Skype Opinions Wanted

[Excel Expert]

Hi All,

Looking at my web stats it looks like the vast majority of my site visitors are from the USA, however I think having only a British telephone number is slowing down the conversions.

I am now looking at getting a Skype subscription which comes with three numbers. I will be setting up a number in the UK, USA and one in Oz so I can give out three numbers.

Has anyone else done this? and have you had any luck with it?

Thanks

 

[sm1]

I'd try and stay away from Skype if I were you. You can't port the numbers and quality isn't good.

Cheers

 

[mke]

The amount of replies adequately illustrates the level of interest in the topic. It would seem Skype is dead, or at best dying, as a viable entity for business.

People are turning to the SIP standard, with which you can achieve the same thing and a lot more. It is more reliable and transferable. Skype is a proprietary protocol. SIP is a standard, which Skype fails to meet.

If nobody else helps on SIP (cue: several providers on here), PM me and I'll see what I can do.

 

[sm1]

I can certainly vouch for the help and support Colin has given from www.voipfone.co.uk on here. His username is cjd.


Cheers

 

[cjd]

Getting good telephone numbers with decent routing in other countries is actually quite hard to pull off - it's normally illegal. Skype can do a lot of international numbers but their service isn't what you'd want for business

The problem is that unless the route between say London and Sydney is properly managed, the latency will kill the call. Skype use the public internet to send that call - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

I suggest you trial it or a few weeks as it costs very little to do.

We have some international numbers - we can do USA (but only freephone) and not Australia. The numbers we have are connected to proper telephony routes to avoid the internet distance problem, but in your case it's not that helpful - sorry.

 

[leemason]

I would suggest getting a decent IP telephone that uses SIP protocol and can support and number of lines (service providers). In this way you can select the best service provider for whichever country you want a phone number in to get the best quality.

Here is a list of SIP service providers: http://www.voip-info.org/wiki/view/VOIP+Service+Providers+Business.

 

[peteratskype]

One of the great advantages of Skype is that you can download and try it for free (or at minimal cost if you’re buying credit to call landlines and mobiles) – and it typically only takes a few minutes to set up.

We’re pretty proud of our call quality – and I’m very happy to help people on an individual basis who are having problems.

In any case, I recommend that you give it a shot. There’s a dedicated business section on the Skype website, which should cover all the basics, but please PM me if you have any questions specific to your own requirements and I’ll do my best to help.

I’d post the URL here, but I’m not allowed to (yet) – a quick search for ‘Skype for Business’ online should do the trick, however.

 

[cjd]

Hey, good to see you Peter. When will you be doing 999?

 

[peteratskype]

Skype doesn’t – and isn’t planning to – support emergency calling. You’ll have to use a traditional landline or mobile for that.

Still, if the original poster’s objective is to provide UK, US and Australian numbers for their customers to call, Skype certainly fits the bill.

 

[Subbynet]

I don't know if I really like the idea of reps from multi-billion dollar companies frequenting these forums. It blurs the line completely between honest impartial advice and that of a sales pitch...

Just my 2 cents on the matter, its nothing personal....

 

[P4D | Parcels4Delivery]

I use Skype a lot to speak to friends and family around the world and it has been great. Saying that I haven't used any othe VOIP provider so I can't comment on specifically how good Skype is.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Petra,

Good to see someone from Skype active on the forum.

Following on from CJD's comment, isnt emergency calling/access now a UK requirement? If it is and you have no plans, aren't you breaking the law?

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Excel,

I wouldnt totally rule out Skype, but you should always have it your mind that you MAY have to change things.

My concern would be who is going to answer the calls at 3 in the morning, when LA or Sydney is calling?

Have you thought about click to call (special or Skype)?

 

[KM-Tiger]

I don't know if I really like the idea of reps from multi-billion dollar companies frequenting these forums. It blurs the line completely between honest impartial advice and that of a sales pitch...

That's always true here, regardless of the size of company.

As long as the poster declares their interest - as Peter has with that username - I see no problem.

 

[peteratskype]

I don't know if I really like the idea of reps from multi-billion dollar companies frequenting these forums. It blurs the line completely between honest impartial advice and that of a sales pitch...

Point taken - and I'm certainly wary of becoming too sales-pitchy.

