Rising fuel costs

[Scubadog]

Also starting to see stories like this already
https://www.express.co.uk/life-style/cars/1558041/car-owner-fury-neighbour-ev-parking-space and one about a councillor getting a fine as he left his car to charge at a lidl whilst he walked home with shopping, by the time he returned the car was only about 60% charged but he had gone over the 90min max stay in the car park.

These are not insurmountable issues BUT someone needs to actually plan a strategy nationally with consistency or parking restrictions allied to charging times for public chargers

Oh well there you go....can the whole lot. One idiot parks irresponsible.

Stop the press!

Fire up the oil refineries....keep burning the Dino juice. Ignore the pollution. Ignore the putin issue. Ignore the fact its running out. Some idiot parked irresponsible so we can't change anything.


Seriously.......this is what people posting g things like this actually sound like.

 

[Scubadog]

FWIW, do the true green thing, keep it well maintained and use it to the end of its life.

My 4x4, is 17 years old, on its third clutch, second gearbox, eight set of suspension bushes, eight set of tyres, and looks and drives like new, bar the odd pin sized ding etc. I will be keeping it until parts are no longer available, but the engine is as good as the day it was new, according to mileage and compression tests. I reckon it has at least 500,000 miles left in it minimum.

Evs don't have clutches and some don't even have geatboxes...#just saying.

 

[Scubadog]

Can someone explain to me in simple terms what I should replace my large comfortable and quiet estate car that does at least 800 miles between tank stops, has lasted me ten years and will probably last another ten years, with one of those milk floats that hardly do 200 miles between long and difficult recharging sessions, are expensive for what they are, are hardly going to last 20 years and are environmentally a disaster?

And for those of you that still think that global warming is a thing, look up Milankovitch Cycles.

Milankovitch cycles - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The real problems are not cars but pollution and the insidious effects of pollution. And the time to do something about it was in the 70s. when we who started the green movement first sounded the alarms. All these milk floats do is replace one sort of pollution with far more dangerous types of pollution and a whole new set of dreadful problems.

The underlying problem is not energy but too many people. But nobody wants to face that problem.

Sorry...but Milakovitch cycles....yea, they are real.

But we have blown the top out of any cycle seen previously.

I wonder.....how do you explain the current peak? It does represent any cycle seen previously.....EVER!

Evidence - NASA Science

Earth's climate has changed throughout history. Just in the last 800,000 years, there have been eight cycles of ice ages and warmer periods, with the end of

climate.nasa.gov

This one usually shuts up old dinosaurs climate deniers in their 4x4's

Earth Temperature Timeline

xkcd.com

Care to explain the clear exponential increase in the last 50 years?


Yea...quite happy to thin a few out population out. Lets start with old Americans, who are some of the most wasteful and obnoxious emitters there are. They have the capability to make changes "but don't see the point" aka lazy fat and dumb

 

[MBE2017]

Evs don't have clutches and some don't even have geatboxes...#just saying.

Did I ever say they did? You need to learn to read and understand what the reply is referring to.

Go on, I know you can do it if you try.

 

[Scubadog]

Did I ever say they did? You need to learn to read and understand what the reply is referring to.

Go on, I know you can do it if you try.

Did I ever say you did say they did?

You need to learn to read and understand what the reply is referring too.

I don't think you can even if you tried.

 

[WaveJumper]

Clearly didn't bother asking anyone that k own...otherwise the joint owners could have been charging for electricity and making a profit, whilst the ev owners could have been benefitting from still cheaper energy than buying it onthe road and far heaper than diesel or petrol.

Of course we are looking at this, brings its own issues which I am sure we will overcome but really you need to calm down before you blow a fuse.

 

[NickGrogan]

FYI the average demand per house is only 500watts

Source?

If this is correct, and you add a charger that uses 3,000W for 8 hours per day, what is the new average?

 

[Scubadog]

Right....perhaps read the tool.
Read how ADMD is calculated.......Read what assumptions are made.......read what happens when you dont make those assumption............then come back with any questions.

