Rising energy costs

[MBE2017]

They started doing it in Aylesbury when I lived near there a few years ago.

But I took "main roads" to refer to trunk routes and motorways. They don't need to be lit all the time, but I haven't been on many in the wee hours recently to know what the situation is.

That was my meaning, but unless there is a real safety issue, most could be switched off, plus tens of thousands of office lights etc.

 

[WaveJumper]

That was my meaning, but unless there is a real safety issue, most could be switched off, plus tens of thousands of office lights etc.

For quite sometime now in Essex we've had 'part night street lights' as its called and they are witched off between 1am and 5am except at major road junctions, roundabouts etc

 

[Deleted member 348872]

I see all the talk of handouts to help with these price rises but have i missed plans on long term solutions? Wasn't there talk a few years ago about having to make a decision on Building new nuclear power stations? what got me though is they would be mainly funded by the foreign owned power companies like edf. Like they aren't going to get their money back and more. Its clear we are at the mercy of multiple other countries and need to become more self sufficient. We are paying high prices for grain, feed, fertiliser yet i watch clarkson making £90 for a years work farming. Crazy. Nationalise power companies, trains etc and put any limited profit into improvements rather than satisfying share holders.

 

[Jeff FV]

For quite sometime now in Essex we've had 'part night street lights' as its called and they are witched off between 1am and 5am except at major road junctions, roundabouts etc

Years ago, I left university with a first class honours degree in aeronautical engineering.

I loved thermodynamics and the gas turbine engine was an open book to me. I could calculate the stress and strain in any structure and tell you where, and under what load, it would fail. I was able to analyse the laminar flow over an airfoil section and recognise when it became turbulent.

But, to me, anything electronic or electrical was sorcery. Some may think you made a typo above, but I disagree. “…. they are witched off between 1am and 5 am …” never a truer word spoken!

 

[DontAsk]

Nationalise ... and put any limited profit into improvements rather than satisfying share holders.

Yeah, like that's going to happen.

Why do you think the privatised water companies have had to spend so much, and still have problems with leakage. Nationalisation would not solve anything.

 

[Newchodge]

Yeah, like that's going to happen.

Why do you think the privatised water companies have had to spend so much, and still have problems with leakage. Nationalisation would not solve anything.

Possibly because of the £57 billion paid out to shareholders since privatisation in 1991? This amounts, apparently, to nearly half of the sum spent on maintenance and repairs, to little effect. Privatisation allegedly occurred because of the need for huge investment to modernise the national water system. so investors shoul.d have been aware that they would not get huge returns ubtil that modernisation had been achieved.

 

[IanSuth]

Well i am now sat here having just hung up the phone to Thames Water - there is a 8 inch high fountain on the verge of the footpath i can see from my study. They have confirmed it must be the 6 inch main that has burst - the response time to even come out and turn off the valves....

5 to 8 hours !!!!

How much water is that ! I can walk to the TW HQ 4 miles away collect a tool and walk back in half that time (but i wont as it is near Reading Festival site and full of 18 year olds partying large)

 

[Deleted member 348872]

No Surprise. I was more surprised being charged £38 for fish and chips last night. I won't be buying again anytime soon and they are yet to face the upcoming rises if not locked in. I can see many a chip shop closing.

 

[Newchodge]

No Surprise. I was more surprised being charged £38 for fish and chips last night. I won't be buying again anytime soon and they are yet to face the upcoming rises if not locked in. I can see many a chip shop closing.

For how many servings?

 

[IanSuth]

For how many servings?

4 i hope

 

[Newchodge]

4 i hope

That's only £9.50 each, whch is not that excessive!

 

[IanSuth]

That's only £9.50 each, whch is not that excessive!

That is why i said "I hope" as that is about the cost around here

 

[NickGrogan]

I see all the talk of handouts to help with these price rises but have i missed plans on long term solutions? Wasn't there talk a few years ago about having to make a decision on Building new nuclear power stations? what got me though is they would be mainly funded by the foreign owned power companies like edf. Like they aren't going to get their money back and more. Its clear we are at the mercy of multiple other countries and need to become more self sufficient. We are paying high prices for grain, feed, fertiliser yet i watch clarkson making £90 for a years work farming. Crazy. Nationalise power companies, trains etc and put any limited profit into improvements rather than satisfying share holders.