Skype has started to get involved more with discussions about Skype in forums and blogs to help people out with questions and problems, and I'm responsible for much of that work.

I'm keen to listen to feedback and - if the collective opinion is that I'm doing more harm than good - I'm happy to tone things down.

 

[sabian1982]

Can i suggest you go and buy this months Computer Shopper magazine- they have done a labs test on a selection of providers (including Skype) to provide you with the best costs, service etc - sounds like it should be a must read for you!

 

[MattyB]

I've been using skype for a couple of years now and the only time I've ever had problems with the quaility and service is when my broadband provider was letting me down, and I had a rouge service gobbling up bandwidth.

Skype is a brilliant application, and for people who work away from the office, it's a invaluable tools that offers free communications ( I don't like the video as I tend to wear scruffs for home, smarts for the office).

 

[cjd]

Skype doesn’t – and isn’t planning to – support emergency calling. You’ll have to use a traditional landline or mobile for that.

It that official policy then?

Because if it is, Skype will have to stop allowing calls to and from the UK telephone network.

(In order to comply with Ofcom's new VoIP regulation which came into effect on 8th September 2008).

 

[sabian1982]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/15/voip_emergency_calls/

That being said: http://www.computeractive.co.uk/computeractive/news/2226793/skype-refuses-comply-ofcom-999

 

[Courir]

Hi there peteratskype and welcome to the forums. I am pleased to see you here - just thinking about switching to Skype for the home phone and good to get some advice from someone connected to Skype.

I will start another thread on this but what's happened to the nice Philips phone the 841? No one seems to have it now (OOS) apart from Skype and they want a staggering £159 for it.

 

[cjd]

Terrifying arrogance.

Skype has said it will not be following these rules. A representative for the company said: "At this time, Skype is not complying with Ofcom’s ruling, as we believe that it is not applicable to our software offering and in fact potentially harmful to public safety.”

So Skype is ignoring UK law AND - in the eyes of Ofcom - putting the public in danger.

They don't really have too many choices, comply or be fined 10% of earnings and ulimately be shut down.

Alternatively they could close down the UK part of their PSTN business I suppose ..... there go your numbers.

 

[24x7 Exchange]

As far as I know, Skype has never purported to be a telephone replacement service. They quite clearly state this and advise against using it as such. I'm not even sure that you can. Please forgive and correct me if I'm wrong.

If you want to use it to stay in touch with people near and far (for free and / or very cheaply), and also communicate with potential customers abroad as the OP requires, I think Skype are doing a terrific job and fair play to them.

Having said that, I've been using Skype for about 3 years and am now looking for a more reliable service for business. I still do think it's a very good service for what it does.

 

[Subbynet]

They sell phones which work like and look like phones. If I seen it in an burning office I wouldn't think "oh Skype Phone - no 999", but oh $%^* the buildings on fire someone quick phone the fire brigade.

If it was purely a internet soft-phone type service they may have a point about not being a telephone company, but this is hardware for replacing a conventional phone network, and as such should offer the same safeguards.

 

[cjd]

As far as I know, Skype has never purported to be a telephone replacement service. They quite clearly state this and advise against using it as such. I'm not even sure that you can. Please forgive and correct me if I'm wrong.

You're wrong

Skype started life as a clever bit of PC to PC software, developed from early file sharing programmes. That is not a telephoe service but it was powerful enough to start a new industry.

However, as soon as they connected to the Public Telephone Network offering outbound calling to ordinary telephones (Skype Out) and inbound UK telephone numbers (Skype In) they became a telephone service.

This isn't a matter of opinion, it's UK law - Skype is not allowed to have its own version of what UK law is. It's going to be interesting to see what happens next.

1.10 General Condition 4 requires PATS 3providers to ensure that any end-user can access the emergency services by calling 999 and 112 at no charge

3 In summary, PATS are defined as (i) a service available to the public (i.e. a PECS) (ii) for making and receiving national and international calls and (iii) accessing emergency services (iv) through a national or international phone number on a numbering plan. Those four points are known as the "gating criteria" for the PATS definition. For the full definition, see Article 2(c) of the Universal Services Directive (2002/20/EC) and Ofcom General Conditions (Schedule to the Notification under Section 48(1) of the Communications Act 2003) Part 1 para.1 and GC 18.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/voip/voipstatement/voipstatement.pdf

 

[KM-Tiger]

As a matter of interest, if I use a service provider based in Germany to connect calls from my SIP phone in the UK to UK PSTN numbers, how can Ofcom enforce the 999 rule? Without mentioning names, though a few will guess, this provider clearly states it does not route 999 calls.

