The 'Something For Nothing' Brigade...

[beasty]

When i sell online

I get asked by email for discounts, i never give them unless it is someone I know, what I do is charge full price but offer a small item free, this is a better way to go as they then get to show the free item to people saying they got it when they bought x

Physical evidence of the purchase, something that costs me 3.50 but has an rrp of 16gbp means not giving 18 quid of something (5 percent off the bigger item).. it works for me and it is easy to say ok have 2 of these things for free!

 

[leemason]

It doesn't just happen in retail. We build IP Telephony systems for customers. They are based on Open Source "Free" software. Because the software is free some people seem to think that we should not be charging for our services either. One customer actually said recently that we "ought to reconsider charging for installation" whatever that means?!?!?

So we are supposed to send someone to drive to their site (about a 200 mile round trip), install the system, install and setup all of the handsets, show their users how to use the new phones, training their admin person for basic admin tasks, and the do whatever else crops up that they forgot to tell us able. All for nothing!!!!

 

[scm5436]

It doesn't just happen in retail. We build IP Telephony systems for customers. They are based on Open Source "Free" software. Because the software is free some people seem to think that we should not be charging for our services either. One customer actually said recently that we "ought to reconsider charging for installation" whatever that means?!?!?

So we are supposed to send someone to drive to their site (about a 200 mile round trip), install the system, install and setup all of the handsets, show their users how to use the new phones, training their admin person for basic admin tasks, and the do whatever else crops up that they forgot to tell us able. All for nothing!!!!

Just tell them "ok, here's our free service: we'll send the hardware by courier, send you a link to the free software, and here's a list of the things you'll need to do to get it working: download the software, unpack and put together the hardware, install & configure the software, install and setup all of the handsets, show your users how to use the new phones, training your admin person for basic admin tasks...etc". When they see how much work is involved and figure out they would no staff on site with the vaguest clue on how to do any of that, then they will likely reconsider the installation charge!

Perhaps, if you don't do this already, you should expand the installation charge to a full list exactly what it entails?

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

If it were me

I would have gift wrapping paper saying WRAPPED FOR FREE @ x store if the person did not want to pay

It would be no problem, let me get the other (crappy) paper out.. ahahah


I like to haggle, negotiate whatever you call it and consider that how much you paid and what your overheads are really are not my concern, my concern is that thing i want and how much I think i can knock you down. It is a harmless process and retailers without question do themselves more damage than good by being dicks with their replies (It is of course all in the delivery) i could not run a B and M shop as I would take too much pleasure in firing of lines at people.

It is cheaper down the road, sir petrol is 11p a litre in Egypt but you pay 1.40 in Tesco, please tell Tesco you can get fuel for 11p a litre at the other place

I would HATE to work in a shop, but christ if you do and you have chosen to do so what the hell did you expect?

Very confusing post here really... extremely contradictory!


In one breath you're saying you like to haggle - in another breath you're saying that folk are dicks for giving a sarcastic reply - (Seriously, you're a dick trying to haggle prices and for not liking the reply) - then you come out with an analogy about Tesco's?

Are you suggesting that you walk into Tesco's or other supermarket stores and you tell them at the till what you want to pay?

If that's so, then I very much doubt that you'd get anywhere at all with the purchase, so seriously... what makes you think you can walk into an independent store and treat them with disrespect by asking to pay less?

Seriously the only person here being the dick is you.

Haggling and asking to pay cheaper prices should only be used on Car-boots and market stalls - I would never, I repeat never be so damn cheeky to expect someone running a business to give me any better prices than they're already marked up at simply because they're an independent store.

 

[beasty]

Very confusing post here really... extremely contradictory!


In one breath you're saying you like to haggle - in another breath you're saying that folk are dicks for giving a sarcastic reply - (Seriously, you're a dick trying to haggle prices and for not liking the reply) - then you come out with an analogy about Tesco's?

Are you suggesting that you walk into Tesco's or other supermarket stores and you tell them at the till what you want to pay?

If that's so, then I very much doubt that you'd get anywhere at all with the purchase, so seriously... what makes you think you can walk into an independent store and treat them with disrespect by asking to pay less?

Seriously the only person here being the dick is you.

