Recruiting at minimum wage level
- Thread starter ManagerMellis
- Start date
Unless a) other costs (such as taxes) come down and b) supply can keep up with demand.
The former can, in theory happen if the welfare budget comes down, and individuals are paying more tax due to higher wages (rather than higher tax rates).
The latter...
Upvote
0
Probably but how i define legal and illegal in at least a civil context is my choice not the states.
I value my autonomy dearly and am more than prepared to go to virtually any lengths to protect it from all them corrupt bastards in London.
I didnt ask for 2 years of nationwide furlough , i didn't ask for 25 billion to be gifted a tory ministers mistress for a track and trace system that was set up on Microsoft excel or for billions worth of PPE contracts to be ponied out to tory friendly contractors
I'll be dammed if i am now paying for it out of my own pocket
You would do very well to understand the state does not have your best interests at heart .
Some have very short memories.
Upvote
0
The economy was never going to be better , we are a small service country that imports virtually everything and requires a migrant workforce that will do our dirty work for peanuts
I have absolutely how anyone with two brain cells thought we would be better on our own
Upvote
0
If we don't have and can't get the migrant workforce to work for peanuts, then we either start to value the jobs or find ways to improve productivity to make the jobs worthwhile. Or sit on our hands and wallow in self-pity.
This increases the value of the economy and therefore improves life for everyone.
Do you think there are no cleaners in Scandinavia?
Upvote
0
You might have been missold, but many others weren't.
It's a short list of benefits related to the OP post.
Are you against:
Higher wages for UK staff?
Higher wages for European staff in their own country?
Improved productivity for UK businesses?
Upvote
0
Do you think anyone actually cared what the so called ‘experts’ thought? That’s quite funny!
Nah, people in this country just like aggro, they love upsetting the apple cart, giving the snobby elites a good punch on the nose!
How very dare they, eh?
Upvote
0
In a service led economy where we import more than we export the net effect will always be detrimental.
I f i look hard enough I can find the correct chapter in Begg, Fischer & Dornbush the yr1 economics textbok that covers it and is still sat in my loft.
Basically the economic effect of the lowered efficiency and international competitiveness in the market will be shared out between the populace through the medium of higher prices -( that is ignoring any external factors like raised international energy prices which are another seperate inflationary factor but one unconnected to Brexit or anything the uk can do)
Drone wages going up due to shortage of labour supply will in anything other than the very short term lead to a greater % in goods inflation than in labour inflation.
The reason the BofE called for pay restraint is because they don't want to start a spiral of people chasing goods inflation and thus pushing it up higher
Upvote
0
T
The Byre
ONS figures -
Total exports of goods £340.2
Total imports of goods £504.7
Services have a £10bn surplus.
Now do you see just how serious the problem has become?
Full figures here - https://assets.publishing.service.g...data/file/1053856/OTS_2021_Annual_Summary.pdf
Upvote
0
Oh dear, do you think the people voted to leave because they care about the UK economy? That the average voter cares either way about the Economy, rather than their own personal situation.
Economic experts predicted the end of boom and bust and completely failed to predict the 2008 crash, or 2012 and they are lying or wrong about the one that is happening right now.
The Bank of England Feb 22
"We expect inflation to rise further to around 7% in the spring.
After that, we expect inflation to fall.
One reason for that is that we think the impact of higher oil and gas prices will fade."
Bank of England November 21
"We expect inflation to rise to around 5% in the spring next year. We expect these high rates of inflation to be temporary. "
We are currently pretending that inflation is at 10.1%, but anyone who has bought anything knows that's wrong.
In my post above I mention 3 groups - which one hasn't/won't benefitted economically?
Remain campaigned on the Economy and it's why they lost. Fine by me if you want to keep beating the same drum.
Upvote
0
Upvote
0
Taking countries like Sweden and Norway there is not an awful lot worthy of peer reviewing against IMO as the conditions are so different vs large population industralised countries. Sweden has a population equivalent to that of London on a landmass 85% bigger than the U.K. That in itself from its culture to its economy is going to create a different beast. Natural resources per head for these sorts of countries, if nothing else is favourable; extreme example but 5M Norwegians have won the lottery of life with their oil & gas relative to their tiny population, a well over trillion dollar sovereign pension fund divided between them. My ex in another life is Swedish, now lives back in Gothenburg, I was always resistant to living there (a large part of the reason we split up) despite admiring the country/people, it felt so quaint compared to the hussle and bussle of the U.K. You can see exactly why education flourishes in these countries though where fewer people can slip between the cracks and the State can give a wholesome targeted education, compare & contrast to France/UK etc. (or even big city USA) with huge inner city populations where the State barely can keep track of who is even there, let alone deliver an education to them. Perhaps misguided but I think the Scandanavian model as an export globally is unrealistic, works due to the unique characteristics of those nations. Not to say it shouldn't be applauded though, I am always thoroughly impressed with any visit to those countries.
