new webdeisgner needed

[carmen0k]

Hi,

Just when I thought everything was moving smoothly, my webdesigner quits 3 months into the project and 2months before completion.

My business is heavily database oriented and I believe it was abit over his head.

I need the database to be robust and designed properly so it doesn't crash in the near future or hopefully at all. I provided the all the information to do with the tables which ofcourse is not 100% but that was where his 20yrs of experience was to come in.

I am not sure whether to have separate workers one that specialises in databases and the other to design the website and the previous person did both so my business has come to a hault.

I am frustrated and concered with the possible delay of the launch.

I am on a strict budget and cannot afford to lay down for deposits and was on a convenient pay as you go term.

Can anyone point me in the right direction of a business or freelancer who can help, or advise?

Thanks in advance
Carmen

 

[muqtada123]

If u can post your link to your website that would more helpful for the one who needs work and help you out

 

[Monica_ChilliApple]

Hi Carmen,

I don't know how could people (professionals) quit their work mid-ways & walk away like this.

Anyways, we can help you with design & database both, if interested please send me details at [email protected] or PM me.

Glad to chat further with you and help you.

Thanks,
Monica

www.chilliapple.co.uk

 

[ozbon]

Feel free to drop me a PM about this if you'd like to give more details about the project, your budget etc. and I'll see what I can do.

 

[muqtada123]

See everyone needs info then gonna start the project. I told you earlier

 

[ozbon]

See everyone needs info then gonna start the project. I told you earlier

Yes, information is needed. Not abuse.

And if you'd read the initial post, you'd see that the website hasn't been done yet. It's in development.

Sheesh.

 

[angie@thesetupdesign]

Hi, I am sorry to hear that you had the misfortune to deal with what would seem to be a bit of a cowboy.

We have experience in delivering database driven sites. I have provided a link to an example here for your convenience: click here to view database website example

You can also view other website in our portfolio at: Click here to view portfolio

I would need more information in order to give you an idea of cost, but am happy to work on a payment schedule with you.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Use this link if you would like to email me.

With regards
Angie

 

[Astaroth]

It is never good when a developer walks out of a project.

Have you received the work to date given that your more than half the way through? Has anything been completed from either a visual design, technical design or development perspective? Do you know what technologies the work to date have been done in?

Best regards

 

[AndyBlack]

You'd be well to speak with ozbon. He helped me out recently with an issue, and he was very good at relaying my problem to me and helping me to understand the solution. Bloody mod rewrites! Lol

I'm sure he'd be able to complete your prject for you if both your terms were agreed.

Andy

 

[slaterino]

Hi Carmen,
Let me know if you're still looking for a web designer. I specialise in database-driven sites. You can see some of my work at thgcreative.co.uk.

I have recently finished a couple of projects and am looking for something new to work on so will be able to hopefully get the site back on schedule.

Oh, and my rates are very conservative. Please PM me if you're interested.

Thanks,
Russ

 

[Deleted member 35011]

Carmen,

Sorry to hear of your web woes.

I've been involved in a number of busy database-driven websites, with less-than-obvious back-end functionality, including www.neednewwheels.com.

If you'd like to discuss further, please send through
- your original brief
- details of what's been done to date
- what technologies have been used (if you know)
- what's outstanding
- your deadline

Delighted to chat through your options without obligaton. My email is aaron at aaronpollock dot co.uk and further info at www.aaronpollock.co.uk

 

[carmen0k]

Hi,

Just when I thought everything was moving smoothly, my webdesigner quits 3 months into the project and 2months before completion.

My business is heavily database oriented and I believe it was abit over his head.

I need the database to be robust and designed properly so it doesn't crash in the near future or hopefully at all. I provided the all the information to do with the tables which ofcourse is not 100% but that was where his 20yrs of experience was to come in.

I am not sure whether to have separate workers one that specialises in databases and the other to design the website and the previous person did both so my business has come to a hault.

I am frustrated and concered with the possible delay of the launch.

I am on a strict budget and cannot afford to lay down for deposits and was on a convenient pay as you go term.

Can anyone point me in the right direction of a business or freelancer who can help, or advise?

Thanks in advance
Carmen

Hello again,

You never guess what??

Yes another webdesign has been unable to complete the website when it was due to be finished then end on this month! I totally understand his circumstance but that does leave me with the lovely task of finding yet another webdesigner.

I previously received alot of quotes but these's were just too high and i near gave up on the project, but it is a good idea so I will keep searching till i find someone that is willing to work with my budget.

I have been advised that the website has been designed using Joomla and CiviCRM with MySQL database. I believe the website to be 75% complete so if you are familiar with the above and may be able to complete the project please message me.

However if you feel it may be better starting from scratch then if you are interested please message me, i will forward you a brief description of what is required, if it sounds doable i will forward you the full details etc.

I need this website completed ASAP for third party testing and finally to start the business.

Many thanks in advance

 

[Interconnect IT]

I don't want to sound abtuse, and maybe this is going to be taken the wrong way, but when I see phrases like "yet another webdesigner" I get alarm bells going off in my head.

If you're going through web designers (and really, this sounds like it's as much a web development job as anything else) then the problem may be with you, to a degree.

You should consider - if you're pushing for a very low price, but most companies want more, then perhaps you're trying to go too low. Consequently the lowest bids will often come from those with too little experience to realise what they're letting themselves in for. Quite quickly they realise that they'd make more money stacking shelves at Tesco, and they start to try to find ways of getting out of the job.

Web development is hard. If a job would take a real pro three months to complete then you're looking at around £30k. Someone charging £5k, for example, is working on the basis of making £20k a year. Subtract various expenses and costs such as computers, accounting and so on and they're making £15k a year.

A customer service advisor working for British Gas, in Manchester, could easily make around £20k a year with bonuses for a nice safe job with relatively low stress.

However, I've no idea of your budgets, or what you're paying. The above may be completely out of line

 

[agtc]

We specialise in database driven websites. Please email me at [email protected] or PM me with details of original project, and what has been completed upto date, then we can see if we can help you.

Regards

Andrea

 

[iboxsecurity]

Carmen - sorry to hear about the problems you have been having! We are experienced in database driven projects so please feel free to PM the brief or email it to [email protected] and i shall take a look asap.

 

[britishpcrepairs]

Hi

To a certain degree I would agree with InterConnect IT. However I do understand that for someone who is not from a technical background how hard it can be to work out a reasonable budget for their IT needs. Afterall I probably will not be able to appreciate the complexity and problems one might come across while building say a small house!

I am Nik and I have extensive experience working with Investment banks and the likes designing and developing their transaction systems. I am well versed with Database design and fine tuning and have expertise in website design. Further since I have a team of dedicated designers based off shore I am always able to provide very competitive quotes. Please do leave me a PM and I shall try and help you in whatever ways I can.

Nik

 

[carmen0k]

I don't want to sound abtuse, and maybe this is going to be taken the wrong way, but when I see phrases like "yet another webdesigner" I get alarm bells going off in my head.

If you're going through web designers (and really, this sounds like it's as much a web development job as anything else) then the problem may be with you, to a degree.

You should consider - if you're pushing for a very low price, but most companies want more, then perhaps you're trying to go too low. Consequently the lowest bids will often come from those with too little experience to realise what they're letting themselves in for. Quite quickly they realise that they'd make more money stacking shelves at Tesco, and they start to try to find ways of getting out of the job.

Web development is hard. If a job would take a real pro three months to complete then you're looking at around £30k. Someone charging £5k, for example, is working on the basis of making £20k a year. Subtract various expenses and costs such as computers, accounting and so on and they're making £15k a year.

A customer service advisor working for British Gas, in Manchester, could easily make around £20k a year with bonuses for a nice safe job with relatively low stress.

However, I've no idea of your budgets, or what you're paying. The above may be completely out of line

Hi,

When requesting a quote I provide a brief description and if it sounds doable by the person/organisation I send a detailed specification which enables them to do a better assessment.

I explain my budget and all before hand so there is no confusion.

Whether I look for a website designer, developer or an electrician, if it is out of your scope or way out of my budget turn the job down.

I agree web development is difficult but so are alot of jobs out there. Very few roles come stress free. But if you are told the job specs, given a time frame, time to assess, agree a cost then what more can you do?

Kind regards,

 

[Enplus Solutions]

Carmen
We recently worked with mattchedit he built our website enplussolutions he was excellent and provides excellent support.

Enplus Solutions

Bioskin Compostable Cups -Enplus Rock Paper - p4e 'plastics for the environment

 

[ORDERED WEB]

Hi,

When requesting a quote I provide a brief description and if it sounds doable by the person/organisation I send a detailed specification which enables them to do a better assessment.

I explain my budget and all before hand so there is no confusion.

Whether I look for a website designer, developer or an electrician, if it is out of your scope or way out of my budget turn the job down.

I agree web development is difficult but so are alot of jobs out there. Very few roles come stress free. But if you are told the job specs, given a time frame, time to assess, agree a cost then what more can you do?