Out of interest.....how do you think a TX would cope (using your sizing aproach) when that block of flats all turn on their ovens on Christmas day? BOOOM!

 

[Scubadog]

Source?

If this is correct, and you add a charger that uses 3,000W for 8 hours per day, what is the new average?

Source...2 degrees in the subjet - you can quote me directly.

We would add a 7kW charger, not a 3, the average demand increase.
Glad you understand the basics! Well done....

 

[NickGrogan]

Right....perhaps read the tool.
Read how ADMD is calculated.......Read what assumptions are made.

ADMD calculator - LCT Ready Housing Developments

SP Energy Networks own and operate the electricity transmission and distribution network in the south of Scotland and the distribution network in Cheshire, Merseyside and North Wales.

www.spenergynetworks.co.uk

This calculator has been collaboratively designed by SPEN & SSEN to help our customers better estimate the required loads from housing developments, both new and existing, in terms of After Diversity Maximum Demand (ADMD).

One of the key benefits of the tool is allowing customers to incorporate the effects of major LCTs from the “home of the future”. These being Electric Vehicle (EV) chargers and low carbon forms of heating.

This ADMD figure drives the amount of capacity required and should make the quotation process for required works easier and more accurate.

Version 1 of the tool is for developments of 20 houses or more where the feeder will be sufficiently diverse. It is our intention to add functionality for less than 20 customers in future as well as incorporating other technologies.

The tool has been designed using a diverse evidence portfolio of live trial projects, academic research, technical datasheets from LCT manufacturers and monitoring data, amongst others.

Out of interest.....how do you think a TX would cope (using your sizing aproach) when that block of flats all turn on their ovens on Christmas day? BOOOM!

An average oven is 2kW, so no problem, plus they would not be all on at the same time, so no problem.

TX would be sized based on capacity plus and allowance for "unusual" usage and future growth.

What happens when everyone arrives for Christmas dinner (outside of peak hours) and plugs in the car charger whilst the oven is still on?

We would add a 7kW charger, not a 3, the average demand increase.

What would it increase to? Assuming your 7kW charger

Would you describe this increase as significant?

 

[Scubadog]

Why dont you explain what you think will happen whe everyone plugs I their ev at peak times?


And whilst we are at it....why not explain whatyou think the solution should be?


2 questions you have so far refused to answer.

ADMD calculator - LCT Ready Housing Developments

SP Energy Networks own and operate the electricity transmission and distribution network in the south of Scotland and the distribution network in Cheshire, Merseyside and North Wales.

www.spenergynetworks.co.uk

This calculator has been collaboratively designed by SPEN & SSEN to help our customers better estimate the required loads from housing developments, both new and existing, in terms of After Diversity Maximum Demand (ADMD).

One of the key benefits of the tool is allowing customers to incorporate the effects of major LCTs from the “home of the future”. These being Electric Vehicle (EV) chargers and low carbon forms of heating.

This ADMD figure drives the amount of capacity required and should make the quotation process for required works easier and more accurate.

Version 1 of the tool is for developments of 20 houses or more where the feeder will be sufficiently diverse. It is our intention to add functionality for less than 20 customers in future as well as incorporating other technologies.

The tool has been designed using a diverse evidence portfolio of live trial projects, academic research, technical datasheets from LCT manufacturers and monitoring data, amongst others.



An average oven is 2kW, so no problem, plus they would not be all on at the same time, so no problem.

TX would be sized based on capacity plus and allowance for "unusual" usage and future growth.

What happens when everyone arrives for Christmas dinner (outside of peak hours) and plugs in the car charger whilst the oven is still on?




What would it increase to? Assuming your 7kW charger

Would you describe this increase as significant?

 

[NickGrogan]

First question, already answered. Twice.

Second question, no idea what you're asking.

When are you going to answer any of the questions I've asked you?

 

[Scubadog]

First question, already answered. Twice.

Second question, no idea what you're asking.

When are you going to answer any of the questions I've asked you?

Then why do you keep asking the same question?

