Maplin owe us money

samuel5

Free Member
Apr 25, 2010
376
33
Hi all,

Sad news about Maplin but they actually owe us a lot of money.

They told us last week they would not be paying us as all payments were on hold.
They even had the cheek to send a new order through this week!

What happens now please as I don’t really understand the administration process?

Also, If I walked into one of the larger stores, filled up a shopping trolley with products they buy from us and walked out without paying - would that be theft as technically they have not paid for the goods?
Would make a good YouTube video!

Thanks

Sam
 
Contact the administrators about the debt. They will add your debt to the pile (if they haven't already) and when they can disburse money to creditors they will. Months time, possibly longer.
You will likely be one of many owed including probably HMRC.


Do you have a claim on the goods?
 
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As above contact the administrators....

" Zelf Hussain, Toby Scott Underwood and Ian David Green of PricewaterhouseCoopers have been appointed as joint administrators of Maplin Electronics Limited "
 
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1. Contact the administrator and they will add you to the list of creditors.
2. The administrator will then go through the company books looking for money and assets so that this can be paid to creditors. They may try to recover money owed to the company in order to add that to the pile.
3. They will recount the money again to double or triple check exactly how much money is available to pay creditors. In fact they will continue to check and recheck until their fees for the work done is almost but not quite exactly the same as the total amount the company has.
4. The administrator will pay their own fees first, in full.
5. The £4.50 remaining will be distributed evenly between all the creditors who, as per DavidWH's post above, won't be able to cash the cheques without it actually costing them more than they will get.
6. You will frame the cheque and put it on the wall or video yourself burning it and post the video to Youtube.
 
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Also, If I walked into one of the larger stores, filled up a shopping trolley with products they buy from us and walked out without paying - would that be theft as technically they have not paid for the goods?
Would make a good YouTube video!

Afraid that this approach would create more problems for you than the debt.

Administrators are appointed to act on behalf of the creditors of the business to secure and realise what they can.

As others have said, if you have a title retention clause to your goods, you need to establish your claim with the administrators as soon as possible - though initially don't expect a fast answer or return of the stock. When I was in a similar situation I ended up going to the warehouse myself to pick and recover the goods, and had a fight to get the administrators to permit that as well.

In any case, prepare all the paperwork to establish your debt with the administrators - they will usually contact you with information about the usual creditors meetings etc as you will be on the accounts payable ledgers along with a lot more suppliers like yourselves.

You will have to jump through hoops to get the stock returned.... and if its gone out to branches its probably better to write it off as a loss and hope there is something left when the preferential creditors have been paid out, although realistically this is unlikely.

Afraid it doesnt look good for you though.
 
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Get your claim in with the administrator ASAP! Then call them and make sure they've acknowledged it. You could be in a 12 month process or longer with potentially little at the end. You may want to write it off or certainly make a provision for accounting purposes.
 
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Maplin's net assets in 2014 were £166m. Just two years later, they were less than £20m and falling rapidly. Turnover was steady, yet stagnant, but their liabilities continued to climb steadily. Their imminent demise stood out a mile. The whole thing was built upon a huge bubble of debt.

They are not the first and they will not be the last.

Those solid looking B&M businesses of Great Britain are often just debt bubbles. It's like looking at some Flash-Harry in a new car, wearing an Armani suit, a Rolex watch and living in a large house behind automatic wrought-iron gates. The house belongs to the mortgage company, the clothing was all bought on credit and the car belongs to the finance company.

You are looking at a High Street and retail parks full of rented shops, filled with stock bought on credit, manned by staff on minimum wage and every inch of those businesses is covered in debt.

Once again - NOW is the time to perform due diligence on your suppliers and customers. If they want 90 days to pay, ask yourself why. Why are they coming to YOU for credit - why can't they go to the bank? Do they own the shops outright, or did they sneak-in a sale-and-lease-back deal, like some dodgy tax avoidance scheme involving a movie that will never get made?

