Rising energy costs

[gpietersz]

Because someone else in the world is prepared to pay more for what they are selling

Exactly. Its not the retailers who sell to households who are making profits, its the wholesalers who sell to them. There is a global shortage, and prices go up. Its simple supply and demand - I would have thought more people on a business forum would get that.

Its not just the oil and gas companies making higher profits. Everyone selling electricity is minting money: nuclear, windfarms, coal, wood, what ever. They all sell into the same market at the same price.

The government also decided to be reliant on imported gas instead of using more of our own. At least we import from the Norwegians etc. rather than directly from Russia. However our suppliers are going to charge us more. We could cap the prices charged by domestic suppliers. Just gas would not be enough, but if we had a price cap on the wholesale electricity market it might help - although we would have to exempt or subsidise gas generated electricity which would be politically difficult.

Will be interesting to see if alcohol consumption drops and if it then has a long term positive effect

Reductions in alcohol consumption has not tended to have positive effects on health, because those with the sort of problems that harm there health are addicts and do not reduce, so the people who reduce are moderate drinkers anyway so there are not clear benefits.

Price rises in pubs may lead to more consumption, because when people drink at home and have a stocked up they tend to drink more - one of the causes of pandemic drinking levels. Its easier for teens or even kids to nick parent's supplies if there is more at home too (there was a study a while back suggesting there was evidence for this).

 

[WaveJumper]

Well a chancellor the other week said anyone on 45k a year is going to struggle and he's probably right take home is going to be just shy of 34k after tax etc, time they have paid their mortgage, council tax, water, gas, electric, thats a bloody big dent in the finances. So what do you call a good salary these days and who do you think is earning them.

 

[NewTime]

I would agree with this albeit it understates the scale of the problem and the ability to tackle it for a lot of companies. Unless you have windows open and radiators on in the same room type dumbness (in which case you deserve to go out of business) then most (reasonably) well run establishments would do well to find 20% efficiency savings with a fairly deep dive review into their usage. And that'd be an appreciable saving, naturally. Now what do we do about the fact the bill is going up by 400%? Point insinuated... there are a lot of businesses such as small takeways where switching a few lights off, putting some LEDS in, or turning a TV off... is simply not going to save them from the fact the cost of actually running the cookers etc. has gone up a £1k a week. Playing around with the deckchairs on the titanic would be an apt description. The energy saving thing only applies if the business is still viable, and consequently prudent to look for savings in your now biggest expenses. This applies in our case as now I am turning the business over to find out about everything which draws an amp. A lot though won't even bother to look as it simply isn't viable to even try.

I was only talking about personal energy use rather than business. WE can all see what is going to happen with businesses, they are going to pass the cost onto consumers

 

[NewTime]

What is the likelyhood of decent help from the government next week? Does Truss really have anything up her sleeve and is that going to be relevant to the current price cap or the price cap after?

Also, will businesses be involved in it? All we have seen is about households.

To me, it looks like poorest households will need more than they are getting now, by quite a long stretch

 

[thetiger2015]

I was only talking about personal energy use rather than business. WE can all see what is going to happen with businesses, they are going to pass the cost onto consumers

They can't put it on consumers. The price rise it too big.

A popular restaurant has just posted that their energy bill is going from £3k a year to £23k - even if they sack themselves, it won't save them. Plus it's going up again next year anyway.

 

[NewTime]

They can't put it on consumers. The price rise it too big.

A popular restaurant has just posted that their energy bill is going from £3k a year to £23k - even if they sack themselves, it won't save them. Plus it's going up again next year anyway.

I wasn't particulary talking about restaurants

 

[DontAsk]

We have made our Xmas cakes already, before the price cap increases and costs go up even more.

 

[SillyBill]

What is the likelyhood of decent help from the government next week? Does Truss really have anything up her sleeve and is that going to be relevant to the current price cap or the price cap after?

Also, will businesses be involved in it? All we have seen is about households.

