Should the rules on UKBF be relaxed a bit?

Discussion in 'Feedback & Help' started by UKSBD, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

    3,346 1,577
    I used to like these forums, spent time on here, but I think it’s far too late to put that genie back in the bottle.



    Personally, I would suggest one significant reason the forums aren’t nearly as busy as they once were is the succession of Admin – Henry, I think, was the first – that wanted to treat all users as snowflakes, and banned far too many active members that would offer blunt opinions. This forum was never Mumsnet, or a kiddie’s chat forum – business owners comment honestly, and should always have been free to do so.


    (Obviously blatantly rude & unhelpful conduct should attract strikes/bans, but Henry & successors were, in my opinion, far too trigger-happy.)




    No idea what the rules are on self-promotion – a very rare visitor, I don’t care to refresh myself.


    I’ve never seen an issue with a plumber saying “you need this – a professional job, and as I’m in your area I could do it”, or an accountant advancing their services while posting a reply; simply saying “PM me” is (as others have observed) completely useless & rude though - that sort of thing should attract a warning.


    Without understanding why you think the self-promotion rules are a hindrance to activity here, no comment on that, @UKSBD ,but unless Sift accepted that people in business sometimes talk bluntly, and invite many banned members back, I don’t see how things will change.



    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: Nov 17, 2019 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #21
  2. bodgitt&scarperLTD

    bodgitt&scarperLTD UKBF Regular Full Member

    311 123
    Too many blatent Indian spam bots are being allowed to post repeatedly.
     
    Posted: Nov 17, 2019 By: bodgitt&scarperLTD Member since: Nov 26, 2018
    #22
  3. Ian J

    Ian J Factoring Specialist Full Member - Verified Business

    5,957 1,906
    That's just tough if people take that attitude
     
    Posted: Nov 18, 2019 By: Ian J Member since: Nov 6, 2004
    #23
  4. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

    11,477 2,366
    Presumably many people get business from the forum, but the nasty or stroppy answers some give to genuine newbie questions, I imagine will put many regulars off using that persons services, whilst some other helpful posters I imagine can get a significant amount of work through being seen as helpful, after all your posts portray a lot about yourself,
     
    Posted: Nov 18, 2019 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
    #24
  5. BLP

    BLP UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    20 6
    As a "noob" myself, I agree with these points.
     
    Posted: Nov 18, 2019 By: BLP Member since: Sep 10, 2019
    #25
  6. Paul Norman

    Paul Norman UKBF Ace Free Member

    2,669 810
    As a slight aside, the Brexit thread is going to top the religion thread for longevity and polarisation. I think they should be published in a book.

    As you were.
     
    Posted: Nov 18, 2019 By: Paul Norman Member since: Apr 8, 2010
    #26
  7. BLP

    BLP UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    20 6
    Here are 2 new example threads of unnecessary sarcasm/condescension which is putting off 'noobs' (I can't post full url yet, sorry);

    "Is there an app?"

    "Dropbox and the never ending performing one time update"
     
    Posted: Nov 18, 2019 By: BLP Member since: Sep 10, 2019
    #27
  8. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Ace Free Member

    9,796 3,961
    That last thread resulted in the reply -
    Some of the replies really can be borderline rude - but that is common for business people. I am not condoning rudeness, but certainly, a degree of directness and bunt honesty is to be expected.

    In business, one has to grasp the nettle and face facts as they really are. Failure to do this will result in a failed business. That means one has to fire the incompetent and lazy, tell the stupid that they are stupid and close down pet schemes and whole aspects of a business if it is not performing well enough or if those resources could be put to better or more profitable use.

    A business forum is not going to be touchy-feely, but I would appeal to my fellow forumites to at least tone things down a bit and if someone asks a stupid question, please don't jump all over them, but simply ask for more information - and only PLEASE comment on those threads and answer those questions to which you have a possible answer and is a subject to know something about.