It takes too long to build anything like this in the UK, everyone wants the benefits but not in their backyard.

Hinckley was given the go ahead in 2008, it should go live in 2028, but I doubt it will.

Politicians don't like things that take 20+ years to do, so they don't get done.

 

[japancool]

Maybe it was very, very posh fish & chips.

 

[NickGrogan]

An earlier proposal for a Hinkley Point C power station was made by the Central Electricity Generating Board (CEGB) in the 1980s for a sister power station to Sizewell B, using the same pressurised water reactor design, at a cost of £1.7 billion.

This proposal obtained planning permission in 1990 following a public enquiry but was dropped as uneconomic in the early 1990s when the electric power industry was privatised and low interest rate government finance was no longer available.

 

[japancool]

An earlier proposal for a Hinkley Point C power station was made by the Central Electricity Generating Board (CEGB) in the 1980s for a sister power station to Sizewell B, using the same pressurised water reactor design, at a cost of £1.7 billion.

This proposal obtained planning permission in 1990 following a public enquiry but was dropped as uneconomic in the early 1990s when the electric power industry was privatised and low interest rate government finance was no longer available.

Wasn't there an issue with Hinkley Point C being funded by Chinese companies?

 

[NickGrogan]

Wasn't there an issue with Hinkley Point C being funded by Chinese companies?

I think thats the current project, not the earlier one

 

[IanSuth]

Well i am now sat here having just hung up the phone to Thames Water - there is a 8 inch high fountain on the verge of the footpath i can see from my study. They have confirmed it must be the 6 inch main that has burst - the response time to even come out and turn off the valves....

5 to 8 hours !!!!

How much water is that ! I can walk to the TW HQ 4 miles away collect a tool and walk back in half that time (but i wont as it is near Reading Festival site and full of 18 year olds partying large)

only 3.5hrs and the water has been switched off - now a bunch of head scratching whilst they wonder how to repair it

 

[IanSuth]

only 3.5hrs and the water has been switched off - now a bunch of head scratching whilst they wonder how to repair it

Edit - not switched off, just down to a flow like a couple of hosepipes

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I have the solution...
There are roughly 40 million adults in UK.
If the Government took £40 million and invested in an index tracker, 1 million for each adult, that'd give a basic income for all adults which, on top of earnings, would help pay for the extra energy costs...
And at a price considerably less than the current benefits bill...
Who'll vote for me as PM...?

 

[MarkOnline]

I have the solution...
There are roughly 40 million adults in UK.
If the Government took £40 million and invested in an index tracker, 1 million for each adult, that'd give a basic income for all adults which, on top of earnings, would help pay for the extra energy costs...
And at a price considerably less than the current benefits bill...
Who'll vote for me as PM...?

No I want a Prime Minister who can do his 40 million times tables.

 

[japancool]

There are roughly 40 million adults in UK.
If the Government took £40 million and invested in an index tracker, 1 million for each adult,

Well, £40 million is £1 per adult, not £1 million per adult. £1 million per adult would be £40 TRILLION.

I'll vote for you for PM, but not for Chancellor...

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I was just testing you guys...

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Well, £40 million is £1 per adult, not £1 million per adult. £1 million per adult would be £40 TRILLION.

I'll vote for you for PM, but not for Chancellor...

I would've thought the inability to add would be a perfect qualification for Chancellor

 

[MBE2017]

I reckon Annoying Donkey is actually working in the treasury right now. He certainly uses their calculator.

 

[BobzYourUncle]

