Moving to a new domain

[Bes]

Hi,

I have a website that was whacked pretty hard back in April by Google. (Unnatural links warning, etc), which happened due to some crappy SEO I had done.

Now with lessons learned, I want to try and do things right this time. I have relevant microsites ready, better content, better working and titles, and some quality backlinks built off guest blogging, and niche-relevant one-way links lined up. The problem is I have about 500 bad links from spammy blog networks that I cannot get rid of (as the content site owners have no contact details and the SEO guy seems to have disappeared).

What I am proposing to do is change the URL of my website- I have xxx.com, but I also have xxxxyy.com (2 letter difference). The meaning is the same, so the change, whilst not ideal, is a magic bullet fix for the current issue.

Is this the best plan? if so:

1) Is there any chance a 301 from xxx to xxxyy will carry the penalties across? (suggestion is NO, but I want to be sure)

2) Am I better off just putting a text link from xxx to xxxyy? (I have customers that still go to xxx.com so need to keep them up to date with the change)

3) What is the best way to manage the change without Google thinking there is a duplicate site? (i.e. de-index xxx.com and re-index as xxxyy.com) Can I use Google's migration tools, or is there danger in carrying penalties?

Thanks!

 

[Bes]

Can anyone advise please?

Thanks

 

[webgeek]

If you were building deep links, you can simply move the content on xxx/page1.html to xxx.page2.html. Do not 301 the old page to the new one, but just start building on the new page. By 404'ing the old page, you will (within a matter of 8-10 weeks or so) have disavowed all links to xxx/page1.html. This enables you to keep the branding and social all intact.

If you were building homepage links, then the above doesn't work does it? Instead you're left with either waiting for Google to release their disavow tool (like Bing), or making a new site.

If you're going to make the new site then the best advice I have would be:
1) Rewrite the content on the new site so that it's unique
2) Do NOT 301 the old site to the new one

 

[Boydie]

I agree with Webgeek, if it's a new site, start fresh and begin by building your brand, ie connect all the social boxes and generate links due to decent content

 

[sweta]

With domain migration history of domain also carry forward to new domain. If your intention is to get rid of google Penalty then dont 301 any of your xx.com pages to new one.

Better think about how you will redirect xx.com traffic to new one. May be no-follow banners.

 

[pete.mcal]

If you were building deep links, you can simply move the content on xxx/page1.html to xxx.page2.html. Do not 301 the old page to the new one, but just start building on the new page. By 404'ing the old page, you will (within a matter of 8-10 weeks or so) have disavowed all links to xxx/page1.html. This enables you to keep the branding and social all intact.

If you were building homepage links, then the above doesn't work does it? Instead you're left with either waiting for Google to release their disavow tool (like Bing), or making a new site.

If you're going to make the new site then the best advice I have would be:
1) Rewrite the content on the new site so that it's unique
2) Do NOT 301 the old site to the new one

I agree that he/she should not 301 redirect from the old site to the new, or link to the pages internally from any hit pages either on that matter if he creates new pages on the existing site.

However if the site has been hit for unnatural linking practices the penalty usually extends further than the specific page that links were pointing at (however this depends on the number of indexed pages and the linking practices to those other pages), Pretty much gone are the days of isolated page penalties, since penguin (algorithm update) any penalty is much more likely to affect the entire site.

I think in most cases the easiest way to do this would be to set up a new site with fresh content.

PS when setting up the new site DO NOT host it on the same IP as the old site this WILL link them and may carry across penalties. In addition to this you may want to register the new domain to a different address or another name (or pay for private whois from day 1).

Need any more info give me a shout

 

[Bes]

Thanks all- not sure about moving IPs though? Is that a widely thought of as being required?

Most websites are on shared IPs and I cannot imagine Google is going to whack everything on a certain IP just because one account was 'bad'?

But yes, no 301s, etc seems sensible.

Also does anyone really think that disavowing bad links will remove penalties? I don't believe it will? but if it doesn't, what real purpose does it serve?

Thanks

 

[ThomasBuckland]

Hi Bes, you seem to know what you are talking about when it comes to SEO, but if I were you, I would not make any connecting between your old website and your new one as if you have heard of link juice? There is also bad link juice, think of it like poison, we can all survive a 0.1% poison concentration this is one bad link in 1,000. Even a 1% poison concentration is usually okay, you may be effected (in the SERPs) but you should be able to come through it with just a few negative effects.

If we talk about 10% poision ratios, now we are in dangerous territory. You (your site) may not be able to survive this high a tolerance to poison and hence you may get smashed by google....

Poison = bad links just to anyone not sure.

Hope that metaphor helped.
Thanks.
Tom.

 

[pete.mcal]

Thanks all- not sure about moving IPs though? Is that a widely thought of as being required?

Most websites are on shared IPs and I cannot imagine Google is going to whack everything on a certain IP just because one account was 'bad'?

But yes, no 301s, etc seems sensible.

Also does anyone really think that disavowing bad links will remove penalties? I don't believe it will? but if it doesn't, what real purpose does it serve?

Thanks

Yeah it actually does play a part in sites rankings. It's a case of volume though, so you're correct that 1 bad site is unlikely to bring down a bunch of good sites.

As for most sites being on shared hosting this is true, but the shared part is usually only the A/B part of the IP address, the C class is nearly always unique for paid hosting.

Google will link sites on the same C class IP, if a large proportion of them are using the same unnatural linking methods then it's likely that other sites will be downgraded. This does not necessarily mean the "good" sites will be hit with explicit penalties, but you might see a drop in their SERP rankings.

 

[pete.mcal]

Also does anyone really think that disavowing bad links will remove penalties? I don't believe it will? but if it doesn't, what real purpose does it serve?

Thanks

Also a note on this point. Disavow will not take away existing penalties for old links. But it is likely that if you report bad links within days of creation BEFORE you have been hit with a penalty google will ignore them and spare you.

 

[Casper Gray]

Hi Bes,
I see you have had a lot of advice over the last few days, but if it is still useful, here is mine:

The best option is all cases is to try to get the bad links removed and then file a reconsideration request in Google Webmaster Tools. It sounds as if this won't work for you because you can't get those links removed. Moving to a new domain might therefore be your only option. In answer to your questions:

1. You can't be 100% sure that the penalty won't carry across to the new domain if you 301 redirect the old domain to it. Because effectively now those bad links will point to the new domain. The reason for doing the 301 is to pass the link juice to the new domain, and for this exact reason Google might penalise you for it.

2. This would be a simple way of redirecting people. You could even use a temporary redirect (302) on the old domain to send visitors directly to the new domain without passing any link benefit/penalty across

3. As long as you take the old site offline then you should be fine. Googles tools shouldn't pass any penalty over as long as you are not trying to carry over the benefit of dodgy links (see point 1).

 

[Bes]

Thanks for all the advice so far - very good stuff

Ok I have just realised that in fact pretty much ALL the links ARE in fact to subpages that I can just rename! It was only when analysing the hundreds of links and working out where they were going, I saw this.

If I change the names and 404 the old pages, will Google drop the links from GWT?

If so, I have reasonable grounds to expect a reconsideration request to be successful I guess?

Thanks!

 

[Bes]

Thanks for all the advice so far - very good stuff

Ok I have just realised that in fact pretty much ALL the links ARE in fact to subpages that I can just rename! It was only when analysing the hundreds of links and working out where they were going, I saw this.

If I change the names and 404 the old pages, will Google drop the links from GWT?

If so, I have reasonable grounds to expect a reconsideration request to be successful I guess?

Thanks!

Anymore thoughts on this appreciated

Sent from my HTC One X using UK Business Forums

 

[terryuk]

I redirected an effected site two weeks ago ish. At first sights the primary domain was ranking well for lots of terms, and then got hit and lost rankings and didn't rank for it's website name either.

After 301 redirecting to a more an old 2001 domain name on topic it appears to be OK, the primary website was less than a year old so I would expect another sandbox before back to the money or the penalty will creep up - I will have to wait and see

 

[pete.mcal]

I think now that you have analysed your backlinks and know that most are pointed to your deep pages we have a solvable problem.

IMO your decision depends on whether you NEED to rebuild this site quickly or if you can afford to wait. For example if this is the site for a brick and mortar business you have a more difficult situation than if it's an info site about acne problems.

Creating new pages/404ing the old ones will work over time but it won't be an instant fix (not that there is one).

I think going with webgeek's advice is very sensible for the situation that we now know you are in.

 

[Simon-M]

I have heard that a request to remove penalties has resulted in worse penalties. I have also heard that if you can be found for your main brand name then you have not had a penalty as such but you have been hit by an algo change that can improve if you do other work.

What do you think about that?

 

[terryuk]

I have heard that a request to remove penalties has resulted in worse penalties. I have also heard that if you can be found for your main brand name then you have not had a penalty as such but you have been hit by an algo change that can improve if you do other work.

What do you think about that?

I would forget any communications with begging for mercy. I don't have WMT on half my sites either so they can do what they want with the hate letters

Well generally if you can't find your site by brand name then your hit with some kind of penalty or deindexed. -40 whatever

I've spoke to people still on page 1 'hit with a penalty' Just dropped a few positions