Paypal...what the hell...

[dingbat]

A couple of weeks back I had an ebay order paid via Paypal. The next day I get an email from Paypal:

To protect you from problematic transactions, we sometimes request additional information about PayPal payments.

We need more information about this transaction. Please log in to your PayPal account, click the "Resolution Centre" tab, and provide more information by 06/05/2009.

If you need to provide information by fax, click and print a cover sheet:
https://www.paypal.com/uk/cgi-bin/?cmd=_complaint_resolve_tracking_fax&cid=PP-xxx-xxx-xxx

Please fax proof of postage or proof of refund to 08707 303 196.

We recommend that you do not post the item until our investigation is complete. If you've already posted the item, please log in and let us know where you posted it.

We have placed a temporary hold on the funds until we complete our investigation.
Thank you for your cooperation.

Yours sincerely,
PayPal

Well, I hadn't posted the item out yet and I can't work out how I was meant to have made a refund if Paypal were holding the funds? So, the only information I could give them was that I hadn't sent the item out yet.

After the customer asking twice where his order was (the second email threatening negative feedback etc) I now get a concluding email from Paypal:

We've concluded our investigation into the transaction detailed below.

Because you did not meet the eligibility requirements for the PayPal Seller Protection Policy, you will be charged for this reversed transaction.
We've returned the funds to the PayPal account holder. Your account will be debited for the amount of this transaction.

-----------------------------------
Helping ensure safe transactions
-----------------------------------

Most payments you receive will be from good, honest buyers. However, there may be some that are not.

You can often reduce your risk to these payments by paying close attention to payment details and unusual requests.

Watch for address inconsistencies:

Although it's fairly common for a buyer's postal address to be different from the billing address, in some cases it could indicate fraud. For instance, a high-priced item that has a billing address in one country and a postal address in another may be suspicious.

Beware of unusual requests that could indicate suspicious activity, such as:
- Buyers who want you to post an item to them ASAP and at any cost
- Buyers who send partial payments from different PayPal accounts
- Do not make payment in full

Visit the PayPal Security Centre for more information.

This has me totally confused. Someone pays me, paypal hold the funds and then return them to the sender and I get charged for it? Am I missing something here?

 

[MH1]

Paypal won't have charged you, they simply reversed the payment, since you did not post the goods all you have lost is the sale.

It might be worth contacting the client and offering them another payment method, the odd occassion they have no honest idea why this happens either, obviously most times the bank or card refuse to process the funds.

 

[Steve2507]

These happen when some of the details of the buyer are not quite right.

The address, email address (if they have an account) etc are correct, but the ip address could be wrong.

We have had 2 recently, one was where the customers address was in Ireland, but when they made the order they were overseas in Germany and the other was a similar situation, customers address USA, working in Suadi.

It's annoying because no matter what you do (in my experience) the payment will be refunded, but then again they are trying to protect the merchant.

As previously said as long as you haven't sent out the goods you haven't lost anything and as long as you explain it to the customer the don't have a problem with it. On both of the above occasions they re-ordered when they were back in their own country. In fact one of them thanked us as they had had this happen before as they travel a lot but couldn't find out what the problem was.

 

[dingbat]

It seems paypal have charged me. I've had to pay the fee. No surprise as they've done this in the past and it took ages for them to credit me. Paypal's statements can be confusing so it's not easy to work out when they've made you pay the fee.

 

[Steve2507]

It seems paypal have charged me. I've had to pay the fee. No surprise as they've done this in the past and it took ages for them to credit me. Paypal's statements can be confusing so it's not easy to work out when they've made you pay the fee.

If it is a straight reversal (not a chargeback) you will find they have issued the charges refund at the same time as crediting the customer.

 

[dingbat]

If it is a straight reversal (not a chargeback) you will find they have issued the charges refund at the same time as crediting the customer.

Yes, just checked again. My mistake. Don't know why Paypal have to confuse matters. I have a line of the original credit and then another showing the reversal. And then an update to the reversal where the amount has been credited to my account again less the fee (fee shows zero) and then lastly another reversal but the full amount and fee credited.

 

[Steve2507]

Yes, just checked again. My mistake. Don't know why Paypal have to confuse matters. I have a line of the original credit and then another showing the reversal. And then an update to the reversal where the amount has been credited to my account again less the fee (fee shows zero) and then lastly another reversal but the full amount and fee credited.

I know what you mean, it used to confuse the hell out of me as well.

 

[tb1234]

Personally, I would think about offering another payment method as Paypal do random things like this all the time and only offer consumers limited protection.