    It is that bluntness and hard-headedness of businesspeople in general that makes them unpopular with defence lawyers as jury members.

    There are two groups of negative members here - those who only seek to tell others with difficulties how stupid they are (possibly to compensate for their own feelings of inadequacy - who knows!) and those who feel it necessary to comment on every damn thing, regardless of whether they know what the hell they are talking about or not!

    When I started out in business, I too was stupid!

    And if the second group are bored and need to fill their days with activity, may I (respectfully of course!) suggest that they get some work done! I for one shall be cutting up trees for firewood with my trusty chainsaw this afternoon, safe in the knowledge that the telephones are manned and the staff are beavering away at their various tasks.
     
    Posted: Nov 18, 2019 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
    #28
  9. Nico Albrecht

    Nico Albrecht UKBF Enthusiast Full Member - Verified Business

    772 149
    Sarcasm I agree , condescending completely disagree. Crystal balls is my fav. term for absolut guessing without having any information. If that is rude , well can't change it anymore.

    It was an ace member posting it not a newbie. Some wonder why this forum is getting quieter it is because of the quality threads have here and people getting annoyed with it.

    Going through the archive here it is clear the quality and min. afford people put in is going downhill.

    I think the technical section should be removed or needs a guided option to post threads.

    He got some sarcasm in 2 sentences, than the middle part was for guidance what to provide and the last part a possible solution without having any information.

    Rules should be made stricter for posting question. It almost seems newbies newer use the search function and a thread should be closed as soon as the correct answer was given.

    Not sure why those 2 were picked here but it seems in the

    Website Reviews & Testing

    category which is brutal honest and harsh it seems to be acceptable but other categories it is not.

     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2019
    Posted: Nov 18, 2019 By: Nico Albrecht Member since: May 2, 2017
    #29
  10. Nico Albrecht

    Nico Albrecht UKBF Enthusiast Full Member - Verified Business

    772 149

    This is exactly the problem. The quality of posts. You just proved the point perfectly.

    1 post was from a noob ( app one a ) the other wasn't from a noob at all. Member since 2007.

    People just posting anything and don't even bother spending 10 seconds to check facts and information.

    Maybe noobs should do a test question before joining and get approval like most good facebook groups now have.
     
    Posted: Nov 18, 2019 By: Nico Albrecht Member since: May 2, 2017
    #30
  11. Financial-Modeller

    Financial-Modeller UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    673 224
    It sounds like there are two questions, with the second a function of the first.

    1. Sift see that traffic and engagement are down (and presumably advertising revenue) and ask why?
    2. Is the moderation function responsible for reducing traffic and engagement as some posters lose interest when efforts to self-promote are thwarted and/or result in deleted posts?

    I have no insight to share in the former.

    If the activities of moderators are being questioned (by mods or others) then why not reduce the activity of moderation for an agreed period of time to see if traffic and/or engagement improve?

    I don't know if moderation is active or passive or in response to users hitting the 'Report' button, but perhaps only moderate if the 'Report' button is used x number if times in relation to a post or poster.

    I have never used the report button as I have never felt the need to do so, but I keep away from the Brexit thread! ;)
     
    Posted: Nov 18, 2019 By: Financial-Modeller Member since: Jul 3, 2012
    #31
  12. BLP

    BLP UKBF Newcomer Free Member

    20 6

    Wrong. I didn't pick those 2 posts for any reason other than that they were on the 'new posts' page. I wasn't singling you out, if that's what you're inferring. I also wasn't positing that the OPs were new.

    My point is that I, as a newb, find the tone of some replies unwelcoming, to say the least. The original post was pondering why the forums might be quieter than in previous times. I'm telling you one of the reasons why - because I'm one of those who has thought twice about continuing here. I'm not a snowflake and I have a thick skin, but not everyone is so confident.
     