Haggling and asking to pay cheaper prices should only be used on Car-boots and market stalls - I would never, I repeat never be so damn cheeky to expect someone running a business to give me any better prices than they're already marked up at simply because they're an independent store.

I am a dick?

banned!

There are two sides to the game and I was not contradictory I was posting from both sides.

I like to haggle... but IF I HAD A STORE (WHICH I ALREADY SAID I NEVER WOULD AS I WOULD BE TOO SARCASTIC) i would then offer the Tesco analogy!

I DO NOT HAVE A STORE and WOULD NOT as it is not me..

IF YOU have CHOSEN to have a store, be polite in your reply..I would not be but then I do not have a shop!


The point is that if someone haggles, you simply have to say the price is what it is, you do not have to be a ****** about the reply (I would be but at least know this and would not work in a shop)

If i look for a deal I do not expect the shopkeeper to be a wise ass, I expec them to say NO or better yet, sure!

Someone has a store wants a sale you have cash the price is what you agree not what the label says, the reason i would not do it in tescos is because no one has the type of authority to allow this, in a small store they do.

Just because you would not do it does not mean it is wrong, asking a question where an EASY no is available is a harmless act and should not open up the customer to a sarcastic shopkeeper (Like I WOULD be!)

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

We get this quite regulary and I find it amusing that people want to purchase a good quality safe, but they're not happy about paying a higher price than they can get off the internet!

The best one we've ever had was a customer came in asking for details on a safe, he wanted X - I gave him all the details he asked for including the price on the safe which is advertised online by the manufacturer + installation costs.

He went away very happy! Very Happy indeed! Two days later he rang me up and told me the following.

Thank you for your services, most appreciated but I've gone online and found the same safe cheaper with delivery!

I asked him if the delivery firm were also going to install for him, as of which he didn't have a clue what I meant.

Three days later, he rang me up again asking for me to go and install his safe for him, as he couldn't get it through the door as it was too heavy.

The safe he bought at the same price online. Delivery was £125 + VAT Plus my installation cost of £125 + VAT

If he'd had bought the safe from me, there would only have been a charge of £125 + VAT for delivery AND installation!

Some people honestly think that they're getting a much better deal, but in the end there's always a reason to go with someone who can deliver a service and not just the product.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

By giving a reply to a customer that thinks that they can get one over an independent retailer doesn't make them a dick TBH

As you've stated yourself your concern is what you want, nothing else... well tough to be you... All a retailer wants is a bit of respect - as I said haggling should be left for car boots and market stalls they're the ones that expect it not someone running a business.

I am a dick?

banned!

Oh so wait... you call out all retailers for being dicks with their replies, then because someone replies to you you're calling for a ban?

Grow up!

You can't call retailers dicks for their replies and not expect a reply with the same genre!

 

[beasty]

Calling a group of shopkeepers who are sarcastic to their customers dicks is not the same as saying YOU ARE A DICK

dick

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

I'm a shopkeeper, I am sarcastic to people that think they can get me down on prices, therefore by your categorisation I am a dick... hey guess what... you're a dick, big deal... get a grip and stop being such a knobrot.

 

[Nuno]

Careful Haunted he'll sue you for libel (http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=310467), unless of course you have truth as a defence.

 

[warnie]

Should start another thread call "the charity brigade" !. For all those good willed people who do a great job raising money for some good causes, but seem to think that just because we have a shop we are loaded and should be giving stock away to support their cause.

What people don't seem to realise, is that some shop keepers don't even earn minimum wage at certain stages of their business and anything donated can affect what they pick up at the end of the week. We just work for ourselves like a builder would or a plasterer. Yet I bet they don't get asked to donate part of their wages to good cause 3-4 times a week in our case.

Some people get so rude about it, yet I bet if I knocked on their door and asked them to donate 3-4 times a week out of their probably much higher salary then mine, then they may get a bit miffed as well!

I've just had one in raising money for someone who needs an operation. I do feel for them, but the person in question I'm pretty sure has never even stepped foot in my shop, but because I'm a retailer I'm expected to help foot the bill:|

I tell all people now, that we will offer upto 40% discount for genuine local causes to help them raise money through a raffle or whatever. And guess what? It's rare I see them again......