These companies loaded up on cheap credit. Now those tickets have to be paid and the Angel of Death (aka the administrator!) is hovering over them. They are all, large and small, wriggling this way and that, trying to to survive. Don't get caught with them!
 
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It might be an idea to look at all the other companies you currently lend money to. See if you need to reduce / end the credit facility.

Was there no indication for you that Maplins was in trouble any time in the past year or so?
 
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As others have said, if you have a title retention clause to your goods, you need to establish your claim with the administrators as soon as possible - though initially don't expect a fast answer or return of the stock. When I was in a similar situation I ended up going to the warehouse myself to pick and recover the goods, and had a fight to get the administrators to permit that as well.

I hope your Retention of Title clause is watertight. Administrators are bastards and will challenge even the best drawn ROT clauses. When you communicate with them in writing today make sure that you emphasise that you expect payment in full for any stock they sell or dispose of which is not returned to you.

I was probably the only supplier to Clintons who got paid in full even for the stock that the new owners dumped in skips.
 
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I pulled the retention of title clause on some products and it turns out the landlord seized the goods sold them on auction and took the cash - I was trying to explain it was not theirs to sell as actually the goods were on sale or return. May as well have been talking to a brick wall. Good luck here whether your retention of title toilet paper is worth anything at all.

Fact is you got the administrators and you won't see a cent there I am afraid. Maplin will no doubt have preferential creditors / debentures and personal guarantees - after the staff and all of these guys - a slice of pie (if any) is divided up on multiple companies / people.

Write it off and move on = it is not even worth your energy
 
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By the way, they might be bought out of adminstration but personally - I would not touch Maplin with a barge pole as an investor. On the surface they looked like they were going down (having walked into these stores before and seen how empty they always are is pretty obvious).

I hope you were joking about loading up the cart - you will get arrested for that.
 
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I pulled the retention of title clause on some products and it turns out the landlord seized the goods sold them on auction and took the cash - I was trying to explain it was not theirs to sell as actually the goods were on sale or return. May as well have been talking to a brick wall. Good luck here whether your retention of title toilet paper is worth anything at all.
Why didn't you sue them for the value? Being soft is foolhardy.

At one time I had a reputation for enforcing ROT. So much so that I once got a call from an auction house tipping me off about some of my product that had been put up for sale.
 
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I hope you were joking about loading up the cart - you will get arrested for that.
Not if you do it the right way! You carry a letter from your solicitor explaining the legality of picking up stock which belongs to you and just turn up at the shop and show it to the manager. If you expect difficulties you should inform the local police station of your intentions and they will park a police car outside but not intervene.

Bit difficult with 600 Maplin shops.
 
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At Atmosbob it was more indepth than what I said and was defended in part by Data Protection so knowing who to sue is part of the issue. Sure you could do some mystery shopping etc but it was not my business and whilst my advice was there the authority did not lie wiht me.

Actually you cannot go and do it with a solicitors letter mate; that is essentially bog roll. You need a court order for that. The police would not even turn up - they would say it is a corporate matter.
 
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Actually you cannot go and do it with a solicitors letter mate; that is essentially bog roll. You need a court order for that. The police would not even turn up - they would say it is a corporate matter.
Thanks for telling me I cannot do something which I have done. You are right that in my case the police did not turn up but I know of two occasions when the police have stood and watched when friends re-possessed goods.
 
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Thanks for telling me I cannot do something which I have done. You are right that in my case the police did not turn up but I know of two occasions when the police have stood and watched when friends re-possessed goods.

Or at least something you got away with.

Whether someone else could get away with it.... ?
 
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Yeah that is what I was thinking. Not sure whether this was intimidating or otherwise - do not know the full circumstances - so I cannot comment.

The judges and the sheriffs are the people with the real authority here, if the customer does not stand in your way - then you can take them, but if they say no you will need to deal with the administrator/liquidator not a damn thing you can do.