Newbie here.. So I'm small business owner trading over 20 years now. I've never seen it so bad in terms of business operating cost. Never felt so squeezed financially. 4 months ago our electric was up for renewal.. that has doubled to average of 30p kwh. £300 monthly is now £525 approx. 90% or so increase Fixed for 3 years as 1 year was 40p kwh. Gas renewal we did this 2 month ago will kick in end of sept 10p
kwh. Typical £300 monthly will be £900 per month i 300% increase. Had to fix it for 2 years because 1 year would have been 400% increase.. so now we faced with energy bill of over £300 for energy per week... We on flat rate Vat scheme of 12.5% as we dont make over £3k per week. Flat rate Scheme means we can't claim Vat back from energy bills or from stock. So the more we pay for energy the more money the government is taking or making from our misery. We can't put our prices up to recoup the extra cost as we are price sensitive especially the area we are in too. On top of stock going up more than 50%. This is much worse than the pandemic. I realise after reading some of the threads here that gas and electric have gone up even further than what I had fixed 3 months ago. I'm moaning with those so gawd knows how those coming up for renewal in the next few months are going to do.. on the current average business renewals I've seen we would probably not bother opening. Would be like we are working for the energy companies what's the point. I've been having sleepless nights wondering if I have done the right thing fixing.. and dont get me started with Liz Truss 5% Vat cut. That isnt going to make a dent or be anything meaningful to get us out of a hole.. sorry I just had to vent a bit with how frustrated Iam and i get customers giving me crap on us putting prices up

 

[Newchodge]

Newbie here.. So I'm small business owner trading over 20 years now. I've never seen it so bad in terms of business operating cost. Never felt so squeezed financially. 4 months ago our electric was up for renewal.. that has doubled to average of 30p kwh. £300 monthly is now £525 approx. 90% or so increase Fixed for 3 years as 1 year was 40p kwh. Gas renewal we did this 2 month ago will kick in end of sept 10p
kwh. Typical £300 monthly will be £900 per month i 300% increase. Had to fix it for 2 years because 1 year would have been 400% increase.. so now we faced with energy bill of over £300 for energy per week... We on flat rate Vat scheme of 12.5% as we dont make over £3k per week. Flat rate Scheme means we can't claim Vat back from energy bills or from stock. So the more we pay for energy the more money the government is taking or making from our misery. We can't put our prices up to recoup the extra cost as we are price sensitive especially the area we are in too. On top of stock going up more than 50%. This is much worse than the pandemic. I realise after reading some of the threads here that gas and electric have gone up even further than what I had fixed 3 months ago. I'm moaning with those so gawd knows how those coming up for renewal in the next few months are going to do.. on the current average business renewals I've seen we would probably not bother opening. Would be like we are working for the energy companies what's the point. I've been having sleepless nights wondering if I have done the right thing fixing.. and dont get me started with Liz Truss 5% Vat cut. That isnt going to make a dent or be anything meaningful to get us out of a hole.. sorry I just had to vent a bit with how frustrated Iam and i get customers giving me crap on us putting prices up

Have you done the calculations on whether you would be better off coming out of the Flat rate scheme?

 

[BobzYourUncle]

Have you done the calculations on whether you would be better off coming out of the Flat rate scheme?

Yeah we have but because of the nature of our trade we can only claim back packaging and energy VAT back. But we can't claim on food stock purchases which makes up bulk of the stock we buy in. Flat rate still works out better for us. We considering opening shorter hours and shutting weekdays and unfortunately will have to replace 2 full time staff to 2 part time staff. Do bulk of the prep work in the early hours as that is when electric is cheaper. Getting staff on early hours might be hard and costly. If energy vat was 5% and not have to pay Climate levy would help us keep afloat.

 

[WaveJumper]

No Surprise. I was more surprised being charged £38 for fish and chips last night. I won't be buying again anytime soon and they are yet to face the upcoming rises if not locked in. I can see many a chip shop closing.

This in the news today

Energy bills could break firms, warns ex-chancellor

Alistair Darling says the new prime minister must quickly take "bold action" to help with soaring costs.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[WaveJumper]

Edit - not switched off, just down to a flow like a couple of hosepipes

There was a water leak in a road near me, water has been pouring down the road since the end of May. I was so sick to death of getting emails from Anglia Water telling me 'every drop counts' I got in touch in June and asked when are they going to deal with this leak. The said they was aware but I had to realise as it was on a busy road they had to think of the safety and welfare of their workers but it will be sorted by July. of course it was not. So I spoke to them again, August they said, they actually started work to fix it yesterday. Unbelievable. Good luck with yours but remember every drop counts.

 

[simon field]

There was a water leak in a road near me, water has been pouring down the road since the end of May. I was so sick to death of getting emails from Anglia Water telling me 'every drop counts' I got in touch in June and asked when are they going to deal with this leak. The said they was aware but I had to realise as it was on a busy road they had to think of the safety and welfare of their workers but it will be sorted by July. of course it was not. So I spoke to them again, August they said, they actually started work to fix it yesterday. Unbelievable. Good luck with yours but remember every drop counts.