I have already answered them.....twice.

Odd you struggle with this one. Let me try again.....
If not ectric vehicles, then what do you suggest? Diesel and petrol? The fabled hydrogen or anything else?
I mean, you seem so vehemently apposed to ev's then you must have a different solution.....right?

 

[Scubadog]

What happens when everyone arrives for Christmas dinner (outside of peak hours) and plugs in the car charger whilst the oven is still on?

Not alot. If you new how ADMD actually works, you would see its already taken account. Thats why we dont go to energy brokers to spec transformers. Keep in your skills et would be my advice. If we used your calculations, most people wouldn't even be able to run their ovens!

What would it increase to? Assuming your 7kW charger

What would what increase too? Be speicifi...you have confused alot of things so far.

Would you describe this increase as significant?

Depends on what you are measuring against. Peak demand - No. Average demand - yes. But then, they are designed to help the grid during low demand times....i.e overnight, to save us from shutting down turbines needlessly, or dumping excess energy from wind (as we currently do).

get it yet?
or are you still missing the big picture?

 

[NickGrogan]

Then why do you keep asking the same question?

I have already answered them.....twice.

Odd you struggle with this one. Let me try again.....
If not ectric vehicles, then what do you suggest? Diesel and petrol? The fabled hydrogen or anything else?
I mean, you seem so vehemently apposed to ev's then you must have a different solution.....right?

Where did I say that I was against EVs?

What makes you think I'm "vehemently apposed" to EVs?

You're arguing with yourself.

 

[Scubadog]

Where did I say that I was against EVs?

What makes you think I'm "vehemently apposed" to EVs?

You're arguing with yourself.

No answers then?
Continue the same?

 

[Newchodge]

No answers then?
Continue the same?

It certainly feels like the same has been continuing on this thread for the last 15 years!

 

[NickGrogan]

Where did I say that I was against EVs?

What makes you think I'm "vehemently apposed" to EVs?

You're arguing with yourself.

I've answered every question and provided links to information confirming my statements from National Grid, SSEN, UK Power Networks, Scottish Power and Schnieder Electric. I've linked to news sources including The Guardian.

The personal experience of other UKBF members has also confirmed my statements.

Perhaps you could answer the questions that have been asked of you to the same standard?

 

[Scubadog]

I've answered every question and provided links to information confirming my statements from National Grid, SSEN, UK Power Networks, Scottish Power and Schnieder Electric. I've linked to news sources including The Guardian.

The personal experience of other UKBF members has also confirmed my statements.

Perhaps you could answer the questions that have been asked of you to the same standard?

(for clarity, i have answered every question, and you have misunderstood the technicalities of transformer specifications. Simply copying and pasting things from DNOs (out of context) does not constitute an answer) Thankfully, i cant lower my standards to answer questions to the same level.....that's why i have managed to achieve a high level of education in the subject!


Still no solutions then? Just carry on the same it seems?

You have "Answered" every question.....except this one!
Just arguing (seemingly)against EVs....for the sake of it?
theres a suprise!


Why not just remind everyone, exactly what point you are arguing, as if its not arguing against the transition of EVs, then im a bit lost as to what you point is!

You do however, seem to be squirming around answering this one! I bet i know why....

 

[IanSuth]

Easy


Simply install pedalstall chargers in each space (they even have them that shrink away to be flush with the floor when ot in use). Power can be fed from the existing submain, existing street fur inured power or even a new cable laid specifically.

It's a misunderstanding to believe the electricity actually needs to come from the homeowners house.

Estimate £750 per property if the entire street was done (this is a real life quote based on a similar situation)


It's already happening in the more forward thinking councils.

In fact, I know companies that would install their kit for free...they would literally be fighting over that. Again...I see the tenders pretty much daily for similar situations.