If you tried to take matters in your own hands then the police would arrest you.

Like Mr D said, you got lucky....
 
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Or at least something you got away with.

Whether someone else could get away with it.... ?
I don't get it. Why would it be getting away with it to re-claim my own property?

If you forgot your jacket, with your wallet inside, in a restaurant would you not think you could go and reclaim your own property? What would you do if they refused to hand it over? The Receivers or Administrators are nothing more than crooks if they do not allow you to take back your property. I sure as hell do not need a judge or a court to tell me that.
 
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They should not but it is circumstantial as I said before - but the police generally have no involvement in this because they have no power unless......

For example, if you try to force your way into the premises for to get your goods back and the owner of the premises call the police - then they will arrest you or escort you off the premises at a minimum. That is breach of the peace or whatever, I do not know for sure as I am not a police officer.

But for recovery of goods from a premises with a piece of solicitors paper giving them no right to enter the premises and recover goods, then it is a commercial matter and as such falls under the jurisdiction of the judge.

If they let you in and take the goods, then you got lucky but they have no legal obligation to do so, even if, you have a retention of title clause on the goods. The only way in which you can legally do this is by having the judges blessing i.e. a warrant, or have it through the high court to collect with sheriffs which essentially comes from the judge anyway.

I am not a solicitor but this is common sense/knowledge or do I get involved in this stuff too much???
 
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If they let you in and take the goods, then you got lucky but they have no legal obligation to do so, even if, you have a retention of title clause on the goods.
Its the other way around. They have no legal right to hold the goods.
 
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Its the other way around. They have no legal right to hold the goods.

Posession is a rather large percentage of this game - as I said previously and others have agreed with, administrators will contest any terms of business and proof of the debt in an effort to secure the goods to be sold off for the benefit of the creditors: You have to persist, and keep at them to persuade them: Its not just the law regarding trading terms at play here - the law of insolvency is also at work, and the administrators use these as hard as they can.
 
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Its not a fair system Atmosbob, I agree but it is the commercial system 0 as Socia South West said.

It is entirely up to you fella, I appreciate your situation and its exceptionally crappy and the people who suffer are the employees (to a lesser degree) and the suppliers i.e. you.

You are of course welcome to ignore what I have said and I hope you get your goods back. Dependent on your ROI clause, they may have no legal right to hold the goods but - and this is your problem, you have no right to enter their premises and take the goods either.

This is where the warrant is required from the judge (not the solicitors letter). However people without knowledge may step aside with a solicitors letter, others who dowill not.

I sincerely hope that they willingly hand over your goods in the meantime.
 
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It might be an idea to look at all the other companies you currently lend money to. See if you need to reduce / end the credit facility.

Was there no indication for you that Maplins was in trouble any time in the past year or so?

It was in the press. It was even discussed here.
 
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I think the OP needs to 'weigh up' how much they're going to lose, * if * they receive no payment at all... forget about the "warning signs" in the past, that's been and gone now

Is your whole business relying on Maplin? or do you have other avenues and markets?

Equally what were the terms of the agreement, is it sale or return, etc?
 
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It was in the press. It was even discussed here.

Yes hence was the OP aware of the problem. I know some on here were.
May have been unaware and continued to lend money, may have been aware but decided risk was small so continued to lend money.
 
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"Can I just go in and get my stuff back?" This is a fascinating question and magnificently complex! Everything (IMO) depends on the behaviour of those taking part and the wording and other aspects of a 'retention of title' clause.

Breach of the Peace? Well, possibly in Scotland, where the definition is somewhat different, in that a reasonable person could be expected to become "alarmed, annoyed or disturbed" by such acts as "rowdiness, brawling" or "lewd" or otherwise "threatening behaviour" - but that hardly seems to be the case here. Nudity in public under Scottish law is indeed a breach of the peace (see the prosecutions of the so-called Naked Rambler) so if you are reclaiming goods from the Inverness branch of Maplins, put your pants on! Don't go there naked!