AW are worse than useless. I argued with them for months about our water supply. They insisted we couldn’t possibly have a water supply, as they didn’t have any record of it. So we had 12 years without a single water bill, and then another six months paid for by their patheticness! ?

 

[Not a subway]

Yeah we have but because of the nature of our trade we can only claim back packaging and energy VAT back. But we can't claim on food stock purchases which makes up bulk of the stock we buy in. Flat rate still works out better for us. We considering opening shorter hours and shutting weekdays and unfortunately will have to replace 2 full time staff to 2 part time staff. Do bulk of the prep work in the early hours as that is when electric is cheaper. Getting staff on early hours might be hard and costly. If energy vat was 5% and not have to pay Climate levy would help us keep afloat.

I don't think that even zero VAT would help the way prices are going.
Profit per unit is roughly £500 per week. Electricity was £800 per month now nearly £4000 per month. Even with zero VAT we can't break even.

 

[BobzYourUncle]

I don't think that even zero VAT would help the way prices are going.
Profit per unit is roughly £500 per week. Electricity was £800 per month now nearly £4000 per month. Even with zero VAT we can't break even.

You have my sympathy. We are literally the only shop that has not had a change in ownership in the last 6 months in my line of business. All the rest have sold their leases cheaply to some poor unsuspecting tenant. Our only saving grace is not having to pay rent. Our saved up contingency isnt going to last long at this rate. I'm literally doing a plan A plan B plan C. Our nuclear option is to shut shop for 1 year and start again when things settle down. But I really dont want to go down that road. I would rather try and ride it out. But I fear it's not just a recession we are heading in for but more like the great depression. I'm just trying to reset my brain as best I can with the situation doing alot of forward looking and not backward thinking.. so hard to stay positive. Do you have any plans going forward ?

 

[Not a subway]

You have my sympathy. We are literally the only shop that has not had a change in ownership in the last 6 months in my line of business. All the rest have sold their leases cheaply to some poor unsuspecting tenant. Our only saving grace is not having to pay rent. Our saved up contingency isnt going to last long at this rate. I'm literally doing a plan A plan B plan C. Our nuclear option is to shut shop for 1 year and start again when things settle down. But I really dont want to go down that road. I would rather try and ride it out. But I fear it's not just a recession we are heading in for but more like the great depression. I'm just trying to reset my brain as best I can with the situation doing alot of forward looking and not backward thinking.. so hard to stay positive. Do you have any plans going forward ?

I agree that we are going into a depression rather than a recession. The next 3 years will be very testing for most businesses.
Small businesses will not be able to pull through. Pubs and restaurants will most likely get decimated as will fast food places and convenience stores which have a lot of refrigeration or air conditioning/heating.
I personally don't have many contingencies. The only reprieve that I have is being mortgage free and having enough savings to see me through for a few years. Will have to tighten the belt a bit though.
The government won't do much. Even if it gives people rates grants like they did with covid, it will only prong the agony for a few months. A lot of people will just take the money and close.

 

[IanSuth]

Edit - not switched off, just down to a flow like a couple of hosepipes

A guy in a mini digger turned up Fri evening, scratched around for 20 minutes breaking the nice little dam the guy on foot had made to ensure the water ran down 1 side of the footpath and then stood around smoking for a while before leaving (no doubt after claiming for a Fri night of overtime).

Yesterday they arrived at 9am, faffed for 40 minutes then set to work, after 10 mins of actual digging they installed a noisy pump, an hour later they looked in the now dry hole, scratched their heads and drove away ( guys on a bank hol Monday)

The hole refilled and the flow of water is now at c5 hosepipes and still going strong with the entire footpath covered to a depth of 6 inches by the side of my house.

Glad there is no water shortage with the amount flowing away here

 

[BobzYourUncle]

I agree that we are going into a depression rather than a recession. The next 3 years will be very testing for most businesses.
Small businesses will not be able to pull through. Pubs and restaurants will most likely get decimated as will fast food places and convenience stores which have a lot of refrigeration or air conditioning/heating.
I personally don't have many contingencies. The only reprieve that I have is being mortgage free and having enough savings to see me through for a few years. Will have to tighten the belt a bit though.
The government won't do much. Even if it gives people rates grants like they did with covid, it will only prong the agony for a few months. A lot of people will just take the money and close.

