MLM dying in the UK?

[gibby]

Usually in a recession MLM firms get a big increase of new distributors, from people needing to earn an extra income or replacinging an income.

Im wondering why this hasn't happened with this recession as things seem to be going backwards for many MLM firms.

As an example, just in the last few months Euphony has gone bust & recently Eco/Bio Flow has announced its dropping the mlm side of the business.

I used to get approached 2 or 3 times a week for new mlm opportunities & this has totally stoppped. Even the Kleeneze & Betterware catalogues have dissappeared in our areas.

Could it be mlm has had its day in the UK?


G

 

[cjd]

I doubt we could be that lucky

 

[Beachcomber]

I think many MLM companies have shot their distributors in the foot by selling direct to customers online.

I've seen betterware and avon catalogues promoting the websites, probably follows that most other companies are doing the same.

 

[gibby]

I agree, if I were a distributor it would really annoy me.
Betterware isnt an mlm organisation & I can see why they take orders direct as many of the distributors they recruit don't last very long.

Avon is one of the few firms getting things right. They went mlm only recently & you don't have to take on the mlm side when you join.
I do know of a couple of guys making £20k+ a month from Avon.
Even in a recession women still buy make up.
Almost every female rep I have met spends their commission on makeup anyway - which can't be bad for the company.

G

 

[willitbe]

I agree, if I were a distributor it would really annoy me.
Betterware isnt an mlm organisation & I can see why they take orders direct as many of the distributors they recruit don't last very long.

Avon is one of the few firms getting things right. They went mlm only recently & you don't have to take on the mlm side when you join.
I do know of a couple of guys making £20k+ a month from Avon.
Even in a recession women still buy make up.
Almost every female rep I have met spends their commission on makeup anyway - which can't be bad for the company.

G

I think you have got your making mixed up with your taking...

 

[gibby]

I think you have got your making mixed up with your taking...

nope - they are turning over in excess of 250k a month through thier teams & earning 20K+ a month each.

G

 

[Bri]

As an example, just in the last few months Euphony has gone bust

I havent seen anything about this and cant find any reports either? Can you expand on this as I was only talking to a customer who'd signed up with them last week? I dont work for Euphony by the way.

People are always interested in saving money.

 

[willitbe]

nope - they are turning over in excess of 250k a month through thier teams & earning 20K+ a month each.

G

Earning more than Avons top earners on less turnover too!..

http://www.sofeminine.co.uk/make-up/avon-lady-earns-250000-d8821.html

 

[Tej]

Love it when figures are bandied about on hearsay

my friends earn x amount... must be true.. cos they said so

 

[willitbe]

Love it when figures are bandied about on hearsay

my friends earn x amount... must be true.. cos they said so

Me too. I wasn't knocking the OP though, just don't believe everything you are told and moreso, refrain from posting on Forums unless you have the facts.

And I suspect these are the couple OP is referring to.

 

[gibby]

I havent seen anything about this and cant find any reports either? Can you expand on this as I was only talking to a customer who'd signed up with them last week? I dont work for Euphony by the way.

People are always interested in saving money.

Euphony went bust & as usual the management bought the firm back, keeping the customers & dumping the network. I am a Euphony customer & havn't had any notification about it.
They were in trouble as the firms was sold some time back & the new management made a mess of it.

Some parts of the company are still in administration & being handled by FTI consulting of London.
more info here

 

[garyk]

Its been on the decline for years I reckon, probably because lots of companies start selling stuff that is over-priced compared to what is in the shops or is a complete joke product (healthy chocolate? - an oxymoron if ever there was one). These established MLM businesses are realisign that to have a sustainable business they have to use what has been in place for 80/90 years, direct response marketing/advertising.

 

[powerlifer]

healthy chocolate isnt an oxymoron really raw chocolate is very good for health in moderation of course, highest amount of antioxidents per weight, rich in minerals like magnesium, not to mention the precursors for mood etc.

 

[Brasso]

I got caught up in Amway as a distributor about 15 years ago. Was really pleased when I found out the dti was winding them up and the Scrivens had been dumpled. Anybody else waste time and money with Amway / IBS. Read here if you did, http://www.jerryandmandy.co.uk/

 

[gibby]

I never liked amway as no one was willing to prove any income.
IBS was a scam as they were making more money from selling books & tapes than from the income from amway - ie - moving product.