But in England, a breach of the peace is more open-ended and therefore more complex. Failing some sort of shouting match or other outlandish behaviour, almost certainly not.

Trespass? Well, assuming that our protagonist has simply walked into the shop through an open door, into what we all treat (and indeed is) a public place - no. An act of trespass has not taken place.

Theft? Well, the (short) definition is "Theft occurs when someone dishonestly appropriates some property that does not belong to him or her and treats it as his or her own and has no intention of returning the property to its rightful owner." Assuming our protagonist is indeed the rightful owner of the goods, he is hardly guilty of theft. The burning question is, is our protagonist (or rather his company) really the rightful owner? You may THINK you are the rightful owner because the shop hasn't paid you for months, but the reality may be different.

Let us take a simple scenario - you deliver 100 LED panel lights to a Maplins central depot every week. They are all identical. They have no serial numbers or other identifying marks. Yes, you have a contract that clearly gives your company retention of ownership for all goods that have not been paid for and the lights are all clearly marked as coming from your company.

BUT unless your retention of ownership clause clearly and unequivocally gives you full and unmitigated ownership of all goods delivered until all debts are cleared, you cannot prove that the specific panel lights you are seeking to remove have not been paid for.

A debtor who has paid for some of your goods but not others, may claim that the specific goods you are trying to take back have been paid for, so he now owns those. Unless you can prove him wrong, you can’t take those goods and walking out with them would indeed be theft.

But an ‘all monies’ provision in your retention of title clause means you retain ownership of all your goods until all monies owed to you by the debtor have been paid. In that case, as long as the debtor owes you some money, you can take back the goods, whether or not those particular goods have been paid for.

(The problem is, to get a major customer to sign an agreement like that!)

If you use force, that is a possible case of assault - so don't! If the lights are now built into the ceiling, you can't start ripping the ceiling down (or otherwise damaging goods in which your components have been incorporated). That is criminal damage, so don't.

And if the shop staff prevent you from lawfully removing goods that are clearly yours, the police will not help you and you can't expect a police constable to assess the validity and voracity of various documents and come to a decision on a matter of civil contract law. That is not his job and he will tell you that you need a court order.

So, for those of you playing the Home Game - a retention of ownership clause needs to be very, very clear about what is and is not your property. It is best to have an 'all monies' clause. It also has to give you the right to enter buildings and remove goods. And most importantly, it has to be counter-signed by the customer, either with each order, or as part of an overall agreement. Better still - both!

If a company does a Maplins and looks as if it might go belly-up, hand-in its dinner plate and turn its face to the wall, act quickly.
 
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Should all the Cariilion shareholders have paid their debts? Actually, now I think about it, morally yes. But not legally.
 
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Should all the Cariilion shareholders have paid their debts? Actually, now I think about it, morally yes. But not legally.

Could ask Phillip Green. He was asked to pay towards a pensions shortfall - were any of the pension fund trustees asked to pay as well?
 
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I think the normal way is for investment funds to borrow the money to buy the company from the original owner and then have the debt transferred to the new company to pay back at very high rates, and retention of property & stock etc held by the investment fund so if it goes tits up they get most of their money back either by very high monthly loan repayments over the time it owns the company of selling off whats left, that the IP cannot touch
 
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I think the normal way is for investment funds to borrow the money to buy the company from the original owner and then have the debt transferred to the new company to pay back at very high rates, and retention of property & stock etc held by the investment fund so if it goes tits up they get most of their money back either by very high monthly loan repayments over the time it owns the company of selling off whats left, that the IP cannot touch

Yes, sounds pretty normal.
As I recall Boots had a similar thing - big loan to buy it, loan interest is a business expense.
So within normal accounting and legal procedures.

Bit like how we suggest some people buy a business when looking to buy a shop or production facility, getting the company to partially at least fund the purchase.
 
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