Brilliant if they can do that but the local council here (Reading) who are pretty green didnt manage to get quotes nr that when they looked at it. Instead they want to remove half the parking (make 1 side of rd double yellows) and insist unless people are disabled etc that they join a car club as it is the only way they can provide the infrastructure to support EV's

Although £750 x 144 houses is still £108k for a single rd i doubt it is much more than the cost of setting up the ev car club, making the traffic order changes and painting the DYL's

 

[Scubadog]

Brilliant if they can do that but the local council here (Reading) who are pretty green didnt manage to get quotes nr that when they looked at it. Instead they want to remove half the parking (make 1 side of rd double yellows) and insist unless people are disabled etc that they join a car club as it is the only way they can provide the infrastructure to support EV's

Although £750 x 144 houses is still £108k for a single rd i doubt it is much more than the cost of setting up the ev car club, making the traffic order changes and painting the DYL's

There are companies that woudl fund this themselves. They would then charge the electricity back an cost + profit.

the more forward thinking councils have already seized upon this and will be installing their own chargers (third party) and making profit on the electricity.

just to point out, even if the price of electricity doubled from todays inflated price, it still works out roughly half the price of diesel/petrol per mile.


there are other solutions....you will see the traditional petrol station being challenged big time!
Now a simple sparky and a reel of cable can challenge the likes of Shell and BP! Best thing is...we have only really been doing this in the last 2/3 years! Imagine the innovation that is being driven over the next 10 years!

 

[IanSuth]

You don't and won't.
You are an old dinosaur and will frankly not be around to see the new era.


For those....a bit younger, they enjoy cheap driving, instant torque, clean energy and the joys of waking up every morning g to "a full tank" sufficient for more like 300 miles which is more than 10 times the average distance people drive any day.


So enjoy your Dino juice....no ones making you change. But the world is changing.....fast.

I will keep my skoda octavia estate until the cost of EV's comes down as well

Reading to Chippenham last sunday with a daughter an an entire rugby teams worth of kit, balls, pads etc i had an indicated 70mpg (i stuck at 65mph on the m'way)

The car is 17 years old, cost me 13k plus a dying Punto as an ex demo has done 140k miles and other than a single £1k bill for dm flywheel repair (when we got other things done as well) costs us about £300 a year in servicing.

EV's are great if you have the cash to buy them up front and the space to charge them and a reason to ditch what you already have. Currently the only thing that would make me move quicker would be a need to drive into London regularly (not ulez excempt)

 

[IanSuth]

There are companies that woudl fund this themselves. They would then charge the electricity back an cost + profit.

the more forward thinking councils have already seized upon this and will be installing their own chargers (third party) and making profit on the electricity.

just to point out, even if the price of electricity doubled from todays inflated price, it still works out roughly half the price of diesel/petrol per mile.


there are other solutions....you will see the traditional petrol station being challenged big time!
Now a simple sparky and a reel of cable can challenge the likes of Shell and BP! Best thing is...we have only really been doing this in the last 2/3 years! Imagine the innovation that is being driven over the next 10 years!

I think the bigger issue is that currently one of the economies of EV is no VED, as soon as the number start to rise they will have to bring in pay per mile road usage as along with the reduction in fuel excise duty/VAT income the treasury just can't take it. As soon as that happens the economics will change again.

I did the maths a month or so ago and my guess was that you would need a 6p per mile charge to offset the lost tax revenue based on current income (which was pre changes in fuel prices/tax)

 

[Scubadog]

I think the bigger issue is that currently one of the economies of EV is no VED, as soon as the number start to rise they will have to bring in pay per mile road usage as along with the reduction in fuel excise duty/VAT income the treasury just can't take it. As soon as that happens the economics will change again.

I did the maths a month or so ago and my guess was that you would need a 6p per mile charge to offset the lost tax revenue based on current income (which was pre changes in fuel prices/tax)

I think that would be a fair calculation, assuming roughly 11p per mile for ICE vehicles.

I dont believe the transition is one of economics, but necessity.

The tax breaks now are there purely to get the uptake moving and innovation started....which it is!

Its the whole, crossing the chasm and early adopters model of new technologies

 

[IanSuth]

Oh and before you ask my answer would be to incentivise fleet buyers to buy EV's (they are currently but even more so), they are a huge supplier to the 2nd hand car market of 3 yo vehicles.