There were several of the sub systems running & slowly amway closed them down one by one. In the UK they were slow to do this & got stung but the DTI, which really should have been done sooner. Im sure amway sued IBS on one occassion & did close down many distributor sites & groups that were running systems like this.

g

 

[Grencolur]

Hi Guys

We have Amway in Oz and I was speaking to a travel agent the other day and she mentioned it was going as strong as ever because one of her friends was swimming in the money apparently. She didn't mention any figures but that's what she stated. I was part of Amway once and made some money but was not for me.
Around where I live in Oz there has certainly been no decline in MLM and to be quite honest, I don't think you will ever see MLM disappear especially when you have the likes of Donald Trump praising it and looking at becoming involved in it also.
After jumping from program to program in the last 12 months, I have learnt the hard way that you will get nowhere doing that. To make the big $$, you need to get into the big dollar programs which usually carry big price ticket entry fees. However there is a system out there that I am happy to share with anyone, that allows you to enter these huge paying programs for just a one off payment of $25.
Feel free to PM me if interested.

Cheers
Tony

 

[Ashley_Price]

MLM as an industry isn't in decline, it's usually the company that has changed, but there are still well known MLMs that are booming - Utility Warehouse and Herbalife (Arriba Weightloss) are just two.

We work for a client that has the contract for printing a lot of the Herbalife stationery, and it seems the numbers are increasing.

 

[cjd]

However there is a system out there that I am happy to share with anyone, that allows you to enter these huge paying programs for just a one off payment of $25.
Feel free to PM me if interested.

Isn't there always.

 

[Ashley_Price]

There are people who have made a lot of money from MLM firms - but so many people see them as get rich quick schemes.

I think that some of the companies do themselves no good by not ensuring that their distributors have "districts" or territories; I've mentioned before on UKBF about the number of Utility Warehouse reps that turn up at networking events.

Also, they make it sound a lot easier than it actually is. The phrase I think is the most misleading is "work when you want" or "work in your own time" - this is utter cobblers! You have to work when your customers are available.

If you're a mother/father who has the hours of 10-2:30 free because your child is at school, what's the point of becoming a distributor of an MLM firm where your target market is not going to be around until early evening - just when you're doing the tea for the family?

 

[Brasso]

My turn for a Friday Rant against MLM and all it stands for

I never liked amway as no one was willing to prove any income.
IBS was a scam as they were making more money from selling books & tapes than from the income from amway - ie - moving product.

g

I don't think that this is just 1 Amway sub system, this is the Amway business in general. Products bought mostly by distributors and their families (who feel sorry for them). I have yet to hear of an MLM business that you make good money selling the product. This is because there are better sales channels for genuine products and MLM is the domain of shabby products and shabby practises. Sorry, but there you are.

Hi Guys

We have Amway in Oz and I was speaking to a travel agent the other day and she mentioned it was going as strong as ever because one of her friends was swimming in the money apparently.

However there is a system out there that I am happy to share with anyone, that allows you to enter these huge paying programs for just a one off payment of $25.
Feel free to PM me if interested.

Cheers
Tony

'Swimming in Money'. That is a really vague term and people who use terms like this are usually lieing, not fibbing but bare faced lieing. Please, ask Jerry and Mandy Scriven if they are 'swimming in money'. Ask Gerry Harties, ask all the other guys who made sack loads of money selling books and tapes and other 'tools' whilst saying that the 'tools' were non profit. No one makes money from MLM through distribution, no one! Who is this mystery person who told you of a mystery person, who is swimming in money. Wait, I heard this one, the 3 bears come in after or something?
As regards the MLM for $25 for a business, I have magic beans for only £10. Please PM for details... Give me a break.

MLM as an industry isn't in decline, it's usually the company that has changed, but there are still well known MLMs that are booming - Utility Warehouse and Herbalife (Arriba Weightloss) are just two.

Please back up this statement with fact.

Personal Note:
This forum should be for people seeking genuine advice, not for snake oil saleman to push their nonesence. Please, anyone reading this thread, Google whichever business you are thinking of and then add 'bad' or 'rubbish' on the end and see what comes up.