Upvote
0
I could have sworn you have used that one before, albeit perhaps I'm discrediting your wit by confusing you with another tiresome contributor.
I know it is tricky, but having the self-discipline to ignore my posts (rather than post inane replies) if you're not intending to dismantle my arguments with reasoned debate, might actually save the rest of the forum from reading pointless exchanges between us. Not the first time, and perhaps other posters find them as tedious as I do.
Upvote
0
T
The Byre
Yes, you can't compare a dynamic thrusting modern society like the UK with small, rural countries like Germany and Holland. It is easy for those countries to prevent their poorer citizens from falling through the cracks because they know where people live and can ensure that all are cared for.
A small country like Germany can easily provide health care that has almost no waiting times for treatment and do so for about the same cost as the NHS because they have all - no, can't think of what they have. No oil, like the UK. No North Sea gas like the UK. Wind power has turned into a dud in low-wind Germany. And of course, Germany only has some 3.5 registered refugees plus a further 1m Ukrainians and a further 12m foreign nationals.
Norway was not the biggest winner - that honour goes to the UK - Scotland in particular. There was a wealth fund - but it was sold off for £400m by Thatcher. Today's value is estimated at £2tn - that's two trillion! That £400m was largely swallowed up by the costs of the redundancies and other social costs involved when turning the UK from a manufacturing economy into a service economy.
It's a good job we have all those high-paid service jobs like waiters and cooks, Uber drivers and call-centre operators, shelf stackers and van drivers.
Or it could be that some countries have a functioning bureaucracy, know where people live and have social care systems and health systems that work. They also use tariff systems that govern pay rates for the various industries and encourage manufacturing and have proper career structures for the trades, which can take an apprentice all the way from the first steps at 16 to getting a Ph.D. in that subject.
The UK is a great country - but it has created a way of life that seems largely founded on the principles of muddling through. And muddling through in today's world no longer works!
Upvote
0
Sorry, I've just come back to this and I'm a bit shocked as to how you've reacted @NickGrogan. It appears everyone except you has seen it as the flippant, mildly humorous comment it was meant to be. You've even ignored the mildly humorous point I made "Don't answer that" so we didn't get into exactly this kind of caustic conversation.
@Newchodge Got it right.
"A lot of people who previously held these jobs were from the EU. Many people from the EU have left because of Brexit. There is now a staff shortage. I leave it to you to decide whether there is any causative correlation."
There are lower paid people in every country and society. The 'immigrants' we have (used to have) working here must have a better life and be better off here on a minimum wage otherwise they wouldn't be here. Wouldn't it be lovely if we could all get a decent wage by being paid enough by the employer in the first place. We can't though because product and service pricing is led by the price the consumer is prepared to pay. Get into a deep conversation about this if you want but it's the basic principle starting point.
By the way, the OP has bogged off and never returned. We still didnt find out where he was based in the UK.
Upvote
0
But there you go @NickGrogan, made by cheap labour. Exactly the people we lost because of Brexit.
I refer you to my opening comment at the top.
That's me done in this thread. Bye
Upvote
0
The average salary at Apple is $130,000, hardly low.
Assuming you're referring to their suppliers, not Apple then they are based in China, the Czech Republic, Malaysia, Thailand, and South Korea - 4 out of 5 very much not in Europe and not at all the people we lost because of Brexit.
Upvote
0
Great, Which of these economic effects of Brexit are you against:
Higher wages for UK staff?
Higher wages for European staff in their own country?
Improved productivity for UK businesses?
Have a watch
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music that you love, upload original content and share it all with friends, family and the world on YouTube.
youtu.be
Upvote
0
I think too many people like to blame Brexit for fewer EU nationals remaining in the UK. All who were here were invited to stay, plenty moved back to the EU for higher salaries with up and coming economies at the time, such as Poland.
Many others moved to EU nations to be back with friends and family scared by the MSM portrayal of the UK turning into a racist country if it decided to vote leave, even considering to leave was considered enough proof that the UK was becoming right wing racists.
Plenty of EU citizens also decided to stay.
Not a scientific study, but from my experience I have seen no change in attitude from the UK citizens, this is still the most welcoming country and most integrated I have ever been to.
