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Pulling our hair out - REALLY appreciate advice

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Hi

Have been trying to get any sales at all from our online store or enquiries but its been like banging our heads against the wall.

We have http://www.pcplanetsales.co.uk for our computer business where we sell computers, upgrades, components, accessories, laptops and refurbished dell laptops, offer repairs - everything.

We have a site that links to our supplier that is so easy to update the daily changes in pricing via a linked database and just takes 5 minutes a day, so i cannot consider dumping that to set up a different site.

Although the site can have other pages like the home page and and 3 other pages we have at present.

Just can't seem to get many hits and sales and the same for local work on the phone etc.

Its been nearly 2 years although the current site has only been 7 months but always been same web address.

Submitted to loads of free search engines and appear on google, and submitted recently to dmoz.

Have sent out 20,000 leaflets locally and got 3 repair jobs, and a few shop window adds sold 2 laptops.

The bank won't give online credit card processing as low turnover (chicken & egg scenario) so use paypal.

Tried magazine advertising - all sorts and spent about £1500 in last 18 months but still only get order on phone etc once in a while

Anyone got any advice/help without costing loads of money as no sales= no profit to spend on marketing and keep going into the red personally trying ideas.

Even had laptop sale days at house, really good layout and presentation - sold 2 over 2 events and seemed like we put up posters and delivered leaflets all over the town for 2 days prior. Had another 2 and sat here on our own.

Please help

Thank you

Steve & Julie

www.pcplanetsales.co.uk
 
To be honest the site really isn't that good.

You've very little descriptive text unless you delve for it. There is absolutely no SEO on the site. The default images don't really grab anyone. Also the site doesn't work on firefox.
 
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I just viewed some of the site in Firefox and didn't notice any problems - please can you expand, Richard?

I do agree that more description text would be better.

Also if I'm looking for a particular product I like to be able to use search to go straight there but found I had to trawl through the listings in alphabetical order which wouldn't keep me on the site, especially if there were a lot of listings.
 
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Thank you for your replies so far.

The descriptive text - where are you meaning? On the home page or for the products?

As i said previously, due to the high maintenance of keeping up to date with products, prices, discontinued, new and changed products, its easier to have this site as the basic model as i just open my product excel document, update all via my supplier and then upload the new database to site which makes all the changes in an instant.

I have very little control over the menu layout, although i can move things about a bit, as that it set from the suppliers.

I must admit i would rather have more control and used to have an oscommerce site via osc ( a free download with loads of features) but it took so long entering menus, catagories and updating it all the time.

So this is far easier, but unfortunately my supplier use frames whereby i do find it tricky linking things and the header is one page, the menu is set and the main section is in my control, but as i say, its tricky in frames and 'asp'?? although i dont fully understand asp.

I have keywords, content etc in the main page html as well as the header, so not sure what you meant by no ceo?

Thank you

Steve
 
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People spend a lot of time online sourcing the cheapest deal. If they are a regular user of a particular site or if they find a unique product for sale they may buy it without looking around but in general people look for the best price. I have to be honest that within seconds I found a a good few products that I can get cheaper somewhere else. No matter what you do with SEO or the look of the site I think you will always lose customers on the issue of price.
 
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do you know if that side navigation prob is due to 'asp' or the fact it's frames?
 
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stevem said:
The descriptive text - where are you meaning? On the home page or for the products?
Click to expand...

I was thinking of descriptions of the products - at the moment there is just info about models but I would like to see information about the products because if yours was the first site I visited I would get no information about the products just brand and model details.

On the Firefox front, I've had another look and the only links I can get to work are those in the centre of the page - which is how I navigated the first time I visited.
 
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Framed sites are problematic for search engines to spider. The only framed site I have ever found useful is Tesco.

The menu on the left is too long and the text is too small. Break it up into more easily scanned units of five and make the text bigger.

Those kinds of expanding menus are a horror to use.