If anyone has a question I will answer it on this forum for all to see, will the other MLM guys do that or do they want a PM.

Thanks
Phil

 

[Ashley_Price]

Please back up this statement with fact.

Well, have a look on the websites of the firms I talked about. I also mentioned about the number of calls we had for a client are increasing who has the contract for printing Herbalife stationery (flyers, posters, certificates, etc.).

Personal Note:
This forum should be for people seeking genuine advice, not for snake oil saleman to push their nonesence. Please, anyone reading this thread, Google whichever business you are thinking of and then add 'bad' or 'rubbish' on the end and see what comes up.

Erm, should someone who has joined this month and made 34 posts be telling others (like myself) who have been on here for two years and have made over 3000 posts, what the forums are for?

 

[Brasso]

Firstly, in regards to

Erm, should someone who has joined this month and made 34 posts be telling others (like myself) who have been on here for two years and have made over 3000 posts, what the forums are for?

My apologies, I got carried away in my rant. Of course I shouldn't be telling anyone regardless of their time on this forum what it should be used for or what they should be doing. Any member who has put time and effort into this community who is offended by this comment, please accept my apologies.

Secondly (in non rant mode)

Well, have a look on the websites of the firms I talked about. I also mentioned about the number of calls we had for a client are increasing who has the contract for printing Herbalife stationery (flyers, posters, certificates, etc.).

'We work for a client that has the contract for printing a lot of the Herbalife stationery, and it seems the numbers are increasing. '

I'm sorry, but that is not evidence. That is just another story. It is also a story in isolation that cannot be validated in any way, not even by you and you are the source of the story.

Let's say we can validate this single story and we could confirm that herbalife has increased their printing order with one of their print suppliers. That doesn't prove that herbalife is growing or going strong.

Re Websites:

I did have a look at the company websites and found no evidence that they were booming or even growing. I have had another look and found that according to the Herbalife website the Herbalife Stock Price for the last 5 years is about the same (took a real plunge from $50 to $10 about a year ago, but apart from that...). This of course doesn't mean that distributor numbers aren't growing, but I still fail to find a single MLM distributor in any business that can prove they make any kind of money from selling products or helping their down line. They seem to either make vague statements like 'swimming in money'. Ask one any question that gets to close the bone and vague replies will flow.

Utility Warehouse website doesn't have any figures on its website that I can find to demonstrate that it is booming or growing. I cannot find a share price so it is probably a private business with no public audited accounts.

For anyone in 2 minds, Google 'Utility Warehouse Scam' and 'Herbalife Scam'. After you have read some of the experiences of other people and still want in then please PM me re the magic beans

If I am totally wrong and hebalife is a great business with great products (or Utility Warehouse or any other for that matter) then please offer links to their website on this forum with an outline of the business and how it works and how we can all make money. Invite questions and answer them openly (not via PM). If you are a part of these businesses put up some information about your income from it, your experiences good and bad. If it is a sound business that can stand up to scrutiny on this forum then you will have people signing up in droves. I will also publicly apologise for my error.


With Kind Regards
Phil

 

[Ashley_Price]

Phil,

I still fail to find a single MLM distributor in any business that can prove they make any kind of money from selling products or helping their down line

Would Herbalife have been going for 30 years if it wasn't making money?

Would Avon have been going since 1886 if it wasn't making money; as well as having a philanthropic arm to their business? Avon was also ranked 255 in the Fortune 500 - with profits of $875.3 million. See HERE

Telecom Plus (the owner of Utility Warehouse) has been going since 1997. Checking Reuters, last year Telecom Plus had net cash of £20 million! See HERE.

Those two examples alone suggest to me that they ARE making "any kind of money".

As for distributors, one example is THIS LADY who sells Avon products.

 

[gibby]

If you look on the internet you will always find good & bad reviews about any mlm company. Which are true is hard to say as we all have different opinions.

I did Kleeneze for several years and made a living out of it but never made great money. I did sponsor alot of ppl and some of them did better than I did & others who were too lazy to switch the TV off called it a scam.

The other thing to take into account is that each mlm business is very differnet in differnet countries.

Take Amway for example. Ive never found anyone making money from it in the UK but have met several foreign distributors making big money in the US & Australia.