    Posted: Nov 18, 2019 By: BLP Member since: Sep 10, 2019
    #32
  13. Ian J

    Ian J Factoring Specialist Full Member - Verified Business

    5,957 1,906
    [QUOTE="Nico Albrecht, post: 2969466, member: 288364

    I think the technical section should be removed or needs a guided option to post threads.

    [/QUOTE]

    Please no. I rely on the technical section when things go belly up on my computer and you have been a great help on more than one occasion
     
    Posted: Nov 18, 2019 By: Ian J Member since: Nov 6, 2004
    #33
  14. Nico Albrecht

    Nico Albrecht UKBF Enthusiast Full Member - Verified Business

    772 149
    And I don't mind to help out with free advice. You provide at least some information to start with. You are a great apprentice but there are new snowflakes in town who never contributed anything and they don't like the tone on here which makes me consider to not give free advice anymore.
     
    Posted: Nov 18, 2019 By: Nico Albrecht Member since: May 2, 2017
    #34
  15. Ian J

    Ian J Factoring Specialist Full Member - Verified Business

    5,957 1,906
    And here is this morning's sarcasm from someone who obviously thinks he's very clever:-

     
    Posted: Nov 19, 2019 By: Ian J Member since: Nov 6, 2004
    #35
  16. Chris Ashdown

    Chris Ashdown UKBF Legend Free Member

    11,477 2,366
    But not as bad as those obnoxious people who correct grammar or speeling
    Look how clever I am type
     
    Posted: Nov 19, 2019 By: Chris Ashdown Member since: Dec 7, 2003
    #36
  17. Mike Hayes

    Mike Hayes UKBF Enthusiast Free Member

    1,123 310
    I'm not fussed either way but the rules need to be made more clear and enforced fairly. There are certain members who are "self promoting" every time they post with seemingly no action being taken despite that being in breach of the current rules.

    If you want to allow "self promotion", that's fine with me, but apply that to all members not only those who have been around for a while. If you have a clear numbered set of rules it should then be simple to apply those to everyone equally and reference them easily.

    I would guess the reason "self promotion" isn't allowed is because there's a "Tenders" forum which only Full Members can reply to.

    Thinking about it more, members can promote their business in their signature, so there's really no reason to be referencing their own business in replies. If you allow people to freely promote their own business, there would be many one line replies to topics ("We can help, get in touch"). I'd stick to the current system and enforce it properly. Those who want to promote their business can stick it in their signature and provide genuinely useful replies for natural exposure.
     
    Posted: Nov 19, 2019 By: Mike Hayes Member since: Jan 7, 2016
    #37
  18. gpietersz

    gpietersz UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    882 193
    I do not mind the first - its a one off, slightly irritable reply to something that annoys me too. I might have made the comment @fisicx did myself (I would have probably been a bit more tactful).

    In the second thread, it was a lengthy put down. Why do it? The OP did not even ask for help, a one line reply on the lines of "I might be able to help if you tell me the OS version etc." would have done.

    In both cases the threads degenerated into discussions about whether the first reply was justified.
     
    Posted: Nov 19, 2019 By: gpietersz Member since: Sep 10, 2019
    #38
  19. gpietersz

    gpietersz UKBF Enthusiast Full Member

    882 193
    I forgot what I came to this thread to say!

    Its not outright spammers who most annoy me here. Its people who make lots of short trite or superficial comments that contribute nothing to the discussion.

    No one is perfect and its too much to expect everyone to make a deep and knowledgeable contribution in every comment, but some people only make pointless comments.
     
    Posted: Nov 19, 2019 By: gpietersz Member since: Sep 10, 2019
    #39
  20. Ian J

    Ian J Factoring Specialist Full Member - Verified Business

    5,957 1,906
    I would like to see an immediate ban on anyone who responds to a question with "What does your contract / shareholders agreement say" :D
     
    Posted: Nov 19, 2019 By: Ian J Member since: Nov 6, 2004
    #40