My stockman has been seeing the down turn more rapid in the last 2 months. We had a big discussion on it yesterday. Every order he receives now, regulars that normally have pretty much standard orders, week in week out. Are reducing as much as 30%-40% general slackness and inconsistency in weekly takings from businesses where normally they have solid takings. Hes worried on his own business being a warehouse refrigeration chiller rooms, large refrigerated van. Aswell as farmers telling him fertilizers, energy cost, chicken feed, crop failures due to adverse weather are all impacting supply. Hes giving me hints of more inflation on goods to come. Hes having sleepless nights too. Our high street is looking a bit thin only 1 pub left in the village. 2 hairdressers used to be 6 (4 women, 2 barbers) 2 tattoo shops closed down, 1 chippie shut, furniture shop closed, bed shop. Local bakers are saying they may have to shut feb next year. Most shops here aren't renewing their rent renewals when the time comes. Maybe high streets in more affluent areas will weather this crisis out better than the rest.

 

[Not a subway]

My stockman has been seeing the down turn more rapid in the last 2 months. We had a big discussion on it yesterday. Every order he receives now, regulars that normally have pretty much standard orders, week in week out. Are reducing as much as 30%-40% general slackness and inconsistency in weekly takings from businesses where normally they have solid takings. Hes worried on his own business being a warehouse refrigeration chiller rooms, large refrigerated van. Aswell as farmers telling him fertilizers, energy cost, chicken feed, crop failures due to adverse weather are all impacting supply. Hes giving me hints of more inflation on goods to come. Hes having sleepless nights too. Our high street is looking a bit thin only 1 pub left in the village. 2 hairdressers used to be 6 (4 women, 2 barbers) 2 tattoo shops closed down, 1 chippie shut, furniture shop closed, bed shop. Local bakers are saying they may have to shut feb next year. Most shops here aren't renewing their rent renewals when the time comes. Maybe high streets in more affluent areas will weather this crisis out better than the rest.

I saw the signs as soon as the government announced furlough and guaranteed non status bank loans. I knew just then that this is not going to turn out too well.
Just saw a post on twitter that a pub got quoted 97p per unit. Yikes!
Most of the businesses that you mentioned would have closed at the meanest hint of a recession, hairdressers, tattoo parlours, boutique businesses in working class areas. Not really sustainable.
More affluent areas, as you mentioned, will be better off but it all depends on how much is local trade and how much is from people passing through.

 

[SillyBill]

We jumped in today at 72p kwh (day rate) for a new contract starting 1st March next year, £138k increase a year. I am more worried about the viability of a lot of businesses than I have been in any recession ever now; we don't do business in a vacuum so even being immune to our own bill doesn't mean we won't have to deal with the consequences of severely reduced demand, bad debts, late payments etc. I feel for anyone who has a good business they're having to close because of this and there will be a lot. For me now, I am just relieved to know what I will be paying as the uncertainty of watching things going up and up was getting unsettling.

 

[OMGVape]

We jumped in today at 72p kwh (day rate) for a new contract starting 1st March next year, £138k increase a year.

Are you able to pull out if this energy situation has been turned around by then?

 

[SillyBill]

Are you able to pull out if this energy situation has been turned around by then?

Doubt it, no exit from business contracts so far as I am aware. Been stuck between a rock and a hard place, one supplier who would offer to supply us in the end, damned if you do (fix), damned if you don't (potentially insane prices off contract). I am expecting to be royally screwed courtesy of timings of renewal, electricity is now a lottery of when you happen to be coming off a tariff. I don't really see how government can target support either, I know companies who through good fortune fixed for 2-3 years a few months ago, what looked pricey then now looks like a steal compared to what I will be paying. How does the government differentiate between them and the companies having to arrange deals between now and middle of next year who will be paying multiples of the former, potentially for years? It is so circumstantial at present. So it doesn't, wholly inclusive intitiates like VAT. I have to look at the other side of the coin though too, my current energy supplier will have been losing money hand over fist for a year or so on my current contract until expiry so I will be returning the favour to another supplier I am sure when invariably prices turn and I am still on this tariff!