FLP is the same. I have found several ppl making £500 a month but the few making really good money have successful businesses abroad, bringing money into the UK

Whenever I have looked at an mlm busines I always ask for proof of turnover & income from the person showing me the business & a successful upline. Usually I do find plenty of ppl "faking it till they make it" but on asking for copies of income statements, info from the company they shut up.
You have to treat it the same as if you were spending alot of money on a franchise, speaking to others who are doing it, how they make thier money, the company accounts etc.
Just because you are putting a small amount of money into it dosent mean you shouldnt treat it as a business, & dont get pulled in by the hype.

The other big thing to ask is how do you move the product & then find ppl doing it. Too many mlms in the UK have trouble selling the product on to customers leaving distributors with useless product.

If you look at herbalife in the UK, the products are totally overprice and can be bought for a fraction of the price on the internet from distributors trying to get rid of it before it goes out of date.

Possiby the Bristish are hopeless at MLM as it works so much better in other countries.

G

 

[Brasso]

Totally unfamiliar with the Avon distributor selling mode, however the Daily Mail article is strong evidence that money can be made in an honest way using this business, but this is 1 success story in 1 business and that is the first time anyone has shown me even anecdotal evidence to actual real success through personal and downline product sales. The article does seem to suggest that in the main this is not multi level business and that many distributors have a direct relationship with Avon (making it supplier / retailer). I would be interested to know how many Avon Ladies as a percentage of the total have an upline that is not direct to Avon.

Telecom Plus Share price - About £3 for about 2 years - not currently booming. How much business do they do through MLM? I can't find anybody saying that they have a large group of downline that they support and that they are doing well. I can't seem to find any info on this as a MLM business. The Telecom Plus service has mixed reviews which is to be expected (but they are recommended by Which?), but I am struggling to find any positive people regarding the MLM aspect to it (which is unusual in a MLM business). Lots of upset and angry distributors though (which is exactly what you would expect).

And to my final point. My whole rant was kicked off by the 'PM me for $25' guy and 'There are people who have made a lot of money from MLM firms' and the 'Swimming in Money' guy. My issue is this, stop telling me people have made a lot of money from MLM firms in really vague terms and show me something that I can actually use to make a sound business decision. I don't care if Herbalife doubles their share price or turnover or profit this year or next (as it goes, it doesn't look like they have and neither have Telecom Plus), that could just mean that they are really sly and able to sign up loads of distributors who all take up the service ('cause we can't be seen to be negative now, can we) and that information doesn't help me as a distributor anyway. Show me distributors with a large successful downline and supportive upline making money.

What I should have done is just simply asked 'Which People?' and left it at that. You have shown me 1 person in a newspaper article rather than people.

Gibby, you say you have found people abroad who are making money, but who are these people? How do you know they are making money? I have found lots of people who were making money out of Amway (Mike Kennedy, Jerry Scriven, Pat Gregory and so on), but not through selling product and supporting their downline, they made money by pushing tools not product (as you have said earlier). I would want to see real info that I can check out.

The bottom line is this. If the business is any good and the product is any good and people are going to make money selling product and building a downline, if you'll happily answer any questions openly, honestly and on a forum such as this, then you'll get through a stack of sign up pads a mile high. You don't need to say I know a guy who brother's cat is swimming in money, you'd only need to show the plan.

 

[picha]

I know a super easy MLM if anyone is interested. Its 100% online, you dont even need any customers and its free to start. I dont know if im allowed to mention it here though.

 

[Ashley_Price]

There is plenty of success stories out there, but it does seem rather than doing some research yourself you're wanting everyone else to prove it to you.

I am amazed though that you are continuing this when your first line shows how little you know about the subject if you are "totally unfamiliar" with the Avon distributor selling mode - probably one the most widely advertised ones there are. Perhaps you don't remember the old adverts "Ding dong! Avon Calling" which summed it up perfectly.

 

[Brasso]

There is plenty of success stories out there, but it does seem rather than doing some research yourself you're wanting everyone else to prove it to you.

I am amazed though that you are continuing this when your first line shows how little you know about the subject if you are "totally unfamiliar" with the Avon distributor selling mode - probably one the most widely advertised ones there are. Perhaps you don't remember the old adverts "Ding dong! Avon Calling" which summed it up perfectly.