BTW: I'm not on fire, and even if I was I've made my own arrangements to route 999 appropriately.

 

[Excel Expert]

Thanks all for the replies, loads and loads to think about.

Based on the facts that I only want to have a telephone number in the USA, Canada and Oz, and that I am expecting a low number of calls, I feel I should at least give Skype a chance.

It won't be a replacement for my normal day to day phone so the 999 issue won't be....well an issue

Many thanks again everyone

 

[24x7 Exchange]

They sell phones which work like and look like phones. If I seen it in an burning office I wouldn't think "oh Skype Phone - no 999", but oh $%^* the buildings on fire someone quick phone the fire brigade.

You're wrong

Skype started life as a clever bit of PC to PC software, developed from early file sharing programmes. That is not a telephoe service but it was powerful enough to start a new industry.

Fair points, but these things I knew. My point is that as far as I'm aware Skype is integrated into mobile phones from 3Mobile. And they also have the handsets that switch between PSTN and Skype. I guess that I imagine that wherever they are on 'real' phones it is backed up with a 'real' phone service. Except for their wi-fi phone (which I have) and for which I take Subbynet's point. However, I know that I would never try and use that as a regular phone. Like the OP I just use it to make and receive international calls. My 'real' O2 Blackberry is never far from my side. Do they have office phone handsets that are Skype only?

 

[cjd]

You can buy all sort of bits of equipment to run Skype - there are loads of DECT like phones available. Ofcom's view, and to a large extent, ITSPA's, is that 'if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then is a f*cking mallard - stop pretending'.

There is an expectation that something that looks like a telephone and can call UK numbers should be able to dial 999 - that's a very hard thing to argue against with any conviction and you have to question the motives of those that do so.

They are also looking ahead too to a world where ALL phones will be VoIP.

In my opinion they got carried away requiring PCs to look like ducks, their ideas on labelling are barking mad and on location notification are utterly unworkable - but that's regulators for you.

 

[cjd]

As a matter of interest, if I use a service provider based in Germany to connect calls from my SIP phone in the UK to UK PSTN numbers, how can Ofcom enforce the 999 rule? Without mentioning names, though a few will guess, this provider clearly states it does not route 999 calls.

BTW: I'm not on fire, and even if I was I've made my own arrangements to route 999 appropriately.

Offshore companies - which Skype tries to pretend it is despite its UK office and like your German company - are in an interesting position. We made the point over and over to Ofcom that they must be forced to comply to UK regs otherwise it would create unequal competition. (Providing 999 services is quite an onerous task as we must make commitments to provide reliable and resilient networks as well as put the processes and infrastructure in place to do it - all for free).

It's easy to enforce - if the non-UK company refuses to comply Ofcom, removes their UK number ranges. Couldn't be simpler.

I look forward to porting your SIPKraut number when the time comes and your free lunch ends

 

[24x7 Exchange]

Very interesting topic, shedding light on things I hadn't really given much thought to before. Thanks everyone

 

[cjd]

I'd still like to hear from Peter how Skype UK thinks it can send and receive calls from the UK Public Switched Telephone Network but not comply with General Condition 4 of the 2003 Communication Act.

 

[isurus]

OK, cjd is heavily (rabidly? ) biased towards to voipfone - for obvious reasons, but I have to say that I have found that voipfone provide a better call quality than skype.

I tried using skype in a domestic capacity for a while (off and on over the course of several years), but found the call quality to be weak. (although friends of mine are happy enough with it)

I have been using voipfone for my business for a couple of years now, and have been happy with the service that they provide. (To the point that I recommend their service to my customers)

Skype's track record with regards to PSTN numbers is also a little concerning: according to an article on theregister.co.uk (I can't post URLs yet):

Posted in VoIP, 22nd November 2007 11:49 GMT
Updated: Up to 10,000 Skype customers have to change their SkypeIn number by 20 December, an email to customers advised last night.