Oh, BTW, I’m not English, I was stopped from joining two schools because of my funny accent when I was young, I was black balled at several golf clubs for not coming from a wealthy family.
I still think the UK is terrific, times have changed, but many want to try to stir trouble where there is hardly any.
It’s strange how admired the UK is worldwide, people beat a path to come here, many come illegally and risk their lives in doing so, yet many born here seen so many faults, and not the reasons to be grateful.
Upvote
0
I have Polish employees and whereas some years ago they nearly all fell into the group of hard working and industrious people willing to go beyond what their UK counterparts would do, irrespective of pay, many of the next generation are as bad as their UK counterparty, in that they are lazy, unreliable and entitled.
No doubt the childhood their parents had was harsher than the benefits driven utopia in the UK but as with UK people, the new generation is a generation of weaklings, feeble and lacking both backbone and moral fibre.
Immigration on this level was economic. I heard figures of 4x to 10x wages in the UK and they could not believe the benefits largesse afforded them. But they worked hard and some are good friends with me today and we continue to work together. Of the younger ones I have hired, not one lasted the course.
They went home because the poor economic conditions which forced them to leave in the first place had improved. Even before Brexit, faced with stupidly high property prices in the UK, many Polish people had started to return. Brexit just gave them another reason to reconsider their future in the UK.
I personally look back to the lunacy of the Bliar government from 1997 which put half the country on tax credits whilst magically creating a million "jobs" to collect this tax and redistribute it. Though not an employer at that time I suspect this helped to push down wages or at least stop their rise because the benefits system, Tax Credits, would pay out on top. Add immigration willing to work for lower pay levels around the same time and there was little impetus for employers to raise wages until forced to do so by a mechanical minimum wage.
I don't agree with minimum wages but I acept it as otherwise people could be exploited beyond acceptability but it does kill all wages in the range 101% to 150% or even 200% of minimum wages, which are held back.
However, we're a generation on since Bliar the Liar came to power with his arsewipe sidekick Gordon "Goldfingers" Broon and still we have the bastard son of Tax Credits in Universal Credit; not too far named from Universal Income is it ? Far easier to change than "some animals are more equal than others" !
Can we pay cleaners, shop counter staff, etc. effectively the current minimum wage people around £15 an hour ? No, we cannot but we might have to and just as the late 1990s saw an opportunity for employers to keep wages low, then the 2020s might go down in history as the decade when all this was reset.
In or around 1997 I was working in a bar where the pay just crept over £2 an hour, it previously being 1.96 or something. There was certainly no shortage of people wanting such a job. According to the Bank of England's inflation calculator, that £2 should now be £5.18 but thanks to the minimum wage, it is now £9.50 or nearly double the inflated figure. An imprecise tool of course but food for thought.
No doubt the childhood their parents had was harsher than the benefits driven utopia in the UK but as with UK people, the new generation is a generation of weaklings, feeble and lacking both backbone and moral fibre.
Immigration on this level was economic. I heard figures of 4x to 10x wages in the UK and they could not believe the benefits largesse afforded them. But they worked hard and some are good friends with me today and we continue to work together. Of the younger ones I have hired, not one lasted the course.
They went home because the poor economic conditions which forced them to leave in the first place had improved. Even before Brexit, faced with stupidly high property prices in the UK, many Polish people had started to return. Brexit just gave them another reason to reconsider their future in the UK.
I personally look back to the lunacy of the Bliar government from 1997 which put half the country on tax credits whilst magically creating a million "jobs" to collect this tax and redistribute it. Though not an employer at that time I suspect this helped to push down wages or at least stop their rise because the benefits system, Tax Credits, would pay out on top. Add immigration willing to work for lower pay levels around the same time and there was little impetus for employers to raise wages until forced to do so by a mechanical minimum wage.
I don't agree with minimum wages but I acept it as otherwise people could be exploited beyond acceptability but it does kill all wages in the range 101% to 150% or even 200% of minimum wages, which are held back.
However, we're a generation on since Bliar the Liar came to power with his arsewipe sidekick Gordon "Goldfingers" Broon and still we have the bastard son of Tax Credits in Universal Credit; not too far named from Universal Income is it ? Far easier to change than "some animals are more equal than others" !
Can we pay cleaners, shop counter staff, etc. effectively the current minimum wage people around £15 an hour ? No, we cannot but we might have to and just as the late 1990s saw an opportunity for employers to keep wages low, then the 2020s might go down in history as the decade when all this was reset.
In or around 1997 I was working in a bar where the pay just crept over £2 an hour, it previously being 1.96 or something. There was certainly no shortage of people wanting such a job. According to the Bank of England's inflation calculator, that £2 should now be £5.18 but thanks to the minimum wage, it is now £9.50 or nearly double the inflated figure. An imprecise tool of course but food for thought.