"Ding dong! Avon Calling" which summed it up perfectly , no further explainaition of the Avon business required. I remember now.

Perhaps 'totally unfamiliar' is misleading, I am aware of Avon and that it is only sold by distributors, I guess I am unaware of the MLM aspect to it. Oddly enough, no one has ever asked to be a part of it.

As regards other poeple proving things for me, your right of course. Why should you substantiate anything you say? Make all the wild claims you like and then refuse to follow up or answer questions about it.

To be clear, I have a good deal of experience of Amway, my specific experience of other MLMs is from the outside only, because I have never signed up to another one. I have shared war stories with other ex MLM distibutors over the years.

Seriously, if you have a good MLM business then share it. I can accept when I am wrong.

 

[picha]

"Ding dong! Avon Calling" which summed it up perfectly , no further explainaition of the Avon business required. I remember now.

Perhaps 'totally unfamiliar' is misleading, I am aware of Avon and that it is only sold by distributors, I guess I am unaware of the MLM aspect to it. Oddly enough, no one has ever asked to be a part of it.

As regards other poeple proving things for me, your right of course. Why should you substantiate anything you say? Make all the wild claims you like and then refuse to follow up or answer questions about it.

To be clear, I have a good deal of experience of Amway, my specific experience of other MLMs is from the outside only, because I have never signed up to another one. I have shared war stories with other ex MLM distibutors over the years.

Seriously, if you have a good MLM business then share it. I can accept when I am wrong.

Ive got a good one. Am I allowed to post it here?

 

Many MLM / affiliate companies have unfair price plans, they make it difficult for people to earn. It should be as simple as e.g. - Product costs £20 refer a friend get £12. Simple. But they don't do something like that, they make it difficult.

 

[picha]

The one i've got is in theory extremely easy. You dont even need any customers because your downline are in effect your customers. Building a downline seems to be the hardest part though.

 

[JElder]

My MD is starting on one, and I have been looking at some figures for her.

Do all MLM schemes have hopelessly complex remuneration packages? There is no way to work out expected income, even if you estimate sales, as so much of it depends on outside factors.

 

[garyk]

I know a super easy MLM if anyone is interested. Its 100% online, you dont even need any customers and its free to start. I dont know if im allowed to mention it here though.

Your're right you ain't! And thats the problem with these threads, the MLM trolls turn up and start peddling their wares.

 

[picha]

Your're right you ain't! And thats the problem with these threads, the MLM trolls turn up and start peddling their wares.

I take it u dont want to know then?

 

[jane holder]

Hi, I am new to this forum, infact to any forum, I am however involved in an MLM company that is thriving in this recession, and we are all having a geat time building our businesses.

Jane

 

[Lorro2]

I've never heard of MLM and suspect most people have not either so it looks like it was never alive in the first place.

 

[willitbe]

Hi, I am new to this forum, infact to any forum, I am however involved in an MLM company that is thriving in this recession, and we are all having a geat time building our businesses.

Jane

.... Good on Ya!!!

 

[scotmum]

One of my biggest bugbears with these MLM companies is that they often target mums. They make these claims about working around your children, or even taking your children with you to parties. The products are often over priced - take one of the main book MLMs, for example. The party hosts have to sell their books at RRP in order to make a tiny profit. Why would anyone buy from these distributors when they can buy them at at least half the price on Amazon with free delivery or even buy them 3 for 2 on the high street. These companies target women and more specifically mums but as one poster mentioned previously, it is very difficult to estimate earnings which can often be below the minimum wage once P&P for items has been paid, the starter pack, marketing materials, display stands, petrol, parking, childcare, stall hire etc have been purchased.

 

[Draugen]

I tried MLM once with Utility Warehouse, and gave up pretty damn quickly (I guess that makes me a quitter and someone who doesn't want to succeed). It was a horrible setup. The blatant ripoff printing costs for promo materials, the rubbish peddled about having the cheapest rates etc, which isn't even remotely true, and then "sponsors" who kept phoning me telling me I should be selling UW to customers of my existing business (I call this "pissing them off") and even suggesting I focus on UW and let my existing business fester!

Never again!

 

[picha]

Mine is free by the way. The way money is generated is extremely easy too. The only remaining challenge is recruiting people.