To me, it looks like poorest households will need more than they are getting now, by quite a long stretch

It isn't really affordable to help with the extent that help is needed, such is the scale. This is now a game of brinkmanship between politicans/elites on both sides who seemingly can't lose face and are consistently upping the ante each week (and therefore our bills) but with the poorest in society the ones to pay for it.

 

[japancool]

Reports are that the Government will borrow - not guarantee - £100bn to keep (consumer) energy bills where they are.

And cut taxes while raising defence and social care spending.

Anyone else see a flaw in this plan?

 

[OMGVape]

Reports are that the Government will borrow - not guarantee - £100bn to keep (consumer) energy bills where they are.

And cut taxes while raising defence and social care spending.

Anyone else see a flaw in this plan?

According to t'internet, in April 2022 the UK was £2,347 billion in dept. Whats another 100bn? its just loose change. :-(

 

[IanSuth]

Reports are that the Government will borrow - not guarantee - £100bn to keep (consumer) energy bills where they are.

And cut taxes while raising defence and social care spending.

Anyone else see a flaw in this plan?

Yeah

They will actually tell us they are increasing social care when they aren't (I would guess the budget increase will be more than swallowed by care home increased heating bills let alone the payrises so the care workers can heat and eat). Defence will be similar, budget rise will be less than inflationary rises in costs for current orders/needs/troop salaries.

Anyone know what the MOD spends on fuel and energy costs each year ? Barracks don't heat themselves and a challenger2 does under 1 mpg on road/track let alone off.

 

[MBE2017]

Well the UK Government is currently raking in £4-5 billion IHT per month, so every little helps.

 

[OMGVape]

Well the UK Government is currently raking in £4-5 billion IHT per month, so every little helps.

That’s good to know.

 

[WaveJumper]

Yeah

They will actually tell us they are increasing social care when they aren't (I would guess the budget increase will be more than swallowed by care home increased heating bills let alone the payrises so the care workers can heat and eat). Defence will be similar, budget rise will be less than inflationary rises in costs for current orders/needs/troop salaries.

Anyone know what the MOD spends on fuel and energy costs each year ? Barracks don't heat themselves and a challenger2 does under 1 mpg on road/track let alone off.

if you really want to make your eyes water check out how much fuel our two new aircraft carriers need. and pretty embarrassing when the latest left port last week to join the US fleet for manoeuvres only to breakdown in the Solent. Can the UK get anything right

 

[MBE2017]

Typical woman, only been PM for a day or two and just spent more money than Boris managed throughout the whole of covid.

Anyone grateful bills to be capped at £2.5k pa for two years?

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

Typical woman, only been PM for a day or two and just spent more money than Boris managed throughout the whole of covid.

Anyone grateful bills to be capped at £2.5k pa for two years?

Two years for residential.... only 6 months for businesses.

 

[fisicx]

Anyone grateful bills to be capped at £2.5k pa for two years?

If my bills are less than this do I get the difference from Mrs Hernia Support?

 

[IanSuth]

If my bills are less than this do I get the difference from Mrs Hernia Support?

I am still fixed until Oct 23 at a much lower level i'm with you in that.

I am more concerned about this plan to give renewable suppliers a fixed supply side contract for multi year (15 i heard mention), last time they did things like that is why my mum is being paid 54p per unit feed in for the spare power from her panels.

Either you believe in the market in which case let it do it's work

or

you recognise power is actually a natural monopoly so totally control it by a single entity

Dithering in the middle creates multiple inefficiencies and therefore additional costs for all (on average)

 

[OMGVape]

So theoretically, my elecric bill could go up and up until it gets to £2500/year.

And at that point my little one-man business will be paying the same as the huge factory next door?

 

[MBE2017]

So theoretically, my elecric bill could go up and up until it gets to £2500/year.

And at that point my little one-man business will be paying the same as the huge factory next door?

No, your business tariff will get a similar relief using a similar formulae. All green taxes on the energy bills suspended during this period, so the true cost is a fair bit higher to the consumer, that is £2.5k pa after green subsidies are removed.