Upvote
0
You're hitting the nail here; a huge number of our Lazy British youth don't want a job unless it comes with a car a high wage and only 1 day of work a week. They will have a real shock later in life when they can't do FA for themselves whilst a clued-up youngster charges them £100 to fit a light bulbI have Polish employees and whereas some years ago they nearly all fell into the group of hard working and industrious people willing to go beyond what their UK counterparts would do, irrespective of pay, many of the next generation are as bad as their UK counterparty, in that they are lazy, unreliable and entitled.
No doubt the childhood their parents had was harsher than the benefits driven utopia in the UK but as with UK people, the new generation is a generation of weaklings, feeble and lacking both backbone and moral fibre.
Immigration on this level was economic. I heard figures of 4x to 10x wages in the UK and they could not believe the benefits largesse afforded them. But they worked hard and some are good friends with me today and we continue to work together. Of the younger ones I have hired, not one lasted the course.
They went home because the poor economic conditions which forced them to leave in the first place had improved. Even before Brexit, faced with stupidly high property prices in the UK, many Polish people had started to return. Brexit just gave them another reason to reconsider their future in the UK.
I personally look back to the lunacy of the Bliar government from 1997 which put half the country on tax credits whilst magically creating a million "jobs" to collect this tax and redistribute it. Though not an employer at that time I suspect this helped to push down wages or at least stop their rise because the benefits system, Tax Credits, would pay out on top. Add immigration willing to work for lower pay levels around the same time and there was little impetus for employers to raise wages until forced to do so by a mechanical minimum wage.
I don't agree with minimum wages but I acept it as otherwise people could be exploited beyond acceptability but it does kill all wages in the range 101% to 150% or even 200% of minimum wages, which are held back.
However, we're a generation on since Bliar the Liar came to power with his arsewipe sidekick Gordon "Goldfingers" Broon and still we have the bastard son of Tax Credits in Universal Credit; not too far named from Universal Income is it ? Far easier to change than "some animals are more equal than others" !
Can we pay cleaners, shop counter staff, etc. effectively the current minimum wage people around £15 an hour ? No, we cannot but we might have to and just as the late 1990s saw an opportunity for employers to keep wages low, then the 2020s might go down in history as the decade when all this was reset.
In or around 1997 I was working in a bar where the pay just crept over £2 an hour, it previously being 1.96 or something. There was certainly no shortage of people wanting such a job. According to the Bank of England's inflation calculator, that £2 should now be £5.18 but thanks to the minimum wage, it is now £9.50 or nearly double the inflated figure. An imprecise tool of course but food for thought.
Upvote
0
Tally’s point was the second generation of Polish workers are no different to our own youth. Like I mentioned earlier, everyone is so keen to put the UK and it’s people down.
I remember in my youth whilst working for a large International company in Germany, a top manager said the problem with the UK was low salaries not motivating UK workers.
At the time loads of Brits were building in Germany, hence the idea for the TV show Auf Wiedersehen, Pet. The Germans thought the Brits really good hard workers, the big difference was the salaries being double that of the UK. Anyone struggling with workers needs to find out why, people need to work, but don’t necessarily want to. Poor future prospects, bad management, bad pay, there can be a myriad of reasons.
Someone earlier stated we cannot pay £15 hr for cleaners etc. Of course we can, it just atm people do not see the value in that work. It was of course a load of those cleaners that worked with little or no PPE when Covid came along, along with so many other underpaid staff. Yet no one baulks at a manager getting £200k pa whilst the company loses money.
Upvote
0
That may be the case where you live but it’s no so here. Everywhere I go I see young people working hard and getting on in life.
Upvote
0
Latest Articles
-
The Most Dangerous Moment in Business Is When Everything Is Going WellThey Saw It Coming. They Did Nothing. The Lessons Every Business Owner...- Ozzy
- Updated:
-
AI and Your Business: Useful Tool, Not a Magic WandThere is no shortage of noise around artificial intelligence right now...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
-
Companies House WebFiling security incident: what happened, what to check, and what to do nextCompanies House has confirmed that its WebFiling service suffered a...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
-
Spring Budget 2026: A Quiet Update for UK BusinessesChancellor Rachel Reeves delivered the UK’s Spring Statement on 3 March...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
-
Practical Ways to Make Your Small Business More Resilient (Especially When the Unexpected Happens)Running a business means juggling plenty of things you can plan for and...- UKBF Editor
- Updated:
