New unit splitting / 10 year empty shop

[dafcjim]

Hi there.

I am seeking some advice please.

1) I am looking at a unit that has 2 shops into one and a first floor unit above both. The property is listed to let and is addressed as 1-2 high street. For the entire unit it has a Rateable value of £23,000. There is one door to this unit in number 2.

I run two businesses and am looking to potentially split them into two separate. If the landlord agreed could I install a new shop front on the 1st shop and then have a revaluation.

I'd hope they would come down to 12k a year and then rate free. Is this a easy process?

2) There is a double unit in my town that has not been occupied for over twenty years but had new property owners in 2012. It remains boarded up with no market listing. I got ownership details from land registry. In the old days I was told people could go in and open up a shop if a building was empty for more then ten years. I don't know if this was/is still true? or even if it was a thing.

Thank you
Jamie

 

[japancool]

If someone answers the question, will you actually respond to them?

 

[WaveJumper]

Hi there.

I am seeking some advice please.

1) I am looking at a unit that has 2 shops into one and a first floor unit above both. The property is listed to let and is addressed as 1-2 high street. For the entire unit it has a Rateable value of £23,000. There is one door to this unit in number 2.

Would be surprised if the landlord would give you approval (but you never know) then of course you have the planners to deal with ........ so you wouldn't want to jump into this BEFORE you had all the approvals in place.

You would need to have completely two separate companies (in no way linked) there's plenty of threads on this topic and GOV advice if you do a quick Google.

I run two businesses and am looking to potentially split them into two separate. If the landlord agreed could I install a new shop front on the 1st shop and then have a revaluation.

I'd hope they would come down to 12k a year and then rate free. Is this a easy process?

2) There is a double unit in my town that has not been occupied for over twenty years but had new property owners in 2012. It remains boarded up with no market listing. I got ownership details from land registry. In the old days I was told people could go in and open up a shop if a building was empty for more then ten years. I don't know if this was/is still true? or even if it was a thing.

Never heard of such a thing and pretty sure the new owners would turf you straight out. There's probably long term plans for the site and having been in this game I can tell you it takes bloody years to get things rolling. Commercial property owners I learnt have to be pretty patient.

Thank you
Jamie

Lastly get PROPER legal advice from a commercial solicitor before you do anything.

 

[WaveJumper]

If someone answers the question, will you actually respond to them?

Or take the advice on board ?

 

[DoolallyTap]

Dream on! you don't say what the current lease expectation is but trying to get it down to £12000 including rates seems optimistic. Why ask questions here, go and talk to the agent or landlord.

 

[kulture]

Dream on! you don't say what the current lease expectation is but trying to get it down to £12000 including rates seems optimistic. Why ask questions here, go and talk to the agent or landlord.

I feel that you have misinterpreted the OP. They want to get the RV down to £12k for each unit. Not the RV PLUS rent. Either way it does not matter as the small property rate relief only applies if you have ONE property, and not 2 or 3.

 

[Picture Bute]

I feel that you have misinterpreted the OP. They want to get the RV down to £12k for each unit. Not the RV PLUS rent. Either way it does not matter as the small property rate relief only applies if you have ONE property, and not 2 or 3.

Is that the case in england and Wales then ? In Scotland it's combined RV up to £18000.

 

[Duke Fame]

Hi there.

I am seeking some advice please.

1) I am looking at a unit that has 2 shops into one and a first floor unit above both. The property is listed to let and is addressed as 1-2 high street. For the entire unit it has a Rateable value of £23,000. There is one door to this unit in number 2.

I run two businesses and am looking to potentially split them into two separate. If the landlord agreed could I install a new shop front on the 1st shop and then have a revaluation.

I'd hope they would come down to 12k a year and then rate free. Is this a easy process?

2) There is a double unit in my town that has not been occupied for over twenty years but had new property owners in 2012. It remains boarded up with no market listing. I got ownership details from land registry. In the old days I was told people could go in and open up a shop if a building was empty for more then ten years. I don't know if this was/is still true? or even if it was a thing.

Thank you
Jamie

I did exactly this, I took on a shop that had been unused for a long time, the landlord was the local council and we negotiated the rent from £17k a year to £1 a month!!!!. The problem was the rates, as one shop the rates made it unviable (they wonder why town centres are dead).


So. The answer was to act quickly, partition the unit quickly and convincingly (I literally plaster boarded the gap and put up a fake back wall to make both units small enough to come in within scope.

Make sure you have separate companies to be tenants, make sure they do not occupy any other building.

Make sure the lease allows a sub-let.

Get a gateway log in to request the change at VOA.

Keep telling the council that they need to send two separate bills for the two units and apply for Small Business rate relief – The council business rates dept are incredibly frustrating to deal with. I had court action pending despite the VOA arranging a visit to revalue.

Repaint the new units different colours to re-enforce the notion that they are separate, put up / make separate signage for the units.

 

[Newchodge]

Make sure you have separate companies to be tenants, make sure they do not occupy any other building.

What if both companies have the same shareholders/directors? Does that not make them associated?

 

[Duke Fame]

Dream on! you don't say what the current lease expectation is but trying to get it down to £12000 including rates seems optimistic. Why ask questions here, go and talk to the agent or landlord.

He wants to get the VOA valuation below £12k to qualify for SBRR and the building would be rate free.

It's perfectly reasonable, I did it with a shop in Stockport Town centre.

 

[Duke Fame]

What if both companies have the same shareholders/directors? Does that not make them associated?

No, it just needs to be a separate legal entity.

 

[Duke Fame]

I feel that you have misinterpreted the OP. They want to get the RV down to £12k for each unit. Not the RV PLUS rent. Either way it does not matter as the small property rate relief only applies if you have ONE property, and not 2 or 3.

Yes, however, he says he has 2 companies and in reality, just set up another.

 

[dafcjim]

I did exactly this, I took on a shop that had been unused for a long time, the landlord was the local council and we negotiated the rent from £17k a year to £1 a month!!!!. The problem was the rates, as one shop the rates made it unviable (they wonder why town centres are dead).


So. The answer was to act quickly, partition the unit quickly and convincingly (I literally plaster boarded the gap and put up a fake back wall to make both units small enough to come in within scope.

Make sure you have separate companies to be tenants, make sure they do not occupy any other building.

Make sure the lease allows a sub-let.

Get a gateway log in to request the change at VOA.

Keep telling the council that they need to send two separate bills for the two units and apply for Small Business rate relief – The council business rates dept are incredibly frustrating to deal with. I had court action pending despite the VOA arranging a visit to revalue.

Repaint the new units different colours to re-enforce the notion that they are separate, put up / make separate signage for the units.

Legend! Thank you

 

[Duke Fame]

Legend! Thank you

Just remember, to qualify for Small Buniness Rate relief, you must have separate companies to occupy the two units. They must not occupy any other premises (if they do, set up another company). Ensure that the lease allows a sub-let, you can simply get a side letter to the lease (signed by the landlord / agent) but the VOA and local council will need to see this.

For instance, when I did it, the landlord only wanted to deal with the main tenant so one tenant was responsible for both units, however, I got a side letter to allow a sublet and I sublet to another company, this was all dated the same day so the main company didn't have to pay any rates.