Current plans will see a stop to new ICE cars in 2030 so a huge drop in 2nd hand ICE's by 2033.

There are still some applications for which EV's are not suitable such as towing, so I would actually not super penalise 4x4's as the cost of fuel does that itself. Equally any high mileage drives are got via fuel and would be via 6p per mile usage tax.

Just incentivise fleet buyers to switch sooner and you will change the overall average makeup of the nations fleet quicker than going after individual consumers and without the political damage of being seen to be nanny state.

Maybe a charge to fleet buyers equal to your £750 per house charger provision cost for every ICE they own each year with that money being ring fenced for public charger provision would be something that the public would see as a positive

 

[IanSuth]

I think that would be a fair calculation, assuming roughly 11p per mile for ICE vehicles.

I dont believe the transition is one of economics, but necessity.

The tax breaks now are there purely to get the uptake moving and innovation started....which it is!

Its the whole, crossing the chasm and early adopters model of new technologies

my 6p per mile would need to be charged to every car whatever the fuel source and replace VED in my maths

 

[Scubadog]

Oh and before you ask my answer would be to incentivise fleet buyers to buy EV's (they are currently but even more so), they are a huge supplier to the 2nd hand car market of 3 yo vehicles.

Current plans will see a stop to new ICE cars in 2030 so a huge drop in 2nd hand ICE's by 2033.

There are still some applications for which EV's are not suitable such as towing, so I would actually not super penalise 4x4's as the cost of fuel does that itself. Equally any high mileage drives are got via fuel and would be via 6p per mile usage tax.

Just incentivise fleet buyers to switch sooner and you will change the overall average makeup of the nations fleet quicker than going after individual consumers and without the political damage of being seen to be nanny state.

Maybe a charge to fleet buyers equal to your £750 per house charger provision cost for every ICE they own each year with that money being ring fenced for public charger provision would be something that the public would see as a positive

To be honest, lease vehicle already (generally) come with a free EV charger.

I personally, believe the future is not so much public chargers, but more private chargers.

You will notice, company's like Starbucks, costa, and all supermarkets already supply their own public chargers and often they are on free vend.

Public chargers will no longer be found in places where petrol stations are located. instead they will be found in places where people actually want to stop and spend 20 minutes.

Most people (who have access to private chargers) would only use public chargers on the occasional long journeys that most of us dont do that often.

I agree regarding the fact not all vehicles are suitable. My van weighs in at 3.5T of which 1.5T is tools. Right now, there is no suitable EV solution. However, this is coming and fast! This year van builders have released their first EV vans. It is actually a law of physics, that DC motors are superbly suited to heavy loads such as this as they have a constant and linear torque profile.
At a recent expo, i believe a company in a scandi country have developed a HGV that uses DC motors. The torque response is something fantastic...and no gears!

With the speed of battery development underway, i guess 5 years at most before HGVs and 4x4's are electrified.

 

[IanSuth]

To be honest, lease vehicle already (generally) come with a free EV charger.

I personally, believe the future is not so much public chargers, but more private chargers.

You will notice, company's like Starbucks, costa, and all supermarkets already supply their own public chargers and often they are on free vend.

Public chargers will no longer be found in places where petrol stations are located. instead they will be found in places where people actually want to stop and spend 20 minutes.

Most people (who have access to private chargers) would only use public chargers on the occasional long journeys that most of us dont do that often.

I agree regarding the fact not all vehicles are suitable. My van weighs in at 3.5T of which 1.5T is tools. Right now, there is no suitable EV solution. However, this is coming and fast! This year van builders have released their first EV vans. It is actually a law of physics, that DC motors are superbly suited to heavy loads such as this as they have a constant and linear torque profile.
At a recent expo, i believe a company in a scandi country have developed a HGV that uses DC motors. The torque response is something fantastic...and no gears!

With the speed of battery development underway, i guess 5 years at most before HGVs and 4x4's are electrified.

