New Rules for online selling from 13th June.

[cjd]

If you sell online to consumers, this applies to you.

The Distance Selling Regulations (DSRs) change in June. They extend the cooling off period from 7 to 14 days but also give you the right not to refund until you have the goods back and you can deduct from the refund if the goods have been used (hurrah!).

If you use a telephone contact number it now has to be a basic rate one - 01, 02 or 03. (Or a mobile number, but that's not a good idea for other reasons - it makes you look small and amateur, unless you're a trade like a plumber.)

Consumer Rights Directive

We would like to take this opportunity to remind everyone that, effective from 13th June this year, any business that provides a contact number for their consumer customers must provide a ‘basic rate’ number instead. Essentially this means that consumers must be able to contact a business with which they have a contract for the same rates as they can call friends and family. The business should not earn revenue from the chosen contact number either. Therefore these businesses need to provide a geographic number (01, 02 or 03) or a mobile number. Any revenue share or premium rate (e.g. 09, 084, 087, 070) will not comply with this regulation.

For full details please see the guidance given by the Department for Business Innovation and Skills: https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...-additional-payments-regulations-guidance.pdf

We can help if you need another number ;-)

http://www.voipfone.co.uk/EP_UK_Telephone_Numbers.php

 

[Hash and Bash]

If you don't notify/provide the consumer with their DSR rights at the time of the sale then the period for cancellation is extended to 1 year.

 

[Hash and Bash]

Standard postage costs must be refunded under DSR returns.
However if the consumer selected a premium delivery service then only the standard shipping rate is refunded.

 

[Hash and Bash]

Delivery, to consumer, under DSR must now be within 30 days.

"Buy Now" buttons must now indicate that by clicking there is an obligation to pay.

Must start to draft my new terms & conditions to account for all the changes.

 

[Nuno]

Here is a guide to the new regs:
New Rules
It's only as applies to Food & Drink sectors, but is informative for all.

 

[FirstClassVirtualOffice]

Looking forward to the auto-ticked boxes disappearing. I wonder how much money the likes og godaddy, 123-reg, and others make from people not realising that some itmes were auto selected and ended up in their basket and paid for. Such a nuisance having to check and make sure boxes are unticked before you buy.

 

[deniser]

Standard postage costs must be refunded under DSR returns.
However if the consumer selected a premium delivery service then only the standard shipping rate is refunded.

Thank goodness!

I must have a read of these to see what they have done with EU postage.

 

[leemason]

Colin: What about 0870 numbers. They have not been revenue sharing numbers for a long time now (since 2009 I think) and are included in many inclusive call packages. I think they are charged the same as 03 numbers now aren't they?

 

[deniser]

I like also the new rule that before placing the order it must specify the total monthly billing cost and the minimum duration of the consumer's obligation for subscription based services as I have been caught out by these before thinking I was making a one off payment and then discovered I had inadvertently signed up to a monthly subscription.

 

[cjd]

Colin: What about 0870 numbers. They have not been revenue sharing numbers for a long time now (since 2009 I think) and are included in many inclusive call packages. I think they are charged the same as 03 numbers now aren't they?

This is what the guidance notes say (section J)

1. 5. Numbers with the prefix 0870 are not revenue sharing numbers. However, they can be higher than a geographic cost, and will vary depending on the tariff of the consumer’s
   telecom company. They would therefore not comply. Following OFCOM reforms in 2015 these numbers will permit revenue sharing and in any case would no longer comply with the basic rate requirements.

 

[dingbat]

I've got an 0845 which is local call cost. I presume that is okay?

 

[cjd]

I've got an 0845 which is local call cost. I presume that is okay?

No, sorry 0845 are excluded. You need an 01, 02, 03 or mobile. If you have an 0845 number you might be able to get the same number as an 0345.

 

[dingbat]

Thanks CJD. But reading the government's guidelines it simply says this:

Where traders offer telephone helplines
for consumers to contact them about
something they have bought, there should be a number available on which the
consumer can call for this purpose
at no more than the basic rate.

0845 charges no more than basic rate. Mobiles would certainly cost them more.

 

[cjd]

Thanks CJD. But reading the government's guidelines it simply says this:

'fraid not, it says this:

1. Where a telephone helpline is provided, the basic rate requirement means not charging more than a geographic or mobile rate. Consumers should generally expect to pay no more to phone a trader about something they have bought than to call a friend or relative, that is to say the simple cost of connection. This telephone number provided should not provide the trader with a contribution to their costs

2. The following numbers, if used by traders, would comply with the regulations:

Geographic numbers or numbers which are always set at the same rate, which usually begin with the prefix 01, 02, or 03;

Calls which can be free of charge to call, for example, 0800 and 0808 numbers. In certain circumstances charges to these numbers can be applied, for example, for those ringing from a mobile. However, OFCOM’s proposed reforms will mean these numbers will soon become free in all circumstances;

Mobile numbers, which usually begin with the prefix 07.

3. Premium rate numbers would not comply. They begin with the prefix 09.

4. Other revenue sharing numbers would not comply. These are numbers in which a portion of the call charge can be used to either provide a service or make a small payment to the trader. These usually have the prefix 084 or 0871, 0872 or 0873.

5. Numbers with the prefix 0870 are not revenue sharing numbers. However, they can be higher than a geographic cost, and will vary depending on the tariff of the consumer’s telecom company. They would therefore not comply. Following OFCOM reforms in 2015 these numbers will permit revenue sharing and in any case would no longer comply with the basic rate requirements.

6. OFCOM has ensured those wishing to change from a 0845 number have access to 03 numbers where the only change will be the substitution of the digit ‘3’ instead of the ‘8’ in the prefix.

0845 charges no more than basic rate. Mobiles would certainly cost them more.

Sorry, 0845 is a revenue sharing number

 

[cjd]

It's been commented elsewhere that this law applies to off-site sales too so it includes anybody installing stuff like boilers and kitchens - even house extensions....which is potentially nasty.

"I supplied and fitted a dishwasher for a customer under an off-premises contract. A week
later she contacted me and told me she no longer wanted the dishwasher, that it had not
been used and that she was returning it. Can she do that?
10. Yes she can provided she cancelled within 14 days of delivery of the dishwasher at her
home. Although plumbed in, the dishwasher can be removed. She must however pay you
the charge agreed for the installation service you provided. This is provided you had her
express consent to start the work in the cancellation period and told her she would have to
pay. She must also pay for the return of the dishwasher, if you told her she would be liable,
in advance and provided you did not deliver the dishwasher to her at the time the contract
was entered into. In addition, she will be liable for any diminished value if when the
dishwasher is returned it shows signs of use."

 

[Jon_B]

Thanks for this thread, very useful.

From the point of view of a customer, I hate companies that use 0845 numbers and don't offer a 01 02 or 03 alternative. Always means I have to jump on over to the saynoto0870 website to try and find one.

So it can be a turn off for some potential customers, it isn't unusual for people to just have a mobile and not a landline to call from these days.

 

[Louise Bradney]

Looking forward to the auto-ticked boxes disappearing. I wonder how much money the likes og godaddy, 123-reg, and others make from people not realising that some itmes were auto selected and ended up in their basket and paid for. Such a nuisance having to check and make sure boxes are unticked before you buy.

Whilst 123-reg may be an exemption, most of the large hosting companies are US based companies. These rules don't apply to them.

 

[cjd]

I mean this rule is applicable for all type of business? I am talking about Auction sites where people can buy or sell their products!

I’m a trader selling goods on ebay. Does the auction exemption apply to me?

7. No. The exemption is for goods sold at a public auction, which is defined as an auction which a consumer can, if they wish, attend in person.

eBay is therefore covered by the regulation

 

[Psl]

If you sell online to consumers, this applies to you.

The Distance Selling Regulations (DSRs) change in June. They extend the cooling off period from 7 to 14 days but also give you the right not to refund until you have the goods back and you can deduct from the refund if the goods have been used (hurrah!).

If you use a telephone contact number it now has to be a basic rate one - 01, 02 or 03. (Or a mobile number, but that's not a good idea for other reasons - it makes you look small and amateur, unless you're a trade like a plumber.)



We can help if you need another number ;-)

http://www.voipfone.co.uk/EP_UK_Telephone_Numbers.php

Why would it make your business look small and amateur to use a 01,02,03 etc number? These numbers were used before the 0845, 0870 etc were in existence and worked perfectly well.
0800 and 0300 numbers show that business wants your business, but not if they go straight to an automated system, it defeats the purpose of them! Get a human to answer the phone and convert the sale if you want the business that much, afterall you are paying for the call.

I for one, would like to see what area of the country the business, that I am potentially giving my money to, is based. How the phone is answered should show whether the business is run from a bedroom/garage/garden shed (nothing wrong with this at all) and that will enable me to make an informed decision on whether to complete the transaction or not.

What is to stop businesses using 07 K rate numbers - they are mobile numbers!

 

[Jeff FV]

Why would it make your business look small and amateur to use a 01,02,03 etc number?

I think that you have mis-interpreted cjd's post. He was, I think, saying thit makes your business look small and amateur if you use a mobile instead of an 01, 02, 03 number.

 

[Psl]

I think that you have mis-interpreted cjd's post. He was, I think, saying thit makes your business look small and amateur if you use a mobile instead of an 01, 02, 03 number.

Ahhh, Ok. But taken technology why would you want to use a landline if you can be contacted via a mobile number? I am mostly contacted via my mobile number but I do have a landline 0161 number that goes to answer machine if I am out and about, which I normally am. I can, to some extent, see the point being made if you work from home selling products via the internet.

 

[GraemeL]

Why would it make your business look small and amateur to use a 01,02,03 etc number?!

I think you are misreading cjd post? He does not say what you are quoting.

G

 

[Psl]

I think you are misreading cjd post? He does not say what you are quoting.

G

I get it! If you have a mobile number you look small and amateur unless your are plumber - I don't agree with that.

 

[GraemeL]

I get it! If you have a mobile number you look small and amateur unless your are plumber - I don't agree with that.

Having a bad day?
I simply pointed out that you had mis-quoted cjd. No mention of plumbers in my post nor seeking your opinion.

 

[David Griffiths]

Why would it make your business look small and amateur to use a 01,02,03 etc number? These numbers were used before the 0845, 0870 etc were in existence and worked perfectly well.

If you read the post again you will see that CJD is not suggesting that 01 02 03 numbers make you look small - he's referring to using a mobile number doing this, and I think that he's right.

 

[David Griffiths]

I get it! If you have a mobile number you look small and amateur unless your are plumber - I don't agree with that.

Graham beat me to the last one (note to self to read all of thread before replying!) but I take a different view of businesses with only a mobile. To me it means that it is, or is likely to be, a small business with no established base - possibly working from home. For tradesmen always out on site, that's not a problem but for other businesses it just (to me) points to be small.

I would never deal with a business that didn't put a landline and a business address on its paperwork. If something went wrong I'd want to know where to find them (and yes I know that you can use accommodation addresses and phone answering services)

 

[Jeff FV]

Graham beat me to the last one (note to self to read all of thread before replying!)

... and I said it two days ago.

 

[GraemeL]

As far as I can tell, there has been no mention that the new rules do not apply solely to on-line selling. They apply, with variations, to "all businesses that sell goods, services and digital content to consumers from their premises, at a distance and away from business premises".

I have attended a Trading Standards presentation on these and will start off a thread in General.

 

[cjd]

I get it! If you have a mobile number you look small and amateur unless your are plumber - I don't agree with that.

This is Ofcom research

• Crucially, 65%-78% of consumers either won't call, or are unlikely to call, telephone numbers used in adverts if they use these types of numbers: 0845 (65%), mobile (70%), 0870 (73%), 0844 (76%), 0871 (78%)."

There's a full explanation of how different numbers affect your business here:

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/choosing-a-telephone-number-for-your-business.46850/

 

[Chatter Gear]

Surely 0800 numbers are still ok???

 

[cjd]

Surely 0800 numbers are still ok???

Technically they're not for another 12 months for complicated reasons, but BIS have said they will be considered compliant anyway - so yes, they're fine.

 

[Psl]

This is Ofcom research

• Crucially, 65%-78% of consumers either won't call, or are unlikely to call, telephone numbers used in adverts if they use these types of numbers: 0845 (65%), mobile (70%), 0870 (73%), 0844 (76%), 0871 (78%)."

There's a full explanation of how different numbers affect your business here:

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/threads/choosing-a-telephone-number-for-your-business.46850/

Thanks for that CJD, interesting read and I understand your point more clearly now.

 

[scm5436]

Standard postage costs must be refunded under DSR returns.
However if the consumer selected a premium delivery service then only the standard shipping rate is refunded.

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding you, or the new regs, or if this is wrong. I read it that if they select a more expensive delivery option they don't get it (the expensive delivery) refunded....?

 

[Hash and Bash]

As I understand the new regulations, If a customer cancels under DSR and they have selected a premium delivery option, you only have to refund your standard delivery charge.

So for example: Your standard delivery charge is free delivery (Second class postage) but the customer selected next day delivery at extra cost - You would not refund any delivery charge.

 

[Deleted member 234910]

Hi all,

Just after some opinions on a specific clause of the CCR'S 2014. Here follows an extract;

"If the consumer wishes any services to commence within the 14 day cancellation period you should gain their explicit consent on a durable medium and advise them that if they later cancel they will need to pay for any services delivered until the point at which they cancel."

An email constitutes a durable medium here, however my question is;

By having something as simple as a "Place Your Order" button, supported by a statement beneath, something along the lines of, "By placing your order, you confirm you agree to our T's & C's," where the T's & C's then address the above extract therein, is this sufficient enough under the new regulations?

Or would the subsequent email acknowledgement of an order be where these regs are satisfied?

What are other people doing?

Maybe a tick box for the consumer next to the same generic statement?

Looking forward to hearing your views

Martin

 

[TODonnell]

- You just get a number that customers of your type of business would expect to see: A mobile for a plumber, an 0207 for a solicitor, an 0800 for a loan company.

- How is this regulation to be enforced? If I have 0845 numbers on my website and I continue with them, what is the likelihood of anyone prosecuting me? Or whatever the gummint does in these cases.

 

[cjd]

Why continue with a number that is both 'illegal' and customers don't understand and avoid calling?

As for what chance you have of being prosecuted, I suspect the most likely event would be if you fall out with a customer and he reports you to Ofcom. In that scenario you might automatically lose any hope of defending your position with the customer but Ofcom is more likely to send you a letter requesting that you comply than fine you outright.

 

[TODonnell]

So, not very likely. My point is that English people seem happy to comply with any and every regulation, regardless, and I think a more Franco-Italian attitude might suit when it comes to nit-picking laws.

Some people get frightened when they read that The Law says they have to stop breathing on alternate Thursdays because the Daily Mail has had a snit. They worry. A lot.

Frank Italia says "meh" and gets on with his business.