God I sound like bloody scrooge this morning :redface:

 

[warnie]

Calling a group of shopkeepers who are sarcastic to their customers dicks is not the same as saying YOU ARE A DICK

dick

Can you two just agree that you both must be dicks for nothing else than calling each other dicks on an internet forum

Now I'm bloody at it

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

Yup Warnie - we get asked all the time for donations. Local rugby club, the ladies' golf team, Brownies, Guides, schools ..... honestly, it's never ending. Today I have received a FB message addressed to "Dear Business Owner" asking for raffle prizes for a Brownie group.

Like you mentioned, half of these people don't even have the decency to come in to my shop and PRETEND to be a customer, let alone actually buy anything from me. They just seem to think I should effectively let them walk in and help themselves to my stock.

Thing that gets me is that once a month, we let local groups/charities/good causes etc use our workshop area to hold a fund raising coffee morning. All they have to do is let us know they would like to hold one, we provide the space, the coffee, the tea, the milk, the sugar and a few cakes & biccies, we do the publicity, we advertise it on our website/FB page etc - and all the money raised on the day from their event goes directly to them. No deductions from us, pure profit for them.

When people ask us for raffle prizes, I say sorry we don't donate prizes, but if they would like to hold a fund raising event we'll happily do that for them provided they can get at least one person to come in and help us with the washing up, tea making etc on the day. If I was fund raising, I would jump at the chance, but actually we rarely get anyone taking us up on the offer (we've only done about 6 events this year). Perhaps it's just too much like hard work!

 

[SillyJokes]

Last thing someone asked me for a discount on was a rubber chicken.

Do you know how ridiculous I felt trying to justify the price of a rubber chicken? "It's a quality bird sir, made of natural latex and hand finished." In the end I gave him a discount.

 

[alanc]

"It's a quality bird sir, made of natural latex and hand finished."

Missed opportunity to say: "Beautiful plummage".

As an internet shop I get surprisingly few begging charity emails, but the one that got me was from quite a large charity. They didn't want items for a raflle; they wanted stuf to 'go into the guest celebreties goody bags'.

 

[SweetJo]

Should start another thread call "the charity brigade" !. For all those good willed people who do a great job raising money for some good causes, but seem to think that just because we have a shop we are loaded and should be giving stock away to support their cause.

What people don't seem to realise, is that some shop keepers don't even earn minimum wage at certain stages of their business and anything donated can affect what they pick up at the end of the week. We just work for ourselves like a builder would or a plasterer. Yet I bet they don't get asked to donate part of their wages to good cause 3-4 times a week in our case.

Some people get so rude about it, yet I bet if I knocked on their door and asked them to donate 3-4 times a week out of their probably much higher salary then mine, then they may get a bit miffed as well!

Well said Warnie. We get people asking at least once a week. They give such a good sob story too. I hate saying no! But I need to pay the bills, and charity starts at home imo Most people are ok when I explain we have so many people asking we cannot help them all.

I don't like getting e-mails from people who are about 20 miles away from my shop. They clearly aren't a customer, they just though "Oooh, sweet shop... raffle prize!"

The MacMillan Coffee Morning one was bad last year. I think everyone in the area who had organised one came in asking for a donation

I feel guilty that I get irritated by it but there are so many charities out there asking for money, and a lot of people just assume people will give something.

 

[scm5436]

How about "if you buy something, I'll donate the profit to your charity"... In the unlikely event they did maybe they'd see how pitifully small the profits are!

We had someone from a large well known charity email us and ask for a £60 item (that we make about £5 profit on) for free, because "we're a charity". I told him the boss of his charity earned £150,000 (I googled it), and maybe he should go and ask him to put his hand in his pocket and pay for it!

 

[japancool]

For all of those people who say customers should know and care about your overheads - do you know or care about the customer's income and bills when they buy your goods?

 

[David1962]

For all of those people who say customers should know and care about your overheads - do you know or care about the customer's income and bills when they buy your goods?

No, they could be millionaires. Plus they have the choice to enter a independent and take the advice, quality, service and pay the price, or go to Tesco or some other faceless chain.

BUT - independents MUST offer that advice, quality and service to justify the price or inconvenience of not "one stop shopping".

 

[japancool]

No, they could be millionaires. Plus they have the choice to enter a independent and take the advice, quality, service and pay the price, or go to Tesco or some other faceless chain.

BUT - independents MUST offer that advice, quality and service to justify the price or inconvenience of not "one stop shopping".