No search facility - many many people prefer to use search than spend time trying to browse, especially when the menu is so hard to use.

Links have no alt text and don't colour up when you have visited them.

It is not clear what is clickable and what isn't, i.e. some text looks plain but is actually a link - this means the user is forced to comb each page to find the clickable parts - slightly annoying, but all these things add up to someone leaving your website.

When you are looking at one product in detail there is no clue as to where you are on the site and you can only start again from the left hand menu or use the brower's back button. You need a breadcrumb trail or for the left hand menu to make some indicaton of where you currently are.

If it doesn't work in FireFox you are excluding 26% of buyers.

There's a list of benefits across the top of the page but they are not clickable - make it so.

Your top left logo can and should be a home button.

I tried to look at the basket but it told me I needed cookies enabled. I have cookies enabled - I run a shop, then it seemed to frame itself in the frame - bizarre.

I really think ease of navigation is a major problem for you. It is hard work to use. People will simply go somewhere easier (and probably cheaper).

I can't comment on all your other activities but it does sound like you have paid out a lot of money needlessly. You should try things in a small way and build on successes when they occur.

Locally I would have thought yellow pages would be a good place to be.

Also get rid of the links at the bottom of the pages - they make you look tatty and they are clearly failing to help you.

You have no sales talk, just cut and dried product. you need to sell the benefits of the products to the consumer. If someone knows the product they will shop off for the cheapest price - I do if I'm buying a brand name thing. Then I buy from the site which offers me a cheap deal but is easy to use and looks trustworthy.
 
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I was wondering if you offered something that people like dell can't like a free tutorial with each pc, free installation etc etc.. Doesn't have to be forever but would get your name around.

Also have you thought of going along to a couple of BNI meetings as a guest to gauge if they would be a good supply of leads?

Rob
 
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I've just been back to your site and the more I look the more I see.

Talking of trustworthiness - your site has zero of this.

You have no contact page with address and contact number, VAT number etc which might instill some confidence.

At the bottom of the page you say basically that if I buy from you I might not get what I see nor pay what you say I will - what kind of a shop is that?

Your shipping fees are simply hideous. Whoever heard of paying shipping for a product worth £1000? Let alone £30.

I have only just realised those fuzzy little things at the top of the page are buttons - I can't read them and even when clicked I'm not liking what I see. One of them looks like a link to Tetris. This stuff is vital info and you have hidden it behind indecipherable blobs.

You dont' have a clear FAQ page - your help is hidden in your shipping page and isn't comprehensive.

Overall these problems give the impression of a very amateur setup.
There is no trust.

And I've just found your search box hidden at the bottom of your menu. It needs to be more prominent. and say 'Search'.

Now you could say, "Stupid woman - can't she read? Isn't she looking?" but I am looking, I'm really trying to use your site and I'm having problems. What does that say about a casual visitor who comes in?
 
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We have a site that links to our supplier that is so easy to update the daily changes in pricing via a linked database and just takes 5 minutes a day, so i cannot consider dumping that to set up a different site.
Click to expand...

Due to the previous statement, we cannot afford hours upon hours updating products manually if we don't use the suppliers pre formatted site - which unfortunately is frames.

MATRIXX: There are company details at bottom at present and the telephone number duplicated in the header image but i understand what you mean as we used to have all this within our osc site, but unless we can be shown how to integrate our suppliers info with osc it won't work.

Almost all sites on the web that sell, including high street flyers say images are for illustrative purposes to cover the one person that we all get at times that say "..but the picture showed a dark blue hard drive, and this is black" (bearing in mind they don't see the h/d inside a pc.

Shipping for a £1000, only one of the largest = DELL for example and thousands of others. If your profits are so high that you can ship for free - GREAT, but you cannot expect every industry to do it.

The links - you say are fuzzy etc, what screen resolution are you using? also perhaps some CONSTRUCTIVE help in these forums would be good. IE: explain that it would be better with a site that expands to the viewers screen size by using percentage sizes and HOW TO DO THAT.