By way of recompense, it also offered affected punters a year's free service with voicemail and a grovelling apology.
...
Skype's message board is full of complaints from users about to lose their numbers, who have printed up business cards or even "...had to pulp a mailshot to 3,000 people, already stuffed, stamped, and ready to go, with first class stamps stuck on".
...

If there have been similar problems with voipfone, I haven't heard of them.

I feel I should at least give Skype a chance.

Fair enough. Would you mind posting your findings? If it doesn't work out, I suggest giving voipfone a try.

 

[DavidT]

1.10 General Condition 4 requires PATS 3providers to ensure that any end-user can access the emergency services by calling 999 and 112 at no charge

3 In summary, PATS are defined as (i) a service available to the public (i.e. a PECS) (ii) for making and receiving national and international calls and (iii) accessing emergency services (iv) through a national or international phone number on a numbering plan. Those four points are known as the "gating criteria" for the PATS definition. For the full definition, see Article 2(c) of the Universal Services Directive (2002/20/EC) and Ofcom General Conditions (Schedule to the Notification under Section 48(1) of the Communications Act 2003) Part 1 para.1 and GC 18.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/consult/condocs/voip/voipstatement/voipstatement.pdf

I find this a little interesting...

So am I correct in thinking PATS providers need to provide access to emergency services?

But if you're not a PATS provider this doesn't apply?

And a PATS provider is defined (in part) as a service for accessing emergency numbers?

So... if I read that right... if you are not a service for access emergency numbers you wouldn't be defined as a PATS provider, and this General Condition 4 wouldn't apply.

David Toohey
The Accountants Circle
Accountancy & Bookkeeping Forums | Accountant & Bookkeeper Blogs | Accounting Templates | Find Me an Accountant

 

[cjd]

No - it sounds circular but it's not - it's just the way the old regulation was written.

The new regulation forces all VoIP companies who connect to the Public Switched Telephone Network to provide 999. That's black and white.

Once they provide 999 they become PATS providers - because that's the definition. This is the reason that many companies don't like it - being PATS lumps all sorts of other requirements on the company, provision of directory services, services for handicapped people etc plus the necessity of having a resilient and reliable network.

There's no way out of this believe me - I'm a member of ITSPA and have been involved in the negotiation of this regulation with Ofcom and the Home Office - if you use UK telephone numbers you must provide 999 and you are PATS.

 

[peteratskype]

I tried using skype in a domestic capacity for a while (off and on over the course of several years), but found the call quality to be weak. (although friends of mine are happy enough with it)

Sorry to hear you've had a bad experience - as I said above, I'm happy to help people out individually if they have persistent problems with call quality on Skype. PM me your Skype name if you'd like me to take a look

 

[jodyflorian]

Skype is the quick easy option in my opinion - yes quality is lower but it really is simple. However it probably is worth bearing in mind that you may wish to change at some point, so if you do go for skype, not worth it if you're going to put the number in all your printed materials etc.

 

[nass]

Why on earth would any serious business want to risk something as fundamentally mission critical as the business phone # and the voice connection to all your customers ??? or get in bed with a service that doesn't support legislative requirements? or not be able to do 999 calls? Crazy

 

[Interconnect IT]

We have a client who insists on calling on a Skype phone. Drives me mental - laggy and poor sound quality makes any rapid discourse impossible.

We do have a VOIP phone in the office. Used to be pretty poor, but has improved of late but I admit it doesn't get much use these days. I have a VOIP system ready to roll in the house because of a need to make a lot of international calls, and that should be interesting once set up.

 

[nass]

What everyone should bear in mind that skype isn't the same as VoIP. Skype is just a subset of VoIP often using poor, consumer-quality lines to get to the internet "cloud". There are plenty of great VoIP services out there which use business quality, reliable lines - and that's where the real benefits of VoIP come into their own.

We have companies with dozens of branches throughout the UK that use our VoIP systems. They're known as IP systems in Avaya-speak, the manufacturer whose products we do. It work very well indeed.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

'skype isn't the same as VoIP'

Have I missed something? Of course Skype is VoIP. The voice is transmitted (at least part of the way) over the internet! At its core, it may be a mix of technologies, but it definitely utilises VoIP.

What it isnt, is opensource, it is proprietary.

The issue is that skype falls into the big bag that is known as VoIP and many consumers think Skype and 'true' VoIP are identical services.