 

[CompleteTrainer]

Just for info - PayPal has problems with IE 8 - very annoying!!!!

I have to log on to Firefox to do any PayPal stuff.

CT

 

[Rainbow Chasers']

There was a scam going a little while ago - you may have escaped it! Ebay own paypal - and you are not permitted to use any other means of payment, which is daft as they say you can offer cheque etc - but i had a rollicking of them and said that i could only accept paypal, and took my advert off for offering other means.

Since ebay became buyer biased, there has been a scam involving buyers taking high value goods, then stating that it has not been received/not as described etc and being given their money back by paypal without question. This means the seller loses the item, and the money! I had a similar thing a while back, i kicked off about it but still had to pay the money and compensation to the buyer! I did eventually get the item back after threatening police action - but it came back cut up and unpackaged - paypal and ebay refused to acknowledge it and refused to take it further. So in the end i still lost the item and the funds - the buyer even left negative feedback which i thought was a cheek, as he wanted a refund and wanted to keep the item!

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

The original point of paypal was to speed up transactions. It seems that they have gone so far off track that they now put sellers in the position that they need to hold onto the item for a few days, just to ensure that the buyer/paypal themselves haven't lost the plot. The whole thing is just daft.

 

[KateCB]

makes you wonder doesn't it - with the DSR being weighted in favour of the consumer and Paypal being the same - is it worth it anymore?!

 

[MH1]

i had a rollicking of them and said that i could only accept paypal, and took my advert off for offering other means.

Paypal have no sway over ebay adverts, but ebay insist paypal is accepted on their listings. It does not stop you accepting cheques, simply you must agree to accept paypal as well at the same time.

As for is it worth all the hassle, each trader has too decide for themselves. Personally I run at approx 1% awkward clients over the last two years, so no worse than traditional methods IMO, but certain products tend to attract scam merchants more than others.

 

[Elizabeth -Atelier Maison]

Hi, I'm sorry you've had problems with Paypal. Normally they are very good. Have you rang the customer services number on their website. Its an automated service, but if you actually say 'agent' you'll be transferred to a person! Hopefully this person can sort out your mix-up, and refund you.

 

[sourcez]

Just make sure you send everything signed & secured and that the buyers address is confirmed.

If you've got all their boxes checked you can call them up and shout until they realise they are wrong.

Takes time - it shouldn't be such a fight - but thats how it is.

Ideally eBay would allow other payment processors such as google checkout, moneybookers etc.

 

[dingbat]

It's all sorted as I've now worked out I'm not paying the fee (I hope) although the email suggested otherwise which does make me a tad wary. It's not a big fee anyway.

On a previous mess up I was made to pay the fee and that was over £50, so certainly worth worrying about. And at that time Paypal had advised me not to send the goods because of a suspected fraudulent transaction, yet allowed the buyer to open up a case against me for non-receipt of goods in which he won! Paypal do have some quirks.

About the point of not allowing other forms of payment on ebay - recently I was uploading an item through turbolister and had to provide Paypal as the only accepted form of payment otherwise it wouldn't upload the auction. According to Paypal this was because of the nature of the item or some jive.

 

[sourcez]

About the point of not allowing other forms of payment on ebay - recently I was uploading an item through turbolister and had to provide Paypal as the only accepted form of payment otherwise it wouldn't upload the auction. According to Paypal this was because of the nature of the item or some jive.

The only?

This sounds familiar, I think there's something like this enabled in some categories - the one I tripped was tech related but can't remember exactly which category.

 

[dingbat]

The only?

This sounds familiar, I think there's something like this enabled in some categories - the one I tripped was tech related but can't remember exactly which category.

Yes, I can upload all the others but this particular one came under a certain category. I've forgotten which now.

 

[mentalworx]

Hi, I'm sorry you've had problems with Paypal. Normally they are very good. Have you rang the customer services number on their website. Its an automated service, but if you actually say 'agent' you'll be transferred to a person! Hopefully this person can sort out your mix-up, and refund you.

Paypal: not in my experience. My experience of them is - they are impossible to contact; they ignore their website-entered complaints and they do nothing to vet or bar their less scrupulous account-holders. I avoid them- although I guess if my experience was common-place they wouldn't be in business. I can't see what benefit they are over credit / debit cards directly ? And why, anyway, would they have an unpublished method of contact such as saying "agent", rather than pressing a number ? But then - don't get me started on Automated Answering Systems !!!!!!

 

[hostedweb]

Switch to Google checkout or offer it as a second option. I have found them really good and they don't reverse the payments as easily as paypal.