Again the search is part of the menu set up from our supplier - nothing i can do.
 
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sorry that last post wasn't answering Matrixx, it was for SILLYJOKE

But thank you for your constructive ideas Matrixx, i did previously offer free installation and delivery, and obviously the free installation only worked locally to us and not at distance.

It seems that i am in a situation whereby setting up a new website like an osc one would be better but would have to spend a very long time inputting data for products etc.

Then the painstaking task a couple of times a week checking hundreds of products prices, changes, discontinued etc, which is common in the computer industry as the manufacturers always upgrade continuously.

OR

Stay with what i have and try and find someone to help make the most of it - design wise

Thanks
Steve
 
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By the way Matrixx, thank you for the document you sent, but it seems tailored to service selling rather than product - do you have the one relating to selling product?

A note for everyone....

See what you think of this site and tell us whether the basic construction and feel would be better for PC Planet - please;

www.pleasurezone.uk.com

It IS adult toys and clothing, just to let you know before going there, but it uses php and osc code.

thank you
Steve
 
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The fuzzy links are the ones which turn into mice when you mouse over them. They would be better if they did not require mouse over action and were more clearly labeled. I am looking at the site on a large screen.

From your comments about how your are tied to the supplier I suggest you get the supplier to look at this thread.

If they could see the problems you are having they might do something about the way they provide your site. After all it would benefit them for you to start selling more - it sounds almost as if they don't give a hoot and really don't have a clue how to sell online. They probably think that the internet is not all it's cracked up to be.

In fact I'm now thinking it is your supplier we should be chastising.

Sorry if you feel my comments are not constructive. You could certainly act on a few of them without your supplier - work on the contact info, help and returns stuff.

I've told you why your site isn't working - now take it up with your suppliers. They would probably thank you for it if it increases their sales.

Here's an idea for you.

Stop trying to sell this stuff yourself. It's just too hard.

Instead become an affiliate of a good computer site, which converts well and has a known brand and promote their goods.

You'd get a regular commission cheque, be able to make your site work to your own satisfaction and many people make a respectable living doing this kind of work.

If I wasn't a merchant I would do that job.
 
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stevem said:
By the way Matrixx, thank you for the document you sent, but it seems tailored to service selling rather than product - do you have the one relating to selling product?

A note for everyone....

See what you think of this site and tell us whether the basic construction and feel would be better for PC Planet - please;

www.pleasurezone.uk.com

It IS adult toys and clothing, just to let you know before going there, but it uses php and osc code.

thank you
Steve
Click to expand...

Steve the site is a standard OS Commerce site.

http://www.oscommerce.com/

Rob
 
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Its had a lot of changes but the point is whether its better going with that or staying on the current idea, but i'll have to input data manually 3 times a week.
 
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A few comments from a sales angle

1: No credibility as to who you are, will you be there in 6 months etc. The site does not give me enough of a quality to feel to address this, so lack of information says lack of trust. The fact that you cannot take credit cards adds to this. Sorry.

2: TMUP, who is this site aimed at? Mrs Jones who knows nothing about IT, or geeks who know a lot, or price focused people etc? Also Promoting Dell is ok but promoting everything just says you specialise in nothing. No company can be great at everything.

3: Depending on who you are aiming this site at, I would also like to see some value add especially if this is aimed at people with little or no IT knowledge.

To see what I mean and this site is v new and hence is continually being improved based on feedback received go to www.redjag.co.uk. Oh and this site is aimed at people who know about IT but do not want to build the machine themselves.

Hope this helps.
 
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I know you said your site is always being improved but i can't even load it in IE ....!

If you go to the checkout you can submit creditdebit cards for purchase by either logging in or registering with paypal or NOT having to do so, just buy immediately, or via telephone for those wary of online purchasing.

How can a computer store not sell everything related to computers? Have you ever been in PC World, or visited Dabs.com (which is more of a mess and nightmare to navigate), or e-buyer or the other thousands of computer sales sites and shops.

Why minimise your market to either price focused or techys, you have no control who comes to your site via search engines etc - so why illiminate half of them immediately?

In our experience those with the knowledge will build their own pc's AND know the cost and therefore shop around. If you were a builder would you employ a builder to construct your garden wall??
 
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re IE I have just checked the site and can see no problem but will get it looked at further.

Re the target. Because people like you to focus on them. There is no interaction on our website and hence providing the personal touch is very hard. Because we cannot do this we aimed the site at being a market leader in a specific area and not a generalist.

As for control of who comes to the site. Sorry but I strongly disagree. The site is being optimised for very specific key words and phrases that we know that type of person types into the search engines. We cannot optimise for every phrase so we have do the research based on PPC and found what hits are target market user profile. Though this will never be 100% perfect sales have shown that this focus is working.

Last but not least from launch this site has done very well. It does not appeal to Mrs Jones and not to geeks but that does leave us with a big enough part of the pie to have a large enough turnover to meet our financial objectives.

As for the future we are now looking at a new site aimed at a different sector of the market based around a different set of key words which we hope will have a similar amount of success.
 
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Listen to SillyJokes, I taught her everything she knows :wink:
My greatest pupil and my greatest disappointment

Take control of your site.

What format does the data from your supplier come in?

I'm sure someone could write a script to reformat so that it could easily be plugged into a oscommerce (or similar) site.

You could then start working on making an easy to use site, that converts well.
 
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Top Hat said:
And Credit Cards, try WorldPay they wont say no.
Click to expand...

Thanks Top Hat

How refreshing, thats cheered me up and given hope

Only thing is that the supplier does say about bringing in their menu, products etc by way of a frame, so if i use osc or something, i still need to rely on getting rid of osc menu and inserting the suppliers by way of frame that substitutes exactly. And then where would the frame load the product or product selection.

But you are right i need someone out there to do that type of thing and optimize the site SEO etc to get us off to a good start, otherwise, as i have before, be spending hours, days, weeks trying to learn and play about different aspects that i know little about, for example;

php for oscommerce
html, frames etc
search engine optimisation

all this leaves no time to the actual business and local promotions and advertising.

And of course getting others to do it costs a fortune that the business cannot afford.

This forum has certainly thrown everything up in the air, but i need to sort out a good website thats easy and convenient to update with minimal cost in doing so.

Anyone prepared to assist or offer their services, maybe we can sort some exchange out of service or product in return.

Thank you
Steve
 
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What format does the data from your supplier come in?
Click to expand...

TopHat

The format is Microsoft Excel with Macros that the supplier gave us.

When opening the database it has clickable link that updates all new, discontinued and changed products and applies the changes to my database.

Another link is then clicked to save that data as another excel sheet that is simpler and its that one that is uploaded to the website, which is a logon of an admin section that the supplier gives us, alongside the website they give on their server and i just ensure my url diverts to my mini website at my supplier. They also allow the home page header and footer to be customized and any other html pages can be added and linked but due to the frames, i have to be careful, as its not as easy as straight forward html.

If i knew how to frame their content on MY SITE it would be better and as you say take control, but i had no luck with this.

Steve
 
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Hi Steve - it would be simple for us to get you clicks from people intersted in your products, but the conversion of thos isto sales would need to be addressed by you, by taking the sound advice above.

Give me a shout, and we can throw some ideas around

Cheers
Rob

top-click
 
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I'm definately leaning towards going to os commerce again and trying to input my suppliers content to there but i do require someone with osc knowledge and framesets as the following has gone slightly over my head althoughi did try it in osc and i just couldn't get it to happen, also i would end up with the menu you currently see within the centre of the page and also have an existing osc menu

the supplier recommends this;

setup a forwarding page on your main site with a frameset. The frame source would be your 1604.tchosts4.net address. You can either setup a single page to do this e.g. "store.htm" on your main website, or create a folder in your main website e.g. "store" and create a framing page called "default.htm" the difference between these two options is the address that will be displayed in the browser. With the single html page the address will show as http://www.pcplanetsales.co.uk/store.htm whereas with the folder method you will see http://www.pcplanetsales.co.uk/store/

An example of the frame code required in your store.htm or default.htm is :

<frameset cols="100%" border="0">
<frame src="http://1608.tchosts4.net">
</frameset>

does this make sense to anyone who knows os commerce
 
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Hi Steve,

Phew - read through all these posts but what I am interested in finding out is are you receiving lots of visitors from targeted sources, i.e. other websites and search engines and these visitors are not converting in to sales - or are you having the difficulties attracting the people to find you?

The answer to this should stear us in the right direction to help.

I think many points given so far about the site itself are fair, I don't necessarily think the site itself drives people away before ordering (unless the ordering process itself is over-complicated) but for products like yours there is a lot of competition.

If people are visiting but they are not buying it could be a number of reasons, but likely to be:

- Ordering process too complicated
- People visiting you from sites and search engines for unrelated keywords or links. i.e. not targeted and not what the visitor wanted

If people are not visiting, you could try:

- SEO (I offer a free SEO weekly newsletter you may find useful - visit http://www.c2webdesign.co.uk). I've instantly seen some things to improve on i.e. Title tag, ALT tags, META keywords etc... You have a lot of competition and need to start targeting popular keywords with smaller competition

- Maybe try PPC shopping comparison sites. It may cost you per click, or percentage of any final sale

- Google Adwords may bring some visitors in

- Write articles on PC equipment/latest gizmos etc... for relevant sites and media publication

- Obtain links from very themed and relevant sites, not '.....loads of free search engines' or directories as sometimes this can give you adverse effects

- Offer a competition and list on competitions sites - capture peoples email addresses to send out your own mailing lists (very important process). With the thousands of leaflets and promotion you have done already by giving away some kind of prize you could have captured email addresses, keep them within a regular newsletter, and keep people informed of your business and products.

- Write a press release, very difficult I know but is there any angle or something in the press which would help you gain some exposure?

Hope this goes someway to helping,
Dean
C2 Web Design
http://www.c2webdesign.co.uk

Web Design | Online Marketing | Search Engine Optimisation

Family Day Out UK
http://www.familydayoutuk.co.uk

All you need for a great Family Day Out!
 
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calling business locally, get them to buy from you intially meeting them would be a good idea, telling them your local, your competitive and you can suppply on demand, and that you have the web function so your clients can buy online after initial order, this will raise web sales, adding clients this way will raise the visit numbers, it will also mean that they may wish to pass links to friends/family/colleagues, and clients.
Grow through your customers rather than trying to sell one order to one customer at a time, keep people coming back instead of looking at new business all the time. Hope this makes sense.
 
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Thanks Dean

Just to start, here is a link to the 'remains' of the beginning of the osc site we 'were' going to build on: http://www.pcplanetsales.co.uk/shop/anti_virus.php and if you look at the lower left infobox you'll see a selection of advice/information links/pages - is this the type of thing you meant?

The hits to the site have jumped from 23 to 62 UNIQUE visitors today, obviously due to this thread, but the hits in general are rubbish as you can see by these.
Unique visitors a month average 50-60 with 550 visitors in general a month and 700-800 pages. But don't know how much is search engines/spiders etc.

250 direct address links and 6 from search engines, 39 from exteranl pages which mainly is this post.

8% added us to favourites.

I reckon that most people are targeted traffic from local leaflets with the web address on, and also many people telphone us for product info etc rather than going to the site where they can find all the product info and prices. Very often someone phones and asks if we sell, say, graphics cards and we end up talking through it while i show them online while they look from their pc.

Keywords; i have these at present if you go to www.pcplanetsales.co.uk then on the toolbar>View>Source, you will see these, let me know what you think.

We also come up in google search and a few other directories.