 

[UKSBD]

So theoretically, my elecric bill could go up and up until it gets to £2500/year.

The £2,500 figure is just used as an example and doesn't mean anything.

The important thing is the price per kwh cap rate which is currently about 28p

The new rate will be about 36p per kwh

Edit to add: Domestic rate

 

[IanSuth]

The £2,500 figure is just used as an example and doesn't mean anything.

The important thing is the price per kwh cap rate which is currently about 28p

The new rate will be about 36p per kwh

Edit to add: Domestic rate

Did they give any kind of idea as what would happen if a company has signed a fixed rate contract already which ends up being above the business tariff cap ?

Will the company be contractually bound still or will the supplier need to drop the rate or did liz's team not actually think that far ?

 

[UKSBD]

Did they give any kind of idea as what would happen if a company has signed a fixed rate contract already which ends up being above the business tariff cap ?

Will the company be contractually bound still or will the supplier need to drop the rate or did liz's team not actually think that far ?

I haven't seen anything about commercial / business rates yet

But for domestic it looks like they will allow you to move to the supplier's standard rate even if you have recently fixed at a higher rate.

They haven't actually published the support for businesses yet

[Withdrawn] Energy Price Guarantee from 1 July 2023

www.gov.uk

 

[MarketGarden]

Did they give any kind of idea as what would happen if a company has signed a fixed rate contract already which ends up being above the business tariff cap ?

Will the company be contractually bound still or will the supplier need to drop the rate or did liz's team not actually think that far ?

My question exactly and I spoke to Octopus Business today and they said this is "not yet clear" and the gov had provided suppliers with no further details beyond what is out there in the media. I was due to enter a fixed 3 year deal with them on Saturday at 50p per unit. I am currently on a variable rate tarrif so if it turns out the cap only applies to that and is considerably lower than 50p, I may well be better off sticking with the (capped) variable rate. I pleaded with them to let me delay while some clarity emerges and, to their credit, they've given me up to 2 weeks to decide if I want to commit to them.

 

[HouseReno]

i really do think a lot of people and businesses are going to struggle, although everyone needs to remebe the money that the government ius giving us that wil be crucial for some people.

 

[LandlordsFirst]

Typical woman, only been PM for a day or two and just spent more money than Boris managed throughout the whole of covid.

Anyone grateful bills to be capped at £2.5k pa for two years?

This is the thing, fact is, bills are still extortionate and unjust, but they're trying to get away with the fact that we are being done over.

Whether people want to admit or not, Westminster is right now as corrupt as they come. They lobby and push narratives for backhanders which they try and hide, but with a simple bit of digging their offshore and hidden assets are found. Wikileaks, Paradise Papers, Panama Papers, insider trading, they look at us like we are stupid, and tbh can you blame them now? Happens all the time and we just go "oh again, not surprised". If majority understood how much their corruption actually costs us and affects our standard of living, their heads would be on stakes. But, unfortunately, they put a lot of effort into their bs and people are working their backsides off to keep afloat, so don't have the energy (excuse the pun).

UK Law is common law, common being the operative word. This illusion they are exempt from the rule of law has to change! Parliamentary sovereignty was granted, but that seems to have been forgotten, or actually learned. It was granted based on what's best for the common people, but its now being used to quite literally kill us. We need to start asking some deeper questions, such as "who gave you the right to charge us for air and water?"

Fact is, its upto us to do something to save ourselves as most of those k..bs in parliament aren't going to. Lies, middle fingers to protestors, no opposition, sod the lot of them.

 

[NickGrogan]

This is the thing, fact is, bills are still extortionate and unjust, but they're trying to get away with the fact that we are being done over.

Whether people want to admit or not, Westminster is right now as corrupt as they come. They lobby and push narratives for backhanders which they try and hide, but with a simple bit of digging their offshore and hidden assets are found. Wikileaks, Paradise Papers, Panama Papers, insider trading, they look at us like we are stupid, and tbh can you blame them now? Happens all the time and we just go "oh again, not surprised". If majority understood how much their corruption actually costs us and affects our standard of living, their heads would be on stakes. But, unfortunately, they put a lot of effort into their bs and people are working their backsides off to keep afloat, so don't have the energy (excuse the pun).

UK Law is common law, common being the operative word. This illusion they are exempt from the rule of law has to change! Parliamentary sovereignty was granted, but that seems to have been forgotten, or actually learned. It was granted based on what's best for the common people, but its now being used to quite literally kill us. We need to start asking some deeper questions, such as "who gave you the right to charge us for air and water?"

Fact is, its upto us to do something to save ourselves as most of those k..bs in parliament aren't going to. Lies, middle fingers, no opposition, sod the lot of them.

Interesting point of view. How much should energy cost?

"who gave you the right to charge us for air and water?"

Who gave anyone the right to charge for land or a place to live?

 

[Newchodge]

Who gave anyone the right to charge for land or a place to live?

Finally, someone understands. Land ownership is theft. The land was taken by force and its current owners are handling stolen goods.

 

[OMGVape]

Land ownership is theft. The land was taken by force and its current owners are handling stolen goods.

Taken from who ?

 

[Newchodge]

Taken from who ?

From those who occupied it.

 

[simon field]

From those who occupied it.

Does occupation = ownership?

 

[fisicx]

From those who occupied it.

Does squatting mean ownership? If I park my caravan in your drive does this mean I own your drive?

 

[Newchodge]

Does occupation = ownership?

No, because, before the land was stolen, none of the occupiers had any concept of land ownership. look at what happened to the original occupiers in Australia and the US. Exactly the same thing happened here, just a lot longer ago.

 

[BobzYourUncle]

Does anyone know what the price cap will be for businesses per kWh? I read that it will be same as household. But can't find figures for that either?

 

[Talay]

My residential electric bill was £1700 a year until Symbio went bust. As an ex trader, I am a little perturbed at how energy companies go bust as in theory, they should simply be playing a margin game with all risk offset.

However, they moved me to E.on Next and a prospective £6000 electric bill. That then went up to £7800 and was latterly estimated to be over £12000 when I last looked. Today it is back down to £4764 with rates of 33.68p / 17.26p and 43.48p a day standing charge. Usage at 16139kWh.

However, in business I have gas rates capped out to late 2025 at 1.8p to 2.6p with various standing charges. I have some electric fixed in the 15/17p range and some new ones fixed last month for 35-45p per kWh. In 2015 it was 7/8p per kWh.

So my forward electric in business is up 200% minimum and likely 300% once some others come off contract and my gas would be over 30p per kWh so I'm facing gas price rises of 1000% to 1500%.

Clearly, this is not viable.

 

[NickGrogan]

none of the occupiers had any concept of land ownership. look at what happened to the original occupiers in Australia and the US.

What makes you think that? History suggests otherwise.

 

[MBE2017]

Well, the UK energy market is now competition free, everyone will be paying the same rate, confirmed, apart from the few that took the last few weeks fixed rates offer, their bills will be higher than the fix.

The companies will be trying to contact them to allow no charge exit fees onto the new std cap rate, most have agreed, at least until mid November. So if you fixed just recently check if you should change. Those on variable deals or fixed a while back don’t have to do anything.

 

[UKSBD]

Well, the UK energy market is now competition free, everyone will be paying the same rate, confirmed, apart from the few that took the last few weeks fixed rates offer, their bills will be higher than the fix.

I fixed in March, about 6p kwh lower than the new cap (electricity)

 

[MBE2017]

I fixed in March, about 6p kwh lower than the new cap (electricity)

Well done, yours won’t get reduced, but you will still be paying less.

 

[UKSBD]

Anyone on a fixed rate below 34p kwh will stay on their existing rate

Anyone between 34p and 51p will go on the 34p rate

Anyone paying over 52p will get their rate reduced by 17p

Those on a fixed rate over 52p can ask their supplier to move them from the fixed rate to the standard, most suppliers are going to allow this

(Domestic, electric)