So why should they care about your costs any more than you care about theirs'?

 

[David1962]

So why should they care about your costs any more than you care about theirs'?

They shouldn't, and that's why I wouldn't ask an apparently wealthy customer to pay more just because I thought they could afford it. And likewise I wouldn't go into a Audi showroom when my budget will only stretch to a Skoda.

EDIT

I also wouldn't go into a travel agent, take their advice and time, and then go on the internet to get it cheaper. You get what you pay for - usually.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

As a service provider our company provides quotations based upon the customers needs and requirements, therefore Yes we do care about their income - if we think that they're asking for something that is out of their reach, i.e. cost-wise then we suggest alternatives to what they have asked for on all accounts.

Likewise if a customer asks for our services and we arrive on site and their thoughts are not entirely correct, then we charge accordingly... we don't go changing locks or installing products just because they've asked for it to be done, we inform them of what the issue is and that we can correct the issue without the need to change something.

Again, when customers enter the shop - we have stock out on show or we bring it to them off the shelf, we then show them other possibilities of securing their homes to suit their requirements rather than our pockets.

With regards to keys for instance, when a customer comes in for a key to be cut, and I notice that it's for a lock that is not to BS standard I ask whether or not it's on an external door, if it is I'll let them know that in order for them to be compliant with their insurance they should change the lock sooner rather than later - If someone was to break in with the particular lock on the door, there are insurance companies who will refuse to pay out simply because their home is insecure - it doesn't always matter whether they entered through the door the lock is on either.

 

[herewegoagain.]

to quote BEASTY... It is a harmless process and retailers without question do themselves more damage than good by being dicks with their replies (It is of course all in the delivery)

For a start... it is not a harmless process, all independent shopkeepers are trying to do is make a living... full stop.... most of us dont want to take on the world - we want to pay the electric bill !!

We are not 'dicks'... a lot of people out there want it for nowt and want you to carry it to their car and want it in 10 different sizes... I am all for pleasing the customer, BUT.... a product has to be worth stocking.... - IE you have to make money on it - to live !!!

You state you dont work in retail.... if you did you would understand more...

 

[herewegoagain.]

Should start another thread call "the charity brigade" !. For all those good willed people who do a great job raising money for some good causes, but seem to think that just because we have a shop we are loaded and should be giving stock away to support their cause.

What people don't seem to realise, is that some shop keepers don't even earn minimum wage at certain stages of their business and anything donated can affect what they pick up at the end of the week. We just work for ourselves like a builder would or a plasterer. Yet I bet they don't get asked to donate part of their wages to good cause 3-4 times a week in our case.

Some people get so rude about it, yet I bet if I knocked on their door and asked them to donate 3-4 times a week out of their probably much higher salary then mine, then they may get a bit miffed as well!

I've just had one in raising money for someone who needs an operation. I do feel for them, but the person in question I'm pretty sure has never even stepped foot in my shop, but because I'm a retailer I'm expected to help foot the bill:|

I tell all people now, that we will offer upto 40% discount for genuine local causes to help them raise money through a raffle or whatever. And guess what? It's rare I see them again......

God I sound like bloody scrooge this morning :redface:

Brilliant post Warnie... has to be said...

I get this all the while, because you have a business the general public think you are minted.... I have a laugh generally with the customers about this - it goes along the lines of 'I am a few quid off my Bentley... but I have put diesel in the van!' - the reply is sometimes, there is not a lot of difference in price ! LOL

I do not donate at all, when I opened, I was getting all and sundry coming through the door, it was about 1 a day, for this cause or that cause...it was getting silly...

Now while a lot of the causes are good, especially the club footed lesbians football club... LOL - me or my business cannot AFFORD to give away stock...

What I say to them now is this.... I will get you ANYTHING in the shop, for your cause but at trade price - and I will give them a copy of the invoice, as proof... I dont make anything on it - but it doesnt cost me either, also... I make it clear I will be using my time and fuel to fetch it for them....

Surprisingly most charity fundraisers are happy with this... but always get the money for the item upfront...

 

[herewegoagain.]

For all of those people who say customers should know and care about your overheads - do you know or care about the customer's income and bills when they buy your goods?

Good point... but it works both ways... the shopkeeper tries to make a modest living - not just existing... shopkeepers have the SAME overheads... we have homes, electric, food water etc etc... on top of the rent, rates, wages, electric, diesel, repairs etc - associated with a shop!

I love my business and am competitive, but it is hard out there trying to make a crust...

At this point I want to point out how little profit there is on some items (back me up here other sweet shop owners!!)....

viz: a Christmas gift mug, filled with sweets, at wholesale £3.95 inc vat, (very overpriced) - (no scope for haggling with this supplier) - with a recommended selling price of £4.99 - great so far I hear you say...

Now... B & M down the road have the same item for sale at £3.99 - so if I was to stock it, if I try and sell it at £4.99 - I will not sell ANY, and if I match B&M, I would make 4p - yes 4p profit...

Now it only takes ONE to get broken, stolen etc - and I would make a big loss on the box of 12 they come in.... NO POINT STOCKING THEM...

B&M buy by the container, independents have to buy one box...

 

[Homer J Simpson]

The cost to us for a cellophane bag and bit of ribbon would be around 5p. So yes I sort of see your point.

We also charge 30p funnily enough, which still is something you can't get at Tesco and the like and 99% of our customers have no problem with it, and their normally pleased their sweets are getting gift wrapped for such a small amount.

However I would waive it instantly if I felt a customer did not want to pay it. As whoever is getting the gift is going to have our label splashed across it, and the last thing I want is an unhappy customers passing on a gift to another person moaning about us!. What I want is the customer handing it over saying how wonderful my shop is

But all said and done, when the majority ask for such and such sweets to be gift wrapped, I then ask them how much they would like to go to, and add the charge within the final price. The customer has no idea and is happy.

I can't see someone buying from you as a gift and then handing the gift over complaining that they were too tight to pay for it to be gift wrapped.

 

[mhall]

Changing the subject slightly, but has anyone else noticed how much new stuff Charity shops are selling now? We delisted three suppliers last month because we discovered they were selling the same stuff to charity shops. I walked round Burton On Trent last night and was amazed how many of them have gift items in the window, all new and tagged, being sold at the standard mark up.

I don't mind the principle of the charity shops selling the same stuff if they didn't get cheaper rates and rent. Somewhere down the line someone is going to have to make a stand to level the playing field, but I bet it won't be this government (or the next)

 

[cazza]

We have the same problem, always being asked to donate to some charitable causes. Now we just tell them we support one local charity (a local hospice) and it works. We don't lose out either as we donate all our excess carboard, we take it to a local recycle yard, where it is weighed and the charity receives the cash amount. So we do our bit without being out of pocket and the charity we support earns much needed money.

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

I find charities quite confusing to say the least.

For instance, a local charity in a town nearby opened up it's own "charity shop" yet they still ring businesses asking for donations for events?... Cheek is one for a better word an understatement in these cases.

Then when you actually make an offer of something, for instance we offered 100 gift tokens worth £5 of free key cutting... no kidding now, that's 100 prizes surely... they actually had the cheek to ask for something else!

They want freebies handed out, yet they want to determine what you're giving away? Quite confusing if you ask me.

 

[Unshoesual]

I do get the occasional haggler on our shoes but tend not to let them have them reduced. I did give in to one lady once as she wanted the matching bag. She was buying the last pair of shoes and I had two bags left so I let her have a 'deal' on the two together but checked my cost price to make sure I was making some money still

When I get asked for raffle prizes, I give them a voucher for the shop. I think I've given out about a dozen and only one has been returned. I do put a use by date on it (6 months) but use it as a way of getting them through the door.

 

[SweetJo]

Good point... but it works both ways... the shopkeeper tries to make a modest living - not just existing... shopkeepers have the SAME overheads... we have homes, electric, food water etc etc... on top of the rent, rates, wages, electric, diesel, repairs etc - associated with a shop!

I love my business and am competitive, but it is hard out there trying to make a crust...

At this point I want to point out how little profit there is on some items (back me up here other sweet shop owners!!)....

viz: a Christmas gift mug, filled with sweets, at wholesale £3.95 inc vat, (very overpriced) - (no scope for haggling with this supplier) - with a recommended selling price of £4.99 - great so far I hear you say...

Now... B & M down the road have the same item for sale at £3.99 - so if I was to stock it, if I try and sell it at £4.99 - I will not sell ANY, and if I match B&M, I would make 4p - yes 4p profit...

Now it only takes ONE to get broken, stolen etc - and I would make a big loss on the box of 12 they come in.... NO POINT STOCKING THEM...

B&M buy by the container, independents have to buy one box...

Totally backing you up! I have a B&M two doors away. And a Wilko's just round the corner. It drives me mad when they sell things cheaper than I can get at the wholesalers. I saw some things I really wanted to stock, but when I worked out the costs, and what other places are selling them for, there's just no point

 

[japancool]

Good point... but it works both ways... the shopkeeper tries to make a modest living - not just existing... shopkeepers have the SAME overheads... we have homes, electric, food water etc etc... on top of the rent, rates, wages, electric, diesel, repairs etc - associated with a shop!

I love my business and am competitive, but it is hard out there trying to make a crust...

At this point I want to point out how little profit there is on some items (back me up here other sweet shop owners!!)....

viz: a Christmas gift mug, filled with sweets, at wholesale £3.95 inc vat, (very overpriced) - (no scope for haggling with this supplier) - with a recommended selling price of £4.99 - great so far I hear you say...

Now... B & M down the road have the same item for sale at £3.99 - so if I was to stock it, if I try and sell it at £4.99 - I will not sell ANY, and if I match B&M, I would make 4p - yes 4p profit...

Now it only takes ONE to get broken, stolen etc - and I would make a big loss on the box of 12 they come in.... NO POINT STOCKING THEM...

B&M buy by the container, independents have to buy one box...

I'm not saying shopkeepers are obliged to provide discounts just because a customer asks for them. Whether you do or don't is entirely up to you and if you refuse, that's your prerogative.

I'm simply taking exception at the people who say customers should care about the retailer's overheads. No they shouldn't. It's up to the retailer to make sure they're making enough margin to stay in business and stay competitive.

Neither customers nor retailers are there to be charities.

 

[herewegoagain.]

I'm not saying shopkeepers are obliged to provide discounts just because a customer asks for them. Whether you do or don't is entirely up to you and if you refuse, that's your prerogative.

I'm simply taking exception at the people who say customers should care about the retailer's overheads. No they shouldn't. It's up to the retailer to make sure they're making **enough margin to stay in business and stay competitive**.

Neither customers nor retailers are there to be charities.

see **

It is simply not enough to earn enough margin to stay in business and be competitive, you have to make a PROFIT... enough to take a wage worth having as (as has been said previously in the posts) some independent shopkeepers earn LESS than the minimum wage per hour at times....

Having said that I love my shop and the customers seem to too - but its bloody hard work for what you get back financially - it is really frustrating when you can buy in other retail shops cheaper than wholesalers - making the items in question not worth stocking - it is a race to the bottom, devaluing the real costs of goods - ie sustainable ones, where the shop keeper can make a profit....

Nowadays the general public seem not to be as bothered about quality or service for that matter, well all know money is tight but..... customers need to put their money where their mouth is if they want to keep the independents actually viable....

I get it all the time where people browse, and although the conversion rate is good, some people think it is a museum !! - customers and potential customers have to understand that to remain open, they need people to spend money in them - a good measure is looking out on the high street and see how many people are NOT carrying carrier bags !!!

I can see if things carry on once China starts hiking prices, maybe in a few years the B&M's of this world may not exist in the form we know and by then a lot if independents will be history.... what will happen then?

 

[japancool]

It is simply not enough to earn enough margin to stay in business and be competitive, you have to make a PROFIT... enough to take a wage worth having as (as has been said previously in the posts) some independent shopkeepers earn LESS than the minimum wage per hour at times....

I'm including profit in the margin. Clearly if you're not making enough profit to take a wage worth having, you wouldn't be in that business!

As for keeping independents open... well, if the public values what the independents offer, they will buy from them. Independents don't have a God-given right to exist just because they're independent. Why do I buy from the local sandwich shop rather than pre-packed ones from the nearby One Stop? Because One Stop sandwiches are rank, dry and horrible. I don't buy from the sandwich shop because I think "Oh, if I don't buy from them they'll go out of business". If they sold dry, horrible, rank sandwiches, I wouldn't buy from them either!