I like your other ideas too, but first i need to get the web site sorted as in what one to use and get it looking good, and at present i need a good web designer with osc knowledge to maybe integrate the suppliers section

Thank you for your time

Regards
Steve
 
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Hi,

With regards to the link Matrixx gave you : http://www.product-marketing-tips.com/

I would recommend giving it a go. I have got it recently and the one thing it does is force you to think about who your customers really are and create and target specific niches, like home users or businesses and then create marketing etc to these markets.

Whether it means reducing your product range and focusing on something like networking products and home users and providing installation and support (people do need it!).

I know you have spent alot of money on the business but if its been in the wrong place then its been in the wrong place. My mistake was knowing that there is room for one more ink cartridge seller but I didn't do any real research (something which the ebook is getting me to do). Now I am focussing on only selling ink cartridges to business but making it easier for stationary buyers to manage the ordering process.

Anyway, its worth a go - you get your money back if youre not happy.
 
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Here is an update relating to those of you that posted technical issues with my site that relate to my supplier.

I forwarded your relevant quotes and feedback and they have just replied with this statement;

Thanks for the comments, we have just about fixed the Firefox / Opera etc problem, and this should be released in the next few days. Many of the comments regarding useability are unfortunately subjective, we have these issues day-in day-out, if you change your site to favour one approach, a whole new set of people start complaining !, for instance, removing the frames and making the menu small and static would force the user to load numerous pages, each considerably slower to load.
We are working on many improvements which will filter through in time, thanks again for your input
Click to expand...

Thank you all, also for your input to date

Regards

Steve
 
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pffft! you are on a loser there then mate.

Usability is not subjective - there are standards coming out all the time and that site doesn't meet them.

They can carry on with their heads in the sand but you can do something to improve your own outlook and good luck to you.
 
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Seems very much a get-out-clause statement to me.

Frames are not very good to work with and cause havoc with search engine 'visits' - affecting your search engine results page.

Seems they have more of a technical issue in resolving the problems, than the fact 'people will start complaining'. A site should (and must) be able to accomodate usability and speed at the same time - not sacrafice one for the other.

I'm glad my other comments were useful and I will reply in more detail to your earlier questions shortly.

Dean
C2 Web Design
http://www.c2webdesign.co.uk

Family Day Out UK
http://www.familydayoutuk.co.uk
 
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The articles you have on your OsC page are good and useful information like this is sought after. if you know your stuff you maybe able to approach (or ask a PR person) to approach magazines, publications and even other websites to see if your content - or any content you produce maybe welcomed. For example Devshed.com pay for articles and give recognition to its writers. Mainly US based I know - but also many UK visitors.

Your keywords in your META tags seem a little to generic for me. Your competition is huge and with very little backlinks from Google (and other search engines) you will not score highly for popular common keywords. At the moment you have the following backlinks, according to the search engines:

Google = 1
Yahoo = 7
MSN = 6
AltaVista = 8

You maybe need to think about combining some of these keywords together.

As you can see in order to start gaining some crediability in the search engines eyes - you need more backlinks - and relevant ones too.

If you need any more help or advice you could also always contact me through my website.

Again hope this helps,
Dean
C2 Web Design
http://www.c2webdesign.co.uk

Family Day Out UK
http://www.familydayoutuk.co.uk
 
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Yes there are plenty of suppliers but not any that will give as much ease updating product catalogues and prices etc in just 5 mins, so i'd like to keep that, but find someone who can integrate that into my own type of menu in an osc store.

c2webdesign: could you explain further about 'backlinks' and what i'd need to do please. As you have probaly noticed, the meta tags have now been changed by a kind user here.

Richard: not sure what i'm supposed to be looking at here??

Again if anyone knows someone who can do the integration into an osc site and re-build at a good price, please let us know, then we can move on with optimisation as there probably isn't any point in doing that if the site is about to be re-vamped.

Thank you for feedback

Steve
 
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