Kind regards,

It sounds like you need a very experienced developer to help vet your choice of supplier, and your brief. It may be your specification is weak or your understanding of what the job involves is not quite 100%. Equally, the designers/developers you are hiring may overestimate thier capabilities, and then find a feature request that tips them over the edge

I am not saying you are purveying the wrong message, or even suggesting the job is an easy one. However in my experience, a customers perception of a job is often a long way from the real reality. To illustrate this I am always amazed by the "this will be an easy job" routine. To a layman, what is an "easy job" may be an incredibly complex web job (interms of design and coding). This indicates to me that occasionally potential customers may need some "gentle readjustment of expectations" for the price they expect to pay, and the time somehting takes to develop

 

[bdw]

One of the major problems web designers have to deal with is scope creep. This is when a website has not been very carefully specified and half way into the project the client asks for something that was not in the spec. This could take many additional hours to develop. When the designer explains this clients can get annoyed because they do not appreciate the extent of the additional work they are asking for.

Clients sometimes have things in their head that they don't mention until they see the website taking shape. That's when we get into the...

"What about the widget database?"

"What widget database?"

"I need a widget database and it's not there!"

"But you never mentioned a widget database."

"Yes I did, I told you about when I called you back in March."

"I don't remember this and it's not in the spec so there will have to be a surcharge for this."

"But you said the website would cost me £1500!" etc, etc.

That is why clients should always be left in no doubt about what they are getting for their money and terms and conditions should be agreed before the work starts. Clients should also agree their terms and conditions with the designer and with complex jobs these t and cs should include a failure to complete penalty.

Incidentally, we would never take on work when we are not sure how to do it. In fact we can sometimes spend a full day or more working on a specific feature before quoting just to prove that we can do it. Obviously this time can be lost if you don't get the job but we just put it down to experience and be thankful that this method leads to 100% satisfied clients.

 

[David Griffiths]

John Ruskin had it:

"It's unwise to pay too much, but it's unwise to pay too little.

When you pay too much you lose a little money, that is all.

When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do.

The common law of business prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done.

If you deal with the lowest bidder, it's well to add something for the risk you run.

And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

 

[JDX_John]

If we're throwing quotes:

You can have your software built quickly, cheaply or well... pick two

Although I'd say even 2 is pushing it, in many cases.

 

[Alicatt]

One of the major problems web designers have to deal with is scope creep. This is when a website has not been very carefully specified and half way into the project the client asks for something that was not in the spec. This could take many additional hours to develop. When the designer explains this clients can get annoyed because they do not appreciate the extent of the additional work they are asking for.

Clients sometimes have things in their head that they don't mention until they see the website taking shape. That's when we get into the...

"What about the widget database?"

"What widget database?"

"I need a widget database and it's not there!"

"But you never mentioned a widget database."

"Yes I did, I told you about when I called you back in March."

"I don't remember this and it's not in the spec so there will have to be a surcharge for this."

"But you said the website would cost me £1500!" etc, etc.

That is why clients should always be left in no doubt about what they are getting for their money and terms and conditions should be agreed before the work starts. Clients should also agree their terms and conditions with the designer and with complex jobs these t and cs should include a failure to complete penalty.

Incidentally, we would never take on work when we are not sure how to do it. In fact we can sometimes spend a full day or more working on a specific feature before quoting just to prove that we can do it. Obviously this time can be lost if you don't get the job but we just put it down to experience and be thankful that this method leads to 100% satisfied clients.

This is true, but I think a lot of web design companies really don't help themselves. It's impossible to create a spec which has absolutely every detail tied down - and it's a poor way to develop a site anyway. If they quote a price which is so tight there is no contingency for any scope creep then they are almost guaranteeing the client's budget will not be met. This leeds to problems for the client and poor business relationships.

I've just about completed a project which has had me screaming in frustration as the developers ask for yet more cash - often for items which are standard in just about every free off-the-shelf shopping cart and which I considered a given but they considered extra.

If they'd said at the start we can't do what you want for that budget we would all have been happy.

 

[bdw]

It's impossible to create a spec which has absolutely every detail tied down - and it's a poor way to develop a site anyway.

It's not impossible at all and contingency can be built in. If you don't do this you get situations like this.

I've just about completed a project which has had me screaming in frustration as the developers ask for yet more cash - often for items which are standard in just about every free off-the-shelf shopping cart and which I considered a given but they considered extra.

Considering things a given is precisely the problem that designers have with clients. There are two sides to every story.

 

[Alicatt]

It's not impossible at all and contingency can be built in. If you don't do this you get situations like this.

I disagree about the spec - there will always be assumptions. For example (it's a silly one I know but its an illustration). I will assume that a menu bar will have links to to the items listed on that menu - it's implied in the description "menu bar". Would you bother to spell this out in a spec? To what level of detail do you go?

Considering things a given is precisely the problem that designers have with clients. There are two sides to every story.