You misunderstand me

I am suggesting Fleet owners have to pay a fee equivalent to installing a public EV charger for each ICE they own each year - that would change the economics for Fleet buyers and change the makeup of the fleet. As it did so the money could be used for installing public charges into places people visit for short periods that are public like libraries, hospitals, doctors surgeries,

 

[NickGrogan]

(for clarity, i have answered every question, and you have misunderstood the technicalities of transformer specifications. Simply copying and pasting things from DNOs (out of context) does not constitute an answer) Thankfully, i cant lower my standards to answer questions to the same level.....that's why i have managed to achieve a high level of education in the subject!


Still no solutions then? Just carry on the same it seems?

You have "Answered" every question.....except this one!
Just arguing (seemingly)against EVs....for the sake of it?
theres a suprise!


Why not just remind everyone, exactly what point you are arguing, as if its not arguing against the transition of EVs, then im a bit lost as to what you point is!

You do however, seem to be squirming around answering this one! I bet i know why....

You claimed that the country is read for 100% EV now, I said it's not and proved that it's not.

Will it be ready by 2030? 2050? That's open to debate, given the government's track record on such things, you can decide for yourself.

EVs are probably the answer to the question, What car should I drive?

But that is the wrong question.

What would I do?

Move away from car ownership and multiple car ownership being the standard.

Make train travel free at the point of use. Increase the number of electric trains.
Scrap HS2, focus on short connections in the North instead
Make bus/tram travel free at the point of use. Upgrade buses to electric as they reach the end of life.
Drastically increase the number of bus routes and frequency of bus journeys.
Increase the number of (free) school buses, charge parents who drop their children off by car.
Improve standards on cleanliness, safety and security on all public transport.
Make public transport the first option for 95% of journeys.
Ban all cars from city/town centres, except for disabled drivers.
Reduce the 36M cars to low millions.

Ban shorter flights.
Progressively change the tax rules on leasing to encourage longer leases on cars, changing ever year, even if it's an EV is wasteful.
Increase the car tax on 2nd cars, even more for 3rd, etc.
Drastically reduce the number of meetings that public sector workers physically attend, this will have a knock-on effect on the private sector.

 

[Scubadog]

You claimed that the country is read for 100% EV now, I said it's not and proved that it's not.

Will it be ready by 2030? 2050? That's open to debate, given the government's track record on such things, you can decide for yourself.

EVs are probably the answer to the question, What car should I drive?

But that is the wrong question.

What would I do?

Move away from car ownership and multiple car ownership being the standard.

Make train travel free at the point of use. Increase the number of electric trains.
Scrap HS2, focus on short connections in the North instead
Make bus/tram travel free at the point of use. Upgrade buses to electric as they reach the end of life.
Drastically increase the number of bus routes and frequency of bus journeys.
Increase the number of (free) school buses, charge parents who drop their children off by car.
Improve standards on cleanliness, safety and security on all public transport.
Make public transport the first option for 95% of journeys.
Ban all cars from city/town centres, except for disabled drivers.
Reduce the 36M cars to low millions.

Ban shorter flights.
Progressively change the tax rules on leasing to encourage longer leases on cars, changing ever year, even if it's an EV is wasteful.
Increase the car tax on 2nd cars, even more for 3rd, etc.
Drastically reduce the number of meetings that public sector workers physically attend, this will have a knock-on effect on the private sector.

No...I said there is enough power now. You have to proven anything. Not a single gle thi g beyond a few tra stormers getting replaced for 5 different reasons none of which cited were EVs....but hey, you have r let the facts stand in your way yet, so why stop now?

How does public transport work in the countryside? 95% of all journeys? Yea...sure.

That's a lot of empty and half full busses.

In rease takes on 3rd vehicles? What does that solve? How many cars do you think people drive at once?

 

[Ozzy]

Well, the rising price of fuel eh? Damn that's getting expensive!

It was probably time about 6 pages back to take this offline in a private conversation here, especially as most of the thread has been between just two.