 

[scm5436]

Seems like this sales guy has the best way to deal with customers asking for a discount:

http://www.dilbert.com/strips/comic/2013-10-08/

 

[herewegoagain.]

I'm including profit in the margin. Clearly if you're not making enough profit to take a wage worth having, you wouldn't be in that business!

As for keeping independents open... well, if the public values what the independents offer, they will buy from them. Independents don't have a God-given right to exist just because they're independent. Why do I buy from the local sandwich shop rather than pre-packed ones from the nearby One Stop? Because One Stop sandwiches are rank, dry and horrible. I don't buy from the sandwich shop because I think "Oh, if I don't buy from them they'll go out of business". If they sold dry, horrible, rank sandwiches, I wouldn't buy from them either!

No one said anything about a God given right - but all we are doing is trying to earn a crust - it is as simple as that - personally in my business, like most independents, I go the extra mile, for example, top quality, added value, personal service, sourcing hard to find products etc.... but people out there really do want something for nothing.... and the real problem is the big stores who are ready to 'cut your throat' !!

 

[japancool]

No one said anything about a God given right - but all we are doing is trying to earn a crust - it is as simple as that - personally in my business, like most independents, I go the extra mile, for example, top quality, added value, personal service, sourcing hard to find products etc.... but people out there really do want something for nothing.... and the real problem is the big stores who are ready to 'cut your throat' !!

So do I, although I'm not competing with big stores.

But I still don't think a customer should know or care about your overheads. Customers care about what's important to them, just like retailers do. If they want a discount and you can't afford to give it to them, don't give it to them. If they choose to go shopping elsewhere because of it, so be it but a polite refusal isn't hard.

Any shopkeeper who responds with a Basil-Fawlty-esque sarcastic response - particularly in front of other customers - deserves what they get, IMO.

 

[warnie]

Good point... but it works both ways... the shopkeeper tries to make a modest living - not just existing... shopkeepers have the SAME overheads... we have homes, electric, food water etc etc... on top of the rent, rates, wages, electric, diesel, repairs etc - associated with a shop!

I love my business and am competitive, but it is hard out there trying to make a crust...

At this point I want to point out how little profit there is on some items (back me up here other sweet shop owners!!)....

viz: a Christmas gift mug, filled with sweets, at wholesale £3.95 inc vat, (very overpriced) - (no scope for haggling with this supplier) - with a recommended selling price of £4.99 - great so far I hear you say...

Now... B & M down the road have the same item for sale at £3.99 - so if I was to stock it, if I try and sell it at £4.99 - I will not sell ANY, and if I match B&M, I would make 4p - yes 4p profit...

Now it only takes ONE to get broken, stolen etc - and I would make a big loss on the box of 12 they come in.... NO POINT STOCKING THEM...

B&M buy by the container, independents have to buy one box...

I can back you up on what your saying, but I will never entertain selling a such a low margin product unless it has a massive turnover, which these mugs don't !

The way we survive is by distancing ourselves as far away as possible from the likes of B&M. If we have to design and make all our gifts which we mostly do anyway then so be it. 40% POR is my limit ! as turnover is not high enough in this game to be selling low margin run of the mill products.

The good thing about our shops though is people do come in for something a little different if their stuck for ideas, and normally don't mind paying a little extra for it

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

I do think culture in Britain is changing, people now expect "the best price" and are not afraid to ask for it. Just look at the advertising the big supermarkets do these days; they're all undercutting each other, offering vouchers to match any price should a rival stock what you've bought cheaper, we're awash with price comparison sites and everybody - customers, retailers - is now much more cost conscious.

It may be irritating when someone asks for a discount but we do have to accept that lots of people now think it's worth asking, they might get lucky. We don't have to offer discounts unless we want to or it's worth our while to do so, but we do need to remember that even if the person asking for the discount doesn't buy, if you're rude to them, word will soon get out and that could cost us.

We all know we have to be nice when we're behind our counters, even if we don't feel like it - that's why we come on this forum when we need a bloody good moan!

 

[Root 66 Woodshop]

See, I don't get why some folk are suggesting that a sarcastic comment is something that shouldn't happen, Sarcasm is just another form of witt... whether people like it or not as stated previously it's all in the delivery of the reply - however I'm pretty certain that the folk on this forum (bar a few) are not delivering sarcasm with a moan but with witt.