Of course there are 2 sides - I'm sure the developers consider me a nightmare client. But it's a problem clients have with designers too - who are often reluctant to point out what ISN'T included and are often too eager to get the work without really understanding the client's needs when drawing up the quote.

I would be more understanding of my developers if they had been upfront at the point it started to become clear they had seriously underestimated the project. They denied what was obvious and we ended up weeks over timescale.

If they had been open we could have had a proper conversation about appropriate ways forward.

 

[Kev Jaques]

The important thing to realise with a detailed spec is if there is any doubt or ambiguity in the spec about how, why, where, what, when something should work then it's ironed/spelled out with iterations prior to ANY coding being done.

So Menu Bar would see a list below it with internal link to about page, internal link to xx page etc...

To do anything other than the above is a waste of everyones time.

 

[creospace]

We've had 32 page specs with appendixes all i's dotted and it's crossed.

The general problem is that customers aren't prepared to do the homework and aren't prepared to pay more for their own mistakes.

Nor pay the going rate for what they want.

 

[Kev Jaques]

We've had 32 page specs with appendixes all i's dotted and it's crossed.

The general problem is that customers aren't prepared to do the homework and aren't prepared to pay more for their own mistakes.

Nor pay the going rate for what they want.

I hear ya!

Perfect Preparation Prevents Piss Poor Performance! It's about time this was realised rather than doing half a job badly without planning just for the sake of a few quid.
Good planning always pays off in the end!

 

[bdw]

But it's a problem clients have with designers too - who are often reluctant to point out what ISN'T included

You are probably correct but it is not a problem we have had because we take the time to very, very carefully specify what we are doing for clients. We have more than enough work coming in so we don't have to hide anything to get jobs.

At the bottom of every quote we clearly state ...

The price quoted is for the work as defined and specified above. Should you require any significant additional work or changes to the agreed specification after the work commences additional charges would have to be agreed.

Our clients are made clear what they are getting for their money and we have never had any problem with this so clearly on this occasion there was an omission or misunderstanding on either your part or the designer's part.

We also insist that clients provide all the content required to complete the work up front. We tell them not to give us the go ahead to start until they have all the material and still they circumvent this. You have no idea how awkward people can be about this. They just don't realise that stop/starting on jobs is inefficient and wastes our time and money.

As I write this I am waiting on a client providing information that I was promised five weeks ago. It's not even difficult information to compile but he is dragging his feet and causing me all sorts of problems.

Please be assured that web designers have to put up with all sorts of cr*p from clients too. Many of my clients are only semi literate. They cannot spell and their grammar is deplorable. I am faced with publishing what they send me or correcting it. This all takes time but I don't charge for that either. Believe me, there are two sides to every coin.

(Rant over)

 

[Interconnect IT]

Our approach is that a client approaches us with a requirements list. We then have a meeting, often lasting a whole day... which they pay for!

This makes the meeting worthwhile to us, but a lot of clients won't pay for it. But that's their loss.

I then write the specification and a price based on that spec. The client can reject this specification, but again, they will be expected to pay for it.

Other clients hire us on a time and labour basis - for example, The Telegraph. They had their own (very good) people to do the work, but had holes in their knowledge. They paid us for days of consulting and training to help them get to where they wanted to be.

So simply put, a client can supply requirements as a specification, but unless those specifications are written by someone who already intricately knows the field we're working in, we will not accept it as a final working document. Generally the client doesn't have a good working knowledge of what we're doing, so they need help with this.

Of course, a lot depends on the scale of work. We're a little more casual with someone who just wants a simple blog using an off-the-shelf theme. But the risks on both sides are low.

The mistake I think a lot of potential web entrepreneurs who need coders and designers make is to assume that the first stages are just a selling job and therefore free. Immediately that removes from the game a lot of professional developers.

If you want to work on a relatively casual basis the only real way is to learn to do the specifying yourself and then hire your developers through agencies - make sure they're experienced. But they still can't rescue you from bad project management any more than a good plumber can work well on a poorly managed building site.

 

[creospace]

Please be assured that web designers have to put up with all sorts of cr*p from clients too. Many of my clients are only semi literate. They cannot spell and their grammar is deplorable. I am faced with publishing what they send me or correcting it. This all takes time but I don't charge for that either. Believe me, there are two sides to every coin.

Send it back and tell them it's full of mistakes.

We are moving towards a working method that is much like a chess game where we stop the clock on our part when a query goes to the customer and if they take a week to come back to us the estimated delivery date is extended by a week.

 

[creospace]

Our approach is that a client approaches us with a requirements list. We then have a meeting, often lasting a whole day... which they pay for!

How does that work then? Do you bill them before you go and do a quote?

Or add a fee to the quote and if one in 5 pay it then that's fine?