 

[Ian J]

For those....a bit younger, they enjoy cheap driving, instant torque, clean energy and the joys of waking up every morning g to "a full tank" sufficient for more like 300 miles which is more than 10 times the average distance people drive any day.

Well I don't come in to the category of younger than The Byre but I would certainly be interested to know what EVs are available at reasonable cost that will go for more than 300 miles on a full charge in Winter

 

[Scubadog]

Well I don't come in to the category of younger than The Byre but I would certainly be interested to know what EVs are available at reasonable cost that will go for more than 300 miles on a full charge in Winter

Winter has very little impact on ev batteries, as witnessed by the high uptake in Scandinavia .


But here is a list of vehicles by range.

EV Database

Range of electric vehicles cheatsheet. Quick reference for all plug-in hybrid en full electric cars.

ev-database.uk

 

[Scubadog]

What is clear (and its just an opinion) is that there is a lot of grouting on hear, and my suspicious that there's very few people under the age of 40.

Just a hunch....but probably true based on my observations on this thread and others around this subject

Out of interest....has anyone that is apposed or sceptical actually driven one?

 

[Scubadog]

Well, the rising price of fuel eh? Damn that's getting expensive!

It was probably time about 6 pages back to take this offline in a private conversation here, especially as most of the thread has been between just two.

Only expensive if you don't drive an EV.

The two are linked. If we dont transition then we loose all that green energy we currently dump!

 

[Ozzy]

Out of interest....has anyone that is apposed or sceptical actually driven one?

Yep, so decided to go PHEV to dip my toe in the water.

I currently drive a P400e but have taken the Audi RS e-tron GT out for a test drive. The dealership had to take it to a nearby industrial estate to be charged as they couldn’t get an EV charger installed at their dealership. They told me there wasn’t sufficient capacity on the estate where they are based.
I liked that car but didn’t like the audio system, and couldn’t get used to the low ride position.
Took a Tesla Mode X out but hated it, awful car imho. Uncomfortable to drive and just felt low quality for the price.

In the end have decided to wait for 2024 when Land Rover claim they will be releasing their full EV Range Rover.

 

[Scubadog]

Yep, so decided to go PHEV to dip my toe in the water.

I currently drive a P400e but have taken the Audi RS e-tron GT out for a test drive. The dealership had to take it to a nearby industrial estate to be charged as they couldn’t get an EV charger installed at their dealership. They told me there wasn’t sufficient capacity on the estate where they are based.
I liked that car but didn’t like the audio system, and couldn’t get used to the low ride position.
Took a Tesla Mode X out but hated it, awful car imho. Uncomfortable to drive and just felt low quality for the price.

In the end have decided to wait for 2024 when Land Rover claim they will be releasing their full EV Range Rover.

Wow...that's gotta be something to not have a spare 36amps! That's literally a kettle a toaster and an electric heater. How 9n earth does an industrialestate ot have ebough power for a kettle a toaster and heater. .....or maybe they talk rubbish and just haven't bothered getting one fitted. Mega lol. An estate without 36amps free...

So out of thise vehicles you chose a p400e? What's that like a 10mile range on electric? That has to be the most useless waste of Lithium batteries.

 

[WaveJumper]

I would suggest pop down to your local Porsche dealer and take out the Taycan

 

[Ozzy]

What's that like a 10mile range on electric? That has to be the most useless waste of Lithium batteries.

About 25 actually which amble enough for me to drive to the office, charge and drive home at the end of the day. Then plenty umph to pull the horse trailer at weekends and when needed.
I was also looking at the SVR as am a bit of a petrol head and love the rumble of the engine.

would suggest pop down to your local Porsche dealer and take out the Taycan

Someone else suggested the same. Problem I’m up against is the wife really wants me to get an F type V8, but I know if I did she’d wrap it round a post in no time!

 

[Ian J]

Winter has very little impact on ev batteries, as witnessed by the high uptake in Scandinavia .


But here is a list of vehicles by range.

As I thought, there are no EVs at sensible prices that have a range of 300 miles