to have to pay me

 

[kate1]

Sounds like a shocking firm to work for.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I doubt the solicitors letter will do any good and also that you can demand video coverage, that would be for a court action to demand

You must go through the agency, they have the right to ask for discrepancies to be investigated and corrected you do not as you have no contract with the company just with your agency

Obviously any other supporting evidence you can get from fellow workers would help prove your claim

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Whilst the company are clearly in the wrong I would imagine an agency worker shouting the odds would make many managers dig their heels in.

 

[Salpots]

I'm disgusted at what I've witnessed on this thread. Granted, the complaint should initially go to the agency, but how dare any human being (employer) treat another person in this callous fashion?

Why should anyone on here - (you despicable little internet warriors) say that the OP more or less deserved what they got after reading that people were genuinely refused a break after a full work-shift?

You are bullies - not employers standing up for themselves, just bullies.

For the original responders to this thread who told the OP what they did - shame on you, I actually hope that one day if you're in, or someone close to you is in the same predicament and that you get a feeling of what this must be like.

Agency work is very hard, and often thankless with each employee afforded very few or little in the way of rights of employ. To be forced to work in these conditions because you need a job goes against everything the UK stands for and I think the brutal ones who posted definitely do need a reality check of some sort!

I was going to subscribe, but I am reconsidering paying money to a site which obviously condones behaviour of this description for yearly subscription. I have no wish to be part of something like this.

OP, I'm sorry I know too little about the legislation to help you, but you're definitely in the right to be standing up to this. Good luck.

 

[internetspaceships]

Firstly to answer the OP. As has been said before, you haven't been dismissed you just aren't wanted back on that site any more.

From what you have written I don't think that the management on that site are viewing agency staff in a particularly good light however apart from telling a few people I don't see what more you can do. I don't treat staff like that I genuinely don't feel that taking up the crusade here will do you any good, certainly if it detracts from you getting onto another site and earning the money to pay your bills.

I think people have been too hard in their approach on this thread from BOTH sides. Wishing ill on somebody because you don't like what they have typed is seriously lame.

 

[Salpots]

Wishing ill on somebody because you don't like what they have typed is seriously lame.

But it's okay for someone to completely disregard another human being and their feelings and rights by publicly posting about how unimportant their concern is, right?.

Yeah, I still hope they get a taste of what they're doling out to unsuspecting individuals who innocently come here for advice.

 

[internetspaceships]

Yeah, I still hope they get a taste of what they're doling out to unsuspecting individuals who innocently come here for advice.

I hadn't actually read your post whilst i was typing but that's fine, you be like that, but you won't see any benefit from it.

 

[Salpots]

I hadn't actually read your post whilst i was typing but that's fine, you be like that, but you won't see any benefit from it.

Pardon my misdemeanour. I pride myself on being polite and wrongly assumed you were discussing my post with yours landing after mine the way it did, and I was wrong, I'm sorry.

I'm not afraid to apologise publicly. I wonder if those people who spoke so rashly to the OP in the beginning will bother doing the same.

 

[internetspaceships]

No harm done Salpot. You're correct too in that people aren't likely to fall over themselves to apologise for getting it wrong.